Hitler: Jewish Lizard or Goy Boy Toy of the Hoi Polloi???

by **Dreams End** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:45 am

How the hell did I get into this. Oh, I remember. Omega man started a great thread about MKUltra. Admittedly, the actual derivation of the "MK" is not the main interest for me...but good stuff. Then someone comes on with what seemed to be a very irrelevant "hey, did you know that Hitler was Rothschild's bastard son?" While the nonsequitur police failed to arrive, I pointed out that this is the sort of theory bounced around in rightwing conspiracy circles which ultimately is used to "prove" that Hitler and the Nazis were merely tools of the Rothschilds who started the Holocaust in order to justify their "takeover" of Israel and, by extension, the Middle East. This theory is clearly laid out by David Icke, among others..but does not originate with him. Except for the part about how Rothschilds are really shapeshifting aliens. We'll give him creativity points on that one. While the original assertion about the Hitler/Rothschild connection is the point of this post, I once again plead for folks interested in exposing real conspiracies to be aware of the history of rightwing conspiracy theory...as it...at the very least, obfuscates important truths. But what of this Rothschild and Hitler connection. The assertion is that Hitler's grandmother worked as a servant for a Rothschild, became pregnant by him and thus was born Hitler's daddy. The evidence rests entirely on the assertions of two people. One is Fritz Thyssen, a name that should set off all kinds of bells. The other is allegedly a Nazi Gestapo agent who wrote a book about being inside the Gestapo and confirmed that Hitler was Jewish via Rothschild parentage. I suppose we are meant to assume that he was an EX Gestapo agent as such things were likely frowned upon by Der fuerher. Thyssen is a name that is likely known around here. German industrialist who backed Hitler as the only hope for Germany's salvation. He was very rich and powerful and basically bankrolled the Nazi party and the German war machine was created in large part with his company's steel, with the aid of Prescott Bush in the US. He broke with Hitler...allegedly because Hitler went beyond going after leftists and Jews and started in on Christians. Bad move, as Thyssen was a Catholic. First, from what I can tell, here is the quote "heard round the world": <blockquote>Quote:<hr> There is a great deal of confusion in studying Hitler's family tree. Much of this is due to the fact that the name has been spelled in various ways: Hitler, Hidler, Hiedler and Huettler. It seems reasonable to suppose, however, that it is fundamentally the same name spelled in various ways by different members of what was basically an illiterate peasant family. Adolph Hitler himself signed his name Hittler on the first party membership blanks, and his sister at the present time spells her name Hiedler. Another element of confusion is introduced by the fact that Adolph's mother's mother was also named Hitler which later became the family name of his father. Some of this confusion is dissipated, however, when we realize that Adolph' s parents had a common ancestor (father's grandfather and mother's great-grandfather), an inhabitant of the culturally bakcward [sic] Waldviertel district of Austria. Adolph's father, Alois Hitler, was the illegitimate son of Maria Anna Schicklgruber. It is generally supposed that the father of Alois Hitler was a Johann Georg Hiedler, a miller's assistant. Alois, however, was not legitimized, and bore his mother's name until he was forty years of age when he changed it to Hitler. Just why this was done is not clear, but it is generally said among the villagers that it was necessary in order to obtain a legacy. Where the legacy came from is unknown. One could suppose that Johann Georg Hiedler relented on his deathbed and left an inheritance to his illegitimate son together with his name. However, it is not clear why he did not legitimise the son when he fineally married the mother thirty-five years earlier. Why the son chose to take the name Hitler instead of Hiedler, if this is the case, is a mystery which remains unsolved. Unfortunately, the date of the death of Hiedler has not been established and consequently we are unable to relate these two events in time. A peculiar series of events prior to Hitler's birth leaves plenty of room for speculation. There are some people who seriously doubt that Johann Georg Hiedler was the father of Alois. Thyssen and Koehler, for example, claim that Chancellor Dollfuss had ordered the Austrian police to conduct a thorough investigation into the Hitler family. As a result of this investigation a secret document was prepared which proved that Maria Anna Schicklgruber was living in Vienna at the time she conceived. At that time she was employed as a servant in the home of Baron Rothschild. As soon as the family [Page 95] discovered her pregnancy she was sent back to her home in Spital where Alois was born. If it is true that one of the Rothschilds is the real father of Alois Hitler, it would make Adolph a quarter Jew. According to these sources, Adolph Hitler knew of the existence of this document and the incriminating evidence it contained. In order to obtain it he precipitated events in Austria and initiated the assassination of Dollfuss. According to this story, he failed to obtain the document at that time, since Dollfuss had secreted it and, had told Schuschnigg of its whereabouts so that in the event of his death the independence of Austria would remain assured. Several stories of this general character are in circulation. Those who lend credence to this story point out several factors which seem to favor its plausibility: (a) That it is unlikely that the miller's assistant in a small village in this district would have very much to leave in the form of a legacy. (b) That it is strange that Johann Hiedler should not claim the boy until thirty-five years after he had married the mother and the mother had died. (c) That if the legacy were left by Hiedler on the condition that Alois take his name, it would not have been possible for him to change it to Hitler. (d) That the intelligence and behavior of Alois, as well as that of his two sons, is completely out of keeping with that usually found in Austrian peasant families. They point out that [Page 96] their ambitiousness and extraordinary political intuition is much more in harmony with the Rothschild tradition. (e) That Alois Schicklgruber left his home village at an early age to seek his fortune in Vienna where his mother had worked (f) That it would be peculiar for Alois Hitler, while working as a customs official in Braunau, should choose a Jew named Prinz, of Vienna, to act as Adolph's godfather