Music and politics

by **TroubleFunk** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 9:58 am

While I agree that it was at first fine to be "attracted to the pessimism" etc, friendcatcher, the end result was that they stayed there immersed in it. I feel like punk, especially American punk - and, make no mistake, this eventually filtered through to the British and World punk scenes but it took a little while longer - was splintered from without, very much like whatever decent political facets of the 60s music counterculture were. Punk rock was SPECIFICALLY a political threat to the PTB (I'm waxing Hughian here), it was very visible and very immediate, and there were zero signs of "peace & love" philosophising for a long while. The fact of "Rock Against Reagan" rallies in DC, combined with the "Smoke-in", while band after band of political malcontents played for fairly enormous crowds ... the concept of bands like the ones I mentioned previously, piling in vans to go to the American heartland to pile out and rail against the PTB to pockets of youth and anger - in places like Kansas, deep Texas, Oklahoma - where previously these pockets thought they were isloated ...The very existence of a band like Millions of Dead Cops (believe me, they took it on the chin every time they came out their door, I've never bought a "new" vinyl copy of their first album that wasn't BROKEN in its cover) or the Dead Kennedys, who named names fearlessly...the national publication of a magazine like Maximum RockN'Roll that was forthright in its leftist leanings and threatened to unite diverse areas of youth under a banner of "tear it down"... The fact that this movement ended up as fractious and beaten-down as it did speaks volumes about how important it was to the PTB to see it end that way. Sure, some punks just grew up and got advertising jobs. Others fell into drugs and decadence. But others saw the ferocity and brutality of the response (LA police, anyone?) and just decided to stay alive, lay lower, and take quieter chances.

by **friend catcher** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:41 am

You may well be right about the US punks, although I know little about it apart from the Dead Kennedys who had a large following here. The two strands of punk in britain came from the Clash and the Sex Pistols; Clash were more musically astute and varied with an upfront political edge and most of there work holds up well to say the least. It also to my mind did nothing and went nowhere, whilst the pistols was very limited in their musical abilities and had a seeming contempt for everything based on the notion that everything was corrupted and for sale. When they played the ptb sent in the heavy mob, the councils attempted to ban them and the call of no future spoke to alot ofpeople who actively agreed. It left a cultural impact (or continued a cultural theme) of political anarchism and non compromise. for me that's a valuable legacy. In the artificial jubilee nonsense that we were corralled into in 1977 the pistols remained dangerous, hiring a barge to play the alternative national anthem of God save the Queen, floating outside parliament was an inspired and dangerous act to do, whilst the Clashes' packing out Hammersmith Palais in central London was not.They could riot to their hearts content in Hammersmith, but the police Knew where to pick up the rioters, the buildings were all insured and the courts had well oiled mechanisms for dealing with crimes against property. I was only eight at the time but I remembered the contrast of the straight suits on tv practising their unthinking moral outrage with the upfront " Bollocks to you" of the pistols. I thank them for that. How the influence of goth type music is of relevance today is at best uncertain, but my view is that it never left the world of the arts and shaped some of the more interesting aspects of non mainstream culture.

by **Seamus OBlimey** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:15 am

Thanks Friend for disagreeing, it seems you caught the wave after me as it spread north. I bunked off to see SLF, the Lurkers and the Dickies (78/79). I know a lot of the early London crowd were art school but here in Yorkshire punk was working class and our only chance to get out of it. I can see how goth would appeal a few years later and I knew and loved a lot of goths but I don't know anyone who'd ever admit to having been one.<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"> Thanks too Trouble, that really sums up what I was trying to get across.. we were a threat, we felt it and THEY FELT IT! I never knew MDC had so much trouble but bands like Crass had the same here. I didn't really feel the clampdown until 84/85 with the miner's strike, stop the city and the battle of the beanfield. "some punks just grew up and got advertising jobs. Others fell into drugs and decadence" I've tried all four and found them all lacking so now I work for the gov.<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/pimp.gif ALT=":hat">

by **IanEye** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:19 pm

"We Will Not" - Bad Brains Ms. Babylon your queendom is doomed across this land you'll spread no more your gloom Cause one ah these days you gonna get your jilt and we'll never have to deal with no more of your filth We will not do what they want or do what they say. Oh no. We will not do what they want or do what they say. Oh No. Oh, Mr. Bacon, your future time is near and to the people, no more lies do they wanna hear. We read the bible and see your 666. And now we'll never have to deal with no more tricks. We will not do what they want or do what they say. Oh no. We will not do what they want or do what they say. Oh No! IanEye - IagainstI - IanEye - IagainstI - IanEye - IagainstI

by **friend catcher** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:26 pm

In Manchester the punk scene tended to be more conservative and cerebral, So we had the Buzzcocks instead of Sham 69. stiff little fingers were a fiery lot and very popular when I first started venturing out after dark, Yorkshire produced some interesting sounds in the late 70's early 80's, thinking- Cabs, H17, gang of four,soft cell,scritti. Remember one of them had a song called fascist groove thang that introduced me to the idea of Reagan as a fascist god, I was only 13 so had to look up fascist god in the dictionary, to no avail. Came up with my own definition which is under constant review. Funny how things shape us.

