Most important video I've ever seen

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controversy

Postby professorpan » Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:09 pm

This is exactly the kind of controversy that makes people talk about Derren -- the "is it or isn't it real?" and the offering of possible methods. And the more people talk about him, the more likely they are to watch his next special. Voila! Free publicity is the best publicity.<br><br>I do hope he gets a quality TV special in the U.S. I know he was discussing it with some producers, but I haven't heard of any new developments in a while.<br><br>Some other excellent mentalists to watch for: Marc Salem, Banachek, Alain Nu, Gerry McCambridge, Max Maven, and dear old Kreskin. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: 4911 asks

Postby Dreams End » Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:14 pm

I dunno, Pan, you still really haven't answered the question. there is no "how did he do that" in this trick. Just like in the mall when everyone raised their hands at the same time...either it's choreographed with the participants quite consciously throwing their hands in the air on signal or they were "suggested" into doing it. I can accept a few plants in the group to get it started...that wouldn't bother me...but if he just gave everyone a gift certificate for raising their hands in the air and not telling why...that's just stupid and I don't think he'd last unless you guys would cover for someone who's just paying people to perform on TV.<br><br>So the question is...are you saying there is some level of trickery involved in the zombie stunt that is not just actors playing along? I just don't see a middle ground. Either the guy was hypnotized (though possibly before) or he was asked/paid to pretend like he was. <br><br>I'm aware that when most magicians do a levitation on someone, for example, they pretend to put them into a trance. But if this guy was pretending, then mentalists need a board of standards! <br><br>Bio's point is a good one...I'd thought of it. Following the logic, he would have had probably gone to the hypnosis board or whatever and said "It will look like this but here are some assurances that it's not."<br><br>But then again, wouldn't these same people feel compelled to come forward and say, "Hey folks..it's a trick...of course we don't allow this sort of thing...or this sort of thing isn't possible" or whatever. So it cuts both ways. <br><br>So, Pan...I don't know how to tease it out of you without your revealing secrets except to ask:<br><br>1. Do you think the guy was hypnotized or not?<br><br>2. If not, what makes this trick different from just hiring a bunch of actors or otherwise tricking people into playacting? <br><br>3. Or is there some middle ground here I'm not seeing?<br><br>By the way, everyone, a new movie is coming out this fall about a magician who maybe isn't using tricks...cheesy and cliche plotline but it looks pretty interesting:<br><br><br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://The">www.apple.com/trailers/touchstone/theprestige/</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=dreamsend@rigorousintuition>Dreams End</A> at: 7/20/06 9:15 pm<br></i>
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Re: 4911 asks

Postby greencrow0 » Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:19 pm

testing<br><br>don't tell me the gremlins are deleting posts again!<br><br>GC <p></p><i></i>
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Re: 4911 asks

Postby Dreams End » Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:25 pm

KRESKIN!<br><br>He was a hero to me when I was a kid.<br><br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://www.casinonovascotia.com/mac/wallimages/Kreskin.jpg" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Woa, people. This is important. Is the Seattle PI blog ok?

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:32 pm

...back to hypnosis and the place of 'wonder and mystery' in the context of today's scientific fascism after this.<br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Orz says that the Seattle PI blog isn't grey blob redacted when (s)he goes to the link I put in my first post on page one of this thread-</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Seriously, I dunno... no grey blobs at my end; i can read the comments tho the page doesn't display too well... just bad html/php i guess...?<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>ANYONE ELSE? Am I the only one who is getting a large part of that commentary blog on the 'Zombie Rave' shootings blanked out and unreadable??!!<br><br>Why is this happening to me then? That's some voodoo I'd like addressed, please. Help me out. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Woa, people. This is important. Is the Seattle PI blog o

Postby Dreams End » Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:40 pm

I dunno. Maybe you and Orz could talk about it...you know...somewhere else.<br><br>I've consistently seen you talk about computer glitches as if they are plots. Jeff's blog fiasco rises to that level, but you need to learn something about computers first.<br><br>Different browsers react differently to html and other code. For example when I did the Derren Brown bit (remember him?) where he asked you to think of a number and he predicts it, etc...it was done in flash or some other sort of animation. In my computer when he reveals which number he "circled" it draws an animated circle....off to the right of all the numbers.<br><br>On my wife's, the number is circled correctly. <br><br>It's not a plot, and I think you need to get some grounding. This water is deep....you'll want to learn to swim. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: 4911 asks

