Indian Lake Project, Photos of Exps. on kids

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: Indian Lake is a scene you should make...

Postby LilyPatToo » Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:40 pm

I emailed back and forth with that site's author when it first went up--I'm still looking for the emails at present, since I know I would have saved them. At first, I believed that it was a real world truthful site and I think that's because the kids were of my exact era and I search ceaselessly for anything online from the early programs, hoping to learn more about my own past. <br><br>Then someone on another board said he was certain it was a fake--all of it--and presented a really convincing argument for that take on it, too. I just checked that board and of course the thread is long gone (it's not a site that archives any thread that's not active, unfortunately).<br><br>So I'm interested in your varied takes on it. I hope that someone comes up with real evidence for or against it's truthfulness--if it's gonna happen anywhere, it should happen on this board.<br><br>Has Jeff ever written about it??<br><br>LilyPat <p></p><i></i>
User avatar
LilyPatToo
 
Posts: 1474
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 3:08 pm
Location: Oakland, CA USA
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Indian Lake is a scene you should make...

Postby Sepka » Sat Oct 28, 2006 12:39 am

Col Quisp said:<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>What do they mean by "make the way the Indians do?"<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>I always took it in the generic sense of "to act as", as in "I'll make like an Indian".<br> <p>-Sepka the Space Weasel</p><i></i>
User avatar
Sepka
 
Posts: 1983
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2005 2:56 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Indian Lake is a scene you should make...

Postby Project Willow » Sat Oct 28, 2006 3:01 am

LillyPat,<br>I found the link to this site from one of your posts on a public board. It couldn't have been more than a week old. <br><br>This site does take advantage of our desparate need for proof. I don't think it's real. I have to say, after what DE posted, a friend, a completely unaware civilian looked at the photos and immediately said they were photoshopped. When I looked with her eyes, I thought of course, it's pretty obvious.<br><br>I understand that need, oh I do. But I have to say your power lies in getting at your own memories, what's inside of you. <p></p><i></i>
User avatar
Project Willow
 
Posts: 4793
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 9:37 pm
Location: Seattle
Blog: View Blog (1)

Re: Indian Lake is a scene you should make...

Postby LilyPatToo » Sat Oct 28, 2006 3:40 am

You're right, PW, about the memories, but I have so few to work with. And I did mention the site recently in a couple of places online, but the emails from its author were received quite a while ago, when the site first went up. No communication with him since, though I meant to email him about the updates. Still haven't found the emails (!) but I do recall that he acted as if the whole story was entirely real back then. But that would have been in character if he was just launching his little project.<br><br>I just hate when people do stuff like this. I mean, I'm an artist and a writer and I DO understand the nature of performance art, etc. but damn it, I'm desperate for evidence for those early programs. And it hurts to be taken in this way...it really does. I'm currently dealing with cruel, obnoxious naysayers/deniers/poseurs at the Black Vault board and it takes a lot out of me. I try to be straight with folks online, just as if they were face to face with me. So when someone sets me up or acts as if it's totally cool to accuse me of being dishonest, it really gets to me. The internet has the potential to be so much more than game-playing.....<br><br>LilyPat <p></p><i></i>
User avatar
LilyPatToo
 
Posts: 1474
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 3:08 pm
Location: Oakland, CA USA
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Indian Lake is a scene you should make...

Postby Project Willow » Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:56 am

Yeah, I read those exchanges. There are some people being very brutal. It reminds me of a period long ago when I went into a witchhunt arena and debated fmsf folks, not quite the same, but I had a strange compulsion to do it.<br><br>One of the posters at Black Vault claiming to be a survivor, his/her posts are filled with trigger words, phrases, and cultural references. Be careful out there.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
User avatar
Project Willow
 
Posts: 4793
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 9:37 pm
Location: Seattle
Blog: View Blog (1)

Re: Indian Lake Project, Photos of Exps. on kids

Postby Ziggin' and a Zaggin' » Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:13 pm

Never thought I was going to revisit this topic but I just finished reading a book by Carol Rutz: A Nation Betrayed: Secret Cold War Experiments Performed on our Children and Other Innocent People. It had been on my wish list for a while on Amazon but the paper version was too expensive at over $160. The kindle version was much more affordable so I went for it a couple of days ago. While reading this very interesting but very troubling account of an MK Ultra survivor, I stumbled upon the following passage:

"After a summer vacation to my cousins in southern Ohio, I was taken to the Adirondack Mountains where I was programmed."

