Richard Heinberg Openly Supports White Separatist

by **jenz** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 10:54 am

I don't understand what you understand by these items you have selected.

by **veritas** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 11:05 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>It worth mentioning that in early 90's the National Bolsheviks and their main ideologist Alexander Dugin tried to bring Aleister Crowley's ideas to wide popular masses in Russia with enviable persistence. In this situation of course neither esoteric Crowley nor Crowley the Magician but Crowley the "Conservative Revolutionary", a fearless fighter against the mondialist regime was meant. Everything started at the beginning of 1993 from the visit to Moscow of someone remarkable figure who called himself "frater Marcion", the head of the O. T. O. in France. Excerpts from his interview were shown in Alexander Dugin's TV-programme and than reprinted in Dugin's almanac Mily Angel ("The Sweet Angel"<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"> #2 and the book The way to Apocalypses. Knocking to the Golden Gate (the first edition - 1997) by Yury Vorobyevsky, Dugin's associate at that time. Having introduced himself as the head of the French branch of the O. T. O. "frater Marcion" went into verbose reasoning on close connection between Nazism and secret societies, alleged that everything "what was said about what had been happening in Nazi concentration camps was a tremendous overestimation" and at last significantly promised to the audience that "they would see the outcomes of my visit to Russia by themselves in the nearest future". He was absolutely right anyway in his last allegation. But first of all some information is to be delivered: "frater Marcion's" real name is Christian Bouchet. In his native land he is mainly known not by his investigations on Magick but by his activities in a neo-Nazi group Nouvelle Resistance (New Resistance), indefatigable struggle against Zionism and intimate friendship with Islamic fundamentalists from Iran and Libya. He never headed any "branch of the O. T. O." in France. Actually, Bouchet had been a member of the Order for about ten years but he was expelled for breaking the Manual after having got just the first degree of initiation. It worth mentioning that he was expelled from the Order in 1992 i. e. still before his visit to Russia. It's difficult to say either the French rogue deceived Russian "conservative revolutionaries", who gave him opportunity to speak on behalf of the O. T. O. in their native media, or the latter themselves participated in the fraud. However, one really shouldn't suppose that the "conservative revolutionaries" are too scrupulous. For instance, they incorporated excerpts from the anti-freemason feature movie "Occult forces" (1943) by French fascist Bernard Fey into their 1995 TV-program "Mysteries of the century" covering inter alia the O. T. O. and Crowley. When the program was demonstrated a voice beyond the scene alleged this "sequence had been taken in the Lodge of the Scotch ritual". The simple calculation was based exclusively on complete ignorance of the Russian audience that didn't see the movie and therefore took actors as real freemasons. It's funny that in the same years the "conservative revolutionaries" even tried to use the name of Crowley in their 1995 election campaign to the Russian parliament. At the arranged for young people pre-election concerts they recited excerpts from The Book of the Law mixing them up with singing Soviet patriotic songs. ------------snip--------------- In Spring 2000 the Supreme Council of the Order issued the Charter for foundation of the first Russian branch of the O. T. O. - Pan's Asylum Camp. The members of the Order who recently visited Russia repeatedly said the Magick of Thelema would get a lot of passionate followers in this country. There are reasons to consider the forecast will prove to be correct in the nearest future. <a href="http://www.oto.ru/cgi/texteng.pl/article/texts/2">www.oto.ru/cgi/texteng.pl...le/texts/2</a> <hr></blockquote>

by **veritas** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 11:08 am

It is clear. Others see. Maybe you will, too.