unless he felt some kinship with the Jews himself. This is certainly a very intriguing hypothesis and much of Adolph's later behavior could be explained in rather easy terms on this basis. However, it is not absolutely necessary to assume that he had Jewish blood in his veins in order to make a comprehensive picture of his character with its manifoid traits and sentiments. From a purely scientific point of view, therefore, it is sounder not to base our reconstruction on such slim evidence but to seek firmer foundations. Nevertheless, we can leave it as a possibility which requires further verification. <hr></blockquote> While I can't find a non-paid site for Langer's 1972 book, <blockquote>Quote:<hr> The Mind of ADOLF HITLER THE SECRET WARTIME REPORT Walter C. Langer <hr></blockquote> I do have access to the full text on Questia. However, a nonpaid site has the contents of the original report itself, from which the above quote is taken. This is available here: <a href="http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/h/hitler-adolf/oss-papers/text/profile-index.html">www.nizkor.org/hweb/peopl...index.html</a> and was called <blockquote>Quote:<hr>A Psychological Analysis of Adolph Hitler His Life and Legend Walter C. Langer Office of Strategic Services Washington, D.C.<hr></blockquote> Before we start in on Thyssen, whom Langer acknowledges is the main source of this story, we should look a bit closer at Langer's report. The first paragraph is actually a summary of a separate report by Henry Murray. Here is the way Murray wrote it: <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Some of the confusion that has arisen in regard to Hitler's forebears disappears as soon as we realize the name Hitler has been variously spelled - Hidler, Hiedler, Huettler - by different members of the same illiterate peasant family. Adolf Hitler's parents were both descended from one Hitler (father's grandfater and mother's great-grandfather), an inhabitant of the culturally backward Waldviertel district, Upper Austria. -----brief snip----- According to an inquiry ordered by the Austrian Chancellor, Dollfull, Maria Anne Schicklgruber became pregnant during her employment as a servant in a Jewish Viennese family. For this reason she was sent back to her home in the country. If this is true, Alois Hitler may have been half Jewish. The fact that he selected a Jew, Herr Prinz of Vienna, to be the godfather of his son Adolf, is in line with this hypothesis.<hr></blockquote> Where is Rotshchild? As far as I can tell, Langer was merely repeating this assertion as it was told to him...perhaps by Thyssen...it's not clear. However, we should remember that this report was prepared for the OSS as requested by William Donovan...who was the one in charge of psychological warfare. Langer says he doesn't know what was done with his report...but surely the idea of circulating such rumors about Hitler and his parentage occurred to Wild Bill. In the Afterword to the 1972 printing of this book, Robert G. L. Waite points out that there are factual errors in Langer's book: <blockquote>Quote:<hr>There are, as Langer suspected there would be, factual errors. And, in reading his pages, historians will no doubt indulge their professional penchant for pointing out mistakes. Here are a few, none of which strike me as being horrendous: Klara Hitler was buried on December 23 not December 24, 1907; Hitler had no taboo about beer, he drank a special low-alcoholic type, brewed especially for him in the Holzkirchen Brewery; he seldom used the Kehlstein retreat since he was frightened by elevator shafts; he did not have "long dirty fingernails": he scrubbed his hands often and compulsively; he never wore a Christ-like beard; his report cards in school were neither as good nor as bad as described here; he was never charged with perversion in the courts; his godfather was not a Jew; and he did not secretly admire Franklin Roosevelt.<hr></blockquote> I'm sorry I can't link to Questia directly. Anyway, notice toward the end "his godfather was a Jew." About the Rothschild story itself, Waite says: <blockquote>Quote:<hr> But even when Langer is mistaken and his guesses prove incorrect, he is often on the right track. Consider his hint that Hitler's grandfather might have been a Jew. There is no reason to believe the unlikely story told by Langer's informant that Hitler's grandmother Maria Anna Schicklgruber, a peasant woman in her forties from the Waldviertel of rural Austria, had had an intimate liaison with a Baron Rothschild in Vienna. But Hitler had worried that he might be blackmailed over a Jewish grandfather and ordered his private lawyer, Hans Frank, to investigate his paternal lineage. Frank did so and told the Fuehrer that his grandmother had become pregnant while working as a domestic servant in a Jewish household in Graz. 28 The facts of this matter are in dispute—and a very lengthy dispute it has been. The point of overriding psychological and historical importance is not whether it is true that Hitler had a Jewish grandfather; but whether he believed that it might be true. He did so believe and that fact shaped both his personality and his public policy.<hr></blockquote> Graz, as you may know, is some distance from Vienna, so even in the Langer book itself we have refutation of the Rothschild story, which he, himself had listed as shaky. Another point to note is that the purpose of even entertaining the Rothschild notion was how the idea of possibly being of Jewish forebears might have had on Hitler psychologically. But let's assume, just for the moment, that this "aspersion" on Hitler's character (which would have been devastating had it gotten out and Omega Man suggests an Austrian prime minister was assassinated because of his knowledge of it...(I don't find this theory to be well supported myself) was not a deliberate psyop by the "father of all psyops" whom Langer worked for...knowing all along that this was Donovan's primary interest. (Indeed, the first problem Langer worked on for Donovan was studying those "neurotics" who did not support the war in order to craft strategies to bring them around. Wonder where THOSE reports are?) Let's assume Langer was merely reporting what his source, likely Thyssen as Koehler's assertion was made in a book and is the only source mentioned, had told him. so who is Thyssen and would he make something like this. Oh...you can bet on that. Doesn't mean he DID make it up...one can't prove a negative, which I've shouted myself hoarse around here trying to remind folks...but let's have a look at this article, which is on John Loftus's website but is not by him. It's long...so it will be the entirety of my next post. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=dreamsend@rigorousintuition>Dreams End</A> at: 6/6/06 12:56 am

