An evangelical writes on Bush and Skull and Bones

by **starroute** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:45 pm

My husband suggested I read this piece by an evangelical Christian which appeared at Counterpunch over the weekend. It's an interesting take on the situation by someone whose disillusionment with Bush in the political sphere led him to consider the metaphysical dimension as well -- and whose religious background means he's not prepared to dismiss the Skull & Bones initiation as merely college pranks: <a href="http://www.counterpunch.com/alper11262005.html">www.counterpunch.com/alper11262005.html</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>The society has a story it claims gives historical and even religious credibility and sanction to these rites. The society's adopted myth states that the Roman goddess Eulogia ascended into heaven in 322 BC. The society's lore refers to the 'First Miracle of the origin of our Goddess' (Robbins, p.84) and to her "second coming" toYale in 1832 to found the society. "Eulogia! Eulogia! Eulogia!" the "Bonesmen" shriek as the initiate is escorted into the inner temple before he is compelled to sign his name to an oath of secrecy. After this the initiate is brought before a picture of Judas Iscariot, whose name the group screams three times, and then he is led to the heart of the rite: the initiate is pushed to his knees before a human skull filled with blood placed at the foot of a human skeleton called Madame Pompadour. The crowd "implores him to 'Drink it! Drink it! Drink it!'" and he does. Then he is hurried to a man dressed as the Pope. "But not before the D whips him in the face with his tail. The initiate bends to kiss the Pope's slippered toe on the skull." (Robbins, p.120.) This is the core of the very un-Christian and blasphemous rite that enfolded so many members of the Bush clan into the secret society, mirroring similar rites from earlier blasphemous societies and indeed even some devil-worshipping sects. . . . I was shocked to discover that the Goddess Eulogia is a fabrication. And not a simple fabrication but one that leads us to something very specific. There never was a Roman goddess by that name. However, students of New Testament Greek know that eulogia is one of the names given to the sacrament as in St. Paul's first letter to the Corinthians: "The cup of blessing ('eulogia') which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ?" Alarming to me and perhaps it will be to you, rather than honoring the sacrament, we see that the secret society initiation culminates in a parody of partaking of the blood of Christ. This parody is known in other contexts as the sinful Black Mass. We know Black Mass is not truly parody but blasphemy and sacrilege. Invoking Judas, dishonoring the Pope and violating the sacrament is terrible sacrilege. I believe I am neither exaggerating nor distorting to suggest that whatever young George's confusion as to his being father's heir, the initiation provided them with a shared secret. That secret is that both partook of the devil's sacrament, in which the chalice is a human skull, and did so within a secret order explicitly committed to the accumulation of wealth and power, as the Robbins book makes clear. . . . A detail about the founding of Skull and Bones might help us understand the devil's place in this ritual. As it turns out, shortly before founding the secret society, William H. Russell had spent a year in Germany. "When William Russell took some time off from Yale to study in Germany, he could very well have been introduced to a German student club with the death's head logo, and then returned to Yale and set up a branch of that club." (Robbins, p.82.) As it happens Russell's time in Germany coincided with the completion of Goethe's play "Faust"--the essential text that examines what it means to sell one's soul to the Devil. Goethe died within weeks of completing this play, and all of Germany was alive with the celebration of the great man's work in 1832. The first section of "Faust" had been released and had played in German theaters for years. It would be unlikely that Russell was unfamiliar with Goethe's most famous work, which mirrors somewhat the Skull and Bones ritual, most specifically the secret signing he oath and the use of blood to seal the rite . . . Faust sold his soul to the devil for power in this temporal world. Let us now be witness to the issue of the desire for power at all costs, and the desire for money that makes for power outside God's world, as it played its (Faustian?) hand through the men in the Bush family line who have been initiated into this rite. I could not help but note the glaring reality that President Bush, his father George and his grandfather Prescott span three generations of profiting from war and trading with the enemy. . . .<hr></blockquote>

by **marykmusic** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 1:17 pm

Four. Four generations, at least: <a href="http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Samuel_Prescott_Bush" target="top">"Sam was to Remington Arms..."</a> --MaryK

by **Qutb** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 1:44 pm

Thanks, starroute, that was interesting.

