My last email to "Coppertop" Andy Stephenson

by **Seventhson** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 3:40 pm

I will miss you my friend, and I will never forget what the bastards did to you... To whomever reads this, I just got the word. I feel just terrible. I was badjacketed at Democratic Underground and Andy stood up for me (just as I did when he was briefly banned there under the rubric "God Bush N' Cheney" a few years back) Great Aunt of Triplets and a few others of us lobbied for him to be allowed back on. Some at DU constantly harangued him (with the admins comfort there) and , as with the hoax at the end with the alleged falsehoods, etc., the right wingers had it in for him right up to the end. They helped to kill him in my opinion. I considered him a friend, altho an online friend mostly, but we did talk several times. When he was returning from Texas after the death of his sister he called me from the airport. Prior to that once or twice when I was trying to get his help getting back on DU (without success). People pretending to be me (posting under my name or possibly even my email address remoately) pretended to be me and posted hate mail to Andy and others. Only Andy and Jeff Wells (Rigorous Intuition) believed it was a set up and backed me up. To this date neither the DU administrators, nor Will Pitt, nor even Symbolman will return my emails. But Andy did. He called me about two weeks ago, just before he went back in the hospital. He told me there was promising pancreatic research with Turmeric (I am into medicinal herbs/foods, etc) and we chatted about trying to find a lawyer to help him with the slander and libelous claims against him. I will go to my grave believing that this was a sophisticated and sinister "hit". Andy was kicked and punched and assaulted when he was down, which damages the immune system which you need to survive these things. Andy, Brother in the Struggle for Truth and Justice and Liberty, your struggle will not be abandoned. Maybe from where you are now, with the angels of our better nature, you can help us even more than you were able to do while walking amongst us Thank you, brother, and sleep sweetly .... Seventhson PS _ I am going to post this at Rigorous Intuition - Jeff Wells' site - if you wish to see comments or give us all your thoughts . I imagine that Andy's friends will retrieve his email and respond. But there are few words to be said. Just Thank you, Lord, for Andy's precious life. May he be of good use to You in the spirit as he was to us in the flesh. I now have one more ally in heaven.

by **Rigorous Intuition** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 4:07 pm

The first time he pm'd me his phone number and asked me to call. He told me he'd learned you'd been set up on election night. I'd already come to that conclusion, but hearing it from Andy clinched it.

by **Seventhson** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 4:18 pm

Andy tried to help me as I was trying to help him in the end with his legal stuff. He cleared my name with you which was critical (at least now my voice is not silenced on the web as it was for months) I would appreciate if anyone would post a link to this thread at DU so that Andy's friends there will know the truth and that Andy believed in me. The a**holes will continue to demean all of our names at DU and across the net. But at least there will be a fewe places where the truth will out. Andy had a heart of gold, guts and an incredible drive for justice and truth. A gentle sould with fire in his belly. That is why I believe they did their best to destroy him. Thanks for believing in me Jeff. And thank you Andy, wherever you are.Soar! And help us if you can.

by **gwbushmalecheerleader** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 6:49 pm

(This message was left blank) Edited by: <A HREF=http://p097.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=gwbushmalecheerleader>gwbushmalecheerleader</A> at: 7/8/05 8:32 pm

by **hiley** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 11:57 pm

Hello, I am Hiley and I do not know the story and the only judgement that I will make is that if Andy believed you and Minstrel Boy then I have no reason to not open my heart to you. I only knew Andy for a few months and considered him my friend. seventhson please except my condolences to you on the loss of your friend Andy. May you find comfort in knowing he is at peace and still on your side. Hiley

by **toscaveritas** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 2:13 am

I was a friend of Andy for two years. Although I never posted on DU, he always kept me informed of what was going on there. Since it was somewhat of a 'home' to him, I signed up Friday and posted my condolences and feelings to his friends there. But today, when I posted news articles relating to the london attacks, it seemed like a whole army of bushbots came after me with vengeance. Immediately, accusations of 'tinfoil hat', etc. started and when I replied , my posts were DELETED by the admins! This showed me something and maybe I"m wrong, but why did the admins DELETE my posts (i was only defending myself and calling out bushbots for who they are), but allowed the hateful, slanderous LIES about Andy to be posted all this time??? Something smells here--- I wonder if the same people who called me a 'nutcase' when I posted articles from 'The Guardian' and 'AP', also went after Andy! One of them even had a 'memorial' button on their signature, remembering Andy-- how sick! I know your grief, I cried all day yesterday and still tear up today--- hugs, my friend...the fight continues--- we have footsteps to follow! tosca

by **Seventhson** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 11:07 am

Could you post the links here so I can see what the articles you posted caused the hellhounds to come screaming after you? As for the rules at DU, "calling out" is not permitted generally. You have to alert on someone and NOT do it in a thread so these rules tend to favor the bushbots who are slick. Any links to threads where you got attacked and the articles posted would be appreciated. Andy was (and is) a good soul. I am sure he will do what he can to help us from the other side.

