Wilson and Plame: Victims or Traitors?

by **kornholio** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 11:20 am

Novak revealed Plame to be CIA in his column of July 12th (I think the 12th, but definitely July), 2003. Everyone says that this blew Brewster-Jennings' cover immediately. By October 4, the damage had long since been done. It would be one thing if an employee of a huge company were outed as a NOC. If she had been an employee of, say, Sony, or Deutsche Bank, that wouldn't have immediately called into question all the activities of Sony or Deutsche Bank. But she wasn't. It's hard to find much info on Brewster-Jennings, but apparently they presented themselves as a small energy consultancy. If one of the top people at a small consultancy is a spy, the whole consultancy is suspect. According to the official story, as soon as Plame was revealed to be CIA on July 12th, anyone who had dealt with her would have considered Brewster-Jennings radioactive (so to speak). It didn't matter that the name "Brewster-Jennings" wasn't in the paper yet. Her previous clients/targets wouldn't have thought "Oh, Plame was a spy? Too bad....guess I'll call up Brewster-Jennings and get a different consultant." Note that this has nothing to do with whether the whole thing was a setup, or whether Plame wanted to be outed, or what Brewster-Jennings was actually doing. The point is that once Plame's cover was blown, Brewster-Jennings' cover was blown. This happened in July. By October 4 the horses had already left the barn. What am I missing, antiaristo? What do you think is the significance of naming Brewster-Jennings in October?

by **Peachtree Pam** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 12:36 pm

you have their attention.

by **antiaristo** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 12:51 pm

kornholio, I'm afraid you are being suckered into the big lie. Of course I've seen it repeated around the net that Brewster-Jennings was toast as soon as Plame was outed. But I've yet to see any evidence that is true. Look at what happened. On 3 October Novak named Brewster-Jennings on CNN. On the SAME DAY two "Bush administration officials" confirmed everything Novak had said to Pincus and Allen. Pincus and Allen then published these facts the next day, sourced to "two Bush administration officials". The spin on this is that the dirty deal was done back in July. But the name was not public. Yes, she had left the clue to be found, but nobody had found it. How ironic. Even the Bushies overestimated the sleuthing skills of the DC presstitutes! When the DoJ opened its investigation they shat themselves. "Those fucking presstitutes are useless! We'll have to give it a kick. Get me Novak on the line....." The big lie is this: that America is under threat from without. I see no evidence that foreign intelligence services did a "work-up" on her name (as said that "former diplomat", hmm, who might that be?). I'd bet good money that nothing serious happened to Brewster-Jennings until AFTER it was published by the Washington Post.

by **dbeach** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 1:14 pm

Its all a scam and a money scam .. your taxdollars are finacing these illegal operations and the criminals syndicates give it fancy names like homeland security and natonal security.. look at their lavish lifestyles crime has paid well for the elites TIL NOW MAYBE the criminals will get away with this one .? MAYBE the syndicates will really be cracked for a real crime TREASON. Selling NUKES to our enemies with the intention of attacking them someday with US nukes and then of course sending in hallbuton,bectel,kellogs and the rest of the insiders to do private contracts to rebuild ,occupy and exploit AND SO IT GOES..

by **kornholio** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:02 pm

Check out the "disclosure and scandal" portion of the following Wikipedia timeline: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plame_scandal_timeline">en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pla...l_timeline</a> This wasn't an isolated sentence in one paper that nobody noticed. By the end of July 03, some version of "Plame is CIA" had appeared in the WaPo, the Nation, Time (online), and Newsday. Novak and the White House were publicly taking heat for outing an undercover operative. The clue could hardly be missed. Figuring out which company Plame supposedly worked for would be the logical next step. Anyone who had met her in her work as an "energy consultant" would already know. That's just common sense. I'm not sure what evidence of this you'd expect to find; intelligence agencies and arms dealers generally don't post their research to the web. > The big lie is this: that America is under threat from without. and then, from dbeach: > your taxdollars are finacing these illegal operations and the criminals syndicates give it fancy names like homeland security and natonal security.. I mostly agree with both of these statements. I'm just not convinced that the October 4 publication of the "Brewster Jennings" name was news to anyone except us proles.