by **jenz** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 12:07 pm

what do you see as his importance as a propadandist? because you do not briefly and openly state your analysis, it is easy to end up talking at cross purposes. also, as a non californian, it is hard for me to read some of the quoted material, and believe that anyone with half a brain would take it seriously. (not including the last section of reportage) would you buy claims based on knowledge of belief systems 'thousands of years" old... or claims to know what these were in paleolithic times? would you take anyone seriously (academia wise) who countenanced ideas about race which cannot be established from known genetic and linguistic research? I do you the service of presuming not. I take a rapid google and find the man teaches a couple of courses at a place called New College of California, but that's low on staff profiles. so.. to be quite honest, i have found your presentation quite confusing and condescending, and perhaps deliberately slippery. Maybe its a cultural problem. Maybe we both have the same take on this, but i'd be hard put to know from what you write.

by **veritas** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 1:04 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>I take a rapid google and find the man teaches a couple of courses at a place called New College of California, but that's low on staff profiles.<hr></blockquote> You are fast! <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Results 1 - 10 of about 234,000 for "Richard Heinberg". <hr></blockquote> So maybe is not a good thread for you to read. It will waste your time. There are many other threads on this board. Enjoy them! For others...here is more. Who are the "Emissaries of Divine Light"? Richard knows. Yes he does. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>(From an interview) I became a writer and lived in a number of intentional communities. SS: Which ones? RH: One in Toronto, Canada called Society of Integrated Living, SOIL for short; one in Colorado called <a href="http://www.sunriseranch.org/">Sunrise Ranch</a>… SS: Which is a spiritual community? RH: That’s right. In the early ‘90s my wife and I moved from an intentional community in Southern California called <a href="http://www.glenivy.org/">Glen Ivy</a> up to Santa Rosa and I decided from that point on I would make my living completely as a writer. I wrote several books on environmental spiritual themes, one called "Celebrate the Solstice," another "A New Covenant with Nature." Then toward the end of the ‘90s I read a Colin Campbell/Jean Laherrere article in Scientific American, and that set some gears going. I got on the energy resources list and started reading Jay Hanson's “Die Off” web site and all the links and recommended readings there. It basically turned my whole world around. I had written a whole book criticizing industrialism and the whole industrial revolution without any reference at all to energy (laughs). This completely reorganized my thinking. <a href="http://www.theoildrum.com/story/2005/9/24/233315/937">www.theoildrum.com/story/...233315/937</a> <hr></blockquote> Sunrise Ranch. Glen Ivy. Run by the Emissaries of Divine Light. Do they bring us light, or darkness? Former members know. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Sexual abuses and cover-up's were made public during the first "open" council (described earlier). Exeter (leader of group) and his wife denied knowing about the abuses, though I personally knew two people who had informed them in writing about particular abuses. Women have told me they were seduced, coerced, threatened, and even stalked by men in leadership positions. They have told me about sexual abuse of children. I have heard that in central and eastern regions of the U.S., teenagers were forced to lose their virginity to their group leaders, with the explanation that this guaranteed a spiritually sound beginning to their sex life. I don't know if this was done in all regions and in Canada. ---------------------snip--------------------------- (From Interview with former member...not Richard...no confusion)  I was told it was vital to confide everything about my life, including my finances and sexual life. At first it was spelled out completely, to whom I was to tell what. Later the instructions were revised and one could communicate to anyone "upwards." After that I discovered that reports were written about us locally and sent to regional coordinators, who then reported to Exeter . Class faculties also wrote reports about each student. I don't know if these practices continue. <a href="http://www.factnet.org/cults/Emissaries_Divine_Light/Barbara_Clearbridge.html#Sexuality">www.factnet.org/cults/Emi...#Sexuality</a> <hr></blockquote> Is he still an Emissary? Do others know his secrets?

by **AnnaLivia** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 2:59 pm

must help mom again. am reading your sources and beyond, v. back soon as i can. another big thanks in meantime...

