Most important video I've ever seen

by **Project Willow** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:52 pm

A few notes on various issues... I do not believe that Candy Jones' story has been debunked. A well trained mc subject would not notice "missing time", so I don't usually include it among notable symptoms. LillyPat, I wouldn't challenge the idea that hormonal changes have an effect on the brain, however I have always believed amnesia breakdown had more to do with aging in general. A complex DID system is difficult to maintain over an extended period of time, and breakdown can have many causal factors, including those specific to individuals. There are subjects whose systems break down in their twenties, and some in their teens. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>If you look at most survivors' recollections, they tend to be bare of the kind of evidential details that could lead to prosecution of anyone involved. <hr></blockquote> There are many possible explanations for that perception, including from which sources you are drawing it. Publisizing evidentiary details could be too risky and could jeopardize a survivor's ability to bring suit at some some future date. That does not mean they don't exist. I don't disagree that handlers and perps will take every possible outcome as an opportunity to obtain more data and therefore more complete control. This also has been my experience. However, I don't think it's true that level of recall is uniform among the survivor population, or that what some of us have chosen to make public is by and large being controlled. In addition to those who have written memoirs, there are many survivors who have gotten completely free, they just have chosen not to go public. For Prof. Pan, it is entirely possible to regain memory and control for a majority of one's system yet, still be vulnerable to accessing. As long as one section or team remains intact with call-back functioning, the survivor is not completely free, although admittedly she or he would have many more resources and abilities to draw on to prevent a serious incident.

by **professorpan** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:00 pm

Thanks also, PW.

by **LilyPatToo** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:25 pm

I was drawing my impression about the general lack of court-worthy evidence from my own experiences and from those of survivors I know personally. We talk about it frequently, since it's a source of great frustration to us. A Canadian survivor I know well has a huge pile of documentation assembled, but it's still not strong enough evidence to go after any of the perpetrators he's been able to identify. Also, survivors I know only from their published autobiographies have recalled MUCH more in the way of dates and details, yet none (that I know of) have successfully put anyone in jail for their human rights violations. Does anyone here know of such a case that I've missed? Even Paul Bonacci's successful suit hasn't, that I know of...though it may have resulted in one famous witness's suicide to avoid it. I have carefully noted which details that I've posted online have provoked accessings and which seem to be ignored, but I cannot find a pattern in it that would let me know that I'm definitely onto something. My current handler, while a pro, still has made a couple of errors that confirmed for me that he is what I think he is, which was actually comforting--no matter how clever these people are, they DO screw up now and again. But we're deliberately told otherwise, in order to increase our feelings of futility and utter helplessness. Re: missing time--it's turned out to be the main symptom that something was seriously wrong among the survivors I know personally. It was the thing that got most of us entangled in the alien abductee community, due to people like Strieber writing about it. Alien abduction was the only explanation most of us had for our chunks of missing time. Had I not had an alter surface shortly after my mother's death, I might not ever have been impelled to research DID/MPD as a cause for my missing hours, with alien abduction available to me as an explanation, since I'd seen a UFO back in the mid-1960's. I suspect that survivors of cancelled programs, who are "cut loose" and not subject to follow-up and monitoring, may indeed experience breakdown of their alter systems as they age. I know a couple of people who are fairly certain they were briefly in programs and then either dropped or the program ended and they do have much clearer memories of their experiences, so it makes sense to me that those of us who are still being followed and "tuned up" will have fewer, more information-sparse memories surfacing. LilyPat

