Is this a hoax? DHS to require permission to enter and leave

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Is this a hoax? DHS to require permission to enter and leave

Postby pugzleyca3 » Sat Nov 04, 2006 7:11 am

This is a cached document I found this link to on another board. Anyone know about this? <br><br>Here's what was posted and then they linked it to this:<br><br><br>Forget no-fly lists. If Uncle Sam gets its way, beginning on Jan. 14,<br>2007, we'll all be on no-fly lists, unless the government gives us<br>permission to leave-or re-enter-the United States.<br><br>The U.S. Department of Homeland Security (HSA) has proposed that all<br>airlines, cruise lines-even fishing boats-be required to obtain<br>clearance for each passenger they propose taking into or out of the<br>United States.<br><br>It doesn't matter if you have a U.S. Passport - a "travel document"<br>that now, absent a court order to the contrary, gives you a virtually<br>unqualified right to enter or leave the United States, any time you<br>want. When the DHS system comes into effect next January, if the<br>agency says "no" to a clearance request, or doesn't answer the<br>request at all, you won't be permitted to enter-or leave-the United<br>States.<br><br>Consider what might happen if you're a U.S. passport holder on<br>assignment in a country like Saudi Arabia. Your visa is about to<br>expire, so you board your flight back to the United States. But wait!<br>You can't get on, because you don't have permission from the HSA.<br>Saudi immigration officials are on hand to escort you to a squalid<br>detention center, where you and others who are now effectively<br>"stateless persons" are detained, potentially indefinitely, until<br>their immigration status is sorted out.<br><br>Why might the HSA deny you permission to leave-or enter-the United<br>States? No one knows, because the entire clearance procedure would be<br>an administrative determination made secretly, with no right of<br>appeal. Naturally, the decision would be made without a warrant,<br>without probable cause and without even any particular degree of<br>suspicion. Basically, if the HSA decides it doesn't like you, you're<br>a prisoner - either outside, or inside, the United States, whether or<br>not you hold a U.S. passport.<br><br>The U.S. Supreme Court has long recognized there is a constitutional<br>right to travel internationally. Indeed, it has declared that the<br>right to travel is "a virtually unconditional personal right." The<br>United States has also signed treaties guaranteeing "freedom of<br>travel." So if these regulations do go into effect, you can expect a<br>lengthy court battle, both nationally and internationally.<br><br>Think this can't happen? Think again. It's ALREADY happening. Earlier<br>this year, HSA forbade airlines from transporting an 18-year-old a<br>native-born U.S. citizen, back to the United States. The prohibition<br>lasted nearly six months until it was finally lifted a few weeks ago.<br>Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union are two countries in recent history<br>that didn't allow their citizens to travel abroad without permission.<br>If these regulations go into effect, you can add the United States to<br>this list.<br><br><br><br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:MtiwJQ8pYiQJ:hasbrouck.org/IDP/IDP-APIS-comments.pdf+For+more+information+on+this+proposed+regulation,+see+http://hasbrouck.org/IDP/IDP-APIS-comments.pdf.&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1">72.14.253.104/search?q=ca...=clnk&cd=1</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Is this a hoax? DHS to require permission to enter and l