by **shem** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 9:11 pm

[and pls dont come to the conclusion after reading this that im for one or other side] so there's these baddies...and they want to kill us...and theyre bad, bad...so what are you going to do when youve identified them?...kill 'em?...hmmm...but thats what they have done...they identified some group as bad, as plotting to kill them, so they are organising to...kill them...that is, you...and you are good...they shouldnt kill good people...people who want to kill good people are bad...we gotta kill 'em first! before they kill us!...hey, then the world will be great!...all the baddies gone...only good people...terrific!... the yinyang symbol - a circle, symbol of perfection, peace, smoothness, fullness, abundance, completion - divided by an S, making two equal sized, equal shaped areas, distinguished black and white - in the head of each fishlike shape, a contrary colour dot - which, i am going to guess, grows as the shapes revolve around each other, turning the white to black, the black to white... the americans were good in ww2, bad in vietnam...same people...americans in both cases saw or thought they saw a threat to themselves...the greatest idea in the history of the world...identify the bad and kill 'em...if it turns out the ones you kill werent bad, then you become bad by having killed them...were the vietnamese going to take over the usa, or were they just having a local they-are-bad,-so-lets-kill-'em?...the nazis thought communism was a jewish plot to kill the germans, so the germans got up to kill 'em...and control a big enough area to ensure the german safety...and then the french got the idea that the germans might be trying to kill them, and loot their art galleries while they were at it, so the french got up to kill 'em...and the americans helped them!...and that was good...that was great...killed the baddies...ah, lovely peace again...hooray the russians thought that america was going to take them over, enslave them and exploit them...so the russians organised to protect themselves...and maybe take over some more land so's the russians would be in a strong position...the americans took over south america to be in a strong position...the russians are getting big...we gotta get big too!...a quarter of americans are german...hmmm seems like maybe everyone is about the same...and everyone has this great idea to identify the baddies...and kill 'em...some of 'em, just stick 'em in prisons and torture 'em is there a better idea? well, we could just let 'em take us over...maybe if we are good, and dont fight 'em, they wont be worse than the bosses we've got...if they exterminate us, well...too bad, we'll take the chance...like the redindians, i mean, native americans...like the aztecs well, we could just conquer them economically...like the americans in south america and elsewhere...like the japanese, after they had their weapons taken off them...but then they might get mad and decide to fight...like the germans after being economically eroded by england before ww1...britannia rules the waves...in order to plunder the world better...but then the plundered got mad and eroded the british empire well, we could stop eroding anyone economically...just do our own work, and take our own earnings...make sure no one is going to get mad from having to do our work for us...pay for 100 hours' work is at present ranging from $1 to $1,000,000,000 - 90% of people paid between a 10th and a 1000th of the world average hourly payrate...1% paid between the average and 1,000,000 times the average...mmmmmmm...we'd have our work cut out there...maybe make a start?...limit overpay to say 1000 times the average?...that would only affect the superoverpaid, maybe 0.0001% of people, and it could go to make the most underpaid, overworked, most enslaved, less mad...so they wouldnt think we were bad, and attack us...using funding from the superrich who suck money off us, using the power we gave them by allowing limitless superoverpay...the tobin tax, tax a tiny bit off the ones who make millions a day?...the nation or globe based on injustice cannot stand, will fight itself to death...have we got injustice?...can we measure injustice so's we can avoid it, so we can avoid having groups who feel threatened and get to thinking we are bad and get up to kill us?...mmmmmmm well, i guess you could say that in fact no one can work more than twice as hard as the average person, because the average person works 50 hours a week [housewives work an average of 70 hours a week, the third world longer, and from a younger age] and no one can work more than about 100 hours a week, so if you wanted to be really really extreme and ridiculous about this justice idea, you could limit pay to [ridiculous!] twice the world average pay [of US$15 an hour if you pay housewives/homemakers and students as well, so the two-adult family working average hard will get $75,000 a year - every family in the world get $75,000 a year! - boy, think of all the people who could afford to go to university and contribute to world knowledge - knowledge would grow 10 times faster - and think: 10 times as many customers for all goods! world markets 10 times bigger! world war costs way down! nah...let's stick to the good ol' ways, and grow bigger and bigger and bigger weapons so's WE win...peace would be boring...grab, and loot and kill and be killed...yay!...forever...or...at least, until the bombs are big enough to destroy the planet...eh?...oh yeah...that's a long ways off, tho...the bombs we got now can only destroy all life 60 times over...and no one's gunna use those...except maybe those evil terrorists yeah, unlimited overpay [hell, overpay at present is only $10,000,000 an hour] so's a few have unlimited power so they can protect us and enslave us and... the league of nations, the proto united nations, was founded because armaments firms were fomenting wars to sell arms...what was driving the armaments firms?...the golden vision of unlimited overpay...unlimited overpower the more overpaid you are, the more underpaid you have made others...so the more people who think you are bad...so the more your wars cost...so, the quicker you get poor, and conquered...like the british empire...like the whites in south africa...like the spanish empire before that...the roman empire...every empire full satisfaction [what the rolling stones couldnt get] comes from moderation...in overpay and underpay...you can do a lot with $75,000 a year, cant you?...expecially if social costs, welfare, immigration control, airport security, defense costs are way down...hell, the cia, most of the bureaufatcrats, could do productive work, like you and me - have real lives, not having to worry about where the next enemy is going to pop up from