by **Hugh Manatee Wins** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:45 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Alien abduction was the only explanation most of us had for our chunks of missing time.<hr></blockquote> This possibility of using alien abduction as a cover for spooks messing with people and their memories has been discussed here at RI. The work of Harvard psychologist John E. Mack on finding the commonalities of alien abduction experiences has some thinking he was part of this cover-up scenario and others thinking he was doggedly getting too close to the truth. I missed those discussions but stumbled on the report of his death in London. Hit by a 'drunk driver' while attending a conference. <a href="http://johnemackinstitute.org/center/center_news.asp?id=227">johnemackinstitute.org/ce...asp?id=227</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Statement regarding the passing of Dr John Mack At this time (9.28.04) we must with great sorrow confirm that Dr John Mack has passed away in London, England. Dr Mack was one of several speakers discussing British officer T.E. Lawrence ("Lawrence of Arabia"<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"> at the T. E. Lawrence Society Symposium, in Oxford on Sunday. (Dr Mack's 1977 biography of T.E. Lawrence, A Prince of Our Disorder, received the Pulitzer Prize in biography ; see complete bio below). Dr Mack's Sunday afternoon presentation at the symposium was warmly received and he was asked to stay and present an additional talk, which again met with positive response. On Monday, he spent time in London and went to dinner with friends. On his return that night to the home at which he was staying in North London, while traveling on foot from the tube station, he was struck at approx. 23:25 by a silver Peugeot 306 headed west on Totteridge Lane. Dr Mack was crossing the street near the junction with Longland Drive. Dr Mack was rendered unconscious on impact. The driver of the Peugeot remained on the scene and was joined immediately by a firefighter who resided nearby who responded to the sound of the crash. When authorities arrived on the scene the driver of the Peugeot was arrested on suspicion of driving with excess alcohol. .... John Edward Mack, M.D. (October 4, 1929 - Sep 27, 2004), professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School and Pulitzer Prize-winning biographer, considered to be a leading authority on the spiritual or transformational affects of alleged alien encounter experiences. Mack received his medical degree from the Harvard Medical School (Cum Laude, 1955) after undergraduate study at Oberlin (Phi Beta Kappa, 1951). He is a graduate of the Boston Psychoanalytic Society and Institute and is Board certified in child and adult psychoanalysis. The dominant theme of his life's work has been the exploration of how one's perceptions of the world affect one's relationships. He addressed this issue of "worldview" on the individual level in his early clinical explorations of dreams, nightmares and teen suicide, and in his biographical study of the life of British officer T. E. Lawrence (Lawrence of Arabia), for which he received the Pulitzer Prize in biography in 1977. Mack advocated that Western culture requires a shift away from a purely materialist worldview (which he feels is responsible for the Cold War, the global ecological crisis, ethnonationalism and regional conflict) towards a transpersonal worldview which embraces certain elements of Eastern spiritual and philosophical traditions. Mack's interest in the spiritual aspect of human experience has been compared by the New York Times to that of fellow Harvard alum William James, and like James, Mack became a controversial figure for his efforts to bridge spirituality and psychiatry. This theme was taken to a controversial extreme in the early 1990s when Mack commenced his decade-plus study of 200 men and women who claimed that recurrent alien encounter experiences had affected the way they regarded the world, including a heightened sense of spirituality and environmental concern. Mack's interest in the spiritual or transformational aspects of people's alien encounters, and his suggestion that the experience of alien contact itself may be more spiritual than physical in nature — yet nonetheless real — set him apart from many of his contemporaries such as Budd Hopkins, who advocated the physical reality of aliens. In 1994 the Dean of Harvard Medical School appointed a committee of peers to review Mack's clinical care and clinical investigation of the people who had shared their alien encounters with him (some of their cases were written of in Mack's 1994 book Abduction). After fourteen months of inquiry and amid growing questions from the academic community (including Harvard Professor of Law Alan Dershowitz) regarding the validity of Harvard's investigation of a tenured professor, Harvard issued a statement stating that the Dean had “reaffirmed Dr. Mack's academic freedom to study what he wishes and to state his opinions without impediment,” concluding “Dr. Mack remains a member in good standing of the Harvard Faculty of Medicine.” Mack's explorations later broadened into the general consideration of the merits of an expanded notion of reality, one which allows for experiences that may not fit the Western materialist paradigm, yet deeply affect people's lives. His second (and final) book on the alien encounter experience, Passport to the Cosmos: Human Transformation and Alien Encounters (1999), was as much the culmination of his work with the “experiencers” of alien encounters (to whom the book is dedicated) as it was a philosophical treatise connecting the themes of spirituality and modern worldviews.<hr></blockquote> Was he really led to believe that "non-western consiousness" was the best tool for understanding alien abduction experiences or was not having an answer a reinforcer of that inclination? Or was he part of the fog machine with peer-resistance at Harvard reinforcing his role as rebel? His bio shows him at the right place and the right time looking at the right subjects to be useful to the MK-ULTRA Society for the Investigation of Human Ecology project investigating all aspects of the human mind. But not all participants were witting participants. The CIA didn't tell everyone who they were getting grants from or advising. That was considered too likely to incur non-cooperation. So Mack might've been useful in unknowing ways. His political activism for Kerry (against Bush probably more accurate) along with his prominence as an expert on Lawrence of Arabia (whistleblower against another invasion of Iraq) puts him at odds with the prevailing elite sentiments of the day when he died. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Letter written by Dr Mack a week before his passing We would like to provide a picture of what John Mack was doing a week before he died. On September 17th, six weeks before the American Presidential election, he was in Manchester New Hampshire. He shared this email (composed originally as a letter to his sons) with several of his close friends, so we would like to present it here so that it may in some way make John's passion for a better future seem more real to people: "I had an extraordinary, and really quite wonderful, experience today [Saturday]. It consisted of showing up at an old transformed textile mill in Manchester, followed by door-to-door training in groups, and then a rally with speeches culminating in a barn-burning appeal by Ellen Malcolm, the national chair of ACT (America Coming Together), several hours of canvassing (it was a good day for that because more were home as a result of the heavy rain) with another fellow, and then returning back to headquarters with our "data." There were literally hundreds of volunteers there of all ages, with a huge commitment and great energy. We went to about twenty homes in a very depressed urban neighborhood. There is so much to say about that. I'll hold it now to this: many people were "undecided," not because they've weighed Bush/Kerry and haven't made up their minds, but because they are so oppressed that they haven't had the time or energy to bring to even thinking about an election in this embittered nation (some, a few men included, had little ones on their hips, peaking around them or even greeting us). And these people do care about their children's future, and health care, education, jobs and war matter to them. But they need to be persuaded that one national leader is preferable to another, and that's not hard to do with the information that we all have at our fingertips. When they saw two pleasant mature gentlemen (I was paired with a retired chemist from Sudbury) who cared enough to come from Massachusetts in the pouring rain they listened, and some started to get persuaded. ACT is so meticulously organized (it is working in 19 swing states and is networking with many other grassroots organizations with a similar purpose), especially in its targeting of voters and follow-up (among other things), that they will make sure this experience is repeated until these people get into the voting booths, And they will vote for Kerry for just about all the reasons you and I would. This is, to a large degree, an untapped base, because, it would seem, human door-to-door contact is what it will take, and the campaigns in the past haven't had the people power to do that. We do now, and the growing ranks of volunteers (many, like me, have never done this before, which, by the way, was a powerful talking point) will be able to take advantage of this potential. I will go back the next Saturday or Sunday that I can, and you might want to try it one day. Warmly, John<hr></blockquote> After looking at his own website and the controversy around him I'm inclined to think that Mack had to know about MK-ULTRA and all that went with it with his knowledge of psychology at Harvard but I haven't looked into this in great depth, just a hunch at this point. I know others at RI have looked at Mack more closely and would be interested in hearing their comments. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=hughmanateewins>Hugh Manatee Wins</A> at: 7/25/06 3:53 pm

