Our Nation doesn't surrender to blackmail - AbuGhraib photos

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Our Nation doesn't surrender to blackmail - AbuGhraib photos

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Sep 29, 2005 2:01 pm

<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050929/ap_on_re_us/detainee_records">news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050...ee_records</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br><br> Judge Orders Release of Abu Ghraib Photos By LARRY NEUMEISTER, Associated Press Writer <br>9 minutes ago (Thursday Sept. 29)<br><br><br>NEW YORK - Saying the United States "does not surrender to blackmail," a judge ruled Thursday that pictures of detainee abuse at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison must be released over government claims that they could damage America's image. <br><br>U.S. District Judge Alvin K. Hellerstein ordered the release of certain pictures in a 50-page decision that said terrorists in Iraq and Afghanistan have proven they "do not need pretexts for their barbarism."<br><br>The ACLU has sought the release of 87 photographs and four videotapes taken at the prison as part of an October 2003 lawsuit demanding information on the treatment of detainees in U.S. custody and the transfer of prisoners to countries known to use torture. The ACLU contends that prisoner abuse is systemic.<br><br>The judge said: "Our nation does not surrender to blackmail, and fear of blackmail is not a legally sufficient argument to prevent us from performing a statutory command. Indeed, the freedoms that we champion are as important to our success in Iraq and Afghanistan as the guns and missiles with which our troops are armed." <p></p><i></i>
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re: Abu Ghraib photos, videos ordered released

Postby Starman » Thu Sep 29, 2005 3:00 pm

Hmmm ... A small step in the right direction -- I strongly believe in the crucial need for complete transparency about what the effect of US Foreign Policy is and holding those responsible for systemic crimes accountable, which this development is a small step in the direction of.<br><br>I've long believed that the argument that release of the photos would just provoke greater terrorism to be a false canard -- most Iraqis are ABUNDANTLY aware of US and GB-aided abuses and crimes, they sure don't need photographic confirmation. Witholding the photos mostly serves a narrow war-apology agenda. As it is, witness testimony and official reports by the UN and Human Rights groups etc. re: systemic abuses throughout the dozen or more major US-run military prisons has been effectively ignored and relegated to the memory black hole of DoD-operated disinfo-propaganda-denial. I haven't 'kept up', but the US Pentagon, WH spokespersons, Bush Admin. and State Dept. have consistently denied that the US was holding women and children, let alone that they were subjected to extreme conditions of deprivation, intimidation, physical violence and abuses -- despite numerous testimonies and witness reports that included a great deal of horrific detail.<br><br>I believe in 'let the chips fall where they may' -- that perhpas most of the serious miscalculations, mistakes, arrogant decisions and continuing deceptions and frauds result from past failures to reveal the truth of things and demand a complete accounting and reckoning -- America's 'leaders' have become masters at cover-up and denial, typically 'for the greater good' -- but this leads to greater and greater excesses as past lies are covered-up by newer, bigger lies -- and the system goes on and on and on. I'm deeply offended and disgusted by the whole foul system of back-scratching ass-covering that rewards loyal complicity and punishes truth-telling and calls for accountability.<br><br>It's a sad commentary that without the impact of the already-released photos, it's likely the truth about Abu Ghraib abuses would NEVER have been acknowledged let alone publicized.<br><br>Perhaps one of the more horrible things about the abuse scandals is that 'patriotism' has been so completely redefined and turned on its head, standing for little more than 'support' for troops and the US's policies, no matter how immoral, unwarranted, corrupted and wrong-headed it may be -- ideals of justice and principles of human rights and International agreement be damned. Far too much of the US public has a superficial, vague conception of what the war actually entails or how it has devastated lives -- they 'excuse' apparant excesses (which they care little to know about) as necessary to 'defend' American Interests -- also loosely defined as preserving the American 'way of life', ie., the status quo. It's incredibly frustrating to pierce the shell of denial by which so many folks insulate themselves from awareness, as IF they are actually doing the nation a service with their compliant accomodation.<br><br>The analogues with pre-war Nazi Germany are striking, and very troubling.<br>Starman <p></p><i></i>
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Time to pony up the moral superiority.

Postby lilorphant » Thu Sep 29, 2005 3:39 pm

With the release of the photos the claims of moral superiority, as far as treatment of prisoners go, really gets watered down.<br><br>The only argument I get from pro-war people these days is "rape rooms!", "Treatment of prisoners!", and "Saddam killed his own people!". <br><br>When are they going to get it, America is growing weary and impatient with the bloviators.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Time to pony up the moral superiority.

Postby dbeach » Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:10 pm

One more judge with a spine.<br>gonna need a spinal epidemic to expose the depths of these villains especiaLly from govt officials IF we are to remain a Nation of Laws <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Time to pony up the moral superiority.

Postby ewastud » Thu Sep 29, 2005 5:17 pm

I was a bit surprised by the ruling actually. Although the judge prior to the last hearing seemed predisposed toward ruling on the photos' release, immediately after the hearing which was about a month ago the judge was quoted saying things which indicated he had been "persuaded" by the government against their release. <br><br>I wondered then if he had perhaps been intimidated by the government -- either with personal harm or harm to the country in some way. I have been wondering during the past few weeks about why the delay in a ruling on this case. Now coming immediately after the DeLay indictment and other prominent Republicans are "on the ropes" and under scrutiny for corruption of some kind or another, I wonder if those events influenced the timing of his decision being handed down today. Was his pro-government statements previously but a feint? <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Our Nation doesn't surrender to blackmail - AbuGhraib ph

Postby heath7 » Thu Sep 29, 2005 6:07 pm

From what anybody can tell, is there basis for appeal? <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Our Nation doesn't surrender to blackmail - AbuGhraib ph

Postby heath7 » Fri Sep 30, 2005 12:55 pm

Richard Myers retired today, the day after Hellerstein's Abu Ghraib decision. Myers was the government's point man, in court, for keeping the pictures hidden. <p></p><i></i>
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Re:appeal

Postby seemslikeadream » Fri Sep 30, 2005 1:10 pm

From what I read yesterday they can take it to the Supreme Court, but some felt that was unlikely <p></p><i></i>
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Re: The great unraveling

Postby Qutb » Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:29 pm

These guys don't look too happy:<br><br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/rids/20050930/i/r875479733.jpg" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--> <p><!--EZCODE FONT START--><span style="color:black;font-family:century gothic;font-size:x-small;"><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Qutb means "axis," "pole," "the center," which contains the periphery or is present in it. The qutb is a spiritual being, or function, which can reside in a human being or several human beings or a moment. It is the elusive mystery of how the divine gets delegated into the manifest world and obviously cannot be defined.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--></span><!--EZCODE FONT END--><br><br></p><i></i>
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in the long run

Postby Homeless Halo » Fri Sep 30, 2005 8:37 pm

They will lose. All of them. It is their destiny. It is inevitable. I have forseen it.<br><br>For every evil scumsucker in power there are four or five bastards that have never done anything THAT bad (everyone is self serving), who are just aching for a chance to bite the hands of their LHP masters. <br><br>All it takes it enough blood in the water. <p></p><i></i>
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