Postby 1 tal » Sat Nov 04, 2006 11:11 am

<br><br> Nope:<br><br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/02/AR2006110201810_pf.html">Washington Post</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>U.S. Plans to Screen All Who Enter, Leave Country<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em><br>Personal Data Will Be Cross-Checked With Terrorism Watch Lists; Risk Profiles to Be Stored for Y</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--></strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->[/i]<br><br>By Ellen Nakashima and Spencer S. Hsu<br>Washington Post Staff Writers<br>Friday, November 3, 2006; A18<br><br>The federal government disclosed details yesterday of a border-security program to screen all people who enter and leave the United States, create a terrorism risk profile of each individual and retain that information for up to 40 years.<br><br>The details, released in a notice published yesterday in the Federal Register, open a new window on the government's broad and often controversial data-collection effort directed at American and foreign travelers, which was implemented after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.<br><br>While long known to scrutinize air travelers, the Department of Homeland Security is seeking to apply new technology to perform similar checks on people who enter or leave the country "by automobile or on foot," the notice said.<br><br>The department intends to use a program called the Automated Targeting System, originally designed to screen shipping cargo, to store and analyze the data.<br><br>"We have been doing risk assessments of cargo and passengers coming into and out of the U.S.," DHS spokesman Jarrod Agen said. "We have the authority and the ability to do it for passengers coming by land and sea."<br><br>In practice, he said, the government has not conducted risk assessments on travelers at land crossings for logistical reasons.<br><br>"We gather, collect information that is needed to protect the borders," Agen said. "We store the information we see as pertinent to keeping Americans safe."<br><br>Civil libertarians expressed concern that risk profiling on such a scale would be intrusive and would not adequately protect citizens' privacy rights, issues similar to those that have surrounded systems profiling air passengers.<br><br>"They are assigning a suspicion level to millions of law-abiding citizens," said David Sobel, senior counsel of the Electronic Frontier Foundation. "This is about as Kafkaesque as you can get."<br><br>DHS officials said that by publishing the notice, they are simply providing "expanded notice and transparency" about an existing program disclosed in October 2001, the Treasury Enforcement Communications System.<br><br>But others said Congress has been unaware of the potential of the Automated Targeting System to assess non-aviation travelers.<br><br>"ATS started as a tool to prevent the entry of drugs with cargo into the U.S.," said one aide, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the subject. "We are not aware of Congress specifically legislating to make this expansion possible."<br><br>The Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee, chaired by Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine), yesterday asked Homeland Security to brief staff members on the program, Collins's spokeswoman, Jen Burita, said.<br><br>The notice comes as the department is tightening its ability to identify people at the borders. At the end of the year, for example, Homeland Security is expanding its Visitor and Immigrant Status Indicator Technology program, under which 32 million noncitizens entering the country annually are fingerprinted and photographed at 115 airports, 15 seaports and 154 land ports.<br><br>Stephen E. Flynn, senior fellow for national security studies at the Council on Foreign Relations, expressed doubts about the department's ability to conduct risk assessments of individuals on a wide scale.<br><br>He said customs investigators are so focused on finding drugs and weapons of mass destruction that it would be difficult to screen all individual border crossers, other than cargo-truck drivers and shipping crews.<br><br>"There is an ability in theory for government to cast a wider net," he said. "The reality of it is customs is barely able to manage the data they have."<br><br>The data-mining program stemmed from an effort in the early 1990s by customs officials to begin assessing the risk of cargo originating in certain countries and from certain shippers. Risk assessment turned more heavily to automated, computer-driven systems after the 2001 attacks.<br><br>The risk assessment is created by analysts at the National Targeting Center, a high-tech facility opened in November 2001 and now run by Customs and Border Protection.<br><br>In a round-the-clock operation, targeters match names against terrorist watch lists and a host of other data to determine whether a person's background or behavior indicates a terrorist threat, a risk to border security or the potential for illegal activity. They also assess cargo.<br><br>Each traveler assessed by the center is assigned a numeric score: The higher the score, the higher the risk. A certain number of points send the traveler back for a full interview.<br><br>The Automated Targeting System relies on government databases that include law enforcement data, shipping manifests, travel itineraries and airline passenger data, such as names, addresses, credit card details and phone numbers.<br><br>The parent program, Treasury Enforcement Communications System, houses "every possible type of information from a variety of federal, state and local sources," according to a 2001 Federal Register notice.<br><br>It includes arrest records, physical descriptions and "wanted" notices. The 5.3 billion-record database was accessed 766 million times a day to process 475 million travelers, according to a 2003 Transportation Research Board study.<br><br>In yesterday's Federal Register notice, Homeland Security said it will keep people's risk profiles for up to 40 years "to cover the potentially active lifespan of individuals associated with terrorism or other criminal activities," and because "the risk assessment for individuals who are deemed low risk will be relevant if their risk profile changes in the future, for example, if terrorist associations are identified."<br><br>DHS will keep a "pointer or reference" to the underlying records that resulted in the profile.<br><br>The DHS notice specified that the Automated Targeting System does not call for any new means of collecting information but rather for the use of existing systems. The notice did not spell out what will determine whether someone is high risk.<br><br>But documents and former officials say the system relies on hundreds of "rules" to factor a score for each individual, vehicle or piece of cargo.<br><br>According to yesterday's notice, the program is exempt from certain requirements of the Privacy Act of 1974 that allow, for instance, people to access records to determine "if the system contains a record pertaining to a particular individual" and "for the purpose of contesting the content of the record."<br><br><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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waste