by **Dreams End** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:55 am

Hey there, fellow agents of the reptilian agenda. In order to continue to obscure the secret Jewish bloodlines which rule the earth, we continue our discussion of Hitler: Goy Boy Toy of the Hoi Polloi? Where were we. Oh yes. We'd found the primary reference to Hitler's Rothschildian "bloodline" in Langer's 1972 which itself is simply a release of a 1943 wartime OSS report authored by him. In that report he refers to the idea that Hitler MIGHT have been sired by a Rothschild. I have found two references upon which Langer relied. One is a book which I'm trying to learn more about...allegedly by a Gestapo insider. So we'll save that. But now, who is Fritz Thyssen, the German industrial magnate who was kind enough to drop this little thought bomb into the lap of the OSS? Here's a great article to learn more about Thyssen, his role in funding the Nazis, and his relations to the Bush family. Hey, if Bush and Hitler were both reptilians, at least this proves there is some factionalism among them. Lizard fight!!! <blockquote>Quote:<hr> Heir to the Holocaust originally published in Clamor Magazine by Toby Rogers ----------------snip----------------------------------------- But while President Bush publicly embraced the community of holocaust survivors in Washington last spring, he and his family have been keeping a secret from them for over 50 years about Prescott Bush, the president's grandfather. According to classified documents from Dutch intelligence and US government archives, President George W. Bush's grandfather, Prescott Bush made considerable profits off Auschwitz slave labor. In fact, President Bush himself is an heir to these profits from the holocaust which were placed in a blind trust in 1980 by his father, former president George Herbert Walker Bush. Throughout the Bush family's decades of public life, the American press has gone out of its way to overlook one historical fact - that through Union Banking Corporation (UBC), Prescott Bush, and his father-in-law, George Herbert Walker, along with German industrialist Fritz Thyssen, financed Adolf Hitler before and during World War II. It was first reported in 1994 by John Loftus and Mark Aarons in The Secret War Against the Jews: How Western Espionage Betrayed the Jewish People. The US government had known that many American companies were aiding Hitler, like Standard Oil, General Motors and Chase Bank, all of which was sanctioned after Pearl Harbor. But as The New York Times reporter Charles Higham later discovered, and published in his 1983 groundbreaking book, Trading With The Enemy; The Nazi American Money Plot 1933-1949, "the government smothered everything during and even after the war." Why? According to Higham, the US government believed "a public scandal ... would have drastically affected public morale, caused widespread strikes and perhaps provoked mutinies in the armed services." Higham claims the government thought "their trial and imprisonment would have made it impossible for the corporate boards to help the American war effort." However, Prescott Bush's banks were not just financing Hitler as previously reported. In fact, there was a distinct business link much deeper than Mr. Higham or Mr. Loftus knew at the time their books were published. A classified Dutch intelligence file which was leaked by a courageous Dutch intelligence officer, along with newly surfaced information from U.S. government archives, "confirms absolutely," John Loftus says, the direct links between Bush, Thyssen and genocide profits from Auschwitz. The business connections between Prescott Bush and Fritz Thyssen were more direct than what has been previously written. This new information reveals how Prescott Bush and UBC, which he managed directly, profited from the Holocaust. A case can be made that the inheritors of the Prescott Bush estate could be sued by survivors of the Holocaust and slave labor communities. To understand the complete picture of how Prescott Bush profited from the Holocaust, it is necessary to return to the year 1916, where it all began. Post World War I: Thyssen Empire On The Ropes By 1916, August Thyssen could see the writing on the wall. The "Great War" was spinning out of control, grinding away at Germany's resources and economy. The government was broke and his company, Thyssen & Co., with 50,000 German workers and annual production of 1,000,000 tons of steel and iron, was buckling under the war's pressure. As the main supplier of the German military, August Thyssen knew Germany would be defeated once the US entered the war. At 74, "King" August Thyssen knew he was also running out of time. His first born "prince" Friedrich (Fritz) Thyssen, had been groomed at the finest technical business schools in Europe and was destined to inherit his father's estimated $100,000,000 fortune and an industrial empire located at Muehhlheim on the Ruhr. In addition to Fritz, plans were also made for the second son Heinrich. At the outbreak of the war, Heinrich Thyssen discreetly changed his citizenship from German to Hungarian and married the Hungarian aristocrat Baroness Margrit Bornemisza de Kaszon. Soon Heinrich Thyssen switched his name to Baron Thyssen Bornemisza de Kaszon. Near the end of World War I, August Thyssen opened the Bank voor Handel en Scheepvaart in Rotterdam. The neutral Holland was the perfect location outside of Germany to launder assets from the August Thyssen Bank in Berlin when the financial demands of the Allied forces surfaced. But the war ended much sooner than even Thyssen calculated and what developed caught the "Rockefeller of the Ruhr" off guard. On November 10, 1918, German socialists took over Berlin. The following morning at 5 a.m., what was left of Germany surrendered to the Allies, officially ending World War I. "At the time of the Armistice and the signing of the Treaty of Versailles, my Father and I were deeply saddened by the spectacle of Germany's abject humiliation," Thyssen recalled later in his autobiography, I Paid Hitler. After the war, chaos descended on Germany as food ran short. Winter was looming over a starving nation when on Dec. 7, 1918, the socialist Spartacists League came knocking on the Thyssen Villa with armed militia. August and Fritz were arrested and dragged from jail to jail across Germany for four days. Along the way, they were lined up in staged executions designed to terrorize them. It worked. When released, the two Thyssens were horrified at the new political climate in their beloved Germany. They could not accept that Germany was responsible for its own demise. All Germany's problems, the Thyssens felt, "have almost always been due to foreigners." It was the Jews, he and many others believed, who were secretly behind the socialist movement across the globe. Meanwhile Fritz's younger brother Baron Thyssen Bornemisza de Kaszon moved to Rotterdam and became the principal owner of the Bank voor Handel en Scheepvaart. All the Thyssens needed now was an American branch. 1920s: The Business Ties That Bind Railroad baron E.H. Harriman's son Averell wanted nothing to do with railroads, so his father gave him an investment firm, W.A. Harriman & Company in New York City. E.H. hired the most qualified person in the country to run the operation, George Herbert Walker. Averell hired his little brother Edward Roland "Bunny" Harriman as a vice president. By 1920, George Herbert Walker had already built a fortune in Missouri. Walker, a charismatic former heavyweight boxing champion, was a human pit bull. He lived life to the fullest, owning mansions around the east coast and one of the most extravagant apartments in Manhattan. His hobbies were golf, hunting, drinking scotch and beating his sons to a pulp. Elsie Walker, one of Walker's grandchildren described Walker as a "tough old bastard" whose children had no love "for their father." He was also religious bigot who hated Catholics, although his parents raised him to be one. According to other sources, he also did not like Jews. In 1922, Averell Harriman traveled to Germany to set up a W.A. Harriman & Co. branch in Berlin. The Berlin branch was also run by Walker. While in Germany, he met with the Thyssen family for the first time. Harriman agreed to help the Thyssens with their plan for an American bank. The following year, a wounded Germany was growing sicker. The government had no solution and froze while Germany rotted from within. With widespread strikes and production at a near standstill, Fritz Thyssen later recalled, "We were at the worst time of the inflation. In Berlin the government was in distress. It was ruined financially. Authority was crumbling. In Saxony a communist government had been formed and the Red terror, organized by Max Hoelz, reigned through the countryside. The German Reich ... was now about to crumble." In October, 1923, an emotionally desperate Fritz Thyssen went to visit one of his and Germany's great military heroes, General Erich Ludendorff. During the 1918 socialist rule in Berlin, Ludendorff organized a military resistance against the socialists and the industrialists were in great debt to him. When Thyssen met with Ludendorff, they discussed Germany's economic collapse. Thyssen was apocalyptic, fearing the worst was yet to come. Ludendorff disagreed. "There is but one