Gas Prices: Peak Oil or Oil Company Conspiracy?

by **proldic** » Sat Sep 03, 2005 7:20 pm

Is conspiracy inherently populist? Has anybody noticed the social breakdown of how people are processing high gas prices? These are my experiences, and also that of other people I've talked to during the last few weeks: The majority of self-identified "leftists" (or what have you) are coming from what I'll call -- for expediency's sake -- a "downsize now!"/pro-austerity/"we deserve it" stance. And that stance seems to have "Peak Oil", and a general cultural revulsion, at its core. In general, those type of people seem to have no historical understanding of, and have dismissed and bypassed completely in their analysis -- or are just too damn high-falutin' to believe in -- the existence of an "actual" conspiracy when it comes to petroleum prices. Some have a more nuanced take which acknowledges the corruption, price-rigging, and manipulation, but still doesn't acknowledge that the public perception of "Peak Oil" is being similarly manipulated, to similar effect (In other words, that they themselves may have been manipulated). Mention rigging as an explanation for high gas prices to these types, and they tend to scoff at you initially, and second it to "Peak Oil", underpinned with a reactionary anti-populist "gas prices should be high" set against "our lifestyle". However, Go down to a gas station, stand in line at the supermarket, listen to any conversation in a "non-leftist" place -- and these conversations are happening all over these days -- and it's mainly the non-leftist, "we should try to maintain our lifestyle"- "got plenty-of-oil", mainstream/apolitical independent types (essentially much of the US working class), who are -- often almost instantly -- assuming oil company conspiracy, price-fixing, and anti-trust violations . All populist-communist "memes", btw. They're ANGRY. And they're talking in simple, basic terms about getting the government to re-regulate, and reign in the prices, and putting a check on oil company power in Washington. It's amazing. I've had, heard, or heard about, many conversations like that since I've been taking note (since before Katrina). Same as in the '70's oil crisis as well. It's worth noting how the populist conspiracy fringe like LaRouche was the most vocal on this back then. Rumors of conspiracy abound today. The time is ripe for change. And it's a double-edged sword. Personally, it's seeming to me as if my goals are best served by getting to the "middle", before "National Geographic" -- and most of the modern american "left" --does. Remember what Uncle John Foster "Chip" Berlet warns us: conspiracy & populism go hand in hand.

by **Prac** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 12:23 am

Wake up, people. The root problem facing us now, wherever we are, is that our world, and ultimately our very lives, depend on the operation of highly complex centralised production and distribution systems... and that this depends critically for its operation on the avaibility of OIL. The Peak Oil issue (PsyOp) leaves open the thought that rising energy prices could be due to an externality, something beyond control... the Earth is simply running out of oil in sufficient quantity to meet still rising demand. Or on the other hand, its just another OilCo scam designed to increase margins. This misses the point that the OilCo scam has been with us all along, ff since WWII. With the breakup of Standard Oil, Monopoly gave way to Cartel. Come the end of WWII, the Seven Sisters were able to explot virtually virgin oil field in the Middle East where the all up cost was 4 to 10 cents a barel. The prices paid for petroleum products was based on the costs structure for US oil (about $1.50 per barel). These circa 1962 costs were estimated MA Alderman. Nobody noticed this windfall margin. And so the massively profitable OilCos invested in anything and everything that consumed oil or sustained and enhanced their hegemony. They did well, as illustrated graphically by the prepondence of oil interests in and around the WhiteHouse. And their defence is strong with layers of patsies all lined up to take the rap for anything bad that goes down. They remain safely behind the curtain. All the while, they managed to keep competitors out of the action, most insidiously suppressing the very thought that there may be technologies cheaper than oil that just happened to not be appropriatable. What's done is what's paid for. And the piper calls the tune. The latest and greatest defence these puppeteer Pipers have going for them is Peak Oil. Whilst we argue over that issue, we haven't the time or inclination to look at the fact that the so-called oil market has never been free. Its a scam and the world in which we live so blindly is just a product of that scam. But lets get back to the argument as to whether Peak Oil is real or not. The ultimate diversion. Then we won't notice that we live in a world shaped by the decisions of the super rich, a world that is so dependendent on oil that every Oil Price spike since the 1940's has been followed by recession. How many firms have to go broke, how many people have to loose their jobs, before we wake up. We've been had. We are still being had. Is anyone interested? No, lets get on with this or that argument. As Nero fiddles and the world burns