I realize that the Adirondacks comprise a very large area but I couldn't help making a connection with the Indian Lake Project mystery. Is this a significant link? I don't know.

In the past, while attempting to make sense of the Indian Lake Project, I searched its location and noticed that the village of Indian Lake is more or less on the way to Montreal if you started from Albany. After reading that Dr. Ewen Cameron - of MK Ultra-McGill University fame - "commuted from Albany to Montreal every week to work at McGill's Allan Memorial Institute", according to wikipedia. It is therefore not completely unreasonable to imagine Dr. Cameron making the occasional detour - off the more direct route to Montreal - and drop by Indian Lake to check on things. If someone were to tell me that Dr. Cameron always took the train - a very plausible alibi - then that would be the end of that speculation. Still, I wonder.

The Indian Lake Project blogspot website hasn't been updated in over 2 years and nothing very substantial has been added since the initial post in 2007. The latest post was in February 2013 asking readers to watch for updates on a twitter account (@IndianLkProject). I'm not on twitter so I don't know if there have been any updates.

I think the main reason this subject - Indian Lake Project - has stayed in the back of my mind for so long is the sadness I felt when I saw the photographs of those children that were apparently used in the project. It's hard to forget those faces. I guess I never will.
Last edited by Ziggin' and a Zaggin' on Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"La vérité et le matin s'éclaircissent avec le temps."
User avatar
Ziggin' and a Zaggin'
 
Posts: 146
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:36 am
Location: The Great White North
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Indian Lake Project, Photos of Exps. on kids

Postby Elvis » Fri Nov 27, 2015 10:26 pm

Ziggin' and a Zaggin' wrote:The latest post was in February 2013 asking readers to watch for updates on a twitter account (@IndianLkProject). I'm not on twitter so I don't know if there have been any updates.



You can follow them without joining, on the Twitter website: https://twitter.com/indianlkproject

(Nothing added since 2013.)
“The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.” ― Joan Robinson
User avatar
Elvis
 
Posts: 7411
Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:24 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Indian Lake Project, Photos of Exps. on kids

Postby Grizzly » Sat Nov 28, 2015 4:06 am

Ahhh, might this, "Carol Rutz: A Nation Betrayed: Secret Cold War Experiments Performed on our Children and Other Innocent People." be part of what Arthur Silber, presents in his THE ROOTS OF HORROR: The Institutionalized Destruction of Innocence -- and of Life collection of Alice Millers work? Anyone here familiar with Alice Miller? Or Silber? Just a shot in the dark...

http://thesacredmoment.blogspot.com/200 ... lized.html

http://thesacredmoment.blogspot.com/

http://powerofnarrative.blogspot.com/
“The more we do to you, the less you seem to believe we are doing it.”

― Joseph mengele
User avatar
Grizzly
 
Posts: 4722
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:15 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Indian Lake Project, Photos of Exps. on kids

Postby Ziggin' and a Zaggin' » Sat Nov 28, 2015 11:54 am

I am not familiar with Alice Miller nor Arthur Silber. Glancing through the links you provided, it seems to me that these authors are focused on child abuse in the family in general and how obedience suppresses the development of identity.