hope," Ludendorff said, "Adolph Hitler and the National Socialist party." Ludendorff respected Hitler immensely. "He is the only man who has any political sense." Ludendorff encouraged Thyssen to join the Nazi movement. "Go listen to him one day" he said to Thyssen. Thyssen followed General Ludendorff's advice and went to a number of meetings to hear Hitler speak. He became mesmerized by Hitler. "I realized his orator gifts and his ability to lead the masses. What impressed me most however was the order that reigned over his meetings, the almost military discipline of his followers." Thyssen arranged to meet privately with Hitler and Ludendorff in Munich. Hitler told Thyssen the Nazi movement was in financial trouble, it was not growing fast enough and was nationally irrelevant. Hitler needed as much money as possible to fight off the Communists/Jewish conspiracy against Europe. Hitler envisioned a fascist German monarchy with a nonunion, antilock national work force. Thyssen was overjoyed with the Nazi platform. He gave Hitler and Ludendorff 100,000 gold marks ($25,000) for the infant Nazi party. Others in the steel and coal industries soon followed Thyssen's lead, although none came close to matching him. Many business leaders in Germany supported Hitler's secret union-hating agenda. However, some donated because they feared they would be left out in the cold if he actually ever seized power. Most industry leaders gave up on Hitler after his failed coup in 1923. While Hitler spent a brief time in jail, the Thyssens, through the Bank voor Handel en Scheepvaart, opened the Union Banking Corporation in 1924. Union Banking Corporation Early in 1924, Hendrick J. Kouwenhoven, the managing director of Bank voor Handel en Scheepvaart, traveled to New York to meet with Walker and the Harriman brothers. Together, they established The Union Banking Corporation. The UBC's headquarters was located at the same 39 Broadway address as Harriman & Co. As the German economy recovered through the mid to late '20s, Walker and Harriman's firm sold over $50,000,000 worth of German bonds to American investors, who profited enormously from the economic boom in Germany. In 1926, August Thyssen died at the age of 84. Fritz was now in control of one of the largest industrial families in Europe. He quickly created the United Steel Works (USW), the biggest industrial conglomerate in German history. Thyssen hired Albert Volger, one of the Ruhr's most influential industrial directors, as director General of USW. Thyssen also brought Fredich Flick, another German family juggernaut, on board. Flick owned coal and steel industries throughout Germany and Poland and desperately wanted to invest into the Thyssen empire. One of the primary motivations for the Thyssen/Flick massive steel and coal merger was suppressing the new labor and socialist movements. That year in New York, George Walker decided to give his new son in law, Prescott Bush, a big break. Walker made Bush a vice president of Harriman & Co. Prescott's new office employed many of his classmates from his Yale class of 1917, including Roland Harriman and Knight Woolley. The three had been close friends at Yale and were all members of Skull and Bones, the mysterious on-campus secret society. Despite the upbeat fraternity atmosphere at Harriman & Co., it was also a place of hard work, and no one worked harder than Prescott Bush. In fact, Walker hired Bush to help him supervise the new Thyssen/Flick United Steel Works. One section of the USW empire was the Consolidated Silesian Steel Corporation and the Upper Silesian Coal and Steel Company located in the Silesian section of Poland. Thyssen and Flick paid Bush and Walker generously, but it was worth every dime. Their new business arrangement pleased them all financially, and the collective talents of all four men and their rapid success astonished the business world. In the meantime Hitler and the Nazi party were broke. Since the German economic recovery, members and donations had dried up, leaving the Nazi movement withering on the vine. In 1927, Hitler was desperate for cash; his party was slipping into debt. Hitler told his private secretary Rudolf Hess to shake down wealthy coal tycoon and Nazi sympathizer Emil Kirdorf. Kirdorf paid off Hitler's debt that year but the following year, he too had no money left to contribute. In 1928, Hitler had his eyes on the enormous Barlow Palace located in Briennerstrasse, the most aristocratic section of Munich. Hitler wanted to convert the palace into the Nazi national headquarters and change its name to the Brown House but it was out of his price range. Hitler told Hess to contact Thyssen. After hearing the Hess appeal, Thyssen felt it was time to give Hitler a second chance. Through the Bank voor Handel en Scheepvaart, Thyssen said he "placed Hess in possession of the required funds" to purchase and redesign the Palace. Thyssen later said the amount was about 250,000 marks but leading Nazis later claimed that just the re-molding cost over 800,000 marks (equivalent to $2 million today). Regardless of the cost, Hitler and Thyssen became close friends after the purchase of the Brown House. At the time, neither knew how influential that house was to become the following year when, in 1929, the great depression spread around the world. With the German economic recovery up in flames, Hitler knew there was going to be a line out the door of industrialists waiting to give him cash. 1930s: Hitler Rises - Thyssen/Bush Cash In Thyssen would later try to claim that his weekends with Hitler and Hess at his Rhineland castles were not personal but strictly business and that he did not approve of most of Hitler's ideas, but the well-known journalist R.G Waldeck, who spent time with Thyssen at a spa in the Black Forest, remembered quite differently. Waldeck said when he and Thyssen would walk through the cool Black Forest in 1929-30, Thyssen would tell Waldeck that he believed in Hitler. He spoke of Hitler "with warmth" and said the Nazis were "new men" that would make Germany strong again. With the depression bleeding Europe, Thyssen's financial support made Hitler's rise to power almost inevitable. The great depression also rocked Harriman & Co. The following year, Harriman & Co. merged with the London firm Brown/Shipley. Brown/Shipley kept its name, but Harriman & Co. changed its name to Brown Brothers, Harriman. The new firm moved to 59 Wall St. while UBC stayed at 39 Broadway. Averell Harriman and Prescott Bush reestablished a holding company called The Harriman 15 Corporation. One of the companies Harriman had held stock in was the Consolidated Silesian Steel Company. Two thirds of the company was owned by Friedrich Flick. The rest was owned by Harriman. In December 1931, Fritz Thyssen officially joined the Nazi party. When Thyssen joined the movement, the Nazi party was gaining critical mass around Germany. The charismatic speeches and persona of Hitler, the depression and the Thyssen's Bank voor Handel en Scheepvaart all contributed to Hitler's sudden rise in popularity with the German people. In September 1932, Thyssen invited a group of elite German industrial tycoons to his castle to meet with Hitler. They spent hours questioning Hitler, who answered all their questions with the'"utmost satisfaction," Thyssen remembered. The money poured in from the industrial circles mostly due to Hitler's "monarchistic attitude" towards labor and issues of class. But by November, German voters grew weary of Hitler's antidemocratic tendencies and turned to the Communist party, which gained the most seats in the fall election. The Nazis lost a sweeping 35 seats in the Reichstag, but since the Nazis were already secretly negotiating a power sharing alliance with Hindenberg that would ultimately lead to Hitler declaring himself dictator, the outcry of German voters was politically insignificant. By 1934, Hindenberg was dead and Hitler completely controlled Germany. In March, Hitler announced his plans for a vast new highway system. He wanted to connect the entire Reich with an unprecedented wide road design, especially around major ports. Hitler wanted to bring down unemployment but, more importantly, needed the new roads for speedy military maneuvers. Hitler also wanted to seriously upgrade Germany's military machine. Hitler ordered a'"rebirth of the German army" and contracted Thyssen and United Steel Works for the overhaul. Thyssen's steel empire was the cold steel heart of the new Nazi war machine that led the way to World War II, killing millions across Europe. Thyssen's and Flick's profits soared into the hundreds of millions in 1934 and the Bank voor Handel en Scheepvaart and UBC in New York were overflowingwith money. Prescott Bush became managing director of UBC and handled the day-to-day operations of the new German economic plan. Bush's shares in UBC peaked with Hitler's new German order. But while production rose, cronyism did as well. On March 19, 1934, Prescott Bush handed Averell Harriman a copy of that day's New York Times. The Polish government was applying to take over Consolidated Silesian Steel Corporation and Upper Silesian Coal and Steel Company from'"German and American interests" because of rampant "mismanagement, excessive borrowing, fictitious bookkeeping and gambling in securities." The Polish government required the owners of the company, which accounted for over 45% of Poland's steel production, to pay at least its full share of back taxes. Bush and Harriman would eventually hire attorney John Foster Dulles to help cover up any improprieties that might arise under investigative scrutiny. Hitler's invasion of Poland in 1939 ended the debate about Consolidated Silesian Steel Corporation and Upper Silesian Coal and Steel Company. The Nazis knocked the Polish Government off Thyssen, Flick and Harriman's steel company and were planning to replace the paid workers. Originally Hitler promised Stalin they would share Poland and use Soviet prisoners as slaves in Polish factories. Hitler's promise never actually materialized and he eventually invaded Russia. 