by **dbeach** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 3:36 pm

Alexandra Robbins was one of the first woman S & B and her book is interesting BUT in no way damning ..again making it look more like a bunch of college boys BUT its a secret society and Yale has banned it for yrs BUT allows it ALSO anybody who has a past history of membership in any subversive organizations or secret societys is disqualified from federal employment. HELLO!! LODGE 322 Rule by Yale since 1980..{clinton was not S.& B.} I find it deeply troubling that this one college has locked down the presidency. cheny also attended yale as did mrs.clinton HELLO ! "The ancestral pattern is clear: Trading with the enemy and profiting from war. The Skull and Bones initiation, to the degree it sets young men on a path of ruthless worldly seeking and flaunting of Christian values, was successful. Prescott Bush's legacy, it heart-renderingly appears, is alive and well and living in the White House--and if we are silent we are all implicated. Prayer is the order of the day, for President Bush is before anything else a child of God. "And the Devil, taking him up into a high mountain, showed him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the Devil said unto him, 'All this power I give you and the glory of them; for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will give to if thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.'" -- The Gospel According to Luke "

by **proldic** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 3:38 pm

The Order of Skull & Bones is the Wizard of Oz! Presidents are just assassinated! There is no conspiracy! It’s just necessary for us barbarians "to be able to make sense of the world!" Whitewash, Smokescreen, Disinformation and Modified Limited Hang-out Recent Yale graduate, Alexandra Robbins’s new book, Secrets of the Tomb – Skull and Bones, The Ivy League, And The Hidden Paths of Power portends to be an exposé, but in reality is a response by Bones to its critics, an apologia and… more skullduggery. Ms. Robbins, claims to be a member of one of Yale’s seven senior secret societies (she never reveals which one) writes: "The rumors and conspiracy theories about Skull and Bones,… are widespread and deep-rooted.… the most fascinating thing I learned through my interviews with members of Skull and Bones is that the majority of rumors were carefully planted by the Bonesmen themselves." And, "Skull & Bones is at its core, equivalent to the Wizard of Oz, the puny but cunning man hidden behind a curtain of mystique, projecting images that inspire awe and terror in order to expand himself into something great and terrible." And, "If the Wizard of Oz can represent Skull and Bones, then one must point out that, for a while, Oz needed its Wizard to provide balance and a constant current of reassurance." [emphasis in original] According to Ms. Robbins, The Order of Skull & Bones is all just a façade and the conspiracy theories are created out of a psychological need of us "barbarians." It’s just a "frat" house that taps into the power of the Ivy League old boy network. Just a bonding "thing," Skull and Bones isn’t "cultlike" but its critics are. "The Bonesmen cannot see the outside world without first looking through the Bones-constructed prism; at the same time, the outside world cannot see into Bones headquarters—instead, barbarians can only project their own imagery onto the, blank, brown walls of the tomb. Which they do. Often. At great length. The attention paid to Skull and Bones is cultlike, and it has grown exponentially in recent years because of the Bush dynasty and the expansion of the Internet, which has provided a most convenient medium through which to discuss and expound on conspiratorial ties. Skull and Bones is not a legend just to those who live it. To barbarians also, it is more than merely an institution; it is a concept onto which people project the images necessary for them to be able to make sense of the world. However sinister the notion of an all-powerful secret society might be, the existence of a Skull and Bones also brings us some measure of relief. The secret soci-ety allows us to believe that things don’t just happen: genocide isn’t just caused by one crazy individual, presidents aren’t just assassinated, family political dynasties aren’t just born. Even chaos, the society’s con-spiracy theories tell us, has causality. The secret society—like the power of the elitist, old-school colleges, the small groups of mogul networks, and the political dynasties—survives because people like to believe that seemingly random events are orchestrated by someone or something in control. "We’ve all done a good job of keeping the quintessential mystery alive," one patriarch said to me, "because people don’t believe this is all we do." Perhaps one of the reasons people are so fascinated with con-spiracy