by **rain** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 1:55 am

it's just b.a.u. - 'business as usual'. Iraq, ( or where-ever). the invasion of a(nother) foreign country, the killing off of, or enslavement, of any people, is just b.a.u.. they know this. they understand it completely. they feel it in their bones, without having to think about it, or feel anything else. and there's not a flicker of guilt or conscience about it. "it's you or me, buddy" and so it will go. your gas-pump jocks are only talking because they feel the dogs nipping at their own heels. and how do they talk about it. murmuring in the ranks. in business terms. the bottom-line. the hip-pocket jerk. they know about corporate mergers and company take-overs. and the likelihood of shedding. even using the word 'incompetence' is a board-room fall-back position. shrubby & co. aren't pirates, or gawd-awful murdering bastards. they're successful businessmen (and women). something to aspire to. "welcome to the Company". "now don't you worry 'bout that now" - Joe Bjelke-Peterson. .

by **proldic** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 2:09 pm

Good one, Prac. What are your feelings on my observations on the breakdown of how people are processing this -- that it seems as if most leftists are actually more resistant to the idea that PO is a scam, whereas the "average joe's" cotton to that idea immediately? If that is reflective of a large group of Americans, does that have any relevance to our current tactical situation? Specifically how we might alter our "messaging" to better reach the masses of working-class people here at home? Does it have any relation to the upswing in populist anti-war sentiment around Sheehan? Rain, I disagree with your analysis, and think it represents a dangerous, and unfortunately popular, line of thinking. I sense you may have a distorted view of the US population. Do you live in the US? Just to remind you, we have not had the benefits of social-democracy, as white folks in Europe and Australia have, like free higher education, strong public welfare, decent mass transit, etc. This idea that the majority of Americans are successful, all of us are yuppies or rich christian ranchers, and the working poor are a minority -- the "millionaire next door" mythos -- is dead wrong. The "business as usual" you refer to is the conspiracy, and the "average joe" intuitively understands this. They are victims of this conspiracy, and have been their whole lives. The ideas you speak of might be found in the wealthier areas, maybe at a gas station in Westchester County or Falls Church, Virginia. But they are the vast minority, believe me. Just to clarify, most of the people I am hearing talking about oil conspiracy these days are lower-middle class folks -- convenience store clerks, waitresses, small farmers, semi-skilled factory workers, cab drivers, independent contractors, single mothers, truckers, etc. It's on us to be able to get it together enough to illuminate a clear and compelling viable alternative, something that is as intuitive to them as the conspiracy is. Until then, it's always going to be "as bad as things are for me, the options I'm being presented for change are foolish pipe dreams, or worse". The grass isn't really greener on the other side. And btw, the more we run down socialism, the more we end up alienating ourselves from the very solutions that are the most pragmatic solutions available to us, and the ones most believable by them. I don't believe the LIE that the statistical majority of the US --who were the people I was refering to -- are "in the ranks" at all. In fact, they are acutely aware of how they will never be able to "aspire" to be a businessperson. They know it "takes money to make money", and they'll never have it. They have resigned themselves to a lifetime of servitude, with the only hope being debt-based materialim to alleviate the drudgery of working all the time, or maybe someday to get their 6th day of work off, or retire before they die. "...shrubby & co. aren't pirates, or gawd-awful murdering bastards." But most working-class people in the US do believe that these days, at the very least the pirate part. "...they feel it in their bones, without having to think about it, or feel anything else. and there's not a flicker of guilt or conscience about it. "it's you or me, buddy"..." I don't see that at all. They do feel guilt deep down, and shouldn't all of us to a degree? But "what good is that they say", "I can't do anything about it". And you know, the sad fact is, without us behind them, they can't. Sure, guilt can be one part of the motivation to move people to action, but anyone planning a campaign around that, directed at people who are not very priviledged or powerful to begin with, is bad bad news. Personally, I don't see much tactical value in the "blame game" when it comes to working-class people. In fact, I don't think they are the real guilty party. Dupes, yes. But that's only going to get us so far. We have to come up with a way to "bridge the gap". And I think that this issue is one of those moments. Go look at my previous post a few weeks ago about the "strange alliances" that USA Today noticed were being formed around the eminent domain battle going on in New London. Sure, many people feel powerless, and are cynical about their own ability to change things beyond a local level. "it's you or me, buddy" So I'm asking: what "memes" do you think will entrench them in that belief more? What "memes" will show them their commonality with others?

