Famous Shriners...some disheartening

by **Connut** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 12:05 pm

But if you lie down with dogs, you're gonna get fleas ...

by **robertdreed** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 12:07 pm

just try avoiding dogs, in today's world. ( To continue with your metaphor, nothing against the critters literally... )

by **robertdreed** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:42 pm

I think that those of us on the outside of organizations like the Masons who are suspicious of some of the ways the organization can be exploited should realize that it's good to have friends making common cause with us on the inside. There are things that only they can find out, and only they can accomplish. Joining in order to infiltrate is risky and probably unwise. But having Masons on the inside paying attention to our concerns is beneficial, I think. Keep in mind, they're unlikely to tell us exactly how they might be helping. Similarly, I'd personally tend be suspicious of anyone volunteering the details of any role they might be playing in that regard, especially if it were someone who wasn't a close friend. Despite that circumspect relationship, people inside of powerful institutions who share our concerns can potentially play a decisive role in uprooting the corruption.

by **FourthBase** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:49 pm

Excellent point.

by **slimmouse** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:02 pm

RDR summed it up. We seem to understand here, that what were talking about is kicking the asses of a small minority ( the usual suspects ) of people at the top of every compartmentalised pyramid . The world is full of such pyramid structures - who thru control of the media ( as with everything else that counts ) are calling the shots, and who's special minions in their networks within networks, hold positions of influence, but ARENT bad folks. Do these minions really want the world like this ? I strongly suspect not. The challenge is getting the message to these guys. ESPECIALLY these guys. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"> The important thing is not to be worried about voicing concerns to such folks. After all, if most of these people REALLY knew the score, whats your best guess theyd want any part of it ? Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=slimmouse@rigorousintuition>slimmouse</A> at: 12/6/05 8:05 pm

by **Project Willow** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:11 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>The challenge is getting the message to these guys.<hr></blockquote> I don't mean to pick on you slimmouse, but to raise the issue of institutional control. Is it really possible, given the nature of masonic societies for a "good" one to effectively act against corruption? There is the oath for one thing. I don't believe many people join to do good deeds. How is it good to place oneself above others, to consider oneself special and worthy of extraordinary status? As has been pointed out, people join to get connected, and to further their careers. They join because they see the powerful benefitting from their inside connections and they want their own "special pass". They join because they feel a profound sense of disconnection from the lack of community, visibility, and value in society at large. The philanthrophy is window dressing. FWIW, I knew a Shriner who attended ceremonies at the largest masonic temple in the US. He was a satanist, a pedophile, and a child trafficker, among other nefarious things. He was not a member of the elite. Outside of his Shriner status, he was a "average Joe".

by **smiths** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:23 am

not quite sure why hanshan put the dreamscape pic up on this thread, is it a MK freemason connection, anyway it really triggered some nostalgia for me, i went to the first dreamscape in nov/dec 1991, took 2 E's and some acid and kicked myself loose of this earth, remember telling my mate that i was ready to die happy, for a year or so through 1991 i was going to illegal warehouse parties, raves and feeling like a member of a secret soceity, whole secret culture, and it felt exciting, a big part of the allure of any secret organisation, strength in numbers for weak-minded individuals

by **FourthBase** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 6:29 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>FWIW, I knew a Shriner who attended ceremonies at the largest masonic temple in the US. He was a satanist, a pedophile, and a child trafficker, among other nefarious things. He was not a member of the elite. Outside of his Shriner status, he was a "average Joe".<hr></blockquote> Whoa, really? I had only heard about legal debauchery. Is it possible for you to tell us more?

by **antiaristo** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:27 am

Robert, You've written much with which I would disagree (as you know). But I'd like to focus on the "good" Masons. What happens when a decent person joins up and realises he has made a BIG mistake? There is no way out of those blood-oaths, you know. The whole system would otherwise collapse. Why do so many Masons claim never to have read Morals and Dogma? Could it be down to maintaining "plausible deniability"? "Do what you are told, don't ask questions and keep your mouth shut and you'll live" are the operative rules. What can ANY man do in such a situation, when he recognizes that he is damned?

