Page 2 of 5

the Grateful Dead

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 2:21 am
by robertdreed
I've bewildered more than one Dead-hater by slapping headphones on them while the band was in the midst of one or another of their epic moments of ensemble improvisation. <br><br>They were quite overwhelmed, when they didn't know who it was they were listening to. <br><br>Not that this necessarily changed their opinion of the band, when they found out. Not that I care, either. <br><br>I learned a long, long time ago that if you're seeking political leadership, don't look to musicians. Music and poetry work in realms that are only incidental to politics. Musical taste makes a stunningly inappropriate focal point for political activism. <br><br>That's my opinion, anyway. I realize that it's one that isn't shared by political totalists who feel compelled to infuse every artistic endeavor from painting to Saturday morning cartoons with overarching ideological significance. <br><br>Not that I have anything against political benefits, but in the grand buffet of political activity, they're an apertif, at most. <br><br>If Bob Weir or Mickey Hart have "sold out", it's of trivial import in the contemporary Zeitgeist. As far as I can determine, they have perhaps as much relevance to today's American cultural scene as Steve and Eydie Gorme had to the American popular culture of the 1970s. Although it would be nice to hear that they got kicked out of the Grove for pissing on Donald Rumsfeld's shoes, or making some similar gesture. <br><br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=>robertdreed</A> at: 6/22/06 12:53 am<br></i>

Re: Robert Reed's comment.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:36 am
by Hugh Manatee Wins
<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Musical taste makes a stunningly inappropriate focal point for political activism. <hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Boy, do I agree. <br><br>Perfectly nice people like Lynyrd Skynyrd and the song 'Sweet Home Alabama' without realizing that the <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>1974</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> lyrics are a tribute to iconic segregationist George Wallace plus some post-Watergate 'my country right or wrong' jingoism.<br><br>And then a movie with Reese Witherspoon was made with that thoroughly embedded southernism.<br><br>Lots of recruiting in the south where the male warrior identity is inflamed with Civil War agit prop to this day.<br>I think this is what's behind the Dukes of Hazzard nonsense. <br><br>I have several CIA-produced Confederacy relics, albums of Civil War songs and such created by the likes of Allan Nevins, the "Chief Public Affairs Officer at the United States Embassy in London from 1947 to 1947."<br><br>I think we know what that means about Mr. Nevins.<br><br>He also worked on American Heritage magazine pumping up the national identity and putting out Songs of WWI in 1964 when the Vietnam War project was being ratcheted up.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>That's my opinion, anyway. I realize that it's one that isn't shared by political totalists who feel compelled to infuse every artistic endeavor from painting to Saturday morning cartoons with overarching ideological significance.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>There is more than you think and I don't say everything is psy-op despite attempts to portray me as a "totalist."<br><br>If you don't think Saturday morning cartoons aren't social engineering than you haven't seen them. Heck, just the gender roles in those fun old Looney Tunes reels from the 1940s and 1950s can screw a kid up. <p></p><i></i>

Misled By The Dead

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:16 am
by Pissed Off Cabbie
----If Bob Weir or Mickey Hart have "sold out", it's of trivial import in the contemporary Zeitgeist.----<br><br>Well, then, I guess it wouldn't matter too much if Bob Dylan started dating Condi Rice, or if Neil Young sent his kids to boot camp. In the counter-culture, it's alright to cop out and say that you have no responsibility to the movement. You were just making art.<br><br>If anything, Bob and Mickey will have Perle and Rumsfeld in tie-dye t-shirts while they all drink blood from Geronimo's skull. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. <p></p><i></i>

Re: Misled By The Dead

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:22 am
by robertdreed
I think we're all speculating beyond the data a bit, when it comes to the Bohemian Grove. Not that I wouldn't like to know what really goes on shaky teaser video clip from Alex Jones isn't nearly enough for me to figure it out. <br><br>While I'm sure they'd both be flattered by the insinuation, I'm hard-pressed to consider that Bob Weir or Mickey Hart have anywhere near the popular influence of Bob Dylan and Neil Young...for that matter, I'm doubtful of the influence of Bob Dylan or Neil Young in today's popular culture. As far as "rock radio" is concerned these days, Bob Dylan stopped writing songs 30 years ago, after producing a handful of not-quite-hits with easy singalong choruses, unfortunately wretchedly sung and totally without the modern note... <br><br>And who's playing Neil Young's new record? <br><br>Young and Dylan don't get heard these days, they get <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>talked about</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->. Perfunctorily acknowledged by obligatory ritual, due to their iconic status from a bygone era. Sandwiched in between Britney and Brangelina, or what have you. <br><br>Musicians don't matter. What matters is who owns the radio stations, and the prevailing "philosophy" of commercial FM radio programming, a symbiosis of utter condescension toward the audience and sheer mendacity. <br><br>HMW, okay, maybe I should have used another example besides the Saturday morning cartoons. The conventions of commercially sponsored TV really are pernicious...especially in light of the fact that as mass media, nothing approaches it's pervasive power. Films, plays, concerts, art exhibits, literature, poetry...that stuff is all peripheral, in comparison. I didn't have a television in my house for over 20 years, but its impact was simply inescapable. As framer and editor of historical content; as anointer of stardom- for that matter, as reifier of the notion of "stardom" itself; as generator of shared cultural metaphor; as encourager, diverter, channeler of drives and desires...<br><br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=>robertdreed</A> at: 6/22/06 3:40 am<br></i>