by **TroubleFunk** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:29 pm

Yeah Seamus - the point I was trying to make was that in a country as huge as the US, with such vast, barren swaths of backwoods stupidity and "patriotic" bile, it took a lot of nerve to go and do what those (we) kids did - a WHOLE lot of nerve. Bad Brains, for Gods' sake - my band used to open for them, talk about BRAZEN, a bunch of DC black dudes trying to sell what they were selling - AWESOME, LIFE-CHANGING, INSPIRATIONAL. Check out the Minutemen as well, politically astute and very brief in their statements. Friendcatcher, I guess my opinion of British punk is partially uninformed. My impression was that while the Pistols had anger and vitriol on their side, it was unfocused (and don't get me wrong, that was great) but for some Queenbaiting. Clash? Stiff little Fingers? Hell yeah! The Clash kinda went downriver, though, after their dub moves, IMO - They were feeling the pressure to make money, blew it by trying to hang with the big labels. The goths? I think their gravitating toward art just made it possible to sell the dark side we were mining to corporations who have now turned our own iconography against us - watching a few hours of CNN commercials proves out.

by **friend catcher** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:42 pm

Troublefunk, I take your point about requiring nerves in the US and extend that to anyone protesting in the US. At least here when nose to nose with the police we can (or could) be reasonably certain they weren't going to shoot us or handout sentences longer than a century.Maybe we're catching up. Still, whatever our opinions on punk and its aftermath there's no hint of unicorns, mythical beasts, codpieces and whatever else it is that heavy metal finds important. And that's got to be a good thing. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">

by **TroubleFunk** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:50 pm

GREAT THREAD. Looky here political punk fans - scroll down to show # 41. I found this by mistake, there's probably a great deal more here: <a href="http://www.rss-spider.com/directory/10/podcasts">www.rss-spider.com/directory/10/podcasts</a> Here are three songs by Germs, TSOL & the Dicks. "Communist Eyes" by the Germs I'm looking through Communist eyes I'm seeing planes in bloodshot skies I see the flag of a working people Who conceal the lies in the stars and sickle It's a double edge Communist eyes-c'mon inside I can't ever find the way out Communist eyes-lost inside I never get a day out I'm looking through Communist eyes All I see is an old man's alibi There's a world outside but I'm unaware I open my books but the pages stare It's a double edge Communist eyes-all so blind I can't even play the game now I'm living through Communist times I wave my flag and hold me head high I can feel the glory of my comrades in masses But I'm waiting for the day when this madness passes It's a double edge... "Abolish Government/Silent Majority" by TSOL Abolish Government Its nothing to me Forget about god He's not here to see We live by a system A perfect mold People perfect people Who are poor and old Lives were spent on the ladder of success Working for nothing In this worthless mess Presidents a name Presidents a label Highest man on the government table. America Land of the free Free to the power of the people in uniform People are so blind they just can't see Send your son to bootcamp Send him off to war If he comes back he'll be dead and nothing more Struggle for a land, for a country, for a freedom All you mindless people looking for someone to lead them Wake up to the same old shit Live your life to suit their fit Some people they don't like your hair Policemen they just don't care Snipers that want to be Rifle sites are aimed at me Wake up silent majority The government they don't want us here You folks can't feel that fear You can walk the streets today You can walk in your own way People think that I'm crazy These people just can't see Wake up silent majority Live your life Day by day Doing everything That they say Silent majority Promote freedom Let it be heard Don't forget that its only a word Silent Majority When you gunna wake up? "Hate The Police" by the Dicks Mommy, mommy, mommy Look at your son You might have loved me But now I got a gun You better stay out of my way I think I've had a bad day I've had a bad day I've had a bad day Daddy, daddy, daddy Proud of your son Got himself a good job Killing niggers and Mexicans I'll tell you one thing, it's true You can't find justice, it'll find you It'll find you It'll find you People tell policemen They've met their match Down in them desert sands Mudhoney won't catch Dicks hate policemen, yes, it's true You can't find justice, it'll find you It'll find you It'll find you It'll find you Mommy, mommy Look at your son You might have loved me Now I've got a gun You better stay out of my way I've had a bad day I've had a bad day Mommy, I've had a bad day Mommy, I've had a bad day Mommy

by **robertdreed** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:57 pm

Fugazi?

by **TroubleFunk** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 1:17 pm

I forgot them and maybe a 1000 others. Fugazi are a tremendous group, who somehow just musically never had the velocity I more appreciate. They're a very dynamic group, though, especially live. Damn nice guys, too. I just personally prefer the mile-a-minute in-your-faceness of thrash music.

by **robertdreed** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 1:20 pm

When I want that- about 5 minutes a year, on average- I head straight past the hardcore punk section and get buried by Cannibal Corpse, or something along that line. As a rule, I'm a lot more into distilling the silence. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=robertdreed>robertdreed</A> at: 7/2/06 11:24 am

by **Seamus OBlimey** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 1:57 pm

"At least here when nose to nose with the police we can (or could) be reasonably certain they weren't going to shoot us" Friend, On the mainland yes, but in Ireland? I think we always knew if they could do it there they could do it here.(And they did). I've never had more than a few slaps across the face from a copper but I've seen and heard others get more. And yes Manchester was another scene, Anthony H. Wilson saw to that. I remember his Factory tour when Joy Division, OMD, A Certain Ratio and John Dowie played the F Club in Leeds. We asked WTF is this? then next week it was echo and the bunnymen (sorry but they don't deserve capitals). The promoter, Nick Toczec, listened and started booking real indie bands while the Factory worked it's way up the charts. Manchester got the Hacienda while Leeds got the Bierkellar and all day punk gigs with 20 bands or more. It's no coincidence that Chumbawamba were mostly born in Burnley (and Barnsley) but set their roots in Armley. cabaret voltaire? all i heard from them was nag nag nag .. we had the 3 Johns with their drunken caterwauling.. and OK you had the Fall and then the whole madchester thing which eventually got Blur elected (urm? where am i going with this?)

by **Mentalgongfu** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 2:02 pm

I missed the golden age of the punk era by about a decade or so, but two of my favorite music in politics bands are Rage Against the Machine and System of a Down. All of Rage's albums are excellent musically and lyrically and it's a shame they broke up. I wonder where Zack de la Rocha is these days. I still think System's first album is the best, but the political dialogue is more evident in their later works. Just about every Rage song there is has political implications. One of my favorites is Bulls On Parade. Excerpt: Weapons not food, not homes, not shoes Not need, just feed the war cannibal animal I walk tha corner to tha rubble that used to be a library Line up to tha mind cemetary now What we don't know keeps tha contracts alive an movin' They don't gotta burn tha books they just remove 'em While arms warehouses fill as quick as tha cells Rally round tha family, pockets full of shells Rally round tha family! With a pocket full of shells They rally round tha family! With a pocket full of shells They rally round tha family! With a pocket full of shells They rally round tha family! With a pocket full of shells System's lyrics are in a far more poetic vain. From Deer Dance: Round, Round, Circumventing circuses, Lamenting in protest, To visible police, Presence sponsored fear, Battalions of riot police, With rubber bullet kisses, Baton courtesy, Service with a smile Beyond the Staples Center you can see America, With its tired, poor, avenging disgrace, Peaceful, loving youth against the brutality, Of plastic existence. Pushing little children, With their fully automatics, They like to push the weak around, Pushing little children, With their fully automatics, They like to push the weak around. Round, Round, A rush of words, Pleading to disperse, Upon your naked walls, alive, A political call, The fall guy accord, We can't afford to be neutral on a moving train, Beyond the Staples Center you can see America, With its tired, poor, avenging disgrace, Peaceful, loving youth against the brutality, Of plastic existence. Pushing little children, With their fully automatics, They like to push the weak around, Pushing little children, With their fully automatics, They like to push the weak around. Push them around, A deer dance, invitation to peace, War staring you in the face, dressed in black. With a helmet, fierce, Trained and appropriate for the malcontents, For the disproportioned malcontents, The little boy smiled, it'll all be well, The little boy smiled it'll all be well, Pushing little children, With their fully automatics, They like to push the weak around, Pushing little children, With their fully automatics, They like to push the weak around. Pushing little children, With their fully automatics, They like to push the weak around, Push the weak around, Push the weak around, Push the weak around, They like to push the weak around.

by **friend catcher** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 2:16 pm

On Sundays the bulls get so bored When they are asked to show off for us There is the sun, the sand, and the arena There are the bulls ready to bleed for us It's the time when grocery clerks become Don Juan It's the time when all ugly girls Turn into swans, aaahh. Who can say of what he's found That bull who turns and paws the ground And suddenly he s ees himself all nude, aaahh. Who can say of what he dreams That bull who hears the silent screams From the open mouths of multitudes Olé! On Sundays the bulls get so bored When they are asked to suffer for us There are the picadors and the mobs revenge There are the toreros, and the mob kneels for us It's the time when grocery clerks become García Lorca And the girls put roses in their teeth like Carmen On Sundays the bulls get so bored When they are asked to drop dead for us The sword will plunge down and the mob will drool The blood will pour down and turn the sand to mud. Olé, olé! The moment of triumph when grocery clerks become Nero The moment of triumph when the girls scream and shout The name of their hero, aaahh. And when finally they fell Did not the bulls dream of some hell Where men and worn-out matadors still burn, aaahh. Or perhaps with their last breaths Would not they pardon us their deaths Knowing w hat we did at Carthage--olé!--Waterloo--olé!--Verdun--olé! Stalingrad--olé!--Iwo Jima--olé!--Hiroshima--olé!--Saigon!

by **Seamus OBlimey** » Sun Jul 02, 2006 2:19 pm

I saw Rage at Glastonbury but quickly movevd to the other stage where Beastie Boys were playing.. they rocked harder

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