by **citizenspook** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:43 pm

Anti, I'm blown away by your work on this Pincus thing. Don't forget (as Ive just reminded Jane Hamsher), that Wilson told Pincus all about the Niger docs that he actually never saw. If you like, write this story up to include the AQ Khan stuff, Pincus, the progressive report stuff in this thread...all of it make it tight...I'll publish it at CS with you as my first guest blogger when it's ready, just drop a note to this board in this thread, when I see that note, I'll give you instructions so we can get this posted at the CS blog it's an important story, time is of the essence citizenspook

by **AnnaLivia** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:13 pm

Paddy's part: prove beyond doubt and deniability that they are lying liars. at least - lying to him, at most - a deep and tangled web of deceit to trick us into WAR and emptying our treasury for WAR. show the people the rabbit hole, Paddy. we'll show them how deep it goes and all it has cost them! now is the time! i don't know if i'll be able to sleep tonight! sure wonder what rover had to say to paddy today...

by **dbeach** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 5:02 pm

A.L . Rover coulda said to Fitzie and then jrs poppy blasted JFK from the 4th position and has been laffin ever since

by **antiaristo** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 5:56 pm

"Dutch court loses A Q Khan's files, judge suspects CIA AMSTERDAM, SEPT 10 (AFP) The Amsterdam court, which sentenced the father of Pakistan's nuclear programme Abdul Qadeer Khan to four years in prison in 1983, has lost Khan's legal files and the court's vice-president suspects the CIA had a hand in the documents' disappearance. "Something is not right, we just don't lose things like that," judge Anita Leeser told Dutch news show NOVA late yesterday. "I find it bewildering that people lose files with a political goal, especially if it is on request of the CIA. It is unheard of," she added." ~snip~ In 1983 he was sentenced in absentia, by judge Leeser, to four years in prison for stealing nuclear secrets about uranium enrichment. On appeal the verdict was quashed because of procedural errors and the Dutch government did not pursue the matter any further. A month ago former Dutch prime minister Ruud Lubbers said Khan was let go at the request of US intelligence services. Leeser said that when she heard Lubbers, the disappearance of Khan's files at the Amsterdam court's archive fell into place for her." <a href="http://www.outlookindia.com/pti_news.asp?id=322189">www.outlookindia.com/pti_...?id=322189</a> This has been brewing in the dutch media for about a month ever since Leeser,the retiring vice-president of the court for the district Amsterdam went on dutch tv to make this unprecendented statement. Just to spell out how sensational this is,the ex prime minister of the netherlands and the vice president of the court that convicted A.Q. Khan confirm on tv that the dutch judicial system can be subverted by the intelligence agency of a foreign government without consequence. this fits in with my contention that much of Europe has been US occupied territory since the end of WWII. it also looks like the dutch were used (willingly) to transfer nuclear tech. to pakistan with plausible deniability for the USA. ======================== Hmm, I hope you don't mind that I've copied onto this thread. This is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT to demonstrating that AQ Khan was working for and enjoyed the protection by the Order of the Garter. Did you know that Beatrice was part of the Windsor Mob? And did you know that under the European "constitution" the obligations to NATO take precedence over national laws? Rebadge AQ Khan as NATO and he's off Scot-free!