Postby professorpan » Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:44 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I dunno, Pan, you still really haven't answered the question. there is no "how did he do that" in this trick. Just like in the mall when everyone raised their hands at the same time...either it's choreographed with the participants quite consciously throwing their hands in the air on signal or they were "suggested" into doing it. I can accept a few plants in the group to get it started...that wouldn't bother me...but if he just gave everyone a gift certificate for raising their hands in the air and not telling why...that's just stupid and I don't think he'd last unless you guys would cover for someone who's just paying people to perform on TV.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>There's a reason I'm not answering the question, and it has to do with the primary principles every magician abides by -- keep the secrets. Otherwise, magic loses its power to entertain and it becomes as dry as Sudoku.<br><br>But I'll try to answer the best I can.<br><br>Think of it this way -- the task of a magician is to deceive and entertain. In this case, while you believe "either it's choreographed or it was suggestion" there may be something you are not considering. Part of the magician's deception is to make you believe "it's either x or y." Sometimes it's Z -- something you never even considered. Trust me, I was floored when I learned some of the basic principles of the art. I thought I had an inkling of how stuff worked, but I was waaay off.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>1. Do you think the guy was hypnotized or not?<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Maybe, maybe not. I have several ideas about how he might have made this work.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>2. If not, what makes this trick different from just hiring a bunch of actors or otherwise tricking people into playacting? <hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>You're assuming it's an either/or proposition.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>3. Or is there some middle ground here I'm not seeing?<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Yes. <br><br>I know that isn't very helpful, but I've been honest.<br><br>Here's something I've done on several occasions:<br><br>I mail a sealed FedEx package to the person in charge of booking me, or the president of the company if he/she will be present. I instruct that person to bring the keep the envelope in a safe place -- locked away, if possible. I also ask that they bring the envelope and a copy of the local newspaper on the day of my performance.<br><br>At the end of the show, I bring the person on stage. I ask them if the envelope has remained sealed and in their care. They say yes. I then have them open the envelope and dump out the contents -- a piece of paper. I then ask for the copy of that day's newspaper that they brought.<br><br>I have them open the piece of paper and read the writing on it. What they're reading, on the piece of paper that has been sealed away for a week, is the <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>headline of that day's newspaper.</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>It seems impossible. I've watched people try to deconstruct how it's done until they were blue in the face. It seems that either: a) I am psychic and can predict the headline of newspaper weeks in advance; or b) it's an extremely clever trick.<br><br>I don't tell, of course. But it is a helluva lot of fun to do, and it causes the same type of controversy as Derren Brown's "mind control."<br><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Woa, people. This is important. Is the Seattle PI blog o

Postby professorpan » Fri Jul 21, 2006 12:30 am

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>It's not a plot, and I think you need to get some grounding. This water is deep....you'll want to learn to swim.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Swimming lessons can come later. Throw that man a life preserver, please. <br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: 4911 asks