Postby blanc » Sun Nov 05, 2006 6:07 am

given the small number of terrorist attacks this scheme is not just anti libertarian, its a waste of your taxes <p></p><i></i>
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Re: waste

Postby AlicetheCurious » Sun Nov 05, 2006 7:03 am

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Why might the HSA deny you permission to leave-or enter-the United States? No one knows, because the entire clearance procedure would be an administrative determination made <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>secretly, with no right of appeal</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->. Naturally, the decision would be made <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>without a warrant, without probable cause and without even any particular degree of suspicion</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->. <br><br>Basically, if the HSA decides it doesn't like you, you're<br>a prisoner - either outside, or inside, the United States, whether or not you hold a U.S. passport.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Unbelievable. Here is a naive question: if the Republicans get booted out, is there any chance the Democrats can reverse the slide of the US into totalitarianism? <p></p><i></i>
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Re: waste

Postby pugzleyca3 » Sun Nov 05, 2006 7:33 am

Hi Alice,<br>I doubt it since most are not much different than the other side. Some I have seen on television are shockingly akin to the Republicans and believe in many of the same policies regarding the war and such. All republicans are not all bad, either, just the extremists like the ones at the top of the heap right now. <br><br>The one thing that might change are the people. There are so many disgruntled Americans right now, unhappy about one thing or another, even the ones who are nodding off half the time have complaints about issues more mundane than most discussed here. <br><br>If the democrats are elected we are going to have to go through a litany of recounts, they're already ready for it.<br><br>And if the Democrats are elected and the people don't see some serious changes, maybe people will be so sick of it all, they'll force them to do something. <br><br>Sad thing is, most only think about Iraq and gas prices, things like that. Not that they are trivial things, but my point is they don't even know what Posse Comitatus is (most) or understand the stealth legislation, 11th hour riders and the rest of these travesties or that they are even happening to them. Until they see the jackboots coming, some just don't seem to believe anything can happen to them along those lines. <br><br>But I've said before, does it really matter why you unite against a monster, when it is after all, a monster? <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Is this a hoax? DHS to require permission to enter and l

Postby OnoI812 » Sun Nov 05, 2006 7:45 am

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>The department intends to use a program called the Automated Targeting System, originally designed to screen shipping cargo, to store and analyze the data.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>This is what Katherine Albrecht, or I think actually the other woman(her name escapes me) that is a leading anti-RFID expert, has uncovered in documents from years ago,<br><br>She found the government putting out contract notices to:<br><br>Develop and implement embedded(in concrete roads and barricades) readers that are capable of -<br><br>a) reading multiple rfid of pedestrians from a a distance of 30 feet ?<br><br>b) reading muliple passengers on a road going vehicles up to and including 60 passengers on a bus moving at speeds up to 60mph, instantaneously from a distance of 30 feet.<br><br>c) there was more but I can't remember it off the top of my head...lots of contract and specifications for developing <br>the chips, power requirements, stealth , etc... a & b were the ones that really stood out. That, and she mentioned restricted travel within the US (internal checkpoints). <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=onoi812>OnoI812</A> at: 11/5/06 4:47 am<br></i>
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Re: Is this a hoax? DHS to require permission to enter and l

Postby pugzleyca3 » Sun Nov 05, 2006 8:01 am

In my humble opinion, there aren't many Christians alive in this country today who do not know about "The Mark of the Beast" and there is no way they are going to be able to implement human chip implantation to a very large degree into this generation of people who are alive today unless it is forced. Because they think it is the mark of the beast. Once this generation is gone here in the United States, though, it will be easier because of the social changes and the ever increasingly hyped up consumer economy and the advent of "coolness" in being the first one to get the slimmest cell phone, etc. Marketing just hasn't caught up with this product yet, or maybe they know this too and are afraid to try it right now. <br><br>For those who don't like Christians, don't forget, when fighting monsters you'll find some very strange bedfellows.<br><br>Many people will reject this out of fear of skin tissue rejection and medical concerns and the plain old fear of needles being poked into their skin. Many others will refuse simply because it's like being part of a herd and others simply because of the truth and that is loss of privacy and the ability to be tracked down. <br><br>Some would take it, of course, willingly. <br><br>I've thought about this a lot, the FDA approved chip is one of my greatest nightmares. <br><br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=pugzleyca3>pugzleyca3</A> at: 11/5/06 5:03 am<br></i>
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Re: Is this a hoax? DHS to require permission to enter and l