by **toscaveritas** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 12:06 pm

thank you for your reply. I guess one of my misconceptions was, that I thought DU was not a haven for bushbots and was moderated by fairness. I also reviewed the rules and according to those, some of the replies did violate the rules (respecting other members, for example).When I saw the disrespectful replies and no action by moderators, I assumed it was ok for me to reply to them in the same manner, for which my posts got deleted. I moderate a yahoo group and I would NOT tolerate this kind of behavior in my group at all! That's why I was surprised. My conclusion is, that the admins have an agenda and if they allowed the smear to be perpetuated against Andy on DU, they are just as guilty as those who posted the lies! thats my take, here's the links to the threads <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1916621&mesg_id=1916621">www.democraticunderground...id=1916621</a> <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1916637">www.democraticunderground...32x1916637</a>

by **Seventhsonjr** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 7:09 pm

Jeez Tosca, They were on you like white on rice. This is really one of the things that is so terrible about DU and the moderators get infiltrated by promoters of the fascist party line. I have to wonder about David Allen. I wonder at times about Will Pitt too. Also there are many Johnny Come Latelies who have pretty serious bona fides, it seems, as progressives. But when push comes to shove they heave the bullshit fascist lines with the best of them. I see why this happened to you. For one thing, Allen worked for Carl Levin (US Senate) who is generally a staunch defender of the right and its policies in Israel despite his dovish credentials otherwise) Second, when such attacks on posters occur, there is very seldom any justice. The people like Walt the Star, a principle attacker of all things left, and many of those others, seem to be encouraged to pile on to folks like you and me and Jeff (Minstrelboy) Thank god for this forum and Minstrelboy (aka, RI, aka Jeff Wells) wehere the truth can be knopwn and a troll can be called on it.

by **toscaveritas** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 7:55 pm

thanks seventh--- i'm VERY glad to be here!! Yup, you're right-- the 'mainstream' is heavily infiltrated by fascists and zionists-- check this out: <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4065599">www.democraticunderground...04x4065599</a> I wonder if those same people would have attacked ANDY if he had told them what he knew? Or, did they attack him when he uncovered the voting scam, the pedophiles , sex slaves, etc??? How fake they are..... actually, i think the fascists are SCARED , thats why they are so frantic about killing any talk and serious questions! think about it-- they are PANICKING! our work has been successful, or they would feel way more comfy in their chairs! tosca

by **Seventhson** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 8:25 pm

On another thread here I explained that there is not one jot or tittle Zionistic about Sharon, Netanyahu, Bush, Wolfowitz, Perle, Kissinger et al. They are f*cking over the true Zionists who do NOT want a fascist state ruling their lives. Zionists do come in a myriad of shades and colors and so there is NOTHING useful about tarring them all with the same brush. But I am actually somewhat of an expert in this field, as my father , who is not Jerwish, worked extensively with the Jewish and French and international antifascist underground in WWII. Many Zionists are leftish Hillelians whop want nothing to do with these fascists. And yes there are zealots among the Jewish population who embrace violence in thier aims for true repatriation of their homeland and expulsion/exile of the Palestinians from theirs as well --- but these are not the Sharonistas. Sharon lies in the same bed with Bush and fascists everywhere. Under the color and propoganda of religion and using religious fervor and obedience to authority to hide their shameful fascist and money-grubbing ways --- the Bush-Sharon_Bin Laden alliance with the Saudis is merely a WASP heirarchy with lackeys who sell out for filthy lucre and worship of Mammon. Most Zionists worth their salt would not allow the dust from their feet to go near Sharon or Bush. Bush and Sharon and those who promote the Zionist myth, do so as a red herring to keep their perpetual war andf their Fourth Reich in the money. Just as the cold war was a myth (We f*cking armed Stalin and gave him the weapons and technology and US dollars to ratchet up defense spending and wage slavery on both the soviet and western sides) so is the myth of the Zionsit conspiracy. Believe me, I am deep into this problem. Zionsim is NOT the problem andy more than socalled Christian fundamentalism is the problem here. WASPS and fascist Anglo-German Americans and their lackies using religion and religious and Machiavellian propoganda is the real problem. (See Konrad Heiden and "Der Fuhrer" for a definitve look at this issue as well as "A History of National Socialism" by the same author (1944 and 1935 respectively)) . AntiZionsim is all propaganda from the extreme right to dividde us all and to make many of us (Jes and leftists especially)turn a blind eye to their dirty massacres. It had to be said. Most peoiple who fall into the "its the Zionists, stupid" trap are being used by the fascists in a sophisticated strategy of hate and division. Don't fall for it.