by **antiaristo** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 6:20 pm

A straight lift from emptywheel at the Next Hurrah =====================0 The babysitters actually precede Lelyveld's return as editor, since Judy's first article with Broad was on May 21 (Lelyveld returned on June 5). But that first article was another credulous transcription of Administration leaks. In her first article with Broad, Judy seems to have been leaked the contents of a CIA white paper proclaiming the famous trailers were mobile weapons labs.We know it was a leak because Judy printed it the NYT later admitted to the anger the leak caused in some corners of the intelligence community. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>The details of Mr. Kay's findings have been closely held within the administration as part of a strategy that officials said was intended both to prevent unauthorized leaks and to minimize internal disputes about any emerging findings. Issues related to the Iraqi weapons program have been contentious inside the administration as well as outside, with the State Department's intelligence branch and some officials at the Defense Intelligence Agency taking issue with a report made public in May by the C.I.A. that said mysterious trailers discovered in Iraq were used to manufacture biological weapons. [emphasis mine]<hr></blockquote> The May 21 article makes it clear, though, that the leak came from the same "senior administration officials" that Judy was so "entangled" with on all the rest of her stories. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>United States intelligence agencies have concluded that two mysterious trailers found in Iraq were mobile units to produce germs for weapons, but they have found neither biological agents nor evidence that the equipment was used to make such arms, according to senior administration officials. The officials said intelligence analysts in Washington and Baghdad reached their conclusion about the trailers after analyzing, and rejecting, alternative theories of how they could have been used. Their consensus was in a paper presented to the White House late Monday. [emphasis mine]<hr></blockquote> So it appears the CIA reported initial results of the analysis of the trailers, then Libby dutifully reported those early results to Judy. Gee, I wonder if this report was one of the things Fitzgerald showed Judy during her second grand jury appearance? The time Fitzgerald was demonstrating that Libby had leaked classified things to Judy in the past? In any case, it's the second article with Broad, published two days after Lelyveld arrived, where things get interesting. For the first time, it seems like, Judy's name gets attached to a somewhat balanced article. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Now, intelligence analysts stationed in the Middle East, as well as in the United States and Britain, are disclosing serious doubts about the administration's conclusions in what appears to be a bitter debate within the intelligence community.<hr></blockquote> <a href="http://thenexthurrah.typepad.com/the_next_hurrah/2005/10/what_the_new_yo.html#more">thenexthurrah.typepad.com....html#more</a> Now what's very interesting about this is that these mobile weapons laboratories were debunked by the Observer <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Iraqi mobile labs nothing to do with germ warfare, report finds Peter Beaumont, Antony Barnett and Gaby Hinsliff Sunday June 15, 2003 The Observer An official British investigation into two trailers found in northern Iraq has concluded they are not mobile germ warfare labs, as was claimed by Tony Blair and President George Bush, but were for the production of hydrogen to fill artillery balloons, as the Iraqis have continued to insist. The conclusion by biological weapons experts working for the British Government is an embarrassment for the Prime Minister, who has claimed that the discovery of the labs proved that Iraq retained weapons of mass destruction and justified the case for going to war against Saddam Hussein. Instead, a British scientist and biological weapons expert, who has examined the trailers in Iraq, told The Observer last week: 'They are not mobile germ warfare laboratories. You could not use them for making biological weapons. They do not even look like them. They are exactly what the Iraqis said they were - facilities for the production of hydrogen gas to fill balloons.'<hr></blockquote> <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,977916,00.html">www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/S...16,00.html</a> Can anybody guess who that scientist was? Yes, it was revealled during the Hutton Inquiry that it was David Kelly

by **dbeach** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 7:24 pm

ANTI did ya see my 2 rants at FIREDDOGLAKE?? get it ?she keeps idolizing wilson and/or shes fired hehehe nice job ANTI of leaving her an invitation Lik eto see her..she is very intelligent BUT missing the pt..ALSO ANTI go bang some remarks at CS blog some dude tore up CS and on his own forum. CS called him out. This is gettin fun..HOPE the company don't crash my poncho on the way to work "Mrs KB, I would love to read your opinion of this thread <a href="http://p216.ezboard.com/">p216.ezboard.com/</a> frigorou...icID=1627.topic It will challenge your views antiaristo | 10.26.05 - 3:10 pm | #