1940s: Business As Usual Consolidated Silesian Steel Corporation was located near the Polish town of Oswiecim, one of Poland's richest mineral regions. That was where Hitler set up the Auschwitz concentration camp. When the plan to work Soviet prisoners fell through, the Nazis transferred Jews, communists, gypsies and other minority populations to the camp. The prisoners of Auschwitz who were able to work were shipped to 30 different companies. One of the companies was the vast Consolidated Silesian Steel Corporation. "Nobody's made the connection before between Consolidated Silesian Steel Corporation, Auschwitz and Prescott Bush," John Loftus told Clamor. "That was the reason why Auschwitz was built there. The coal deposits could be processed into either coal or additives for aviation gasoline." Even though Thyssen and Flick's Consolidated Steel was in their possession, Hitler's invasions across Europe spooked them, bringing back memories of World War I. Thyssen and Flick sold Consolidated Steel to UBC. Under the complete control of Harriman and management of Bush, the company became Silesian American Corporation which became part of UBC and Harriman's portfolio of 15 corporations. Thyssen quickly moved to Switzerland and later France to hide from the terror about to be unleashed by the Nazi war machine he had helped build. A portion of the slave labor force in Poland was "managed by Prescott Bush," according to a Dutch intelligence agent. In 1941, slave labor had become the lifeblood of the Nazi war machine. The resources of Poland's rich steel and coal field played an essential part in Hitler's invasion of Europe. According to Higham, Hitler and the Fraternity of American businessmen "not only sought a continuing alliance of interests for the duration of World War II, but supported the idea of a negotiated peace with Germany that would bar any reorganization of Europe along liberal lines. It would leave as its residue a police state that would place the Fraternity in postwar possession of financial, industrial, and political autonomy." Six days after Pearl Harbor and the US declaration of war at the end of 1941, President Franklin D. Roosevelt, Secretary of the Treasury Henry Morgenthau and US Attorney General Francis Biddle signed the Trading With the Enemy Act, which banned any business interests with US enemies of war. Prescott Bush continued with business as usual, aiding the Nazi invasion of Europe and supplying resources for weaponry that would eventually be turned on American solders in combat against Germany. On October 20, 1942, the U.S. government had had enough of Prescott Bush and his Nazi business arrangements with Thyssen. Over the summer, The New York Tribune had exposed Bush and Thyssen, whom the Tribune dubbed "Hitler's Angel." When the US government saw UBC's books, they found out that Bush's bank and its shareholders "are held for the benefit of ... members of the Thyssen family, [and] is property of nationals ... of a designated enemy country." The list of seven UBC share holders was: E. Roland Harriman - 3991 shares Cornelis Lievense - 4 shares Harold D.Pennington - 1 share Ray Morris-- 1 share Prescott S. Bush - 1 share H.J. Kouwenhoven - 1 share Johann G. Groeninger - 1 share. The UBC books also revealed the myriad of money and holding companies funneled from the Thyssens and the government realized UBC was just the tip of the iceberg. On November 17, 1942, The US government also took over the Silesian American Corporation, but did not prosecute Bush for the reasons Higham noted earlier. The companies were allowed to operate within the Government Alien Property custodian office with a catch - no aiding the Nazis. In 1943, while still owning his stock, Prescott Bush resigned from UBC and even helped raise money for dozens of war-related causes as chairman of the National War Fund. After the war, the Dutch government began investigating the whereabouts of some jewelry of the Dutch royal family that was stolen by the Nazis. They started looking into books of the Bank voor Handel en Scheepvaart. When they discovered the transaction papers of the Silesian American Corporation, they began asking the bank manager H.J. Kounhoven a lot of questions. Kouwenhoven was shocked at the discovery and soon traveled to New York to inform Prescott Bush. According to Dutch intelligence, Kouwenhoven met with Prescott soon after Christmas, 1947. Two weeks later, Kouwenhoven apparently died of a heart attack. 1950s: Bush Sells UBC Stock By 1948, Fritz Thyssen's life was in ruins. After being jailed by the Nazis, he was jailed by the Allies and interrogated extensively, but not completely, by US investigators. Thyssen and Flick were ordered to pay reparations and served time in prison for their atrocious crimes against humanity. On February 8, 1951, Fritz Thyssen died bitterly in Argentina at the age of 78. Thyssen was angry at the way he was treated by Europe after the war and how history would remember him as Hitler's most important and prominent financier. When Thyssen died, the Alien Property Custodian released the assets of the Union Banking Corporation to Brown Brothers Harriman. The remaining stockholders cashed in their stocks and quietly liquidated the rest of UBC's blood money. Prescott Bush received $1.5 million for his share in UBC. That money enabled Bush to help his son, George Herbert Walker Bush, to set up his first royalty firm, Overby Development Company, that same year. It was also helpful when Prescott Bush left the business world to enter the public arena in 1952 with a successful senatorial campaign in Connecticut. On October 8th, 1972, Prescott Bush died of cancer and his will was enacted soon after. In 1980, when George H.W. Bush was elected vice president, he placed his father's family inherence in a blind trust. The trust was managed by his old friend and quail hunting partner, William "Stamps" Farish III. Bush's choice of Farish to manage the family wealth is quite revealing in that it demonstrates that the former president might know exactly where some of his inheritance originated. Farish's grandfather, William Farish Jr., on March 25th, 1942, pleaded "no contest" to conspiring with Nazi Germany while president of Standard Oil in New Jersey. He was described by Senator Harry Truman in public of approaching "treason" for profiting off the Nazi war machine. Standard Oil, invested millions in IG Farben, who opened a gasoline factory within Auschwitz in 1940. The billions "Stamps" inherited had more blood on it then Bush, so the paper trail of UBC stock would be safe during his 12 years in presidential politics. It has been 60 years since one of the great money laundering scandals of the 20th century ended and only now are we beginning to see the true historical aspects of this important period of world history, a history that the remaining Holocaust survivors beg humanity to "never forget." Loftus believes history will view Prescott Bush as harshly as Thyssen. "It is bad enough that the Bush family helped raise the money for Thyssen to give Hitler his start in the 1920s, but giving aid and comfort to the enemy in time of war is treason. The Bush bank helped the Thyssens make the Nazi steel that killed Allied solders. As bad as financing the Nazi war machine may seem, aiding and abetting the Holocaust was worse. Thyssen's coal mines used Jewish slaves as if they were disposable chemicals. There are six million skeletons in the Thyssen family closet, and a myriad of criminal and historical questions to be answered about the Bush family's complicity." There is no question that the Bush family needs to donate at least $1.5 million to the proper holocaust reparation fund. Since Prescott Bush is dead, the only way to compensate is for the main inheritors of his estate to make amends with surviving slaves and the families of slaves who died in Bush and Thyssen's coal mines. If the Bush family refuses to contribute the money to compensate for Prescott Bush's involvement in the Holocaust, it is like denying the Holocaust itself and their role in one of the darkest moments in world history. Special thanks to John Loftus, Emmy winning journalist, author and current president of the Florida Holocaust Museum. <hr></blockquote> <a href="http://www.john-loftus.com/Thyssen.asp">www.john-loftus.com/Thyssen.asp</a> It seems to me that the fact that this little historical gem about Rothschild comes from Thyssen via the OSS should be a real red flag to anyone paying attention. More in awhile. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=dreamsend@rigorousintuition>Dreams End</A> at: 6/6/06 1:06 am