by **wordspeak** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 10:37 pm

shem, your rant had nothing to do with richard heinberg. can we please stay on topic.

by **shem** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 12:13 am

you really dont get it, do you? - you genuinely dont get it - and i thought i wrote it real fine - im disappointed, im genuinely disappointed - i wonder how many others wont get it - i really really hope some - maybe all the others get it - maybe they dont care to try to get it - they dont see the importance, they are going too fast to catch it, even to catch how important it is [if happiness, safety, and pleasure are important] - maybe they wont be able to get it easily, and they wont want to make a real effort - or maybe they will get it easily, as i imagined they would maybe a little more will help you identify the enemy and then you work to suppress 'em - y'all are trying to identify this richard as a baddie, and then you'll try to 'suppress' him and his mates, so he doesnt do bad things to nice people - maybe you decide to get as powerful as you can, so no one can ever mess with you, ever - but that involves stealing, which means enslaving, which means you make enemies, which means you do bad to yourself like shakespeare's king richard, or stalin, or hitler, or bush, or ceausescu, or all the kings of all time, and all the empires of all time - they get so paranoid, and so 'powerful', they just kill heaps, in the hope they will get free of enemies - but they make enemies by killing people, and then they get dumped on bigtime - you are focussing right down on this richard-nazi-aryan-hyperborean thing - but it aint new, it's what everyone has been doing for 1000s of years - distilling the poison, concentrating the hatred pull back, get some perspective, see the whole battlefield for a moment - not for me, for you, your life, your happiness, your peace, your enjoyment, your chilren - find out that someone or something is bad and kill 'em or it - everybody is discovering that everybody else is bad and killing 'em - everybody is getting killed - getting attacked when everybody is trying to get to the top of the stack, everybody is getting squashed by the whole heap, everyone is falling off the top of the heap pulled down by all those below - from richest to poorest - the only ones not getting pulled down at, are the poorest, and they are being squashed ['oppressed'] the most - the only ones not being squashed are the ones at the top, and they are being pulled down at, the most - the ones in the middle, a mixture of both we can all stand on the ground, no one getting squashed, no one getting pulled down - we are all doing enough work to give every family US$75,000 a year [more or less as they work more or less than the world average amount of work] - there are one billion families, world income is US$75,000 billion if you have 1000 sweets and 100 children, you can have every kid fighting every other kid endlessly to get as many as they can, and each individual having from 0 to 1000 sweets at different times - and no time off from the fight to enjoy them and no friendship or trust - or everyone friends and everyone with 10 sweets [US$75,000 a year!]and all the time in the world to enjoy them if you have 100 people and 100 meals per mealtime... is it that you cant understand or is it that you want to not understand so you can continue being squashed by all those above and pulled down by all those below - if the latter, you are bad, arent you? that is, stupid, dumb, crazy, your own worst enemy and the enemy of good if it is that you cant understand, you will strive to understand - if you cant understand and you dont strive to understand, you are malicious to yourself and others, because you want to go on killing and being killed, and others to go on killing and being killed if you can understand and you refuse to understand because you want to go on towards identifying and hating and killing this richard enemy group - if you want an excuse so you can go and hate and kill because hating and killing is just so much fun... if you just want to have a little 'harmless' fun theoretically identifying this group as baddies and thinking about suppressing them somehow and talking while the fire of conflict grows up your back... if you are impolite back to me it will be a sure sign you are not sincere about wanting good for yourself and others - it will be a sure sign you do not know you are suffering terribly, and unnecessarily, and that you do not care that you are suffering terribly and unnecessarily what freedoms have you sold to keep your job? who is trying to get your job? how much does fear of losing your job eat at your guts? how much charity did you have to refuse because it would weaken your own position? how do you like the unnecessary endless escalating strugglestrugglestruggle?