by **slimmouse** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:10 pm

Relevent section on secret society madmen just found amidst the comments on Jeffs latest post. You have got to be willing to do a lot of things furtively and secretly, to bring about a situation that will accomplish what you want to have accomplished. — Prescott Bush, speaking about the intelligence services in his oral history, done by Columbia University. Part of Ohio used to be Connecticut (Western Reserve). Land was sold to 'speculators and settlers to raise money for schools. Bones families were prominent in the company that bought the land. There was a migration of many NE families, such as the Bones co-founding family the Tafts, the Bushes, also a later Bones and other Yale secret societies family the Rockefellers. As a matter of fact a member of Skull & Bones "invented" gasoline, Dr. Benjamin Silliman, Jr. from Fleshing Out skull & Bones: The school of chemistry, which Professor Silliman founded at Yale in 1847, later developed into the Sheffield Scientific School (SSS) through which Bones was able to take-over Yale. Professor Silliman retired in 1853 to be succeeded by his son, Professor Benjamin Silliman, Jr., a member of a very active group of Bonesmen, the class of 1837. Junior, among other things, discovered in 1855 the process known as cracking, the distillation of paraffin, gasoline and other products from oil. As Professor Silliman, Jr. noted in his report: Gentlemen, it appears to me that your Company may have in their possession a raw material from which, by a simple and not expensive process, they may manufacture very valuable products. His findings spurred the first oil rush and brought America’s first oil company, The Pennsylvania Rock Oil Company of New York into the hands of New Haven investors, and made fortunes for Townsend and Bissell families, who soon had sons in the Order of Skull & Bones. The thread of the petroleum business continues through the history of Yale, the Tomb and the members of the Order of Skull & Bones. ... The cloister quadrangle that Miller began was abandoned and in 1912 was purchased by Yale. The building was finally completed in 1924 and was named Weir Hall. It was the home to the School of Architecture for many years. The building was finished using funds from Yale graduate Edward S. Harkness, the son of Stephen Harkness, a Cleveland harness-maker, who was an early investor with John D. Rockefeller and wound up as the second largest shareholder in Standard Oil. Harkness donated funds again, some sources say in 1924 others say is 1926, but nonetheless, Harkness bought the rest of the Miller property to the south of the Tomb and Yale commissioned Tracy & Swartwout to design the Old Art Gallery. The original design filled up the whole block from High to York Streets and there were designed perpendicular arms connecting to Weir Hall that would have completely enclosed the Tomb. This design was not built with just about half being built. This was just enough to seal off the south side of the Tomb and secret courtyard. ... a member of the Order was Treasurer of Yale from 1862 to 1978 except two gentlemen who served for 36 years of that 116 year stretch. The one serving longest, 32 years, hailed from a Bones family. (And was a member of the Order of Scroll & Key.) Interested to see the "inventor" of gasoline ( that which we cant exist without - <cough> ) in its various subdivisions there. But of course, such Secret societies ARENT really calling the shots are they proldic ? <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)">

by **Felix** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:44 pm

AMY GOODMAN: Senator McGovern, we just had an extended conversation about John Rendon, who in the latest issue of Rolling Stone magazine, “The Man Who Sold the War: Bush's General in the Propaganda War,” Rendon Group, key getting tens of millions of dollars from the U.S. government, military, Pentagon. He was your man in Maine for your presidential election? SEN. GEORGE McGOVERN: If he was, I have forgotten it. I have no knowledge of this man at all. ******************************** In service to the country ALL those years, under ALL those presidents, but "I have NO KNOWLEDGE of this man at all". I guess they traveled in different circles.

by **robertdreed** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:52 pm

"What can ANY man do in such a situation, when he recognizes that he is damned?" He isn't "damned." Terming it that way is buying into the Myth of Omnipotence. It sounds like someone trying to enforce discipline in the ranks. There's no need to presume the institution- any institution- has that much power. Such a person is merely risking a penalty of death- if the hype is to be believed, that is. Plenty of people in more perilous circumstances have continued to resist- even in dungeons. A member of a secret society who becomes disaffected enjoys the advantage that they aren't immediately discovered upon the moment of their disillusionment. That gives that some latitude on which to base their decisions. "Why do so many Masons claim never to have read Morals and Dogma? Could it be down to maintaining "plausible deniability"?" I think it has more to do with the fact that few people are serious readers. Especially of "tomes", a description that M&D fits. Especially a tome of dense metaphysical speculations, like M&D. Someone more well-versed in Masonic history than myself will have to explain to me the exact nature of the charter and relationship between the U.S.A's Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, which was chartered in Charleston, South Carolina some time in the first half of the 19th century- in the 1830s, I think it was- and the earlier Freemasonic Lodges of the U.S.A., the ones that George Washington and Ben Franklin belonged to, in the 18th Century. I'd also like to know the exact nature of the charter and relationship of each of those lodges with the Grand Lodge of England... The Charleston-based Lodge is the one for which Pike and MacKay drew up their own version of the rituals, some time between the founding of the Lodge and the outbreak of the Civil War. Apparently at some point Pike and Mackay had a falling out, and there was a power sturggle which was won by Pike. Incidentally, in the Civil War, MacKay favored the Union, while Albert Pike became a Confederate General, charged with sedition following the defeat of the South, until pardoned by President Andrew Johnson, one of the circumstances that eventually led to Johnson's being presented with articles of impeachment. ( And, despite later attempts to rewrite history by sychophants, Albert Pike was one of the original founders of the Ku Klux Klan... ) Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=robertdreed>robertdreed</A> at: 12/7/05 12:23 pm

