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the measure of science

Postby rain » Wed Aug 31, 2005 8:07 pm

<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7915">www.newscientist.com/arti...?id=dn7915</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br> <p></p><i></i>
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What's sauce for the goose...

Postby Avalon » Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:04 am

"Solomon Snyder, senior editor at the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, and a neuroscientist at Johns Hopkins Medical School in Baltimore, US, says most working scientists understand the limitations of published research.<br><br>"When I read the literature, I'm not reading it to find proof like a textbook. I'm reading to get ideas. So even if something is wrong with the paper, if they have the kernel of a novel idea, that's something to think about." <br>(from the New Scientist article linked above)<br><br>That's one reason a lot of people read Richard Hoagland's articles. Not because he always makes sense (because he doesn't) or does his homework, but because he manages to say a lot of things that provoke people to go on to independently research and examine some of the things he's discussed.<br><br>Hoagland can be a real easy straw man to knock down these days. But you've got to know the players, and the politics as well as the ideas. The guys you've chosen to be your waldos for knocking down Hoagland have some baggage to overcome.<br><br>Joe Firmage seems to have dropped out of sight. I tried some of his website links, but he seems to have abandoned them. He became a multi-millionaire in the dotcom boom, and started to pour his money into pet New Age projects. One of the most recent had been Project Voyager, which he was putting together with Carl Sagan's widow Ann Druyan, but that website seems to have gone kablooey too. He seems to have taken RAMS at face value at the time of the link you supplied.<br><br>I don't tend to do much namecalling online. But I've occasionally found reason in the past few years to keep an eye on Robert AM Stephens after his 15 minutes of internet fame for going head to head with Art Bell and Richard Hoagland and I've found him to be quite an unpleasant whacko. I see he has started to refer to himself as an "Agent Provocateur" these days. He's a competent painter/illustrator of NASA subjects and landscapes, but his paintings have all the emotional and intellectual challenge of a Thomas Kinkade calendar. He was obsessed with Hoagland and Bell at one point. It was not a pretty sight.<br><br>"Personally, other than the joy of stirring up trouble and watching these freaks bite at each other, it's one of the great waste of times ever. But so fun to observe such dementia for free from a computer screen.[snip]As long as I am hated by everyone in Strange, I am okay and happy and most relieved. " -- Robert AM Stephens<br><br>Then you linked to Rupert Chappelle, another person with a fanatical hatred of Hoagland. He was last heard of complaining about the implant the police had <br>inserted in his knuckle after they arrested him at "the smokein." Do you think anyone calling Hoagland "Hoaxland" is going to be presenting balanced and objective analysis?<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://groups.google.com/group/alt.drugs.hard/browse_thread/thread/3213d8da4e4">groups.google.com/group/a...213d8da4e4</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br>5ef69/08c82ca35a327cee?lnk=st&q=%22rupert+Chappelle%22+implant&rnum=1&hl=en#08<br>c82ca35a327cee<br><br>The enemies of your enemies are not necessarily your friends.<br><br>You want some intelligent writing on possible evidence of intelligent constructions on Mars, you'd do better to look into the work of Lan Fleming and Mac Tonnies.<br><br><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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philosophy and fascism

Postby prunesquallori » Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:58 am

The main commonality between various "cancerous" ideolgies goes back further than post modernism. The Positivists were a group that (Ayn Rand-style) denied the value of any knowledge except for scientific knowledge. They built churches to science and prayed to Newton, and had incredibly grandiose plans for remaking the world in accordance with their theories. <br><br>Post-modern thought is predicated upon modernity, which is exemplified in Positivism.<br><br>Anyway, the positivists had a HUGE influence... their ideas trickled down to Sayyid Qutb, and Leo Strauss, to name a couple notable writers.<br><br>The positivist fallacy is to deny the reality that exists outside of one's theories. This is abnormal and irrational on it's face; aside from all metaphysical or cultural considerations, information-theoretic limits on the amount of information we can usefully use should put a damper on the Positivist dream of a world run by Reason. Nevermind that theory can never account for the totality of experience, the positivist longs to remove human discretion from every aspect of life.<br><br>When you go to the doctor, does he do anything more than check off a mental checklist of symptoms? (you're lucky if you've got one who uses his brain!) The doctor's dignity and autonomy have been tacitly replaced by a protocol. Same with credit reports, beauracracy of all kinds, the legal system, etc... We see a trend towards increasing systemization and decreased role for human thought.<br><br>Marx noted that the efficiency of production was increasing. Extrapolating, he suggested that, in the future, there would be no competition and all resources would be held in common (well, close enough!) The Stalinists simply said, "We'll bring that future about TODAY!" and began the systemization of a gigantic empire, killing thousands in the process, all because they believed so strongly in thier theories, that any loss of life was considered acceptable. I am not the first to note the similarity to our own American society: the policies of the leaders bear almost no resemblance to actual free-market theory, but use the language and tropes. The PNAC plan for Iraq is a bloody good example; we'll just drop a modern free-market economy onto this country (with no regard for the infrastructure that must be present to support such an economy) and if anything gets in the way, we'll KILL it. A perfect and perfectly rational plan.<br><br>Post-modernism, while promoting relativity (which can, at least phenomenologically, be seen as a "degeneration" of culture), does have the benefit of pointing out the arbitrary nature and flimsy structure of the modern worldview. You can see this in intellectual young hipsters getting excited about Traditionalists and metaphysics again.<br><br>I've hoping to make a comic about the positivists and their impact on society sometime in the next few months. <p></p><i></i>
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an apple a day

Postby rain » Fri Sep 02, 2005 9:51 am

I finally asked the question 'was Katrina steered?'<br>so, where do you go.<br>'why not?',I thought. 'let's see what he's saying this time'<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.enterprisemission.com/weblog/weblog.htm">www.enterprisemission.com...weblog.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>'woo woo' allright. 'stay tuned'. anybody else holding their breath? yep. I thought so.<br><br>Ellie's at least partially correct on how this dovetails nicely into 'mainstream' agendas, but as Avalon so calmly and sensibly pointed out, you have to know the players, politics and ideas. and I'm not sure what you mean Ellie with "science has become chaos". as just a few examples, what are your thoughts on Isaac 'if we have to give them something, we might as well give them this' Newton; or the Kaluza-Klein/Einstein discourse; geometrics and algebraic equations, or someone like Jack Sarfatti? did Crick and Watson just 'lose it', after they'd nicked the work on the double helix, developed it and published it as their own?<br>whilst I view Hoagland as something of an idiot savant, and moreso the former, than the latter, the real problem with 'etheric hyperdimensions', apart from the grammar, is the haute politik. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START 0] --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/alien.gif ALT="0]"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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p.s.

Postby rain » Fri Sep 02, 2005 9:53 am

do, if you have a moment, read at least some of the 442 (at last count) comments.<br> <p></p><i></i>
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