by **firstimer** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 7:40 pm

Bingo, And another thank you goes to Anti. Kelly murder motive wrapped up. And now I understand why Wilson didn't get the same treatment as Kelly over here. He was on their team the whole time. His protesting of the Niger intel lended credibility to the Plame-out of Brewster Jennings, apparently just in time. There is probably temporal evidence that ties to the first exposure and the more obvious exposure to some timeline. The withdrawal from Gaza maybe wasn't supposed to really happen? According to Ritter and a few others we should have been at war by then. It didn't make sense that the pullout was insisted upon by Bush, very out of character. Now it does make sense. My question is this was the CIA complicit in the proliferation or was it a rogue faction monitoring,overseeing, assisting, the delivery of the planted evidence that opened the door for war? any ideas? firstimer

by **dbeach** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 7:49 pm

"CIA complicit in the proliferation or was it a rogue faction monitoring" My bet is on rogue factions of CIA FBLIARS and M-5. Have read that many are against the busheviks . Let us pray that they are waiting for the rt moments which cause the least damage to the Republic and leaves the criminal syndicates open for more investigations. ..many at the top are currupt some are honest many of the lesser officers are honest some are corrupt [looking at the govt as a whole inclduing US Military ,CIA FBI and other related govt agencies..

by **OnoI812** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 8:52 pm

Anti- the first time I really took notice of this story and learned about the (speculated)deaths of the overseas agents was in Sept 2003... when I read this; 9-3-3 This is the hottest and most explosive story behind the scenes in Washington in terms of how it could affect the Bush administration. Ambassador Joseph Wilson has been turning up the heat in this situation. He revealed on Friday August 29 in a symposium in Washington the person in the Bush administration, who had leaked it out to the Washington Post that Wilson¥s wife is a CIA agent of 26 years. As a consequence of this leak, her entire team of overseas assets were liquidated. The leaker, it turns out, was none other than the notorious Karl H. Rove, Bush¥s so-called White House advisor. Ambassador Wilson identified him as Karl Roverer, with the umlaut over the "o." According to reliable sources, as well as our own Al Martin Raw.com investigation, Karl Rove is, in fact, the grandson of Karl Heinz Roverer, the gauleiter of Mecklenburg, who was also a partner and senior engineer of Roverer Sud-Deutche Ingenieurb¸ro AG. They built Birchenau, the concentration camp in Nazi Germany. So Karl Rove has been identified as the leaker responsible for the deaths of more than 70 CIA assets overseas (See previous story "Will the Real Chemical Ali Please Stand Up? The Curious Case of Ambassador Joseph Wilson) When Ambassador Wilson was asked how he knew it was Rove, he had documents in his possession identifying Rove as the leaker from a secret investigation of the State Department¥s Internal; Security Unit. It was a from a small clique, four Clinton holdovers in that department of the State Department that were sympathetic to what had happened to Wilson. These investigations could not have possibly been made without at least the tacit acquiescence of Secretary of State Colin Powell. Wilson has announced that he will have his private attorneys petition the Department of Justice demanding that Roverer a/k/a Karl Rove be prosecuted under the 1982 Intelligence Identity Protection Act . This law specifically supposed to prevent what has happened in this case and that is the Bush administration attempting to retaliate against a senior government official who tells the truth about that administration by revealing the identities of intelligence members within their own families. This is a law that was specifically designed to prevent this from happening. It is a law that was proffered by the Democrats in 1982 that the Republicans fought and could not defeat. The law carries an automatic mandatory 10 years to life imprisonment as punishment. And where would Rove go? Karl Rove, it should be noted, is a dual citizen of the United States and Germany. Because of his position he has special diplomatic status. The idea is that if its absolutely necessary he could go to Switzerland where he couldn¥t be extradited. The law specifically states in this case (and this depends on how much Secretary of State Colin Powell is prepared to get involved, if he signs a formal complaint from the State Department, then the Attorney General has no choice but to prosecute. He is required to prosecute, even if he doesn¥t want to do so. This is very explosive and what makes it so explosive is that this Intelligence Identity