by **professorpan** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 6:48 pm

I knew of John Mack and found his work fascinating. I never saw any indication he was being disingenuous, though in Ufology there's always someone claiming someone else is a disinfo agent. I think he was killed by a drunk driver. I've heard lots of theorizing over the years, but I've never seen any evidence to indicate he was murdered. And a quick search turns up this: Driver in Dr John Mack accident sentenced - 7 Oct 05 7 October 2005 Sentencing of the automobile driver who struck and killed Harvard professor of psychiatry John E. Mack, M.D. on the night of September 27, 2004, took place today in London at the Wood Green Crown Court. Raymond Czechowski, 52, of Elstree, England, had earlier entered a plea of guilty “by careless driving whilst under the influence of alcohol”. Dr. Mack's family wrote to the Crown Court asking for leniency. "Although this was a tragic event for our family, we feel Mr. Czechowski's behavior was neither malicious nor intentional, and we have no ill will toward him since we learned of the circumstances of the collision,” the letter said. “We have had several talks as a family over the past year, and especially during these past few weeks as we anticipate the time for sentencing, and we all believe John Mack would not want Mr. Czechowski to go to jail. As for ourselves, our grief will not be lessened by knowing that he is incarcerated – in fact, we would wish that he not be.” In pronouncing sentence today, Judge Linda Stern told Czechowki that she had considered "the most generous letter written by the family of Professor Mack," but noted that a message must be sent that "you shouldn't drive with alcohol in your blood." Mr. Czechowski’s blood/alcohol level recorded at the time of the accident was 97mg of alcohol in 100ml of blood. The legal limit in the UK is 80mg. Mr. Czechowski was sentenced to 15 months imprisonment and was disqualified from driving for 3 years. The Judge also ordered that before Mr. Czechowski was allowed to return to driving he must take an extended driving test. Taking into account good behavior, Mr Czechowski is expected to serve 6 months of the 15 month sentence. <a href="http://www.johnemackinstitute.org/center/center_news.asp?id=296">www.johnemackinstitute.or...asp?id=296</a> Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=professorpan>professorpan</A> at: 7/25/06 4:57 pm

by **Hugh Manatee Wins** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:41 pm

I noticed that info on the convicted driver, too, and I considered whether it was possible - just possible, mind you cuz you know me, Prof - whether it would be very easy to have a coupla drinks and then hit your target and get off easy with the perfect alibi. Of course, I also know how common drunk driving is and try not to go on the road on a weekend night when those people are everywhere. Not much booze in the driver. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Mr. Czechowski’s blood/alcohol level recorded at the time of the accident was 97mg of alcohol in 100ml of blood. The legal limit in the UK is 80mg. Mr. Czechowski was sentenced to 15 months imprisonment and was disqualified from driving for 3 years. The Judge also ordered that before Mr. Czechowski was allowed to return to driving he must take an extended driving test. Taking into account good behavior, Mr Czechowski is expected to serve 6 months of the 15 month sentence.<hr></blockquote> No way to know anything one way or the other and so the topics Mack looked at remain the most interesting. I have an as yet-unread copy of Mack's 'Abduction: Human Encounters with Aliens' revised edition from 1994. In scanning it I noticed how the accounts he chronicled sound exactly like MK-ULTRA experiences using very young children as test subjects. Exactly.<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/mad.gif ALT=">:">

by **anotherdrew** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:50 pm

watch Mr. Czechowski when he gets out, if he isn't already, he's going to be doing FINE is my bet. Long weekend vacations out of town, a nice but not fancy job, etc... Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=anotherdrew>anotherdrew</A> at: 7/25/06 5:53 pm

by **Project Willow** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 8:24 pm

LilyPat, I just want to clarify an issue that comes up for me in your writing. You seem to be saying that survivors are either still under some control, whether they've gone public or not, or they are "cut loose" from a program, as if there is no other scenario. Am I misinterpreting you? I would offer that survivors can deprogram and get free, if they have adequate care and support. Repeated accessing may aggravate and slow down the process, but getting free does not depend on the whim of perps.

by **Avalon** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 8:47 pm

Dr. Mack's death can be looked at from a number of perspectives, many of which get into territory that is out of our comfort zones. But without trying to minimize what happened to him, and whether there might be deeper levels to it, I can see that it might have been purely an accident. As an American who has made a number of trips to England, I can testify to the extraordinary danger that crossing the road there can be when you don't have your reflexes changed to reflect cars coming along from the "wrong" side. I had to be grabbed a couple of times in London when I looked left and saw no cars coming (failing to see the juggernaut bearing down on my from the right), and I've done my share of grabbing others in that situation too.

by **anotherdrew** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:05 pm

very true avalon, that's a risk I hope to deal with someday, I'd love to get over there for an extended period of time.

by **Avalon** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:25 pm

FWIW, another danger point is when you have returned to the US from a few weeks in the UK, and have two fully functional sets of reflexes. I recall someone in my rural home here asking me how it was when you started driving at home again after driving in England for a month. I assured her that when you were back home you had a familiar context, and would naturally return to your usual driving habits. And with that I headed down my neighborhood road, driving in the left lane for about a half mile, until I came up to a T-junction. "Wait a minute," I said to myself, "Isn't the stop sign supposed to be on the side of the road of the car it needs to stop? D'oh!" Luckily there was no-one coming, and I was able to scoot over to the appropriate side before someone creamed me. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol">