by **Hugh Manatee Wins** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 3:54 am

The Anti-Defamation League is covering for Prescott Bush. <a href="http://www.adl.org/Internet_Rumors/Archive.htm">www.adl.org/Internet_Rumors/Archive.htm</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Debunking Internet Rumors Prescott Bush's Alleged Nazi "Ties", 12/16/03 Rumors about the alleged Nazi "ties" of the late Prescott Bush, the grandfather of President George W. Bush, are untenable and politically motivated.<hr></blockquote> <a href="http://www.adl.org/Internet_Rumors/prescott.htm">www.adl.org/Internet_Rumors/prescott.htm</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Prescott Bush's Alleged Nazi "Ties" Tuesday, December 16, 2003 Rumors about the alleged Nazi "ties" of the late Prescott Bush, the grandfather of President George W. Bush, have circulated widely through the Internet in recent years. These charges are untenable and politically motivated. Despite some early financial dealings between Prescott Bush and a Nazi industrialist named Fritz Thyssen (who was arrested by the Nazi regime in 1938 and imprisoned during the war), Prescott Bush was neither a Nazi nor a Nazi sympathizer.<hr></blockquote> Give a government weapons when it wants them and it will forget that you almost wiped them off the face of the planet, I guess. For the times, they are a changin'....

by **Dreams End** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 4:14 am

What about this other source. Hansjurgen Koehler's book "Inside the Gestapo."? Well, another book by the same title, Hitler's Enforcers: The Gestapo and the SS Security Service in the Nazi Revolution Book by George C. Browder; Oxford University Press, 1996 tells me in the footnotes and bibliography that a) the book exists and b) the author used a pseudonym. Koehler Hansjürgen [pseud.]. Inside the Gestapo. London: Pallas, 1940. -----. Inside Information. London: Pallas Publishing, 1940. And that is all I can find. It's not an easy book to get ahold of on or offline. Here is the quote from the book as reported by clear anti-Semite Clifford Shack: <blockquote>Quote:<hr> Consider the following excerpt from "Inside the Gestapo" a book written Hansjurgen Koehler who was at one time Hitler's bodyguard: " When Dolfuss became Chancellor of Austria, Hitler had been the cynosure of the world's interest for a considerable time, yet strangely enough little was known about him. Nobody could explain how he came to bear the name Hitler, as his father had been called Schueckelgruber. Nobody knew how many brothers or sisters he had…the greatest mystery enveloped the Fuehrer's private life, family relations, origin. Chancellor Dolfuss started to investigate Hitler's secret. His task was not very difficult; as ruler of Austria he could easily find out about the personal data and family of Adolf Hitler, who had been born on Austrian soil. Through the original birth-certificates, police registration cards, protocols, etc., all contained in the original file, the Austrian Chancellor succeeded in piecing together the disjointed parts of the puzzle, creating a more or less logical entity. And there was one thing-whether true or not-which might have been a dangerous weapon in Dolfuss' hands. This was what he had ascertained: A little servant maid from Upper Austria called Matild Schueckelgruber came to Vienna and became a domestic servant, mostly working for rather rich families. But she was unlucky; having been seduced, she was about to bear a child. She went home to her village for her confinement. Her little son, being illegitimate, received his mother's name and was called Alois Schueckelgruber. (In some documents, Schickelgruber). Now followed the most important and perhaps most compromising piece of the Dolfuss " collection." I must repeat that I have no proof of its genuineness. It may have been manufactured as a fitting weapon against the Nazi chief, who was not squeamish about his own weapons. Certainly it was rather shattering in all its consequences. This document aimed at clearing up the great life tragedy of a small Upper Austrian maid-after more than sixty years. Matild Schueckelgruber, grandmother of Adolf Hitler, had come to Vienna to get a job. And there something happened to her which was a common thing in the great capital, and yet a private catastrophe; she was bearing a child under her heart; she had to go home to her village and face the disgrace. Where was the little maid serving in Vienna? This was not a very difficult problem. Very early Vienna had instituted the system of compulsory police registration. Both the servants and the employers were exposed to heavy fines if they neglected this duty. Chancellor Dolfuss managed to discover the registration card. The little, innocent maid had been a servant at the…Rothschild Mansion…and Hitler's unknown grandfather must be probably looked for in this magnificent house. The Dolfuss file stopped at this statement." <hr></blockquote> <a href="http://www.geocities.com/cliff_shack/FatalFile.html">www.geocities.com/cliff_s...lFile.html</a> The excerpt goes on to present a classic spy story. Our "hero" is tasked with stealing back a copy of these files. He never actually gets them. That's it. Those are our two sources for this rumor. Langer cites them for his assertion. Is the evidence strong enough to continue with this "Hitler was a Rothschild" meme, given the uses to which it has been put? Do you really trust Thyssen (who according to Anthony Sutton actually denied even writing the book, but he provides no source for this assertion) and a pseudonymous Gestapo agent, writing detailed information about secret Gestapo missions in 1940. I mean, maybe he wrote under a pseudonym but it's quite clear he's easily identifiable from the context: As he says: <blockquote>Quote:<hr> Only four living persons knew its contents-Schuschnigg, Mussolini, Heydrich, and myself.<hr></blockquote> So here is a Gestapo agent calling Hitler a Jew in 1940 and giving details that easily identify him? Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=dreamsend@rigorousintuition>Dreams End</A> at: 6/6/06 2:20 am

by **Dreams End** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 4:16 am

Hugh, you can add to the suspicion we should feel about this information coming from Donovan's OSS. Or do you trust them now?

by **Hugh Manatee Wins** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 4:57 am

Thanks for all the Thyssen info from Loftus plus back in the other thread. Nailing Prescott Bush is currently far more important to halting the Bush>CFR>CIA fascist family of 'little Eichmanns' (to borrow from Ward Churchill). I wouldn't use this - <blockquote>Quote:<hr>given the uses to which it has been put<hr></blockquote> as sole consideration for declaring the story false BUT the 1940 'Inside the Gestapo' sourcing certainly does match what OSS 'Moral Operations' would generate (more likely British intelligence in 1940 since OSS wasn't in full swing yet) to discredit Hitler and demonize him in the eyes of his followers, just as COINTELPRO ops do to their targets over the last 50 years. The story also perfectly matches the OSS's desired qualities of a good rumor. It should be on a topic of great concern to the target audience and be a mix of known things and unknown things which suggest a connection to the mind so they arrive at the false conclusion on their own. <a href="http://www.icdc.com/~paulwolf/oss/rumormanual2june1943.htm">www.icdc.com/~paulwolf/os...ne1943.htm</a> (Criteria of a Successful Rumor) This makes the Rothschild story extremely unlikely to me but without making it 'magic bullet' impossible. After all, any one remember Strom Thurmond's black love child? <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3321483.stm">news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3321483.stm</a> BBC NEWS | Americas | Thurmond 'has mixed race child' A shrink would say that Hitler was projecting his own shame, the proverbial 'self-hating jew.' Seems that model could work, too, and without going down the path of reinforcing the 'Jews are the NWO gang' theme. That's the envelope of possibility as I see it and as much truth as I can squeeze out.