theories, particularly the far-reaching networks associated with secret societies and old-school power, is that they need causality in much the same way as they need a God. People’s need for the Skull and Bones conspiracies to elucidate an underlying order is similar to the need for religion to explain death and purpose. Underground control suggests order and order implies reason. Explanations, however implausible, are somehow reassuring." The psychological underpinnings, the rhetoric and the techniques used to "massage" the message in this book I find very interesting. Also, her use of the term barbarians to refer to non-members and her use of Bone’s terms of deference to older members, I also find interesting. Ms. Robbins takes a swipe at the "sinister" views of Bones with an exaggerated and shunted version of many of the allegations about Bones in an introduction titled The Legends of Skull and Bones. By mixing reality with known myth Ms. Robbins clumsily tosses aside many historical tragedies brought about by the elite deviance of Bones and its cohorts. She then proceeds to tell us "What follows, then is the truth about Skull and Bones." But by simply not addressing many of the allegations against Bones that she brings up in her "legends" she lays down more smoke and mirrors on the whole subject of what is real and what is fiction, even ending her book with more of the same: "Whether the legend of Skull and Bones reflects a sinister veracity or a prismatic distortion depends almost entirely on one’s desired perception. The great conspiracy surrounding the society is one of half-truths and our own willing complicity. And its secret, great and terrible, is that Skull and Bones, unreal, has mastered both" This book is not an expose it is a paean to The Order of Skull & Bones. Secrets of the Tomb is designed to deflect mounting exposure and criticism of The Order’s secrecy and its malignant effect upon our body politic and our republic. Ms. Robbins has insights into the culture of Yale and access to Bones members. She supplies us with some gossip, some new info, a map of the inside of the tomb, and plenty of Bone’s unsourced shallow retorts. I will offer a small disassembly of one piece of Ms. Robbins disinformation, for now… Her dismissal of the history of Skull & Bones financial dealings with the Nazis consisted of one sentence. "Nor was it Skull and Bones that specifically instructed members to aid Adolf Hitler, though Hitler’s financier stowed $3 million in the Union Banking Corporation, a bank that counted among its seven directors Prescott Bush." Ms. Robbins gives us no documentation of her assertion that all that happened was that Fritz Thyssen "stowed" just "$3 million" in a bank that "counted among its seven directors Prescott Bush." Poor Pres, just been stuck with a bad rap, them mean Nazis did it behind his back. What a crock! If one checks the historical record one finds that the Union Banking Co. was established in 1924 to formalize an agreement between Bonesman Averell Harriman and Fritz Thyssen, German industrialist and author of I Paid Hitler. Union Bank was more than just some place to stow money but was anactive participant in the rearming of Germany and the financing of Naziism. Union Banking Corporation was eventually seized by the US Alien Property Custodian in October on 1942 under the Trading with the Enemy Act. And there were many more Bonesmen involved than just Prescott Bush. And much more involvement in the financial affairs of Germany and the Nazis. In 1933 there were eight directors of Union Bank. Four were members of Skull & Bones, classmates Roland Harriman, Knight Woolley, Ellery Sedgewick James and Prescott Bush. In 1942 the bank had (Ms. Robbins is correct) only seven directors but there were three Bones directors and shareholders, Roland, Prescott and Ray Morris. And their shares were declared as being "held for the benefit of… members of the Thyssen family, [and] is property of nationals… of a designated enemy country…" There is much more historical evidence about The Order’s and the Bush’s involvement in the financing of Germany and of Hitler. There is George Herbert Walker’s and Prescott Bush’s major involvment with the Harriman Fifteen Corporation and the American Ship and Commerce Corporation which both helped in the rearmament of Germany and the rise of Naziism. Ms. Robbins also side-stepped the very real relationship between The Order, eugenics and Hitler. But that is par for the course for this book. Not that I do not recommend it. For as I have learned much can be gathered from disinformation, first there are the "bonifides" that must be supplied and then there is what is not said and where they wish you to go, which always provides illumination. <a href="http://p216.ezboard.com/frigorousintuitionfrm18.showMessage?topicID=9.topic">p216.ezboard.com/frigorou...ID=9.topic</a>