by **veritas** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 12:40 am

Without discernment there is only noise. Killing? No. Discerning? Yes. Join us?

by **shem** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:19 am

you-all are getting ready for a pre-emptive strike - you're not just stiffening the sinews, oiling the gun and keeping a watch out in case they start any trouble, and giving as good as you get when you get attacked - youre making yourself believe these people are badbadbad, so it'll be goodgoodgood to go in and eliminate them - the harder and the sooner, the better - what do you think bush is doing? - he reads all this bad-ass terrorist stuff coming in and makes up his mind to show these bad-ass people what we can do - so he kills millions of innocent people - because the more bad-ass they are, the more they hide, and the harder it is to find them and hit them - so you hit whatever you can, just to show the bad-ass people what would happen to them if we could find them - the bosses are in bunkers when the metal's in the air - didnt you know? - the innocent dont hide, they get the metal so this richard etc is doing a genghis-khan, a napoleon, a hitler, an alexander-the-great, a cecil-rhodes, a robber-baron, a rockefeller, a ford, a morgan, a george-pullman, an every-empire-builder-in-the-history-of-the-world, an every-millionaire-on-wall-street move - an every-aluminum-siding-salesman-on-main-street move - is anybody making sure they are not getting overpaid? - or are we most-all taking everything we get? who are the good? probably the ones practising the virtues, justice, moderation, and good sense - or, rather, justice/moderation/goodsense, for they are all one - they are the ones not doing any harm, and are therefore reaping less of the whirlwind than most, on the whole if an objective, wise, impartial panel determined you were bad, would you kill yourself? - i think not - so why have a double standard for others? - because to say someone else is bad makes you good, in your selfdelusion, and it feels good to know you are good - and all you have to do is go out and kill some people you have determined are bad - but maybe you are not perfectly wellinformed - who can be? - and perhaps you are not perfectly impartial - maybe you imagine evil by using the knowledge of the evil in you - projection - the more evil in us, the more the need to project it out and get free of the strain of it being inside - so the ones who see most evil are most evil, like hitler - the worse a person was, the harder it would be to have correct judgement, but the more likely it would be that they would make judgements you are saying these people are bad, or you are moving towards saying that - if someone said you were bad, would you feel justified in hitting out at them? - yes, so why do you think you can decide and say someone is bad and yet be entitled to not being hit out at? - in that bad group there will be a range of badness-goodness - how will you shoot them all different degrees? injustice is bad, this planet has superhyperextreme injustice - so who is good? who is moderate, sensible, just, happy? you-all are un-disapproving of a game, and participating in a game, that means strugglestrugglestrugglefearpainsufferingsquashsquashstrugglestruBOOM! for everyone - are you bad? is pursuit of happiness an inalienable DUTY? the only duty? no happiness without realism - happiness is realitybased - no happiness is unreal - no unreality is happiness - one who warns you is a friend - only the truth hurts - were you ever offended by something someone said about you that you knew was totally not true? as much as by something that was a little bit true? it's no odds to me - i go back to the planet zircon when my tour of duty here is over - i dont have to hang around - hell, i can make another planet - im god - but you - id think you-all'd be more careful of your little planet, since youve got no way to get off it no one has the right to talk to you like this? - so, no one has the right to talk to you like this - nor to hitler, but it would have saved him from the bunker dont think of me - think: is it the truth? - will it still be here when shem is gone? - will it still seep out of your tv, will it still speak in your street?