by **Dreams End** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 2:07 am

This thread has a lot of different interesting elements. Someone with more time might tease them apart and make new posts. Mack's lawyer helping him to retain his position at Harvard was Danny Sheehan. I've posted on him before and when I heard that, I got very distrustful of ole John. Meanwhile, the English girlfriend I lived with and have written about whose dad was in MI5 or 6 (whichever one does the foreign stuff...sorry I get them confused) worked briefly for a literary agent who represented authors hoping to have their books turned into films. Guess who one of his clients was? Yep...Mack. Sadly, I never got to meet him. Back to the main topic..well, the NEW main topic, about survivors and programming break downs. I did find it interesting that my wife's psychiatrist, though accepting of the idea of DID tended to refer to it in psychoanalytic terms....young alters were "regressions", for example. Yet he told me that when women reach menopause DID tends to sort of diminish. Not really true for Debbie's mom, but interesting that he brought that up. Is that accepted in the "mainstream"? As I discover more about this and look back on my own life at several people who fit the profile in so many ways, it has gotten me thinking about how to keep from letting paranoia take over. Hence an earlier warning to Hugh...from personal experience, I assure you. One never knows what's really going on. Consider this: I talked to my wife's therapist and she told me that she finds the idea that it was the babysitter behind all the memories of early sexual abuse to be very credible. She finds her dad's behavior inconsistent with the norm of abusing dads. He let her run around on her own almost all the time (in fact, neglect is a big complaint and really has done the most to shape the character of the triad of parts of her I think of as "Debbie.") He also sent the therapist a check for therapy...no strings attached. The therapist also said she'd found no evidence of any ritual activity. She took my concern seriously, as I've mentioned, and says she's encountered such cases. However, I said to her that I was still concerned because of the recent formation of a coven who circle together...but she made for herself a black hooded robe. In addition, to "christen" her new athame (sacred knife) she drew some of her own blood. Both...fairly uncommon, I think for most Wicca traditions. This lie got the therapist's attention, because she'd specifically stopped Debbie when she'd mentioned having christened this knife and asked her if that meant cutting. Debbie had denied it. She lied to her therapist about this fact. She said she felt she needed to confront Debbie about this but I don't know how that worked out. Whatever the origins, it is quite clear that cutting and blood are both reassuring to her and yet also an occasional punishment. In addition, her use of this sacred knife to cut herself shows that she has her own ritual ideals about this, if nothing else. Oh...and Debbie's real name has some very obvious demonic overtones when mixed with her initials (sorry to be so vague...but it's really easy to spot). The therapist actually asked Debbie's dad about it as it seems a bit...unusual. He gave her a very down to earth story about where the name came from...and "oh, if we'd noticed that we NEVER would have named her that." Interesting, because from what I know, the story he told is completely false, though he may believe it. I think almost daily about RIchard Hamlin. I don't know what the reality of his wife's situation was. But the tape where he announces having slapped her in an obviously coercive attempt to get information makes me sure he was drowning in those waters. I find that these discussions give me some tools to stay afloat.

by **Hugh Manatee Wins** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 2:33 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Mack's lawyer helping him to retain his position at Harvard was Danny Sheehan. I've posted on him before and when I heard that, I got very distrustful of ole John.<hr></blockquote> Crikey, that gets complicated, doesn't it? When I went to the video store today to 'read the releases,' I noticed that a brand new release of 'Sybil' was on the shelf. And at Borders there was a featured rack of DVDs with 'Carrie.' So many occult and negative images of women on the video shelfs. None of this imagery is necessary in our lives. And it is hurtful. Women used to get together to share knowledge about herbs and living things. This scared and threatened men who projected their fears of demons onto women and witch burning resulted. And it continues. And women embrace it just to affirm their empowerment.

by **Dreams End** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 2:43 am

I guess we'll call that one topic number four. So if you want to go that route...there's the rerelease of the Omen and...something I wanted to start a thread about but haven't had time to really look into...a remake of the Wicker Man. I found the original...well, bad for one thing. But I had read about it on a pro-witchcraft site as a positive portrayal of the old traditions. I don't know...burning an innocent man alive didn't strike me as positive...nor did the games the villagers played with his mind, "pretending" to have sacrificed a child to lure the man in.... etc. It looks like the remake will have a more "demon worship" sort of theme to it, but that's an opinion based on very brief glimpses of a trailer.

by **professorpan** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 3:21 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>So many occult and negative images of women on the video shelfs. None of this imagery is necessary in our lives. And it is hurtful.<hr></blockquote> Some would disagree. Carrie warns against religious suppression of female sexuality by patriarchy. Have you watched the film? And Sybil brought the discussion of trauma-based dissocation disorders into the public conversation. I know it's the first I ever heard of it (the TV movie I saw as a kid). And I'd bet that if you quantified the images of women in films, you'd find more positive, feminist portrayals of women than "occult and negative." But again, it's easy to form an opinion without real data to work with other than what one finds on the shelves of one's local Blockbuster.

Most important video I've ever seen

Re: Most important video I've ever seen

Re: Most important video I've ever seen

Re: Most important video I've ever seen

Re: LilyPatToo's comments on alien abduction as explanation

Re: LilyPatToo's comments on alien abduction as explanation

Re:The driver who hit Dr. Mack

Re: Re:The driver who hit Dr. Mack

Re: Re:The driver who hit Dr. Mack

Re: Re:The driver who hit Dr. Mack

Re: Re:The driver who hit Dr. Mack

two sets of reflexes bad too

Re: two sets of reflexes bad too

Re: Christening the knife? Ouch. Self-mutilation.

Re: Christening the knife? Ouch. Self-mutilation.

Re: Christening the knife? Ouch. Self-mutilation.

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