Act, if it can be proved, and Rove can be successfully prosecuted and if Rove reveals that the president George Bush told him to institute this leak, then the President¥s automatic shield of immunity is removed and the president himself can be prosecuted for murder if any deaths of any US intelligence agents or assets resulted from the leak. This is the only legal statute that has this provision. The Bush Administration is exerting enormous pressure on Colin Powell because he is the real linchpin. They are exerting pressure on him NOT to proceed to file a formal complaint with the Department of Justice. Wilson¥s problem is that he has no greater legal standing than that of a private citizen. The Department of Justice, unbeknownst to anybody, has had a lot of communications with Wilson¥s attorney and they¥re claiming that Wilson has no special status, that he¥s just an everyday citizen, so that any demand he would make for prosecution would carry no more weight than a private citizen or OFU. (OFU is George Bush Senior¥s term to describe the average American citizen. It stands for "One Fodder Unit."<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"> Wilson is saying, however, that when Rove leaked this out, he was still formally employed by the State Department. Wilson, it should be remembered, was the former ambassador during the Clinton Regime, was formally rehired, and he received a paycheck from the Department of State. When these leaks took place he still had another three weeks left on his contract. Therefore he was still a United States Ambassador and that apparently is also a key legal point. When this goes before the US Court of Appeals in Washington and if the court agrees that Wilson was a formal ambassador at the time, then Colin Powell can not refuse to formally petition the Department of Justice for the prosecution of Karl Rove and to open an investigation into the president¥s and vice president¥s role in the affair. Was Rove really the source of the leak? The investigation held thus far by the State Department¥s Internal Security (ISD) has stated that Rove did indeed leak the information out about the Ambassador¥s wife, CIA agent Valerie Wilson, to the Washington Post. Apparently they have an affidavit from the reporter he leaked it to. The way the Bush Regime is trying to quash it is to slow it way down by exerting so much pressure against Pro-Bush Media. Please note that you have not heard one word about this on CNN or MSNBC or Fox News And not one word about this on ABC, CBS, or NBC. If there is no public attention, there will be no steam behind it. Some of the congressmen are trying to push this into higher quarters. They¥re trying to get Howard Dean to talk about it since he¥s getting so much press coverage It¥s been said that Dean is himself frightened to start talking about it because it would diminish the press coverage he¥s been getting. The Bush Administration has let it be known to the Democratic National Committee that any Democrat who tries to push this will find press coverage severely limited. When the Democratic presidential selection process filters out (since there are now nine declared Democrats) and when there is one Democrat that everyone is behind, who¥s going to be the contender, then they won¥t be so frightened. But this is a story, which should be more widely known, since the treatment of Ambassador Wilson and his family (not to mention the US intelligence assets who were liquidated overseas) is certainly one of the most egregious abuses of power yet perpetrated by the Bush administration. Yet. However, who knows what they might do tomorrow? from almartinraw.com now true...The article fails to mention B-J but it was the first time I became aware of the consequences of her outing

by **dbeach** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:27 pm

ONO "According to reliable sources, as well as our own Al Martin Raw.com investigation, Karl Rove is, in fact, the grandson of Karl Heinz Roverer, the gauleiter of Mecklenburg, who was also a partner and senior engineer of Roverer Sud-Deutche Ingenieurb¸ro AG. They built Birchenau, the concentration camp in Nazi Germany. ' this is not true about rover..he is adopted .born in colorado ectt... Al martin was way off on that one although Martin has been rt on on much..he is good source

Wilson and Plame: Victims or Traitors?

really not following your logic, antiaristo

Anti,

Re: really not following your logic, antiaristo

Re: really not following your logic, antiaristo

Aw, rats. Suckered into the big lie AGAIN! ;-)

Anti - EXCELLENT. Let's get this published at CS

Merry Fitzmas Eve to us!

Re: Merry Fitzmas Eve to us!

Hmm comment reposted here

Back to Miller

Re: Back to Miller

cia complicit?

Re: cia complicit?

Re: really not following your logic, antiaristo

Re: really not following your logic, antiaristo

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