by **Rigorous Intuition** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 3:18 am

Given the importance of this thread, I've copied it to the Data Dump and culled it of posts which do not carry the topic forward (which boils it down to a single page). It can be found <a href="http://p216.ezboard.com/frigorousintuitionfrm9.showMessage?topicID=67.topic">here</a>. To avoid confusion, until the original conversation in this thread has run its course, I'm keeping the Data Dump thread locked.

by **AnnaLivia** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 3:33 am

fixed windows for my mom, then daughter got sick. i'm back tomorrow. and, shem-my-angel, not until this universe dies do i stop loving you for one minute under the day and night skies you painted with love for me, but dang it all, sugar...

by **shem** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 3:49 am

actually, no - i dont think we're going to save this planet - or, rather, i dont think we're going to save the humans on this planet - ive had a quick vote around the mothership and the vote is 90% in favour of not saving the humans - sorry - i thought till just now, okay, we will defuse their little bombs, and talk sense to them till they get it, but i think now, they aint gonna get it noway nowhen nohow - you may think this is hard, or presumptuous of me, or arrogant, but im the commander of this project and i dont see the tribunal at home disagreeing with my decision - i mean, you humans must be 100 times worse than anything else in the universe - 1000 times - no, probably 1,000,000 times worse - in fact the worst thing i can think of any other palnet - palnet! i like it! - doing is not giving a stranger a very good person to sleep with, the first night, and really that's just a tease - it isnt very nice maybe - oh, and there was that planet where they used to pelt strangers with marshmallows, but they dont do that now - but you guys - torture and childbattering and kicking babies heads off and starving millions a year to death and blowing people's legs off and sex slavery for millions of girls and burning people alive - and the battles - ive watched the battles, ive watched the tortures, as part of understanding you - but i still hoped - but somehow it all gelled for me just this minute - i mean, if you had a dog that was eating itself, tearing great chunks out of itself, you'd put it down, wouldnt you - and the more you loved that dog, the faster youd put it down - so, you see, it would be bad of me to let yourselves go tearing yourselves to pieces - this planet will make a nice zoo - there's some marvellous creatures here - and once its cleaned up, it'll be a great place to bring the kids - i dont know where you get it from, i dont - none of the other animals on this planet are in the least bit like you lot - sorry - bye

by **anotherdrew** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 6:22 am

sorry for carying-on like this everyone but... now wait just a minute you! Walking away is no answer. putting down a mad dog is one thing, but even we try to have hospitals for people and animals. I get where you're coming from and agree on the whole stop the conflict thing, but it's been really hard to get people to go along with it. Sometimes it seems the only way to stop the conflict is to attack the ones seeming to fan it's flames, but that leads to catch-22 as you point out. Perhaps a better strategy is out-there but it's what we're working with at the momenet; trying to identify the trouble makers and shut their misleading lies down (although in this case I don't really have an opinon yet on heinberg due to lack of looking into yet) by warning others. Maybe we just need a little longer in the evolutionary oven. I don't know but anyway at least take some of us with you, please? I'll volunteer too. hey, Isn't that first long piece up somewhere else on the web?

Richard Heinberg Openly Supports White Separatist

understanding

connections

understanding

heinberg

more

Re: more

summing up [in the middle]

Re: summing up [in the middle]

oh, dear

noise

easystreet and what weve got

FYI,

way cool, jeff, and thanks

goodbye

Re: goodbye [wait come back shem]

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