by **RollickHooper** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 2:56 pm

I think you're right, proldic, that yer average joe automatically assumes he's being lied to--because he does it himself: he lies to his employer, he lies to his customers, he lies to the IRS, he lies to his spouse and his children because yer average joe believes that it's perfectly acceptable and that everyone does it. And in that light rain is also correct in calling it "business as usual." Some of us have this unrealistic belief that honesty is the better policy--I'm constantly being "accused" of being an Idealist, like it's a bad thing. Whatever.

by **rain** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 3:52 pm

that's a lot of questions in one hit. a couple of thoughts 'straight off the bat'. the strongest, probably one of the most intelligent, creative and energetic 'socialists' I've ever known was a guy from the american north-west. he worked as a lecturer and organiser down here in what's called 'the valley' - open cut coal mining. I was twelve when I first read Marx. he's wrong on the base informing the superstructure. his thoughts on alienation are useful, but assumptive. he appeals to the heart, but one still finds oneself somehow trapped in steel and concrete. that was also the year (not related tho) that I got out of bed one night and announced to my somewhat stunned parents that this 'god' notion that they believed in was wrong. ;'everything is energy'. 'cos that's what I'd seen and understood. memes ? lose 'em. rigorously challenged every one you have and every one you're presented with. de-school. have the courage to contemplate and resonate with every package you are - emotionally, intellectually, perceptually. that's the path to truth and to knowing our 'commonality'. it's late. I'll try to get back to you on some of the others later.

by **proldic** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 5:22 pm

I don't think you got my point about who the "average jane" is. I'm sure you think I'm romanticizing "them". But I'm thinking that you're perpetuating a divide-and-conquer "meme". I feel it's a blessing -- not a curse that I need to shed --that my life experiences have left me with my feet in both worlds, exposed to both sides of the coin, willingly and happily. The idea that I'm getting from what you wrote, is that whatever special group you identify yourself as part of, you are somehow more "honest". Now, my visceral reaction is: "Idealist? Maybe idealizing yourself, but come down off your high horse and join the rest of humanity". Far be it for me to lump you into a category you don't deserve, but I'm suspicious that your stance could be, well, somewhat  dishonest, at least in an unconsidered way. I see it through this lens: I've been going to leftist-meetings, and around academics (both scientific and liberal-arts) in major university areas for a good part of my life. I've seen way more dishonesty, and especially disingenuosness there -- granted of a more sophisticated, veiled, "pretty" type -- than with your "average janes" where I work and live. I'm not saying they don't lie at all, but it's about little things, like cheatin' the IRS (and academic intellectuals don't do that?) -- or lying to their spouses about how much money they spent at the casino, or bragging about what a big man he is to his kids because in school they're being trained by their peers to see working people as losers and he's beat down and he wants them to respect him, and what's wrong with that? -- at least they're not fucking lying about shaping public policy, and the future of the environment and humanity, for gods sake. If anything, my experience says that your "average jane/joe" tends to have slightly more of a personal credo of honesty, and a stronger sense of "honor", at least to family, (despite ignoring "larger" issues) than your average collegiate intellectual or self-identified "leftist", mainly due to the pervasive influence of post-modernism in the western (liberal arts) university system(?). And let's not be so foolish to think that lying, infidelity, shameful secrets, spousal abuse, and incest don't cross class lines, and effect different classes differently. It's just a question of which one we hear about constantly, and which one is covered up thoroughly. I mean, if a person was to watch Cops, or listen to NPR, or stuff like that, I could see how the poor might look to that person. But, again, that's just not the statistical reality.

by **RollickHooper** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 6:26 pm