Postby Dreams End » Fri Jul 21, 2006 12:50 am

Love to catch your act. How do you learn the secrets? Did you start performing enough to be trusted and then, find others who would exchange tips with you? Do you design many of your own?<br><br>Oh...and does the person reading the sealed paper show it to the audience?<br><br>I'd have to see the trick but I assume you don't touch any of those items.<br><br>Back to the topic...I can't even tease an analogy to Pan, faithful to his craft...but I'm really not digging for secrets here....just trying to get at whether or not Brown has demonstrated that you can hypnotize someone suddenly and have them wake up in a scary place...because that's a common theme around here.<br><br>What is hypnotism? Does it work? Is there a difference between "believing" one has been hypnotized and actually being hypnotized?<br><br>How does one tell the difference between thinking you have acted freely while being hypnotized and actually acting freely?<br><br>I was at a prayer meeting once...a long time ago. It was a strange little group a friend of mine had just gotten involved with. (Long story...picture a young man and woman making out, clothes in various states of removal and the woman deciding to "pray in tongues" about whether this was right.....) Actually, I thought it was a bible study but that part lasted only a brief while. Then we all stood up for a closing prayer....<br><br>....<br><br><br>....which lasted for about 45 minutes.<br><br>As the main leader prayed over individuals, other folks began behaving oddly. One sat in a statuesque pose, arms extended at either side as if stuck in a perpetual chorus of "I'm a little teapot." <br><br>Another was writhing on the floor.<br><br>Then they came to pray over me. My friend swears she didn't say anything about me but they knew in their prayer over me that I was a nonbeliever. maybe it's because I was the only one there without a bible.<br><br>Anyway, one stood in front and one in back. One had his hand on my shoulder and one in the middle of my back. And gently...very subtly, they started to rock me back and forth as they prayed.<br><br>I've always been sensitive to direct attention from people. It's hard to explain but ever since I was a little kid, when being paid very close attention...I get a weird sort of energy. It's almost erotic...but not sexual. God...I'm speaking in koans. Anyway it is intense and...hypnotic.<br><br>I could easily have been "slain in the spirit", a charismatic term for passing out in religious ecstasy. However, for better or worse, I never leave my left brain behind and I did not succumb and in fact, felt a bit manipulated.<br><br>But I COULD have succumbed...and what state of mind would that be? Dissociative? Hypnotized? Suspended disbelief? I think these categories are not so neat.<br><br>The question I was trying to ask was this:<br><br>When that man looks back on that video, what do you imagine goes through HIS mind? <br><br>"That' not what happened at all!"<br><br>or<br><br>"God...I wonder why I went along with that?"<br><br>or <br><br>"I don't remember any of that."<br><br><br>or<br><br><br>"That seemed so real at the time."<br><br>or<br><br>"That was the easiest 300 pounds I ever made."<br><br><br>The last, to me, is unacceptable and though I'm not privy to secrets I've always loved magic. I used to like the big illusions until I realized that anyone with enough money could hire someone to build them a big illusion...no skill required (though if you design your own I guess that's impressive.) <br><br>And there's still artistry sometimes...I remember an old Copperfield routine where he has a knotted handkerchief dance all over the stage...even into a bottle which is corked. Well, it was done with strings, of course. I couldn't figure out their exact placement...probably need to be at least four different ones...but it didn't matter...I loved it.<br><br>But if someone did that trick today with some computer generated effects....you agree, Pan, that this would be crossing a line? Unless, I suppose, a live audience could also experience this.<br><br>I lost some respect for Blaine when I learned that he'd done a particular trick...the little levitation illusion that's done just with the right angle of view and the magician's own muscle power..and recorded the reaction of a couple of women on the street. But THEN they shot some footage of him suspended by whatever sort of wire it is that they use in stage illusions, telling the women that they were going to show them how stage magicians levitate. In the final edit, it looked like the women were reacting wildly to a Blaine levivitated 15 feet in the air.<br><br>This crossed a boundary.<br><br>So I'm having trouble envisioning a scenario for the zombie bit that would not cross a similar boundary...that takes advantage of the TV audience in a way that would not be possible with a live audience. <br><br>since there is no "board of standards" I guess those of you in the know will have to sort it out. But let me ask this?<br><br>Since there WAS no live audience....would it, in your opinion, have been crossing a line if he'd just hired those young people to perform this role? Would you be able to tell? <br><br>And now, because of the topic, I feel I must offer everyone the following image.<br><br><br><br><br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://www.recordrobot.com/henning.jpg" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--><br><br>The Richard Simmons of Magic. <br><br>Rest in peace, my friend.<br><br>Pan...if I ever get back out on the West Coast...you are SOOOO taking me to the Magic Castle. I'm not asking you...I'm telling you. And I predict you'll agree...<br><br><br>or else. <p></p><i></i>
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How to Learn?