Carol Rutz tells a relentlessly horrific story of a child - already abused by her relatives - becoming a guinea pig for the CIA's contracted goons in white coats, psychiatrists hiding behind the convenient anonymity of official secrecy. It is a heart-wrenching account of her experiences at the hands of various psychiatrists and other scientific types who create different identities through traumatic and painful situations so that these may be called upon to do their bidding. Among the expected sinister characters that tormented her are some of the known MK Ultra thugs: Sidney Gottfried, Ewen Cameron, Harold Wolff, etc. There is also one villain to top them all: Josef Mengele. According to Rutz, Mengele did not live out his life as a quiet Nazi hermit in South America. Based on her and other MK Ultra victims' accounts, Mengele made several visits to the USA and Canada and perhaps elsewhere. And he did this in the years following his alleged death as well. I'm not sure what to make of this particular detail, i.e. Mengele's involvement, but having some experience with the world of classified information and the pernicious employment of national security to cover up anything and everything, I would say that it is not impossible to fathom such a thing. After all, Klaus Barbie was exfiltrated to South America by the US Army Counter Intelligence Corps and it's only in 1983 that he was extradited to France from Bolivia.

The purpose of my previous post was to suggest a possible link of MK Ultra to the Indian Lake Project. I've read the previous posts on this. Some have proposed an explanation: it was viral marketing. Really? So what, pray tell, has been marketed with this story? Jackshit, if you ask me.

There has been one very unfortunate development in this Indian Lake Project mystery. The Village of Indian Lake - that is the local authorities - has sunk as low as to cooperate in the making of a fake video à la Blair Witch of the apparent disappearance of a group of young explorers who came to the village to investigate the Indian Lake Project mystery. For the promotion of tourism. Deplorable, in my opinion. Check it out.
"La vérité et le matin s'éclaircissent avec le temps."
User avatar
Ziggin' and a Zaggin'
 
Posts: 146
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:36 am
Location: The Great White North
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Indian Lake Project, Photos of Exps. on kids

Postby elfismiles » Sun Nov 29, 2015 10:45 am

Ah yes ... the ILP: http://indianlakeproject.blogspot.com

I recall looking back at this thread and the site for clues a few years ago but don't recall finding anything definitive.

Seems more likely to be Chaos Fiction or an Alternate Reality Game (ARG) than Viral Marketing (though your speculation about Ewen Cameron making side-trips to IL on his commute from Albany to Montreal every week to work at McGill's Allan Memorial Institute is interesting. The author posted about the possibility of someone seemingly trying to lead them astray in a way that implies an ARG:

One example was “Mary” and another is America’s Research Gate (ARG).

A few moths ago I got an email from “America’s Research Gate”, and I posted the connection I found between that email and the Cowsills song “Indian Lake”. I now believe that the initial email regarding America’s Research Gate was bogus, and designed to send me on a wild goose chase. I think someone (or group) cleverly pointed me in a direction using cryptic clues within that email that led to something about Indian Lake, which they knew would interest me, but ultimately was a dead end.

Why? That is the big question. Could it be that someone wanted me to explore something other than the underground complex? Could it be that someone just wanted to see how I would react to a “clue”? Could it be that someone was testing the idea that the Indian Lake Project was some sort of Alternate Reality Gaming experience? Both America’s Research Gate and Alternate Reality Gaming have the same acronym – ARG.
I don’t know why it was done, but I am no longer following that path and I am back on track. The reseach into “America’s Research Gate” is over.

Labels: Alternate Reality Gaming, America's Research Gate, Indian Lake Project

posted by John at 8:38 PM
http://indianlakeproject.blogspot.com/2 ... ed-in.html


So of course I looked for info at the UnFiction UnForums and there are some lengthy threads there but they seem to have gone nowhere and stopped in 2007, with a stray post in 2009:

Search for "indian lake project" at the Unfiction Unforums.

Going to go look at that video "documentary" news blog post:
http://www.adirondackexperience.com/blo ... an-lake-ny

Ziggin' and a Zaggin' » 28 Nov 2015 15:54 wrote:...
The purpose of my previous post was to suggest a possible link of MK Ultra to the Indian Lake Project. I've read the previous posts on this. Some have proposed an explanation: it was viral marketing. Really? So what, pray tell, has been marketed with this story? Jackshit, if you ask me.