Exactly why I said "some of us" instead of "The Left." My god, as a former member of the CPUSA I know that "disingenuousness" doesn't respect boundaries (and speaking of boundaries I feel like I've said something that hit a nerve with you and instead of acknowledging what that was your rebuttals are starting to sound like personal attacks and you need to either tell me what's eating you or back off); far from aligning myself with any group, I find myself distancing myself more and more from humanity (my handle on some yahoogroups boards is "ab homine" which means "to position away from Man") and I accept the consequences when doors of opportunity get slammed in my face. This isn't about coalition-building with me, the definition of compromise is nobody gets what they want. I've been hurt bad by other people's dishonesty and so have you. The fact that George W. Bush is a sociopath tells me he's been hurt bad too--you can't say "it's different when you're a world leader shaping public policy" because it isn't--that runty usurper is a product of Barbara and George H.W.Bush, just as sure as you are the product of your own parents. I get crazy when I realize I've been lied to--start listenin' to Slipknot and shit--it makes me mad proldic and I make no apologies for it. Get off my high horse? I'm a centaur baby, ain't no "gettin' off"-- this rant brought to you by Wild Turkey Kentucky Straight Bourbon

by **proldic** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 6:42 pm

am I a magnet for self-admitted angry drunk females or what? That's two in one week on this board. What a charmer I am! <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smokin.gif ALT=":smokin"> ...luckily I'm kinda into that thang... Hey, if you're really angry, this Slipknot kicks that Slipknot's ass: <a href="http://www.revelationrecords.com/releases/13.html">www.revelationrecords.com...es/13.html</a>

by **RollickHooper** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 7:02 pm

proldic, you've made my day. The fact that you think I'm a woman is more encouraging and affirming than you'll ever understand.

by **proldic** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 7:12 pm

however, my point is angry drunks doesn't matter to me which sex <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":p">

by **proldic** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 7:21 pm

I'll admit it's quite telling that because you got me into Loyd DeMause, I assumed you were a woman. But if you'll notice from my threads, that's not from any negative bias. We seem to be on the same side on that one. Really, check out that other Slipknot, though.

by **AnnaLivia** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 7:39 pm

get your facts straight, proldic. i certainly never "admitted" i was drunk, because, in fact, i wasn't. i most certainly do tie one on when i want to, but you are dead wrong about my state of sobriety on the night in question. just letting the facts be known for the sake of accuracy. and now you can thank me for correcting your mistake, if you like. "life is dancehall that's why we've got all those little angels dancin' 'round with pinheads" - Michelle Shocked

by **AnnaLivia** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 8:32 pm

Proldic, even though what you said of me was absolutely not true, it was such a miniscule and petty issue considering what else other posters needed to direct their attention to, that I just plain let it drop. You notice I never said another word…until you just now brought it up directly? I am a peaceful person, pumpkin, but if you think you can poke me with a stick and I will not defend myself with the truth… Think again.