by **toscaveritas** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 9:33 pm

very interesting, thank you! Please, could you clarify for me, who the true zionists are, what their ideals are, etc. ? I would very much appreciate if you could give me some information, so I can learn and distinguish real from fake. Would Rabbi Goldstein be a zionist or fascist? What about Benjamin Freedman? Or Norman Finkelstein? You see, I'm confused now! Please help me clarify!!! Was Operation Gladio targetting the zionist lefties in Germany and Italy? thank you in advance for your help and patience! so much to learn!! Every time I think I've 'got it', I learn that I know NOTHING! LOL always humbling indeed, keeps ya from getting a big head<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/grin.gif ALT=" >D"> tosca

by **Seventhson** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 12:53 am

of the extreme right. And targets of the socalled Zionist Bushzi fascists on the extreme Jewish right. But it is not about Judaism or Jews or even Zion: it is all about power. As for the names you mentioned I will check them out and give you an opinion. Many many of the mainstream proIsrtael Jewish organizations are plugged into the extreme right "Zionist" movement. But most of them are really secular. There are quite a few exceptions, however. And, just as with fundie Christians and Christian Zionists (read Walter Mead, maybe with a grain of salt, to understand what a Christian Zionist is, third templers mostly) many Zionists follow the leadersd and their "warrirors" like Bush and Sharon like lemmings or dodos to their own extinction. Zionism is FAR from monolithic. So it is like saying "Christians" are responsible for the war in Iraq because Bush is a socalled Christian (nothing could really be further from the truth on both counts) Anyway, I am NOT an expert in Jewish organizations, I just know when they are shills for fascist pseudo Zionists by how they act. if they support Sharon and Bush and the war in Iraq, then they are, in my opinion, not true Zionists but really simple idiotic fascists followers of the idiotsnot from Texas Connecticut and Skull and Bones, the Bastian of White WASP anglo-German supremacy

by **toscaveritas** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 1:12 am

ty for your reply , although I'm still not sure who the real zionists are you were referring to. have you seen this site? <a href="http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/">www.jewsagainstzionism.com/</a> ty for your patience with me. I'm sorry I'm so nosy, but I really want to clear up any misconceptions I may have

by **wolf pauli** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 3:40 am

A term that tends to generate more heat than light, and a topic that deserves a separate thread, but FWIW, a few leads ... toscaveritas already linked to True Torah Jews Against Zionism -- interesting group, and well worth a look. Ditto for Neturei Karta (Jews United Against Zionism) and Rabbi Goldstein: <a href="http://www.nkusa.org/">www.nkusa.org/</a> Norman Finkelstein's site <a href="http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/">www.normanfinkelstein.com/</a> has lots of serious, thoroughly researched material. The recent flap with Dershowitz over Finkelstein's forthcoming book Beyond Chutzpah is well documented there, among many other things. Then there's Israel Shahak, Michael Neumann, Jeffrey Blankfort, et al., and of course Chomsky, who has often said he was once called a 'Zionist' and is now called an 'Anti-Zionist', though his views haven't changed: "I was a Zionist activist in my youth. For me, Zionism meant opposition to a Jewish state. The Zionist movement did not come out officially in favor of a Jewish state until 1942. Before this it was merely the intent of the Zionist leadership. The Zionist movement for a long time stood against the establishment of a Jewish state because such a state would be discriminatory and racist." <a href="http://www.chomsky.info/interviews/19970609.htm">www.chomsky.info/interviews/19970609.htm</a> "Until December 1942, the Zionist movement had no formal commitment to a Jewish state. Until the state was established in May 1948, opposition to a Jewish state was within the Zionist movement. Later, the concept "Zionism" was very narrowly restricted for propaganda reasons. By the 1970s, when Israel chose expansion and dependence on the US over security and integration into the region, the concept "Zionism" was narrowed to refer, in effect, to support for the policies of the government of Israel. Thus when the distinguished Israeli Labor Party statesman Abba Eban said that the task of dialogue with the gentile world is to show that "anti-Zionists" are either anti-Semites or neurotic self-hating Jews (his examples were I.F. Stone and me), he was restricting "Zionism" to support for the state of Israel and excluding any such criticism as logically impossible. The concept "anti-Zionism" then becomes analogous to the disgraceful concept "anti-Americanism," drawn from the lexicon of totalitarianism and based on strictly totalitarian principles. By now the term has been so debased by propaganda that it is better abandoned, in my opinion." <a href="http://www.chomsky.info/interviews/20040330.htm">www.chomsky.info/interviews/20040330.htm</a> Important, that last sentence, and so often overlooked. Taking the point would clear away much confusion.

My last email to "Coppertop" Andy Stephenson

My last email to "Coppertop" Andy Stephenson

I only spoke with Andy twice.

Yeah. And thank god you did

Re: My last email to "Coppertop" Andy Stephenson

seventhson

Andy and DU

Sorry to hear this but not surprised

articles

Re: articles

Re: articles

NOT Zionism, but Fascism

Re: NOT Zionism, but Fascism

A Lot of the leftie Jews (& some leftie Zionists)are tar

Re: A Lot of the leftie Jews (& some leftie Zionists)are

'Zionism'

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