by **albion** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:10 am

Thanks for being the non-sequitir police, DE. Great title, btw. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"> Came across this on Thyssen, can't comment too much as I haven't read the whole thing-- <blockquote>Quote:<hr>The same class has preserved through the ages, from the thirteenth century to our day, the same ambitions for unlimited conquest. This class and their ambitions have been hidden, at various points in Prussian history, behind different screens. Now this front is called "Hitler," as tomorrow it may be called "Goering," "von Papen," or "Thyssen." The men have changed through the ages but the forces controlling them and the methods employed have remained the same. We may add that Fritz von Thyssen's "flight" to Paris in April, 1940 was clearly designed to build up his prestige in the eyes of the Allies and to use him, if it becomes necessary to sacrifice Hitler, as a new front behind which the PrussoTeutonic game could be carried on. Indeed, in the beginning of the war, Germany's masters were somewhat uncertain about the results they might expect from Hitler's blitz technique. Thyssen's trip to Paris was decided upon in order to prepare for a new camouflage in case of an unsatisfactory outcome of the war.<hr></blockquote> Competing conspiracies...or just competing conspiracy theories? From a book called: <blockquote>Quote:<hr>The Thousand-Year Conspiracy - Secret Germany Behind the Mask Paul Winkler Charles Scribner’s Sons©1943 New York 381 pps. – First Edition – Out-of-print<hr></blockquote> Via a blog called <a href="http://boodleboys.blogspot.com/2006_03_01_boodleboys_archive.html">Boodle Boys</a> -- most likely a text conversion of a big PDF file put online by <a href="http://spitfirelist.com/Books/books.html">Dave Emory.</a>

by **Dreams End** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 10:45 am

albion it will take me many hours to get through all this. The emory link gets to full text versions of several really interesting looking books. This is just a treasure trove. I'm downloading every book that is linked here. They are all written during WW2 or just after (and out of copyright to boot!) Quote from "All Honorable Men" by James Stewart Martin: <blockquote>Quote:<hr> “The ecopolitical masters of Germany boosted Hitler and his program into the driver’s seat at a time when the tide in the political fight between the Nazis and the supporters of the Weimar Republic was swinging against the Nazis. All of the men who mattered in banking and industrial circles could quickly agree on one program and throw their financial weight behind it. Their support won the election for the Nazis. We must assume that the same thing is not yet true in the United States. We do have economic power so concentrated that it would lie in the power of not more than a hundred men—if they could agree among themselves—to throw the same kind of combined economic weight behind a single program. They have not agreed yet. . . .If the United States should run into serious economic difficulties, however, most of the conditions for a re-enactment of the German drama would already exist on the American stage. The slight differences within the camp of the fraternity then may be the only real barrier to the kind of integration of the financial and industrial community behind a single repressive program, like that which the financiers and industrialists of Germany executed through Hitler. Are we safe in assuming that it would take a grave economic crisis to precipitate the dangers inherent in economic concentration? The basic integration of the financial and industrial groups in the United States is evident when we look at the increase of concentration in the past few years. . . .” (All Honorable Men; James Stewart Martin; Copyright 1950 [HC]; Little, Brown & Co.; p. 295.) “ . . . The moral of this is not that Germany is an inevitable menace, but that there are forces in our own country which can make Germany a menace. And, more importantly, they could create a menace of their own here at home, not through a deliberate plot to bring about a political catastrophe but as a calm judgment of ‘business necessity.’ The men who would do this are not Nazis, but businessmen; not criminals, but honorable men. [This is the last paragraph of the book!—D.E.]” (Ibid.; p. 300.)<hr></blockquote> The "D.E." above is Dave emory's initials...not mine. I could be called things much worse than Dave Emory, but believe me, I'm not him. I've wondered if he stops in here from time to time...he's a fascinating guy. Only one putting out a lot of this sort of stuff, even if, as some think, he hits the "underground reich" theme too hard (not saying I agree with that...I really need to spend the summer getting to know his thought and his sources.) Anyway, the initial thing is just coincidence. I'm open to the idea that it's not totally just business...or that these interests developed or stumbled onto all kinds of occult interests or that such occult interests simply were the most suited sort of religion for these types...which would, I think, be along Jeff's thinking. But you can go a long way without that. There is such a wealth of material here...and so much better supported than this silly Hitler was a Rothschild business...and not only that, but even stipulating that Hitler WAS the illegitimate son of a Rothschild, I've never seen anyone try to prove that they then had influence over him. Royalty and the upper crust have always sired bastards. History is teeming with them...mostly forgotten men who would not inherit kingdoms or financial empires and always be relegated to the footnotes of History. Hitler, of course, got more than a footnote. But that this was as a result of the Rothschild's machinations...I've never even evidence of this...and I mean evidence, not "(insert name of financial institution or person) were agents of the Rothshchilds" thus expanding the definition of the term "Rothschild" beyond all possible usefulness. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=dreamsend@rigorousintuition>Dreams End</A> at: 6/6/06 10:07 am

by **sunny** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:37 am

DE, clarify what you're getting at. Was this rumor an OSS psy-ops they never got around to using? Certainly it was not very widely circulated at the time, do you not agree? I can see you are attempting to discredit some right-wing conspiracist who must blame everything on the Jews, but that is hardly necessary around here. (at least not with me) (At the same time, ADL defending Prescott Bush, whose bank was shut down under the Trading with the Enemy{Nazi's} Act, is just bizarre.) The Chancellor of Austria may have had a motive in uncovering, or manufacturing, such a rumor, wouldn't you agree? Perhaps OSS usurped his "work" for their own purposes, but they sure didn't use it very effectively, if the motive was to discredit Hitler among the majority of his suporters at the time.