Re: Misled By The Dead

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:00 am
by robertdreed
<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>In the counter-culture, it's alright to cop out and say that you have no responsibility to the movement. You were just making art.</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>Damn straight. <br><br>After all, what's the alternative? <br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"We've noticed you sketching in your notebook, you really think you should be drawing a female breast, instead of something more socially useful, like a commemoration of the Greensboro Massacre?" </em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>Fuck that noise. <br><br>Who's supposed to decide what constitues legitimate "counter-culture"- or "culture", for that matter, vs. who's "copping out" and betraying their responsibility to "the movement"? What "movement"? <br><br>Politicization of a subject always carries with it an implicit demand for collective power and control. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=>robertdreed</A> at: 6/22/06 3:35 am<br></i>

young and dylan

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:18 am
by yathrib
"Young and Dylan don't get heard these days, they get talked about. Perfunctorily acknowledged by obligatory ritual, due to their iconic status from a bygone era. Sandwiched in between Britney and Brangelina, or what have you."<br><br>Rather like the phony tributes ppl like GWB pay to Martin Luther King. Praise them, but don't acknowledge anything they said... <p></p><i></i>

Re: young and dylan

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:22 am
by dude h homeslice ix
q: what did the one deadhead say to the other deadhead when they ran out of weed?<br><br>a: my GOD this music sucks!!!<br><br> <p></p><i></i>

Re:What did one Deadhead say to another?

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 2:24 pm
by johnny nemo
Hahahahahaha.<br>That's great !<br><br>I hated the Dead and I was often fond of informing Deadheads that their "heroes" like Jerry Garcia got busted for shooting speedballs in his Beamer.<br>How proletariat, I said sardonically.<br><br>A better example was when Jerry was designing ties for Sak's 5th Avenue, which were worn by Gore and Clinton, and the band grossed 28 million dollars in a year from touring, while his "fans" lived in a self-imposed "anti-materialist" poverty.<br><br>The band did give grant money to people to start soup kitchens to feed the poor, so at least they have one good deed to their name.<br><br>As to the history of LSD, please check the thread I made about the Sexual Revolution being started by pedophiles, in which I have included the entire Aquarian Conspiracy.<br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=>johnny nemo</A> at: 6/22/06 1:16 pm<br></i>

Re: Dead Grove

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 6:27 pm
by professorpan
<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>prof, fyi, the Dead were selling out large stadiums throughout the country well before the 1980's, of that you can be sure.<br><br>They, along with Leary (and a few others), pioneered the acid tests in the early 60's. You might want to do a little research about Leary, the CIA, and its use/experimentation with certain drugs and psychoactive substances.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Isachar, dude, I am very well-versed in the drug counterculture, thank you very much. <br><br>The Dead hit their stride in the late 1980s and the 90s, filling stadiums and becoming the highest grossing touring act. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=>professorpan</A> at: 6/22/06 4:28 pm<br></i>

Re: Dead End

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 6:41 pm
by professorpan
<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>How do you know? Just curious.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>From personal conversations with some people close to Sasha. He also mentions his attendance in either PIHKAL or TIHKAL. <br><br>And having watched that Alex Jones video several times, I have to say the Boh Grove festivities are a far cry from the elite Satanic rituals that the hyperventilating Jones portrays them as. The "Cremation of Care" ceremony reminds me of the goofy, faux-mystical rituals that were part of my Boy Scout group. I laughed out loud when I first saw it. Jones' videotape does more to discredit the allegations of actual sacrificial rituals than anything else. <br><br>That's not to say that some hardcore shit goes on in the Grove, or that the very concept of elites making deals in a hidden summer camp is not sinister. But I suspect many attendees spend their time partying and whoring away from prying eyes, desiring to suck-up to the bigwigs -- and in that respect, it's not much different than the goings-on at super-elite country clubs. <p></p><i></i>