by **dbeach** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 3:59 pm

one lil lodge 322 corrupted the USA in less than 200 yrs and Yale zoo is complicit <a href="http://www.bilderberg.org/skulbone.htm">www.bilderberg.org/skulbone.htm</a> "The Skull and Bones - Yale University The occult Bush family 'dossier' Hidden secrets of Tony Blair's MSWord 'dodgey dossier' revealed When Saddam Hussein talked of 'the devil Bush' he may not have been so far from the truth. U.S. president George W. Bush, his father and grandfather are proven initiates of this multi-generational occult lodge. George W. was tapped (initiated) in 1968 at the group's Yale University HQ, a mausoleum known as 'the tomb'. When undergraduates broke in they found that the 'holy of holies' inner sanctum has red velvet walls and carpet, with a large pentagram emblazoned on the wall. [see Kris Millegan and Anthony Sutton sites] Any serious researcher on this subject must get a copy of Kris Millegan(ed.)'s new book - Fleshing Out Skull and Bones. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- John Kerry (D) and George W. Bush (R) were both members of Skull and Bones, America's most powerful secret society Watch the CBS TV documentary on the bonesmen - CBS site Adolf Hitler was obsessed with the occult, in his case the Thule Society, closely inter-connected with German Theosophists. The jolly roger, skull and cross bones, "der Totenkopf" was an emblem worn by Hitler's SS soldiers and was emblazoned on SS armoured cars and tanks (see images on this page). The SS was a religious cult of sworn Hitler/German ancestor worship. If the Nazis' occult lodges had been exposed then shut down, not treated as a taboo, millions of lives could have been saved. A small price to pay for insane racism and the blood of millions of people. The second world war need never have happened. Unless you want the occult fuelling a totalitarian West's Third World War 'on terror' and their 'New World Order' - please - do your bit to expose George W. Bush, the bonesmen and other interconnected lodges round the world. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Prescot Bush and Rockefeller's Standard Oil had been in business with the Hitler regime and the Nazis since 1933, and in 1942, three Bush businesses were seized by the U.S. government, for violation of the Trading With the Enemies Act. IT ALL BEGINS AT YALE: SKULL & BONES In 1823, Samuel Russell, a child of the Wall Street banking establishment, founded “Russell & Company” the largest opium smuggling operation in the world. Russell and Company was based in Connecticut, and in addition to Chinese tea and silk, specialized in acquiring opium in Turkey and smuggling it to China (16). In 1830, Russell and Company bought out their primary competitor, the Perkins (Boston) syndicate and thus established Connecticut as the epi-center of the illegal opium trade. Because of the incredible wealth generated, and through his connections to Wall Street, Russell’s company (and thus Connecticut) became an epicenter of illegal and secret political power (16). The grandfather of President Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Warren Delano, Jr., served as Chief of Operations, at Russell and Company, and later became a partner (16). In 1831, William Huntington Russell, half-brother to Samuel, left the United States and Yale college, to spend a year studying in Germany (17). Germany was in a fever, the epi-center of “new ideas” and a scientific revolution in psychology, philosophy, and educational reform. In the new Germany, children were being educated according to the “scientific method.” They were taught what to think and how to think it, as well as total obedience to the state. William Huntington Russell wanted to learn first hand, “The “Scientific Method” and the ideas and philosophy of Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel. Hegel held the Chair in Philosophy at the University of Berlin from 1817 until his death in 1831. In Germany, the scientific method, and the Hegelian dialectic were being applied to every aspect of human endeavor: through reason and the application of the scientific method, it was possible to create a pre-determined synthesis and thus the most desirable predetermined outcomes (1). Russell was particularly impressed with the concept of “thesis versus anti-thesis” and Hegel’s historical dialectic: the state is absolute, individuals are granted their freedoms based on their obedience to the state, controlled conflict, by an intellectual elite, can produce a pre-determined outcome. Russell, being a child of the Wall Street banking elite, quickly realized the implications. Hegel’s philosophy and the “Scientific Method” could be applied to banking: Through controlled conflict, it was possible to create a synthesis in the form of incredible financial wealth. Those engaged in this conflict would require financing. Controlled conflict, when conducted in secret, would be good for business. Indeed, secrecy is mandated when the dialectic is applied to the creation of “opposing forces” who are to be manipulated into engaging in a “controlled conflict.” Secrecy is also necessitated so that the opposing forces do not realize that the same banks are providing funds to both of those in conflict. Of course, William Huntington Russell was not the first to realize the necessity of secrecy for the purposes of applying Hegel’s dialectic to banking and commerce. Banking requires secrecy, particularly when it comes to laundering incredible sums of money acquired through criminal enterprise and the drug trade. Long before he arrived in Germany, Russell had learned the value of secrecy. What he wanted was to learn first hand was the Hegelian scientific method. So, it is not surprising that after he enrolled at the University of Berlin, Russell became a member of a secret society which also incorporated Hegelian ideas. Russell joined the secret order of “Skull and Bones” (17). The membership of the Berlin order of Skull and Bones came from the privileged class, the aristocracy, and the families of bankers and the moneyed elite. Russell fit fight in and formed a warm and close relationship with many of its members. When it came time for his to return to America and Yale college, Russell sought and obtained permission to form an American chapter of the secret German Society of Skull and Bones: chapter 322, The Brotherhood of Death (17,1<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/glasses.gif ALT="8)"> . Russell returned to the United States and Yale College in 1832. Russell, along with his very close friend, Alphonso Taft (the father of William Howard Taft who became President of the U.S. and then Chief Justice of the Supreme Court), and 13 other children of the Wall Street elite, established and became the founding members of “The Order of Scull and Bones,” later changed to “The Order of Skull and Bones.” The Order of Skull and Bones was to be a super secret society for the elite children of the Anglo-American Wall Street banking establishment (17,1<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/glasses.gif ALT="8)"> . Its purpose: To generate incredible wealth and power for its members. Presumably, the Order of Skull and Bones exists only at Yale. As detailed in Antony C. Sutton’s superbly researched 1986 text, America’s Secret Establishment (17): “Those on the inside know it as The Order. Others have known it for more than 150 years as Chapter 322 of a German secret society. More formally, for legal purposes, The Order was incorporated as The Russell Trust in 1856. It was also once known as the ‘Brotherhood of Death.’ Those who make light of it, or want to make fun of it, call it ‘Skull & Bones’, or just plain ‘Bones’.” The Order of Skull and Bones, however, is certainly not a college fraternity fun-house. Rather, the purpose of Skull and Bones is the application of skull duggery, piracy, and the scientific method to the creation of power, wealth, and the inducement of controlled conflict between opposing individuals, businesses, and states. "