Postby rain » Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:03 am

Pugzley, I've already put these two pics up on other threads, just asking if anyone has any observations.<br>the first one yesterday, the second today.<br><br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2006/1102/20061102_032450_ol02haggard_200.jpg" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--><br>photo:PostFile<br>http://www.denverpost.com/ci_4588998<br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://www.vanityfair.com/images/politics/2006/12/poar11_neocons0612.jpg" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--><br>photo:AnnieLeibovitz<br>http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2006/12/neocons200612?printable=true¤tPage=all<br>edit: there ya go WL<br>good to see you've got your priorities in order.<br><br><br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=rain@rigorousintuition>rain</A> at: 11/5/06 6:59 pm<br></i>
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Re: Is this a hoax? DHS to require permission to enter and l

Postby OnoI812 » Sun Nov 05, 2006 4:57 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>there is no way they are going to be able to implement human chip implantation to a very large degree into this generation of people who are alive today unless it is forced.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Oh I don't know about that...This isn't about immediate implantation...It's about getting the technology into your pocket via ID, getting people acclimated and setting up the infrastructure.<br><br>As for getting it inside peoples bodies, don't expect that to happen until they get into the animals first...have you seen the timetable for the animals? they're quite open about the timetable, It's well before the end of this decade. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Is this a hoax? DHS to require permission to enter and l

Postby Wolfmoon Lady » Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:15 pm

Rain,<br><br>That Bush photo appears in the November 3rd Vanity Fair article by David Rose, <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2006/12/neocons200612?printable=true&currentPage=all" target="top">Neo Culpa</a><!--EZCODE LINK END-->. I would credit the photographer, Annie Leibovitz. <br><br>Cheers.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Is this a hoax? DHS to require permission to enter and l

Postby rain » Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:24 pm

so here's what Revelations says, in reference to the other "beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon".<br><br>13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the beast should be killed.<br>13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their forefeads:<br>13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save that he had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.<br><br>the amusing irony, for me at least, is that I'm not a thumper, of any variety. <br>and chips, nanotech, etc, I expect(ed), but not what seems to be evident in those two pics. both, of which I'd say, don't look that recent, and appeared within a short space of each, at what's a rather critical juncture. are there other pics out there too ?<br><br>anyway, I'm feeling a little despondent, or something, so I think I'll go join (RI's) shrubby on the deckchairs.<br><br>edit: pugz, I think if, and that's a big if, or when, this becomes known among the fundie support base, I'll be able to hear the clanging of the cognitive dissonance from here.<br><br><br><br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=rain@rigorousintuition>rain</A> at: 11/5/06 7:49 pm<br></i>
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Re: Is this a hoax? DHS to require permission to enter and l

Postby Sweejak » Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:10 pm

<!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/4316/endgamepicip2.jpg"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--><br><br>http://homepage.mac.com/kaaawa/iblog/C627146904/E20061105184858/index.html <p></p><i></i>
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2003-2012

Postby slimmouse » Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:28 pm

<br><br> 2003- <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>2012.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br> Interesting timescale.<br><br> Nothing to see here of course <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START ;) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br> FWIW, Personally, Im trying my nuts off to make people aware of all of these laws being introduced in the US to folks on our side (UK) of the pond.<br><br> partially because I know that this open fascism will follow in OUR country, to OUR people, based upon what is happening over there to OUR people in what is OUR world.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Is this a hoax? DHS to require permission to enter and l

Postby pugzleyca3 » Mon Nov 06, 2006 12:54 am

Hello 1 Tal,<br>I've been meaning to thank you for this article and kept getting side tracked.<br><br>I guess that puts an end to that question about it being a hoax. <br><br>I think if we want to know what is going on ahead of time, we're going to have to read the Federal Register. <br><br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=pugzleyca3>pugzleyca3</A> at: 11/5/06 10:06 pm<br></i>
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Re: Is this a hoax? DHS to require permission to enter and l

Postby pugzleyca3 » Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:01 am

Rain,<br>Holy cow, you could drive a truck through that "hole" in the middle of Haggard's forehead but then I see a verticle "scar" above his nose/between his brows. (Maybe they gave him a lobotomy while they were chipping him. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :b --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":b"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> ) As for Bus*'s pic, it appears to be the same thing on the other side.<br><br>(I would panic but I fell out of my high chair when I was 2 and still have a scar almost identical to theirs and in exactly the same location. Seriously. Mine is not as straightline verticle, though. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :lol --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> )<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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