Postby JD » Fri Jul 21, 2006 12:56 am

So if I go to a magic shop and spring for some specialized books and videos I can learn some mentalist techniques?<br><br>Pretty fascinating topic; if this is the case I just might have to do so.<br><br>Maybe I should book you for my company's next blowout party! Nah probably not worth what would likely be a lot of travel.<br><br>I'm also very fascinated by the stage hypnotists. Very cool stuff. I've always wondered how real this was; perhaps it is simply of a subset of the mentalist magic toolkit. Can you comment on this Pan or do Union Rules prohibit? <p></p><i></i>
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retropsychovideos

Postby Mentalgongfu » Fri Jul 21, 2006 12:59 am

DE, I don't mean to futher derail your thread, but I just wanted to point out that the last part of Prof's post NO. 1052 (should be two above this one, if the thread hasn't grown while I've been typing) might fit well on the thread Jeff started about retropsychokinesis.<br><br>As for the video - I found it disturbing but not believeable, although I was corrupted from reading much of this thread before I watched it. <br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: 4911 asks

Postby NewKid » Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:03 am

DE, that sort of reminds me of Rodney Howard Browne (a/k/a the Holy Ghost Bartender) for some reason. <br><br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5r5Xn7SUGKM&search=rodney%20howard%20browne" target="top">www.youtube.com/watch?v=5r5Xn7SUGKM&search=rodney%20howard%20browne</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.agape.com/dleintro.htm" target="top">www.agape.com/dleintro.htm</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Hypnotism Experience

Postby JD » Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:07 am

I was at a restaurant with 3 of my small kids. One of them said something about oranges.<br><br>Beside our table was a mom with 2 teenage sons. One of the boys started laughing HARD. Like splitting his gut.<br><br>We kept eating; and the guy kept laughing. It was odd as it was simply so intense. I asked wtf was going on.<br><br>The mom and brother replied he'd been hypnotized at a stage show and that he would break into uncontrollable laughter when he heard the word "orange", and this was to last for another week. Upon hearing the word he laughed more and harder than ever.<br><br>My kids thought this was great and the poor bastard heard "orange" a few dozen times; laughing harder and harder. I was actually getting a bit concerned for him; like no shit he'd be in pain after this.<br><br>Anyways; they left the restaurant and I couldn't help to think WTF. Maybe I could hypnotize my autistic son to "Calm Down" whenever he heard the words........<br><br>Haven't followed up on it yet but am intrigued to do so; along with the whole general topic.<br><br>Slightly off-topic - but with all the multiple personality types here - I've heard that different personalities can actually have different physical attributes like allergies - so one personality can be deathly allergic to peanuts while another personality has no allergy. Is this true? If so it is beyond amazing to me.<br><br>All in all I think this is all suggesting the mind is simply far more complex than we can imagine.<br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Hypnotism Experience

Postby Dreams End » Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:29 am

Maybe the video is "fake" as in...no hypnosis or at least no hypnosis where he really believed he was in the video game...but it's opened up fascinating research. THere's a "discussion" site about Brown with all kinds of links. Here's one about the "handshake induction". I want you to read it...and then think about billions at Tavistock or Langley going into researching this..with EEG's reading every brainwave change. I really would like to learn more about this.<br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr><br>Milton H. Erickson:<br>The Handshake Induction<br><br>Dynamics Of<br>The Handshake Induction<br>The handshake induction is one of the most fascinating and effective procedures developed by Erickson for initiating trance. Is is essentially a surprise that interrupts a subject's habitual framework to initiate a momentary confusion. A receptivity for clarifying suggestions is thus initiated with an expectancy for further stimuli and direction. In a letter in Weitzenhoffer in 1061 Erickson described his approach to the handshake induction as a means of initiating catalepsy. When he released the subject's hand, it would remain fixed in a cataleptic position or would keep moving in any direction he initiated. He used this approach as a test to assess hypnotic susceptibility and as an induction procedure. The prerequisites for a successful handshake induction are a willingness on the part of the subject to be approached, an appropriate situation, and the suitability of the situation for a continuation of the experience. An edited version of his outline of the whole process and some variations is as follows:<br>The Handshake Induction<br><br>Initiation: When I begin by shaking hands, I do so normally. The "hypnotic touch" then begins when I let loose. The letting loose becomes transformed from a firm grip into a gentle touch by the thumb, a lingering drawing away of the little finger, a faint brushing of the subject's hand with the middle finger - just enough vague sensation to attract the attention. As the subject gives attention to the touch of your thumb, you shift to a touch with your little finger. As your subject's attention follows that, you shift to a touch with your middle finger and then again to the thumb.<br><br>This arousal of attention is merely an arousal without constituting a stimulus for a response.<br><br>The subject's withdrawal from the handshake is arrested by this attention arousal, which establishes a waiting set, and expectancy.<br><br>Then almost, but not quite simultaneously (to ensure separate neural recognition), you touch the undersurface of the hand (wrist) so gently that it barely suggests an upward push. This is followed by a similar utterly slight downward touch, and then I sever contact so gently that the subject does not know exactly when - and the subject's hand is left going neither up nor down, but cataleptic.<br><br>Termination: If you don't want your subject to know what you are doing, you simply distract their attention, usually by some appropriate remark, and casually terminate. Sometimes they remark, "What did you say? I got absentminded there for moment and wasn't paying attention to anything." This is slightly distressing to the subjects and indicative of the fact that their attention was so focused and fixated on the peculiar hand stimuli that they were momentarily entranced so they did not hear what was said.<br><br>Utilisation: Any utilisation leads to increasing trance depth. All utilisation should proceed as a continuation of extension of the initial procedure. Much can be done nonverbally; for example, if any subjects are just looking blankly at me, I may slowly shift my gaze downward, causing them to look at their hand, which I touch and say "look at this spot.". This intensifies the trance state. Then, whether the subjects are looking at you or at their hand or just staring blankly, you can use your left hand to touch their elevated right hand from above or the side - so long as you merely give the suggestion of downward movement. Occasionally a downward nudge or push is required. If a strong push or nudge is required, check for anaesthesia.<br><br>There are several colleagues who won't shake hands with me unless I reassure them first, because they developed a profound glove anaesthesia when I used this procedure on them. I shook hands with them, looked them in the eyes, slowly yet rapidly immobilised my facial expression, and then focused my eyes on a spot far behind them. I then slowly and imperceptibly removed my hand from theirs and slowly moved to one side out of their direct line of vision. I have had it described variously, but the following is one of the most graphic. "I had heard about you and I wanted to meet you and you looked so interested and you shook hands so warmly. All of a sudden my arm was gone and your face changed and got so far away. Then the left side of your face, until that slowly vanished also.". At that moment the subject's eyes were fixed straight ahead, so that when I moved to the left out to his line of vision, the left side of my face "disappeared" first and then the right side also. "Your face slowly came back, you came close and smiled and said you would like to use me Saturday afternoon. Then I noticed my hand and asked you about it because I couldn't feel my whole arm... you just said to keep it that way just a little while for the experience."<br><br>You give the elevated right hand (now cataleptic in the handshake position) the suggestion of a downward movement with a light touch. At the same time, with your other hand, you give a gentle touch indicating an upward movement for the subject's left hand. Then you have his left hand lifting, right hand lowering. When right hand reaches the lap, it will stop. The upward course of the left hand may stop or it may continue. I am likely to give it another touch and direct it toward the face so that some part will touch one eye. That effects eye closure and is very effective in inducing a deep trance without a single word having been spoken.<br><br>There are other nonverbal suggestions. for example, what if my subject make no response to my efforts with his right hand and the situation looks hopeless? If he is not looking at my face, my slow, gentle out-of-keeping-with-the-situation movements (remember: out-of-keeping) compel him to look at my face. I freeze my expression, refocus my gaze, and by slow head movements direct his gaze to his left hand, toward which my right hand is slowly, apparently purposelessly moving. As my right hand touches his left with a slight, gentle, upward movement, my left hand with very gentle firmness, just barely enough, presses down on his right hand for a moment until it moves. Thus, I confirm and reaffirm the downward movement of his right hand, a suggestion he accepts along with the tactile suggestion of left hand levitation. This upward movement is augmented by the fact that he has been breathing in time with me and that my right hand gives his left hand that upward touch at the moment when he is beginning an inspiration. This is further reinforced by whatever peripheral vision he has that notes the upward movement of my body as I inhale and as I slowly lift my body and head up and backward, when I give his left hand that upward touch."<br><br>Erickson's description of his handshake induction is s bit breathtaking to the beginner. How does one keep all of that in mind? How does one develop such a gentle touch and such skill? Above all, how does one learn to utilise whatever happens in the situation as a means of further focusing the subject's attention and inner involvement so that trance develops? Obviously a certain amount of dedication and patience are required to develop such skill. It is much more than a matter of simply shaking hands in a certain way. Shaking hands is simply a context in which Erickson makes contact with a person. He then utilises this context to fix attention inward and so set the situation for that possible development of trance.<br><br>As he shakes hands, Erickson is himself fully focused on where the subject's attention is. Initially the subjects' attention is on a conventional social encounter, then, with the unexpected touches as their hand is released, there is a momentary confusion and their attention is rapidly focused on his hand. At this point "resistant" subjects might rapidly withdraw their hand and end the situation. Subjects who are ready to experience trance will be curious about what is happening. Their attention is fixed and they remain open and ready for further directing stimuli. The directing touches are so gentle and unusual that subjects' cognition has no way of evaluating them; the subjects have been given a rapid series of nonverbal cues to keep their hand fixed in one position (see last paragraph of the initiation), but they are not aware of it. Their hand responds to the directing touches for immobility, but they do not know why. It is simply a case of an automatic response on the kinesthetic level that initially defies conscious analysis because the subjects have had no previous experience with it. The directing touches for movement are responded to on the same level, with a similar gap in awareness and understanding.<br><br>The subjects find themselves responding in an unusual way without knowing why. Their attention is now directed inward in an intense search for an answer or for some orientation. This inner direction and search is the basic nature of "trance". Subjects may become so preoccupied in their inner search that the usual sensory-perceptual processes of our normal reality orientation are momentarily suspended. The subjects may then experience an anaesthesia, a lacuna in vision or audition, a time distortion, a deja vu, a sense of disorientation or vertigo, and so on. At this moment the subjects are open for further verbal or nonverbal suggestions that can intensify the inner search (trance) in one direction or another. <hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://article">venus.va.com.au/suggestion/hand.html</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.rmjs.co.uk/db/web06.htm">brown discussion link</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Hypnotism Experience