by **starroute** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 5:34 pm

One is whether there was any direct link between the 19th century opium trade and the OSS (and later the CIA) getting involved with the drug trade during World War II. Here are some data points: John Kerry's grandfather, James Grant Forbes, was born in Shanghai in 1879, his family having taken up residence as a result of their involvement in the "China trade." After prohibition ended in the 1930's, the Mafia started hooking up with the Shanghai heroin cartel. The heroin that the OSS dealt during the war was refined in Shanghai. And at the same time, the OSS was making its own alliances with the Mafia. (All of this wound up leading to the CIA/Mafia/anti-Castro Cuban axis you find in the early 60's.) That's all very intriguing -- but what I don't know is whether there was any continuity, or if Americans lost interest in the heroin trade in the early 20th century and then picked up on it again in the 1930's and 1940's. The other question is about money-laundering. The CIA started getting into money-laundering in a big way with Castle Bank in the early 60's. This was just after Allen Dulles had been forced to resign as CIA director, but despite this I have a strong suspicion that Dulles's fingerprints were all over it. He had, after all, been up to his neck in Thyssen's money-laundering operations through Union Bank in the 1930's. So I'd really like to know how the CIA handled its ill-gotten gains before Castle Bank, and whether there was already CIA money-laundering going on in the 50's. I'm also curious about what degree of money-laundering may have been going on through international banks before the CIA got involved. Did it all start with the Dulles/Thyssen line or was everybody doing it? (I have the impression that the Mafia has been more likely to use restaurants and similar local operations to launder its own profits than to mess around with anything as upper-crust as overseas banking.) If anyone can throw light on either of these questions, I would be extremely appreciative.