There has been one very unfortunate development in this Indian Lake Project mystery. The Village of Indian Lake - that is the local authorities - has sunk as low as to cooperate in the making of a fake video à la Blair Witch of the apparent disappearance of a group of young explorers who came to the village to investigate the Indian Lake Project mystery. For the promotion of tourism. Deplorable, in my opinion. Check it out.
User avatar
elfismiles
 
Posts: 8511
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:46 pm
Blog: View Blog (4)

Re: Indian Lake Project, Photos of Exps. on kids

Postby elfismiles » Sun Nov 29, 2015 11:04 am

Indian Lake Project Video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1ecs5yFA_4

Published on 27 Oct 2015

http://www.adirondackexperience.com/blo ... an-lake-ny

Sometime in the fall of 2015, three amateur filmmakers seemed to disappear in the woods near Indian Lake, NY while shooting a documentary on the Indian Lake Project.

This footage was the only thing that was found.

Category
Travel & Events
Licence
Standard YouTube Licence


Creepy Things That Seem Real But Aren’t: The Indian Lake Project
4 years ago by Lucia Peters
http://www.crushable.com/2011/07/16/ent ... e-project/
http://supersoldiertalk.com/2014/06/29/ ... e-project/

Did Government Experiments Take Place in the Adirondacks in the 1950s – The Indian Lake Project
By Eric Meier March 5, 2015 2:00 PM
...
Is This Just Internet Fiction?

There is a long-standing internet genre known as creepypasta, online horror stories. The best creepypasta includes multimedia like photos and videos, links to websites that perpetuate or substantiate the story. Heard of Slenderman? That’s creepypasta. The website Crushable took a look at the Indian Lake Project and while they couldn’t make any definitive decision, felt the Indian Lake Project had all the hallmarks of an elaborate piece of internet fiction.
Conclusion

Perhaps we’ve never know the truth behind the Indian Lake Project. The blog has not been updated in two years (as of this article’s publication in March of 2015).

Read More: A Look at an Adirondack Urban Legend - Indian Lake Project |
http://lite987.com/indian-lake-project/ ... ck=tsmclip


Indian Lake Project Documentary Footage Found
Location and well-being of the researchers: UNKNOWN
...
Unfortunately, sharing this side of the park is where things have seemed to catch up with me - leaving me rethinking the concept of sharing my life and experiences in such a public way. To be honest, I am completely freaked out at this moment because it appears that one particular blog that I wrote this past winter has not only possibly caused 3 people to be injured, go missing, or worse, but it has also caused someone (or multiple people) to find me.
http://www.adirondackexperience.com/blo ... an-lake-ny


These 7 things even keep the locals wondering!
Weird, wacky, unique... call it what you will, we simply call it home.
...
4.The Indian Lake Project

This next weird thing has left some of my colleagues (and I am not going to name names) unable to sleep at night. Conspiracy theory buffs will be happy to know that even the Adirondacks has its own creepy conspiracy theory.

The Indian Lake Project - Metal Box holding photos, video and documents about the I.L.P (indianlakeproject.blogspot.com photo)

In October of 2005, a mysterious blog appeared online discussing the eerie contents found inside a weathered metal box. John (or what the blogger claims his name to be), stated that in 1997 his uncle was out for a hike in the woods near Indian Lake, NY when he stumbled upon the half buried metal box. Within the box he found a bunch of weathered photos, three reels of 8mm video and a few documents that all reveal the existence of the Indian Lake Project. John set out on a mission to uncover the truth behind the Indian Lake Project (also known as I.L.P.) and kept readers updated on his adventures by using the blog that he created.