by **Prac** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 6:53 am

Been away for a couple of days and just seen a drift in this thread on to whether or not 2 posters were drunk in charge of a keyboard. Where was I? The Peak Oil PsyOp. You raise interesting questions priodic. Hope the following goes some way towards an answer. The Peak Oil Psyop is designed to divert our attention from the central issue that the world in which we live is the outcome of decisions made by the super-rich. And the the super-rich conspicuously includes the Oil Industry, which enjoyed a quite extraordinary productivity windfall with the opening up of ME oil post WWII. What a wonderful positive feedback loop. All up costs of 4 to 10 cents a barel for ME Oil and end products priced on the basis of pre-war US production costs. And the biggest threat... competition from independendent oil cos getting a cut of the action, thus weekening their power to keep supply of a supremely abundant resource to match increasing demand. The very stability of the oil market depended on their control of taps to maintain this delicate balance. With their vast profits the oil cos diversified into anything that directly or inderectly consumer the product that only they could provide. And they had heaps of money left over... for marketing that more than anything else conveyed the messages that progress (really the world they were creating) was wonderful and if you didn't like it, well get used to it, its inevitable; like globalisation. For those interested in questions like sustainabilty, the concept was accepted, and entombed in government departments. For those interested in so-called alternative energy, they gave us some of that too, the ridiculously expensive nuclear power option for us to argue about on environmental grounds; solar power and wind power and and, all of them only able to compete if oil was above some cost. And so were diverted into arguments about whether Oil and oil products should be taxed. And any sign that someone might have hit on an energy source that could compete with oil and worse, be naturaly disperesed without the requirement of a centralised distribution system; well these signs were ruthlessly supressed, usually by oil company whores in our academic institutions which are as dependent as our politicians on oil (and oil funded and inspired Big Pharma, Corporate Media which would never ever offend an advertiser; and just about everything else). Have I left anything imporatant out. Yes. Governments whose members absolutely has to have massive campaign funds on a scale the only the super rich can muster. Any surprise that so many of those close to and in the WhiteHouse have such strong oil connections. We live in a world that is a machine, fueled by oil, the OilIndustries crowing achievement. And I need to mention the fiat Banker's who to cope with the System's over production are more than happy to extend credit. So it is that people get hooked into debt... at precisely the time that job security is a problem; theyv'e been transformed, into operators of machines, bean counters, or propagandists (I mean marketers) of the systems products. There is no security now as fad after fad emanates from the Modern Management Business schools so richly endowed by the OilCos. People in debt are in no position to challenge, question, or think about the System that has ensaned them. The System is the last thing they can challenge. But despite the fact that the political and marketing systems treat people as if they were just job-holder/consumers, people do kinow that something is seriously ammis. They know the gravy train cannot continue, indefinitely. They know. They know, but the self-referential BIG everything System (BIG Governemt, BIG Media, BIG education) is always telling them that what they know is sort of wrong and WE know what we're doing, WE'll see it through bullshit; those pesky terrorists, WE'll get them). Shit. We're being played on a break. Come hurricane Katrina and they clearly don't know what they're doing. With the aid of think tank planners they've put in place an amazing infrastaructure which they have argued, would keep us safe. And what happened, this wonderful theortically based model took days to get into gear and to start doing anything. To compound the folly of basing disaster managent in theoretically and geographically remote Federal Institutions like FEMA and Homeland security, practical help from people outside this wonderful model was stopped, yes stopped. And so it was that the awful zero-tolerence shoot to kill orders wer given. The Law and Order of the dumbed down super-rich. At root, our problem as cells in a universal organism is the oil fueled imposition of a mechanistic system which is essentially parasitic or the organisim. All this is obvious. People know it but they live in servitude to the machine. There's not much room to move. Let me give an example. In my earlier post, I mentioned the fact that every time there has been a spike in the price of crude oil, it has been followed by economic recession. This is so obvious to people who can easily conceive of the reasons at the level of the firm or corporation, now so acutely dependent on machines to run their business. But where is the discussion of the significance of oil price related recession in the Media. And sadly, is so obvious that it can't raise discussion on forums such as this. The trouble with this is that in our self referential System what's not enshrined in the Media cannot be. And what is enshrined in the Media, subtantiated or not, must be. This applies as much to the internet as to the Mainstream. But Christ, recessions entail bankrupt firms, mean more anti-labour fads being applied against people, their going out of work still in debt to unforgiving banks... they're disasters for the victims... if not to those who stay, a little afraid, still performing duties as directed. Over-population may ultimately be a problem but over-mechanisation is a problem right now. Can we see beyond spurious issues such as Peak Oil... and focuss on the insideous hiding behind the curtain of ready made patsies to be be produced when bad things go down. When the focus is shifted from the patsies and onto the BIG OIL/BIG BANKER scam that has led us to this dreadful impasse, then we may see that the way out is through people, not through the disgusting mechanistic System that stifles our very lives.

Gas Prices: Peak Oil or Oil Company Conspiracy?

Gas Prices: Peak Oil or Oil Company Conspiracy?

Peak Oil — the PsyOP

conspiracy. huh ?

Peak Oil = Psy Op

Both Right

proldic

Rollick

Re: Rollick

my god people this is wild!

Perfect

that's funny

You were enkidu, right?

Re: You were enkidu, right?

Re: setting the record straight

Back to the point- Peak Oil = PsyOp and priodics question

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