by **ivanbo2003** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 5:57 pm

It is interesting how all of these secret societies and cults have rituals in which they are using clear words of anger and hate against the act of crucifixion and Christ's Holy Blood.In the same rituals they give praise to Judas Iscariot and celebrate satan/lucifer in their initiation in the brotherhood. From a former mason,a testimony of the 33rd degree initiation: <a href="http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/33rd_Initiation.htm">www.conspiracyarchive.com...iation.htm</a> Excerpt: " When my turn came I was ushered into the office and seated. The very first question I was asked was, "Of what religion are you?" Not long before this I would have answered with something like, "I believe the Ancient Mysteries, the 'Old Religion,' and I believe in reincarnation." However, without thinking at all about how to answer, I found myself saying, "I am a Christian." Then, to my sup rise and theirs, I asked them, "Are you men born again?" The man in charge quickly stopped me by saying, "We're not here to talk about that - we are here to ask you questions." After they sent me back out I sat down and thought about it. When the next man came out, I asked him, "Did they ask you if you are a Christian?" He said, "Yes, they did." "What did you tell them?" I asked, and he replied, "I told them 'Hell no, and I never intend to be!'" Then he said a strange thing to me, "They said I'm going higher," and he left through a different door, looking pleased. The second day was the day of the actual initiation, held in the theater-like meeting room. Those of us who were receiving the degree were seated and the ceremony was "exemplified" (acted out in full costume) before us, in the same way that we had performed the lesser degrees of the Scottish Rite all those years. The parts in the exemplification were played by men of the 33rd Degree. The representative candidate was dressed in black trousers, barefooted, bareheaded and draped in a long, black robe that reminded me of a very long, black raincoat. He had a black cable tow around his neck but was not hoodwinked. During the initiation he was led around the stage, conducted by two men with swords, as the degree was performed for us. Instructions and signs were given. Upon the altar were four "holy books" (the Bible, the Koran, the Book of the Law and the Hindu Scriptures). At one point the "candidate" was told to kiss the book "of your religion" and, representing us all, he leaned forward and did so. I remembered the First Degree initiation, when I was told to kiss the Bible, and at that moment something came full cycle. It was the final such kiss to be a part of my life. .......... After this we took our places at the table shaped like a cross and sat down. The setting was dark, our long, sweeping robes were solid black, our faces nearly concealed in the hoods, and the mood was one of heavy gloom. The Christ-less prayers and the hymns we sang fit right in. The one word that would describe the entire event would be "black." It was, indeed, a Black Communion - a strange Black Mass. .......... Standing again, I said, "This is indeed a sad day, for we have lost our Master. We may never see him again. He is dead! Mourn, weep and cry, for he is gone." Then I asked the officers to extinguish the candles in the large Menorah. One by one they rose, walked to the center of the room, extinguished a selected candle and left the room. Finally, with only the center candle still burning, I arose, walked sadly to the Menorah and extinguished the last candle - the candle representing the life of Jesus, our "Most Wise and Perfect Master." We had dramatized and commemorated the snuffing out of the life of Jesus, without once mentioning his name, and the scene ended with the room in deep silent darkness. I walked out of the room, leaving only the darkness and the stillness of death. Once again, the single word best to describe it would be "black." All through the service I was shaking and sick. I have never felt so sad. I had stumbled over the words but, somehow, I made it to the completion of the ceremony and went back to the dressing room. I still didn't know much about praying but felt that I had been sustained by the Lord through it all. .......... I was choking on the awful reality of what we had said and done, the way we had blasphemed the Lord, and the evil, black mockery we had made of His pure and selfless death. With weeping welling up within me. I could only shake my head in silence and walk out. " Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=ivanbo2003>ivanbo2003</A> at: 11/28/05 2:59 pm