by **Sepka** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:05 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Certainly it was not very widely circulated at the time, do you not agree?<hr></blockquote> I recall hearing that Hitler was part Jewish from my grandmother in 1968/69 or so, certainly no later than 1970 - my best guess is early 1969. IIRC, she seemed to feel that it was common knowledge. Where she heard it I have no idea (I just accepted it as a curious fact and didn't question it for years) but given that she had lived through the War, but had little to no interest in reading about it, I'm guessing she either heard it from Allied propaganda, or from one of her friends. -Sepka the Space Weasel

by **Dreams End** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:28 pm

Sunny, That it might have been a psyop should have contained the <speculation> tag. I don't know the motivations of all involved. Langer said that Thyssen said this about Hitler. Thyssen had a million reasons to want to separate himself from Hitler, ingratiate himself to the west etc, so it could just been a simple matter of Langer reporting what he heard. Indeed, while Langer's work was based on many interviews and while he cites Thyssen as a source, it's not clear to me that Langer did any more than read "I Paid Hitler". That Donovan was interested in psyops is obviously clear, and Langer's intro to his 1972 book makes it quite evident that he knew this quite explicitly. In fact, he says he first contacted Donovan with a letter complaining that psyops needed to be more than...well, here I'll quote it: <blockquote>Quote:<hr> About the seventh or eighth day of my hospital stay I read in the morning newspaper that a new agency to be known as Coordinator of Information had been created. Colonel William J. Donovan, commonly known as "Wild Bill" as a result of his exploits during World War I, was to be its head. One of the functions of the new agency, in addition to pooling the information gathered by all of our Intelligence Services, was to organize and conduct psychological warfare. It was the psychological warfare part that caught my attention. I had never concerned myself with the problem of psychological warfare, but I had served overseas during World War I and had been far from impressed with our blatant psychological warfare endeavors. Psychological warfare, it seemed to me, should be much more than a constant repetition of fabricated atrocity stories which are designed to prove that the enemy were all "bad guys" who had to be eliminated so we "good guys" could live in peace. Being in a foul mood and having nothing else to do, I brooded on the problem. The more I thought about the psychological warfare I had been exposed to during the previous war, the worse it seemed. There must be better ways of making use of this potentially powerful weapon, I thought. But how? I had no answer to this question but was convinced that, to be effective, a program should be imaginative, subtle, and daring. Instead of dwelling on superficial aspects, it should seek to exploit the unconscious and irrational forces which were far more potent. Since one of the primary functions of psychoanalysis is the exploration of these forces in individual cases, it appeared logical, to me, that it might be of value in working out an effective program. I did not know just how this might be done. Yet I felt that it deserved further investigation. <hr></blockquote> So, that's Langer speaking for himself. It is not necessary that such a rumor be circulated widely to do its work. One possibility would be to draft such a document and then "leak it" to someone of influence on the German side. The fact that ADL defends Prescott Bush is irrelevant to this discussion. Why they do so is not certain. They also have not put out any reports about Project Paperclip that I'm aware of. My assumption is that they are a conservative organization which enjoys many establishment ties and would like to keep those ties. But I'm not clear what this has to do with the veracity of the Rothschild myth. I simply cannot find a way to make this clear enough. If you read about the people financially backing Hitler...there's just so much "non-Rothschild stuff" that the importance people put on an unsubstantiated rumor about the Rothschild connection is simply irrational. In addition, the rumor morphs and is given more weight than it is due...and this happens precisely within the cryptofascist conspiracy world that uses it for its own ends, which is why the ends to which the rumor is put are important. These very ends, the desire to show that some secret Jewish (not really jewish but Khazars, etc) faction was secretly behind the Holocaust. If nothing else, please appreciate the irony here. The storyline about the Rothschilds as secret rulers of the world exactly mirrors the stories "supported" by th Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion, which Hitler (allegedly, in the Rothschild mythology, a tool for their evil plans) made CENTRAL to his own anti-Jewish conspiracy theory in Mein Kempf. But the vast majority of evidence simply points in other directions. Why is it, then, that people are so anxious to keep going back to Rothschilds? I maintain that it is the rabid right's use of these stories, especially in the age of the internet, which keep them alive and distract us from a very important understanding of history. Here this thread is tracking down a rumor started by Thyssen when Thyssen himself should be the object of study in every high school history class in the country.

by **slimmouse** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:45 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>if nothing else, please appreciate the irony here. The storyline about the Rothschilds as secret rulers of the world exactly mirrors the stories "supported" by th Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion, which Hitler (allegedly, in the Rothschild mythology, a tool for their evil plans) made CENTRAL to his own anti-Jewish conspiracy theory in Mein Kempf.<hr></blockquote> I can fully appreciate the Irony Dreams end. Mention the Rothschilds, or Icke, and your an antisemitic nutcase in your eyes. There is no bigger conspiracy is your belief, and for whatever reason, you seem determined to impress upon people both that very point, and the "Cryptofascist nature" of the ant in the living room, whilst the fascist elephant there continues to crush anything that moves. Do you not find it strange for instance, that about the only book you might find to get a worse review in America than Mein Kampf, would be Norman Finklesteins "The holocaust industry" ? <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/ohwell.gif ALT=":\"> If you want to talk about other peoples motives for saying this that or the other, I would suggest you think very carefully about how that might apply to yourself in the eyes of those others.

by **Dreams End** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:53 pm

slimmouse, can you even speak in anything other than generalizations? If it's not important to you whether the Rothschild legend is true or not, then don't read this thread. Instead, go read the books linked by Albion. There's your elephant. Rothschild isn't driving it and Icke isn't fighting it.

by **slimmouse** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:05 pm

As I see it, the only basic difference between our posts, is that whereas I usually present my message in 2 or 3 paragraphs, You seem to labour on for pages, before arriving at the same inevitable conclusions. And again, neither myself, Icke, or anyone with half a brain really gives a shit who these people are, because the whole religion deal is a sham anyway. And if you want proof of its ability to send people off on meaningless distracting tangents, you have actually posted about 10 pages of it on this thread alone. And finally the Elephant. I can see the fascist Elephant, make no mistake about that. It is busy blowing people up throughout the middle East. Its leaders are delivering speeches that Goebbels Goerhing and co would have been proud to coauthor. Ah, but thats leaning towards a grand conspiracy theory there isnt it ? And of course, there is no such thing is there ?>D

by **Dreams End** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:21 pm

guess not.

Hitler: Jewish Lizard or Goy Boy Toy of the Hoi Polloi???

Hitler: Jewish Lizard or Goy Boy Toy of the Hoi Polloi???

Re: Rothschild, Hitler, Thyssen, Prescott and me

Re: Rothschild, Hitler, Thyssen, Prescott and me

Re: Rothschild, Hitler, Thyssen, Prescott and me

Re: Rothschild, Hitler, Thyssen, Prescott and me

Re: Rothschild, Hitler, Thyssen, Prescott and me

Re: Hitler: Jewish Lizard or Goy Boy Toy of the Hoi Polloi?

Re: Hitler: Jewish Lizard or Goy Boy Toy of the Hoi Polloi?

Re: Hitler: Jewish Lizard or Goy Boy Toy of the Hoi Polloi?

Re: Hitler: Jewish Lizard or Goy Boy Toy of the Hoi Polloi?

Re: Hitler: Jewish Lizard or Goy Boy Toy of the Hoi Polloi?

Irony recognised.

Re: Irony recognised.

The only basic difference between our posts.

Re: The only basic difference between our posts.

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