by **antiaristo** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:58 pm

He isn't "damned." Terming it that way is buying into the Myth of Omnipotence. His God is now the GAOTU. He knows his Regalia will be piled atop his coffin when he is returned to the earth. There is no way out but death. It sounds like someone trying to enforce discipline in the ranks. Very much so. I watched a man broken on the wheel. There is no way out but death. There's no need to presume the institution- any institution- has that much power.  Umm. DC (tell it to JFK) Umm. Brussels (tell it to the Austrians) Umm. Baghdad (let's see if the Hashemites succeed) Such a person is merely risking a penalty of death- if the hype is to be believed, that is. Plenty of people in more perilous circumstances have continued to resist- even in dungeons. That's true, but such persons are exceptional, like those that can withstand torture. But the Masons are that barbaric that they will go after your next-of-kin. A member of a secret society who becomes disaffected enjoys the advantage that they aren't immediately discovered upon the moment of their disillusionment. That gives that some latitude on which to base their decisions. Not sure what you're getting at here. There is no way out but death. I hear what you say about the history. That's something I'd like to understand too. It's about the higher degrees. I think that even more interesting today is the relationship between the (Zionist) Scottish Rite and the (non-Zionist) Great Eastern

by **robertdreed** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 6:26 pm

"In service to the country ALL those years, under ALL those presidents, but "I have NO KNOWLEDGE of this man at all". I guess they traveled in different circles." That's an awful lot of sarcasm to burden one data point, Mr. D.A. George McGovern is 83 years old. The Presidential campaign in question was 33 years ago...yes, I said it, 33. Years ago. Mr. Rendon was obviously at the outset of his career in government at that point, and one could hardly have found a more unprepossessing beginning than being George McGovern's point man in Maine, in 1972. I for one am not surprised at George McGovern's failure to recall his advance man in the 1972 campaign. There were 50 of them, after all. It's most probable that their acquaintance was limited to at most a few brief meetings. It's possible that they never met face-to-face at all. All I can do is offer a comparative example: There were around 50 active DJs at the radio station where I was a student-volunteer 12 years ago, interacting and participating on an almost daily basis. I do not remember all of their names. I remember maybe half of their names, without referring to a list. Here's a brief outline of George S. McGovern's career in government- you can perhaps trace it to find where his and John Rendon's paths might have crossed again. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_McGovern">en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_McGovern</a> Three questions in return, Felix- how many people in the U.S.A. have histories of employment- including contract employment- with the U.S. government? I won't ask you to name them all, I have an easier question in mind- How about naming every company employing more than 50 people with a history of contracts with the U.S. Defense Department? If you can't do it- how many people on Capitol Hill do you think can do it? The real hypothesis being discussed here is whether or not every 33 degree Mason in the American Scottish Rite is an evil political manipulator consciously serving a covert goal held in common by all- the subjugation of the entire planet to Masonry as part of an all-powerful New World Order. I don't think the case has been made yet...let the inquest continue. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=robertdreed>robertdreed</A> at: 12/7/05 3:41 pm

by **Felix** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:58 pm

<a href="http://www.srmason-sj.org/web/journal-files/Issues/sep02/uzzel.htm">www.srmason-sj.org/web/jo.../uzzel.htm</a> Professor McGovern left the classroom in 1955 to become Executive Secretary of the South Dakota Democratic Party. He did much to revitalize his party in a largely Republican state. In 1956, he was elected to Congress, and in 1958, he was reelected. In 1960, he ran unsuccessfully for the U. S. Senate. However, he was soon appointed by newly elected President John F. Kennedy as the first Director of the Food for Peace Program and as a Special Assistant to the President. In these roles, he was able to oversee the donation of millions of tons of food to developing nations. He was then elected to the U. S. Senate in 1962 and was reelected in 1968 and 1974. He represented America's heartland with distinction by serving on the committees on agriculture, nutrition, forestry, and foreign relations as well as the Joint Economic Committee. In both houses of Congress, he spoke out forcefully against American involvement in the Vietnam War and on behalf of American farmers and the dispossessed. In 1972, he was the Democratic nominee for President, the only South Dakotan so honored by a major party.8 In 1976, President Gerald Ford, 33°, N.M.J., Grand Cross, S.J., appointed McGovern as a delegate to the General Assembly of the United Nations. Then in 1978, President Jimmy Carter named him as a delegate to the UN Special Session on Disarmament. After leaving the Senate in 1981, McGovern has been honored as a visiting professor at numerous institutions of higher learning. He served as President of the Middle East Policy Council from 1991 to 1998, when President Bill Clinton appointed him as Ambassador to the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization in Rome. In this position, he has done much to combat world hunger. On 9 August 2000, President Clinton awarded him the Presidential Medal of Freedom, America's highest civilian honor.9 He now serves as the UN's first Global Ambassador on World Hunger. Although he turned 80 on 19 July 2002, it appears that the word "retirement" is not part of his vocabulary. *************************************** O.K. '56 - elected to Congress '58 - same '60 - Kennedy appt. '62- U.S. Senate '68- same '74 - same "72 - pres. nomination '76 Ford sends him to UN '78 Carter (UN) '91-98 - Clinton (UN) And all this time he has "no knowledge" of one of the heaviest hitters in democratic circles. He didn't say "I don't remember working with him", he said "I have no knowledge of this man AT ALL". It sounded like a court room plea counsellor.

Famous Shriners...some disheartening

Not All Masons Are Bad

oh man...

food for thought

RDR

Re: Our cause for hope.

Re: Our cause for hope.

dreamscape

PW

RDR

From Jeffs blog via KM.

George McGovern/John Rendon

on blood oaths

Re: on blood oaths

for the defense...

McGovern

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