Dead Reckonings

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 6:58 pm
by robertdreed
Sasha mentions the club in PIKHAL, but changes the name to the something different- the "Owl Club", I think it was.<br><br>If I was invited to the Bohemian Club for a week, I'd attend. Stay home, and I'd learn nothing. Spend a few days there, I might learn a lot. <br><br>From the Jones clip, they seem sort of corny to me. I think their use of symbolism is clumsy. I could put together a better ritual for them, as long as it wasn't to be confused with anything serious. <br><br>And Jerry Garcia wasn't "shooting speedballs" when he was busted. He was a smoker, he didn't have a needle habit. <br><br>Obviously, some Dead-haters don't seem to mind making up sensationalistic details as part of their polemics, to make everything as sordid as their own imaginations. <br><br>Neither did Garcia "design ties for Saks." He did some airbrush watercolors, and some of the designs were later appropriated as necktie designs. Which was not his idea, although he did allow them the marketing rights, and got royalties from their sale. In contrast to his attitude toward having Grateful Dead songs appropriated by commercial advertisers despite repeated requests, an anti-exploitative stance that cost him considerable sums of money. <br><br>How many other famous rock musicians have done the same? <br><br>As for the supposed vow of poverty that "nemo" alleges was instrinsic to being a Deadhead, that's simply more caricature, worthy of Rush Limbaugh, or the old cartoonist at the <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Arizona Republic</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->, Benson. Know-nothingism.<br><br>Keep the cheap shots coming, maybe you'll turn up one that I haven't heard. <br><br><br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=>robertdreed</A> at: 6/22/06 5:11 pm<br></i>

Re: Dead Reckonings

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:02 pm
by robertdreed
<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>You might want to do a little research</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>That's what it sounds like you've done. <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>A little</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> research. <p></p><i></i>

Re: Dead Reckonings

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:25 pm
by johnny nemo
Split some hairs, while you're at it, troll boy.<br><br>On 1/18/85, Jerry Garcia was arrested in Golden Gate Park while freebasing cocaine in his Beamer.<br>He was ordered into a rehab program and agreed to play a benefit show for the Haight-Ashbury Free Food Program.<br><br>Jerry died from health complications during withdrawal from heroin addiction. The coronor's report on his death confirmed that he has used heroin in the days prior to his death. <br><br>A "speedball" is a mixture of heroin and cocaine.<br>It's unimportant if he's shooting it or smoking it; he still died from it.<br><br>As you admitted, he made money from designs that were on ties that were sold at Saks 5th Avenue.<br><br>The self-imposed poverty that I spoke of was not only on conversations that I've had with a few Deadheads, but was also based on a news report aboutThe Dead from when they played Vegas.<br>One of the losers who followed him around was talking about how "the Dead are the exact opposite of the greed and capitalism of Vegas".<br>He had no comment when informed that the Dead were millionaires and made 28 million dollars on that tour.<br><br>Q: How many hippies does it take to change a light bulb?<br>A: They don't change it. They wait for it to burn out and then follow it around the country.<br> <p></p><i></i>

Re: Dead Reckonings

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:58 pm
by robertdreed
You neglected the part about Garcia having checked himself into rehab a day or two before- Serenity Knolls, which is where he passed away. In his sleep. <br><br>It was plain in the year before Garcia died that he was in serious physical decline, from years of neglecting his health. It was an unpleasant enough picture to inspire some of us in the audience to decide to do the opposite. <br><br>And he had hereditary sleep apnea, a condition responsible for an estimated 20% of all fatal heart attacks suffered by people in their sleep. <br><br>This is not an attempt to excuse his heroin habit, which cost him dearly and really did lead to a decline in the quality of the live shows played by the band- at first intermittently in the late 1970s, then gradually in the early 1980s, and ultimately precipitously, in 1994 and 1995, when Garcia suffered his final relapse into addiction. But to my taste, they had a lot of good songs. And when the Grateful Dead were good, they could be very good indeed. <br><br>As for your characterization of the Grateful Dead tour scene- how could I ever compete with the expertise of someone who bases his critique around a cursory anecdote culled from a single report from a daily newspaper in Las Vegas? Or was that a TV clip? <br><br><br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=>robertdreed</A> at: 6/22/06 6:02 pm<br></i>

Re: Dead Reckonings

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 8:15 pm
by resonantmonkey
There are plenty, and I mean a plethora ("do you even know what a plethora is"?) of American bands that have not sold out to the extent of The Grateful Dead.<br><br>"Everything just got so commercial"<br>"It was never about the music, stupid, it was about all the really great drugs you could get for cheap at the show(s)".<br><br>I have talked to Dead Heads, have'em as friends, we can agree to disagree on some things. I have also been to more than one Rainbow Gathering...and most of those people are religious to the point of scary about the Dead and how they defend them culturally.<br><br>Look, all that solo, riffing, jamming stuff is okay...the only problem is you have wannabe's running around now making their own "sound" out of such things. Phish is one example. Great musicians in their own right, I am sure, just never jibed with their sound. And, that's...okay. It doesn't make the music I like better, just different. Not everybody has to like the same things. As a matter of fact, I am kind of glad they don't.<br><br>Me, I like Wilco...don't you start talkin' trash bout' no Wilco... <p></p><i></i>