Stills from one of the movie reels found within the medal suitcase (indianlakeproject.blogspot.com image)

From the evidence John uncovered, he reveals that in the 1950s Indian Lake was home to a military research facility called The Indian Lake Project, which performed mind control experiments on children. His research indicates that I.L.P. was a branch of the CIA's project ARTICHOKE which was later renamed MKULTRA (both real CIA projects). As John begins to piece together information from the assortment of items found in the box, he begins to receive photographs in the mail which contain some of the same people as those found in his images. The people sending these photos to him claim to be the relatives of the people in the images from the mysterious box. Meanwhile, John is spending a considerable amount of time exploring the wooded area around where the box was found and uncovers some even more unusual finds...

"I don’t know what they are, but I know they don’t belong in the middle of the woods." - John, The Blogger (indianlakeproject.blogspot.com) Underground complex John claims to have found in the woods near Indian Lake, NY. Is this proof that the I.L.P. did exist? (indianlakeproject.blogspot.com image)

John continued to research the Indian Lake Project and update readers on his findings on and off until February of 2013. During the time of his active investigation, he reported to have been followed, received haunting phone calls, and even had his house broken into in a haphazard attempt to recover the items from the metal box. One of his last blog entries stated that he was starting a new Twitter account to keep followers updated, but soon thereafter all activity on his behalf ended. Did John just lose interested in investigating the Indian Lake Project, or did he come too close to uncovering a piece of history that was meant to remain buried for eternity and something or someone came after him?

Real, or simply internet fiction? That is not the only question that this weird Adirondack "thing" leaves me wondering about. What I also want to know is how no one seems to know who is behind this mysterious blog that seemed to appear out of nowhere.

http://www.adirondackexperience.com/blo ... ack-things
User avatar
elfismiles
 
Posts: 8511
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:46 pm
Blog: View Blog (4)

Re: Indian Lake Project, Photos of Exps. on kids

Postby elfismiles » Sun Nov 29, 2015 11:51 am

Okay, having now watched the video and read the article ... I think this IS viral marketing for the city of Indian Lake BY the City of Indian Lake. That's just my first gut reaction since the "journalist" writing the article here:
http://www.adirondackexperience.com/blo ... an-lake-ny

... implores those interested in helping to NOT contact local authorities but to post their info to that page:

...

I don't want to talk much more about the contents of this video. I encourage you to watch it and if you can identify any of the three filmmakers (Sebastian, Tracey, Kenny), and believe them to be missing comment below - but please do not contact your local authorities, do not endanger yourself ...

My office on Friday Morning - 10.23.15

I immediately left the office and spent the weekend with my family at an undisclosed location where no one would likely find us. It has been a few long days with little sleep, jumping at every sound, and wondering who delivered that package to me and why? Who was in my office, going through my stuff? And the worst thought... are they coming for me next?
A Final Plea for Help!

I didn't want to ever post anything again, for fear of revealing my identity to even more people, but then I thought about Tracey, Kenny, and Sebastian and their families. Do their loved ones know where they are? Are they being held somewhere and maybe there is a piece of evidence on this video that will help someone find them? I couldn't live with myself knowing that I put my own safety above theirs.

Please watch the video and if you know something, please post in the comments section below... again, DO NOT contact authorities as it is most likely the government that is behind this - instead simply post your information below and our independent task force will follow up on all leads. And finally, if you do post, please do me one more favor... watch your back!

- Happy Halloween ;)



So ... don't contact authorities about possible missing persons ... and ... "Happy Halloween" winky-face!?!?!?

Oh and the blogger, Michelle Clement ...

Michelle is the Tupper Lake & Hamilton County Marketing Manager for the Regional Office of Sustainable Tourism.
http://www.tupperlake.com/blogger/michelle-clement


... oh, and she's the "Tupper Lake Chamber of Commerce’s events coordinator" ...

