jfk secret society speech

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Re: Great Speech?

Postby 4911 » Sat Jun 17, 2006 8:47 pm

okay okay a secret group inside the swiss chocolate industry was behind the JFK assasination to cause armageddon you got me. <br><br>um, sounds like hes talkin about the soviets there. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=4911>4911</A> at: 6/17/06 6:58 pm<br></i>
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I guess he was whacked by the Soviets then.....

Postby slimmouse » Sat Jun 17, 2006 8:59 pm

<br> Ah.......He was talking about the Soviets LOL.<br><br> I guess it was they who whacked him ?<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :\ --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/ohwell.gif ALT=":\"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br> Too funny guys , too funny.<br> <br> Thanks JFK.<br><br> At least you identified to some of us who you were talking about.<br><br> Hell, who knows, maybe in another 100 years, others will understand exactly WHO youre talking about, as they sip their gruel, with tattoos on their arms, prior to their special shower. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: I guess he was whacked by the Soviets then.....

Postby NewKid » Sat Jun 17, 2006 11:20 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Come on, NewKid, of course it's about the Soviets.<br><br>Do you take me for some kind of retard? <hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Not me, FB. That comment wasn't directed at you. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: I guess he was whacked by the Soviets then.....

Postby sunny » Sat Jun 17, 2006 11:27 pm

If you read <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>JFK and Vietnam</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> by John Newman, you will find Kennedy talked a lot of shit about communism just to placate the rabid anti-communists. His rhetoric often didn't match his personal views. Taking these speeches in conjunction with the book, it is not hard to imagine him using communism as a euphism for what was going on in the CIA and other secret organizations. Knowing how he felt about CIA, it is almost a certainty. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: I guess he was whacked by the Soviets then.....

Postby NewKid » Sun Jun 18, 2006 12:09 am

I tend to agree that Kennedy was very isolated during his administration and pretty freaked out by the rabid right wing cold warriors. While JFK was pretty pissed about the Bay of Pigs, I don't really think Sorensen was trying to send any secret messages about the military industrial complex or international conspirators in this speech. Their hands were still shaking from the Bay of Pigs at the time of this speech and they're trying to keep the press at "bay" (ha ha). And nobody listening to that speech at the time is going to think anything other than he's referring to the Soviets. So if it were some great coded doublemeaning, I don't think anyone would have picked it up. <br><br>As we're all aware, there's been enormous scholarly debate about Kennedy and Vietnam and how much of a cold warrior Kennedy really was and whether he was going to withdraw, etc. I think by '63 Kennedy and McNamara were planning to withdraw, and I think JFK had pissed off the Pentagon and CIA people in so many different ways by that time, that deciding to get rid of him would have been a no-brainer for Lemnitzer, Landsdale, Dulles, Hoover etc. What's much more interesting is why not quietly kill him, or why not simply discredit him and force him to resign? Kennedy had done so much wacky shit in his private life, that they had him by the balls for blackmail. So why shoot him in broad daylight? <br><br>Now that's another thread entirely, and I think we can come up with many reasons to do it that way, a few of which have nothing really to do with Kennedy at all per se. But it's nonetheless a very interesting question. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: I guess he was whacked by the Soviets then.....

Postby sunny » Sun Jun 18, 2006 12:28 am

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>But it's nonetheless a very interesting question.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <br><br>Jim Marrs, I think, in one of his books, suggests quite convincingly that the perps were trying to make a brutal point- not only to future Presidents ( re Billy Hicks) but to anyone enterprising enough to discern the truth, ie "Beware! we are utterly ruthless and completely without normal human feelings; no one is safe, so watch what you say, watch what you do." They meant to make it obvious to anyone paying attention.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>And nobody listening to that speech at the time is going to think anything other than he's referring to the Soviets. So if it were some great coded doublemeaning, I don't think anyone would have picked it up.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <br><br>Quite so, but you have to remember Kennedy's level of enlightenment, his broad understanding of history, and his farsightedness. Now, this may cause some to snicker, but I am convinced beyond doubt Kennedy was a man for the ages, in the mold of Thomas Jefferson (warts and all) and not simply a 20th century American President. He was speaking, <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>at all times</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->, with an eye toward history; he was saying to future generations that he understood what was really going on <p></p><i></i>
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Well...

Postby FourthBase » Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:03 am

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>He was speaking, at all times, with an eye toward history; he was saying to future generations that he understood what was really going on<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <br><br>As NewKid pointed out, he didn't write his speeches. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: I guess he was whacked by the Soviets

Postby yesferatu » Sun Jun 18, 2006 1:41 pm

<< If you read JFK and Vietnam by John Newman, you will find Kennedy talked a lot of shit about communism just to placate the rabid anti-communists. His rhetoric often didn't match his personal views. Taking these speeches in conjunction with the book, it is not hard to imagine him using communism as a euphism for what was going on in the CIA and other secret organizations. Knowing how he felt about CIA, it is almost a certainty.>><br><br>I'm in agreement. His vagueness is too pronounced. (how's that for an oxymoron?) <br><br>That is my take on it, fwiw. <br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: I guess he was whacked by the Soviets then.....

Postby StarmanSkye » Mon Jun 19, 2006 3:15 am

I lean towards the interpretation that JFK was VERY cognizant of the real division of political and economic power in America, concentrated in the Military Industrial Complex and allied with International Banks, Wall Street, the CIA/NSA, organized crime, and the energy/resource/extractive industries. Certainly, he had to be keenly aware of the dangerous tightrope he was walking in bucking the war-profiteer interests of the Pentagon gang, by attempting to extricate America from involvement in a war in SE Asia that the MIC and politicos/technocrats et al were working behind the scenes to make a key part of America's foreign policy agenda. I believe this clique of powerful interests working in secrecy to undermine American ideals, esp. high regard for government transparency, rule of law, human rights and diplomacy, constituted the 'conspiracy Kennedy was speaking about in the speeches cited. Notably, I believe Kennedy was aware of and strongly opposed to the enormous abuses of authority, corruption and fraud by which democracy had been subverted in the years following WW II and the Korean War, with the US dragging its feet if not having second thoughts about its wartime promises of independence given to colonial territories, and budding democracies being undermined and brutal dictators set in-place to protect American economic interests -- as had occurred with disasterous consequences in Iran, Guatamala, and the Phillipines. IMO, if Kennedy meant to identify the intrigues of the Soviet Union in the Cold War as the subject of his speeches about secret infiltrations and subversions and covert warfare, he would have been explicit. As it was, I think he was being deliberately ambigious, allowing his critics and a mostly clueless public to assume he was talking about Communism, when he was REALLY talking about a secret, dangerous rightwing conspiracy that was taking-over America's democracy from within -- in order not to openly antagonize the MIC and alert them to what he was saying -- a 'message' that was only accessable to those relatively few members of society whose perceptions and awareness were similiar to JFK's.<br><br>Using documents made available thru Freedom of Information, contemporary researchers like Newman have been able to make a very compelling case that Kennedy was very much at-odds with the same MIC powerful interests Eisenhower spoke of at the close of his administration -- and who remain the most probable suspects in what was essentially a coup d'etat of JFK's assassination -- and also behind the killing of RBK and MLK.<br><br>JFK and Vietnam: Deception, Intrigue, and the Struggle for Power (Hardcover) <br>by John M. Newman <br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0446516783/002-9562079-0135207?v=glance&n=283155">www.amazon.com/gp/product...e&n=283155</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br>--quote--<br>Editorial Reviews<br>From Publishers Weekly<br>Had he lived, would President Kennedy have committed U.S. troops to Vietnam? According to the evidence marshalled here, the answer is a resounding no. Newman, who teaches international politics at the University of Maryland, argues that when JFK went to Dallas he already intended to withdraw U.S. advisers from Vietnam, but held off to ensure his reelection in 1964. The book traces the president's pullout plan back to April '62, when he stated that the U.S. should seize every opportunity to reduce its commitment to Vietnam. A month later Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara asked U.S. generals in Saigon how soon the South Vietnamese would be ready to take over the war effort. This well-documented study shows that JFK was for a time deceived by Gen. Maxwell Taylor, head of the joint chiefs, and others in a blizzard of briefings that claimed unadulterated progress and success. Newman maintains that although the president paid public lip service to a continued commitment to appease the right, his goal was to abandon a venture that he early recognized as a lost cause. No other study has revealed so clearly how the tragedy in Dallas affected the course of the war in Vietnam, since two days after the assassination Lyndon Johnson signed a National Security Action Memo that opened the way for the fateful escalation of the war. Photos. <br>Copyright 1992 Reed Business Information, Inc. <br><br>From Kirkus Reviews<br>Bold and authoritative revisionist analysis of Kennedy's Vietnam policy, by a US Army major who teaches history at the Univ. of Maryland. What was JFK's real agenda regarding Vietnam? Newman claims that the young President planned to withdraw American forces from that war-torn country--and his case is strong. The author pictures an isolated Kennedy battling both cold war jingoism and a military- industrial lobby avid for a war that would make tens of billions of dollars. Conventional wisdom generally sees JFK's early attacks on Eisenhower's covert liaison with France regarding Vietnam as simple political expediency, and Kennedy as another adherent to the domino theory. JFK's speeches buttress that position, but Newman, working with newly declassified material, argues that these speeches were simply requisite political twistings and turnings--and that Kennedy planned to get the US out of Vietnam despite a hawkish palace clique (led by Lyndon Johnson) that fed him disinformation on this most crucial foreign-policy issue. Document by document, incident by incident, the author reveals Kennedy as stranded within his own Administration, alienated by his desire to avoid this ultimate wrong-time, wrong-place war. Newman's research culminates in two crucial National Security Action Memos. In one, authored several weeks before Kennedy's death, the President formally endorsed withdrawal from Vietnam of a thousand advisors by the end of 1963 (to be followed by complete withdrawal by the end of 1965). In the second, written six days after the assassination, LBJ reversed the withdrawal policy and planned in some detail the escalation to follow. Crucial to any reevaluation of JFK as President and statesman, this electrifying report portrays a wily, stubborn, conflicted leader who grasped realities that eluded virtually everyone else in the US establishment. -- Copyright ©1992, Kirkus Associates, LP. All rights reserved. <br><br>****<br>You make a good point, Sunny, referencing Marrs, in that JFK's was spectacularly public and bloody in order to make the point that NO ONE can act with impunity in challenging or circumventing the PTB.<br>Starman<br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: I guess he was whacked by the Soviets then.....