by **Gouda** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 7:46 pm

from proldic's quoted Robbins: <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Perhaps one of the reasons people are so fascinated with con-spiracy theories, particularly the far-reaching networks associated with secret societies and old-school power, is that they need causality in much the same way as they need a God. People’s need for the Skull and Bones conspiracies to elucidate an underlying order is similar to the need for religion to explain death and purpose. Underground control suggests order and order implies reason. Explanations, however implausible, are somehow reassuring."<hr></blockquote> She is wrong on one level (control is not always about "reason", and these things certainly are not "reassuring"), but she may be right in another way. Looking at the notion that conspiracy theorists are actually the cult - not the actual cult they are examining - I think there is a dangerous truth in that, when taken in the sense that uncareful, misguided researchers into conspiracies, cults, secrecy, & parapolitics are in danger of creating, or feeding, the development of this new, modern God/control system. It becomes a symbiotic relationship between the cult and the cult hunters (which elite cults understand, and most conspiracy theorists do not understand). CT's build up and flesh out this nasty underworld religion, with careful assistance from actual conspirators, and the elites simply move in and assume that role, whether they already have this position or not (I think they do) - the important thing is that it needs to be seen that way on an increasingly larger scale. This may be part of the reason for the strategic leaks, the tantalizing "glimpses" behind the curtain, the bleed-throughs, the public mocking, the insider tours. My sense is that certain conspiracy theorists may be unwittingly assisting in establishing the new religion. This is exactly why the need is so great for very careful, mature, wise research into these matters. This ain't a hobby or a game, and it is easy to get spun. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=gouda@rigorousintuition>Gouda</A> at: 11/28/05 5:16 pm

by **Qutb** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:46 pm

Very good points, Gouda.

by **banned** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 10:21 pm

...to catch on to it being blasphemous. Fundamentalism is a cult too--in which a bloodthirsty sky God demands his son be nailed to a cross. A pox on all of them.

by **ivanbo2003** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:57 am

fuctard? blasphemous? manners? PS This is discussion board,ppl with free will posting comments,all sorts of ppl("sorts" is such a fine word isn't it?)

by **slimmouse** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:04 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Fundamentalism is a cult too--in which a bloodthirsty sky God demands his son be nailed to a cross.<hr></blockquote> I find that a particularly strange comment. Jesus' problem wasnt the demands of his 'Father' placed upon society as I see the story. More that this will be a natural consequence of trying to suggest to people how they might live and coexist better, in a world gone mad. Once they attract any kind of a large fan base that is. Jesus wasnt the first, and He certainly wasnt (nor were any similar to him ) the last.

by **AnnaLivia** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 3:07 pm

printed this off and will give a copy to mrs. neighbor, amongst others. maybe they'll listen to one of their own. (maybe not.)

by **banned** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:19 pm

...a religion that claims to exalt a 'loving father' but that father requires his son to have the living daylights beaten out of him then have him nailed to a cross is a bit puzzling. If you're so 'inside' Christianity you don't realize that, I guess you'll have to take my word for it. Jesus says something about who among you if your child asked for bread would give him a stone, yet plenty of peoples' kids have been 'given a stone', as Ivan Karamazov most famously pointed out in his long rant to Alyosha. Sorry if it offends the true believers to hear it, but to us nonbelievers, it looks pretty bizarre. I always wanted to see a National Enquirer headline scream: MAN IN DRESS EATS BODY OF HIS SAVIOR! ...next to a photo of the Pope taking communion. One person's religion is another person's "Boy are those people weird."

An evangelical writes on Bush and Skull and Bones

An evangelical writes on Bush and Skull and Bones

Re: An evangelical writes on Bush and Skull and Bones

Re: An evangelical writes on Bush and Skull and Bones

Re: An evangelical writes on Bush and Skull and Bones

Millegan On Robbins

The Order of S & B.. is certainly not college frat fun

A couple of connections I wonder about

33rd degree

Re: 33rd degree

Re: 33rd degree

Took the fucktard fundies long enough....

...

Re: Took the fucktard fundies long enough....

Re: Thanks, starroute!

From the point of view of a non-Christian...

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