Postby LilyPatToo » Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:50 am

To me, giving a novice hypnotist permission to hypnotize you is like handing a loaded gun with the safety off to a small child. Any survivor of a trauma-based mind control program can tell you that things can definitely be done to human beings' minds that are not generally known or even believed in at all by the public. And there's a reason for that--such information has been deliberately kept classified as much as has been possible since the 1920's in the US. <br><br>That was when the possibilities for creating super-secure intelligence operatives via hypnosis and compartmentalized memories occurred to George Estabrooks. He based his ideas on the work of one Dr. Luria, a Russian researcher. Here's a quote from Dr. Alan Scheflin's speech on the history of mind control:<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Estabrooks...was working in Morton Prince's laboratory at Harvard in the 1920's and he had the idea that if you could cure a multiple personality with hypnosis, maybe you could create one with hypnosis. Why in the world would anyone want to create a multiple personality?...You could create then, a super spy or a super assassin, somebody who would do the bidding of his country and have no knowledge that he was engaged in those acts. Estabrooks said in 1928 that "...my views are somewhat different than most psychologists. I believe the hypnotist's power to be unlimited, or rather only to be limited by his intelligence and his scruples." <br><br>In the 1920's he went around trying to convince the military to create hypnotically controlled individuals, create a multiple personality and use that one as a courier. They thought he was crazy and ignored him until the Moscow Show Trials, and then they took him seriously, and in the archives of his work at Colgate ... there is a notation that <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>he stopped publishing in the mid-1930's because his work had then become classified.<br></strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br>...in an interview he gave in a local Rhode Island newspaper in 1963, he claims that, <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>"... this is not science fiction, it is fact, I have done it."</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> Working for the FBI and the CIA, he would create a multiple personality, program that personality to be a courier, send that personality somewhere in the world have them return and be amnesic for all of that. <hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Out of that beginning grew the monster that is modern mind control. Hypnosis used upon young minds shattered by trauma into multiple personalities is now formulaic. It works extremely well on children who are naturally highly dissociative and well on many others of all ages. To me, it's terrifying to think about the ways its principles are being used to program the masses today. The versions available to non-government practicioners aren't nearly as tightly regulated as I believe they should be, so be *very* careful to whom you grant access to your mind or to your children's minds.<br><br>LilyPat <p></p><i></i>
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