Postby NewKid » Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:30 am

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>IMO, if Kennedy meant to identify the intrigues of the Soviet Union in the Cold War as the subject of his speeches about secret infiltrations and subversions and covert warfare, he would have been explicit. As it was, I think he was being deliberately ambigious, allowing his critics and a mostly clueless public to assume he was talking about Communism, when he was REALLY talking about a secret, dangerous rightwing conspiracy that was taking-over America's democracy from within -- in order not to openly antagonize the MIC and alert them to what he was saying -- a 'message' that was only accessable to those relatively few members of society whose perceptions and awareness were similiar to JFK's.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>I agree with alot of what you said about Kennedy's mindset in general in relation to right wing military folks surrounding him, but not in the context of this speech. I doubt very seriously Sorensen and Kennedy were trying to send any kind of message to a few members of society with the Communist line to those whose perceptions and awareness were similar to JFK's. Now anything's possible, but I'm not aware of any historians who make that argument and if you look at the context of those weeks from that paper I linked to earlier and other sources<br><br>(e.g., here <br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.worldcatlibraries.org/wcpa/top3mset/684da2f8ac1e47c4a19afeb4da09e526.html" target="top">www.worldcatlibraries.org/wcpa/top3mset/684da2f8ac1e47c4a19afeb4da09e526.html</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br>and here <br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1741-5705.2005.00268_3.x" target="top">www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1741-5705.2005.00268_3.x</a><!--EZCODE LINK END-->)<br><br>I think you'll see that they had too much else on their minds at the time to be sending coded messages to people. <br><br><br>Remember too, how few people who aren't in attendance at the event would ever hear or read the speech. FWIW, also note that the conspiracy sites I've seen citing this speech focus on the secret society line, and not this passage at all. <br><br>E.g., here <br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://oneheartbooks.com/secret_societies.html" target="top">oneheartbooks.com/secret_societies.html</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br>here (scroll towards bottom left)<br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=45898750" target="top">profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=45898750</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br>here<br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://cleanupcityofstaugustine.blogspot.com/2006/04/jfk-very-word-secrecy-is-repugnant-in.html" target="top">cleanupcityofstaugustine.blogspot.com/2006/04/jfk-very-word-secrecy-is-repugnant-in.html</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br>here (scroll to the bottom)<br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.masonicinfo.com/kennedy.htm" target="top">www.masonicinfo.com/kennedy.htm</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> <br><br>or here <br><br>(second comment of "carrierwave 1"; but see comments of "Masonic Light")<br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread197720/pg4" target="top">www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread197720/pg4</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br>Kennedy was better than most leftist scholars give him credit for, but I don't think he was trying to be Stanley Kubrick or anything. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: I guess he was whacked by the Soviets then.....

Postby NewKid » Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:17 am

Now if you really want a good Kennedy quote . . .<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Red Fay, a friend of Kennedy’s appointed to be Undersecretary of the Navy, wrote a book called The Pleasure of His Company. Fay describes being on a yacht with JFK after Kennedy had read Seven Days in May, and JFK described the conditions under which the U.S. military might overthrow an American President. He said it would have to be a young president (Kennedy was elected at age 43), and he would have to have a Bay of Pigs-type failure. This would make the military nervous and engage in a little criticizing behind his back. Then if there was a second Bay of Pigs, they might get really antsy and “stand ready” to do their patriotic duty to protect the nation. And then if there was a third one, they would act. Kennedy concluded this unusual musing by saying “But it won’t happen on my watch.” <hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>(text accompanying FN 61, citing The Pleasure of His Company, by Paul Fay Jr., Harper and Row, 1966, p.190.)<br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.historymatters.com/essays/jfkgen/LessonsLearned/LessonsLearned.htm" target="top">www.historymatters.com/essays/jfkgen/LessonsLearned/LessonsLearned.htm</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br><br>see also here for some interesting discussion by Lansdale about the meeting where they brought up Northwoods. <br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=236&relPageId=21" target="top">www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=236&relPageId=21</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br>(note bottom of this page)<br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=236&relPageId=22" target="top">www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=236&relPageId=22</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br>(and first paragraph here for JFK response and second paragraph of this page for reference to press in April '61 -- this is what I think was driving the publishers' speech)<br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=236&relPageId=23" target="top">www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=236&relPageId=23</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=236&relPageId=24" target="top">www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=236&relPageId=24</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=newkid@rigorousintuition>NewKid</A> at: 6/19/06 8:25 am<br></i>
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