New events coordinator
March 11, 2013
Adirondack Daily Enterprise

Michelle Clement, the Tupper Lake Chamber of Commerce’s events coordinator, addresses the Tupper Lake village Board of Trustees on Feb. 19. Clement started the job Feb. 11, replacing Faith Bedore.

http://www.adirondackdailyenterprise.co ... 35902.html


Oh ... and of course Michelle admits it all is a publicity stunt:

Michelle Clement replied on Wed, 2015-11-25 14:21 Permalink

Indian Lake Project
Thank you for your feedback, Kristopher. These blogs and videos are a big part of our marketing effort to drive tourism to the region, so we're happy that our local town office experts were able to participate.

http://www.adirondackexperience.com/com ... omment-143
User avatar
elfismiles
 
Posts: 8511
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:46 pm
Blog: View Blog (4)

Re: Indian Lake Project, Photos of Exps. on kids

Postby elfismiles » Sun Nov 29, 2015 12:17 pm

D'Oh! :wallhead:

"Deplorable," agreed.

Ziggin' and a Zaggin' » 28 Nov 2015 15:54 wrote:...
There has been one very unfortunate development in this Indian Lake Project mystery. The Village of Indian Lake - that is the local authorities - has sunk as low as to cooperate in the making of a fake video à la Blair Witch of the apparent disappearance of a group of young explorers who came to the village to investigate the Indian Lake Project mystery. [b]For the promotion of tourism. Deplorable, in my opinion. [/b]Check it out.
User avatar
elfismiles
 
Posts: 8511
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:46 pm
Blog: View Blog (4)

Re: Indian Lake Project, Photos of Exps. on kids

Postby Ziggin' and a Zaggin' » Sun Nov 29, 2015 12:19 pm

Thanks for your contributions to the discussion, elfismiles. The Indian Lake Project remains an enigma to me. I don't buy the ARG explanation. I'm still not sure what to make of it though. I haven't read or seen anything that would allow me to dismiss this issue as a hoax. We may never know since almost everything of any use concerning MK Ultra was destroyed years ago. The uncovered financial documents related to MK Ultra can only go so far to paint a picture of the program. I'm sure the grizzly details were contained in the destroyed documents.

If the Indian Lake Project was part of MK Ultra, it most likely would've been done under the Monarch Program, and again if such a program did in fact exist. It will take more than the testimonials of MK Ultra victims/survivors to come to any definite conclusion, unfortunately. It would be helpful if some former military/intelligence participants would come forward with public statements as has been done with UFO witnesses in the Disclosure Project. But would any of these MK Ultra participants come forward if on one hand they would face possible criminal prosecution or, on the other, be subjected to harassment or worse from their former employers? It's likely, however, that the participants/culprits have died of old age by now anyway. The best thing would be that whoever is behind the ILP blogsite will just have to "shit or get off the pot", meaning confess to a hoax or allow credible investigators to see the evidence, including the location of the structures he/she supposedly stumbled upon.

For the time being, I will get started on my next book: The CIA Doctors - Human Rights Violations by American Psychiatrists, by Dr. Colin A. Ross. In a way, I kind of hope I don't find a tidbit in there that will resurrect my interest in the Indian Lake Project (ILP).

P.S. It occurred to me that by referring to Village of Indian Lake's involvement in the recent fake video of missing ILP investigators as part of a tourism marketing effort, I may have given support to the idea of viral marketing as an explanation... except that the tourism marketing took what 7-8 years to get off the ground. I don't think viral marketing efforts would plan that far ahead... or that the Village authorities are that far-sighted.
"La vérité et le matin s'éclaircissent avec le temps."
User avatar
Ziggin' and a Zaggin'
 
Posts: 146
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:36 am
Location: The Great White North
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Indian Lake Project, Photos of Exps. on kids

Postby Ziggin' and a Zaggin' » Sun Nov 29, 2015 12:55 pm

I just sent an email to the person from the Regional Office of Sustainable Tourism who posted the recent story about the "missing investigators", asking if she was behind the initial blogsite for the Indian Lake Project and if the whole thing was a hoax from the beginning, i.e. February 2003. I look forward to her reply and will share the results with RI.
"La vérité et le matin s'éclaircissent avec le temps."
User avatar
Ziggin' and a Zaggin'
 
Posts: 146
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:36 am
Location: The Great White North
Blog: View Blog (0)

PreviousNext

Return to Mind Control

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests