Scientist proposes chemtrail solution to global warming

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just float together

Postby rain » Tue Aug 01, 2006 2:49 am

<!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://www.intriguing.com/mp/_pictures/compdiff/poser.jpg" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--><br>'Which bush is Mr E.W. Lambert behind?'<br><br> Scientist publishes 'escape route' from global warming<br><br>By Steve Connor, Science Editor<br>Published: <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>31 July 2006</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: just float together

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:17 am

How is it that the single scientist least likely to promote adding sulfur to the Earth's atmosphere is suddenly doing just that...according to the press and, of course, they never lie.<br><br>Sulfur dioxide and nitrogen dioxide cause acid rain and the very hole in the ozone layer over the north pole that Crutzen won his Nobel Prize for confirming and coming up with a fix-it plan.<br><br>Even the US House of Representatives made a show of addressing this problem back in 1999 while trying to let automakers off the sulfur hook-<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.house.gov/science/calvert_072199.htm">www.house.gov/science/calvert_072199.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>OPENING STATEMENT<br><br>CHAIRMAN KEN CALVERT<br><br>ENERGY AND ENVIRONMENT SUBCOMMITTEE<br><br>Hearing<br><br>on<br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Reducing Sulfur in Gasoline and Diesel Fuel<br></strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br>July 21, 1999<br><br>2318 Rayburn House Office Building<br><br>This is the first in a series of three hearings on automotive fuels planned by the Energy and Environment Subcommittee. This hearing will focus on sulfur, while the next two will be on reformulated gasoline and fuels for the future.<br><br>There is nothing good that can be said about sulfur in gasoline and diesel. It is a source of several criteria air pollutants--its presence in fuels contributes to both emissions of NOx, an ozone precursor, and particulate matter. I think all the witnesses here will agree that reducing sulfur in fuels is a good thing. There is disagreement, however, on the amount of the reduction, the schedule for implementation, and whether EPA should employ a national or a regional approach.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>If you saw the data that was presented in 'An Inconvenient Truth,' <br>you know that Global Warming looks a lot like a genuine War of the Worlds disaster just barely beginning to unfold, quite worthy of inciting us to all stop supporting the status quo.<br><br>And there has been massive amounts of disinformation around the topic for the last 10 years starting with tobacco company-like denials to keep the US from signing the Kyoto Treaty and to act as a psychic shock-absorber by letting the awareness sink into the body politic slowly without any changes in the status quo.<br><br>So it is rational to wonder if a key scientist flipping one of his keywords from a negative to a plus is part of managing the masses in the year of 'An Inconvenient Truth.'<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: just float together

Postby wintler » Tue Aug 01, 2006 7:01 am

Releasing sulphur across an area in the upper atmosphere is not the same thing as emitting it for decades from a chimney on the ground, by the time it (SOx?) settles down to the troposphere i'd imagine it would be much diluted. Its not like theres many forests left anyway, and climate change is killing them quicker than we can cut them down, so any acid rain probably comes under 'lesser evil' in the cost benefit analysis. <br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/article1191880.ece">news.independent.co.uk/en...191880.ece</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>I'd support it, so long as we try absolutely everything else first (and start with a 90% cut in first world energy and resource consumption).<br><br>Just for the record Hugh, the first and biggest ozone hole is over the ANTarctic, is caused by chlorine and bromine compounds, (not sulfur dioxide and nitrogen dioxide), and has little or no known relationship to anthropogenic greenhouse or acid rain. <br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.atm.ch.cam.ac.uk/tour/part3.html">www.atm.ch.cam.ac.uk/tour/part3.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.theozonehole.com/">www.theozonehole.com/</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone_depletion">en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone_depletion</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Wintler's clarifications

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Tue Aug 01, 2006 1:15 pm

Thanks for that. Um, I knew it was one of those poles out there.<br><br>Yes, sulfur isn't key to the ozone problem but is to the acid rain problem killing forests and lakes.<br><br>I suppose I can see the 'sacrifice play of lesser evils theory' for dealing with global warming which is the biggest problem humans have been up against for eons and is happening in our lifetimes, a truly horrific crisis of almost unimaginable proportions.<br><br>Which is why I expect even more mass psychology tactics than all the disinfo which has been poo-pooing the very idea of global warming for the last 10 years while public acceptance slowly built up. By the time Newsweek and Time admitted the problem most Americans already believed it was real and the status quo has been preserved. Mission accomplished.<br><br>So perhaps just the timing of this article is suspicious if not the content.<br><br>But I also noticed in this article another keyword-P.R crisis relationship.<br><br>A suggested way to infuse the atmosphere with sulfur was using <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>"weather balloons and artillary shells."<br></strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br>Those key words happened to be at the center of the 'no WMD in Iraq' scandal since Colin Powell insisted that satellite photos showed a portable bioweapons lab but then it turned out to be...trucks for <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>weather balloons to adjust the aim of artillary shells.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>So both <!--EZCODE UNDERLINE START--><span style="text-decoration:underline">'9/11 controlled demolition'</span><!--EZCODE UNDERLINE END--> and <!--EZCODE UNDERLINE START--><span style="text-decoration:underline">'no WMD in Iraq'</span><!--EZCODE UNDERLINE END--> are sharing key words with the central topic in this article.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br>Just a coincidence I suppose. Lots of words in lots of articles, right? lol.<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :p --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":p"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=hughmanateewins>Hugh Manatee Wins</A> at: 8/1/06 11:17 am<br></i>
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Re: Wintler's clarifications

Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Tue Aug 01, 2006 1:25 pm

hugh, will you kindly STFU about the goddamned keyjacking crap, please? The 'weather ballon and artillery shelling' tricks have been in circulation every since "Policy Implications of Greenhouse Warming: Mitigation, Adaptation, and the Science Base" was published back in 1992. If your universe was the 'correct' one, 9/11 is a smoke-screen/keyword jacking attempt to obfuscate the Mitigation/Spraying programs.<br><br>IS that really how you want your(lack of) logic defended? <p>____________________<br>Some are born to sweet delight, some are born to endless night.</p><i></i>
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Re: "Hugh, would you kindly STFU..."

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Tue Aug 01, 2006 2:11 pm

Well, since you put it that way...no. Jeez, try to see the bigger picture I'm implying when I refer to keyword hijacking. I'm pointing to <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>the context</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> of a massive culture of obscuration and disinformation, <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>not away from the cited subject of the article.<br></em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br>Thanks for the 1992 reference despite your terseness.<br><br> My point about the timing of articles and the importance of managing public reaction to the 'end of the world as we know it' stands. That is my point. "Look out for being managed" and that can include true information. Much perception management does use white propaganda, not black.<br><br>There are lots of mixed messages on the topic, some due the multiplicity of inter-related systems and the need to prioritize and some just as doubt-seeding and confusion-seeding.<br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Confusion repels observation.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br>This tactic has been used many times with foods, tobacco, you name it. "It's bad for you. No, it's good for you. No, really it's..." and the public stops trying to even pay attention. <br><br>"Aw, we all die sometime. Just enjoy yourself."<br><br>That said, here's the 1992 paper hypothesizing about using sulfur in cloud cover to increase reflective properties, a topic debated fo r years now-<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://airapparent.ca/library/abstract/policystudy.htm">airapparent.ca/library/ab...ystudy.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Changing Cloud Abundance<br><br>"Independent studies estimated that an approximately 4 percent increase in the coverage of marine stratocumulus clouds would be sufficient to offset CO2 doubling (Reck, 1978; Randall et al., 1984). Albrecht (1989) suggests that the average low-cloud reflectivity could be increased if the abundance of cloud condensation nuclei (CCN) increased due to emissions of SO2."<br><br>"It is proposed that CCN emissions should be released over the oceans, that the release should produce an increase in the stratocumulus cloud albedo only, and that the clouds should remain at the same latitudes over the ocean where the surface albedo is relatively constant and small."<br><br>"Cloud stimulation by provision of cloud condensation nuclei appears to be a feasible and low-cost option capable of being used to mitigate any quantity of CO2 equivalent per year."<br><br>"Details of the cloud physics, verification of the amount of CCN to be added for a particular degree of mitigation, and the possible acid rain or other effects of adding CCN over the oceans need to be investigated before such system is put to use."<br><br>"Once a decision has been made, the system could be mobilized and begin to operate in a year or so, and mitigation effects would be immediate. If the system were stopped, the mitigation effect would presumably cease very rapidly, within days or weeks, as extra CCN were removed by rain and drizzle."<br><br>"Several schemes depend on the effect of additional dust compounds in the stratosphere or very low stratosphere screening out sunlight. Such dust might be delivered to the stratosphere by various means, including being fired with large rifles or rockets or being lifted by hydrogen or hot-air balloons. These possibilities appear feasible, economical, and capable of mitigating the effect of as much CO2 equivalent per year as we care to pay for. (Lifting dust, or soot, to the tropopause or the low stratosphere with aircraft may be limited, at low cost, to the mitigation of 8 to 80 Gt CO2 equivalent per year.)"<br><br>" Such systems could probably be put into full effect within a year or two of a decision to do so, and mitigation effects would begin immediately."<br><br>"Because dust falls out naturally, if the delivery of dust were stopped, mitigation effects would cease within about 6 months for dust (or soot) delivered to the tropopause and within a couple of years for dust delivered to the midstratosphere."<br><br>"Sunlight screening systems would not have to be put into practice until shortly before they were needed for mitigation, although research to understand their effects, as well as design and engineering work, should be done now so that it will be known whether these technologies are available if wanted."<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Imagine how this can be used to justify burning the huge amounts of cheap coal loaded with sulfur.<br><br>Already Time Magazine tried to suggest using more nuclear power in its issue that admitted global warming was real.<br><br>The P.R industry will use every excuse it can to continue the status quo and even make it worse.<br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>So pay attention to keywords which have big negative connotations when they are presented as big positive attributes.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br>Fair enough? <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Hugh

Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Tue Aug 01, 2006 2:36 pm

I'd rather pay attention to the topic under discussion if that's ok with you. Seriously, I don't mean to be 'terse', but it would be really great if you could focus on thread topics a bit more. In regards to this one, the largest 'confusion' element introduced is the one you're orchestrating right now. How do you propose to raise awareness of these alledged techniques when you so vociferously employ them yourself, eh?<br><br>:P <p>____________________<br>Some are born to sweet delight, some are born to endless night.</p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=etinarcadiaego@rigorousintuition>et in Arcadia ego</A>  <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://www.sickle666.com/images/Arcadia.jpg" BORDER=0> at: 8/2/06 2:00 am<br></i>
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Re: hugh

Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Tue Aug 01, 2006 2:43 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Imagine how this can be used to justify burning the huge amounts of cheap coal loaded with sulfur.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>By the way, using 'spiked coal' in power plants is also a proposition in the GeoEngineering chapter of that 1992 publication; see chapter 28. <p>____________________<br>Some are born to sweet delight, some are born to endless night.</p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=etinarcadiaego@rigorousintuition>et in Arcadia ego</A>  <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://www.sickle666.com/images/Arcadia.jpg" BORDER=0> at: 8/2/06 2:00 am<br></i>
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Re: et in Arcadia ego's chemtrail knowledge

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Tue Aug 01, 2006 2:57 pm

I see in your other posts that you moderated a chemtrails site so obviously you have lots of info on the topic. You also write that you got burned out on the nonsense and disruption that fogged the topic so I can understand your attitude.<br><br>I would just add that I'm not trying to obscure one topic with another when I try to see if that is what is happening. No, I don't want to become the monster I fight. But disinfo is cross-marketed and keywords and themes are the links that tie good info to bad feelings or bad info to good feelings etc.<br><br>I'm grateful for any info you have on the history of managing the topic of global warming using chemtrails as the handle. <br><br>I got lots of confirmation about how common disinfo is from watching all of it for <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>what I thought was just an effort to stay out of the Kyoto Treaty</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> but now that I see how serious global warming really is I see there is psychic shock-absorption to prevent 'War of the Worlds'-style panic and a political shake up.<br><br>In fact, I'm reading Hadley Cantril's 1940 book about his Princeton Radio Project's study of the effects of that 1938 Halloween broadcast by Orson Welles and the panic that followed. One can extrapolate how war and other issues (like 9/11) are massaged in the public's mind to either incur or prevent stampedes.<br><br>Global warming is the biggest baddest monster in the valley of the shadow... <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=hughmanateewins>Hugh Manatee Wins</A> at: 8/1/06 1:03 pm<br></i>
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Re: et in Arcadia ego's chemtrail knowledge

Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Tue Aug 01, 2006 3:29 pm

Here's some logic to chew on. De-regulation has been pretty much a perpetual agenda since Bush took office(and before, if we're gonna be honest). When the Kyoto Treaty was rejected by Bush, it had to have been done for a good reason, comments about Bush's idiocy are not acceptable propositions. If you read Teller's University paper, which was <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>commissioned</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> by the US Government as solicting solutions to Global Warming(the same global warming that Bush denied as existing), you'll see that Teller did a significant amount of number crunching on more than one detail, among them was a comparisson between an aluminum deposition program versus heavy corporate regulations.<br><br>The ratio of expense was something like 10:1.<br><br>Finding the Teller PDF is tricky business, but if I come across it I'll post a link here as it's essential reading. Keep in mind as well, if you want to slice through the bullshit, you need to address this stuff in the proper terminology or your research will fall flat on it's face.<br><br>Some names and terms of interest:<br><br>Edward Teller<br><br>Veerabhadran Ramanathan (who first proposed using planes as depositories.)<br><br>Radiative forcing = Man-made effects on enviornment<br><br>Direct Forcing = Deliberate effects on enviornment, ie: GeoEngineering<br><br> <p>____________________<br>Some are born to sweet delight, some are born to endless night.</p><i></i>
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Re: et in Arcadia ego's chemtrail knowledge

Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:05 pm

Another publication worth finding:<br><br>"Impact of geoengineering schemes on the terrestrial biosphere", by Govindasamy, B.; Thompson, S.; Duffy, P. B.; Caldeira, K.; Delire, C.<br><br>Abstract:<br><br>"Climate stabilization via ``Geoengineering'' schemes seek to mitigate climate change due to increased greenhouse gases by compensating reduction in solar radiation incident on earth's surface. In this paper, we address the impact of these climate stabilization schemes on terrestrial biosphere using equilibrium simulations from a coupled atmosphere-terrestrial biosphere model. Climate stabilization would tend to limit changes in vegetation distribution brought on by climate change, but would not prevent CO2-induced changes in Net Primary Productivity (NPP) or biomass; indeed, if CO2 fertilization is significant, then a climate-stabilized world could have higher NPP than our current world. Nevertheless, there are many reasons why geoengineering is not a preferred option for climate stabilization."<br>_________________<br><br>Also, here is a direct link to the complete article from Nobel laureate Paul Crutzen from the Max Planck Institute for Chemistry in Germany and the Scripps Institution of Oceanography, University of California at San Diego. He most certainly doesn't appear to have a crackpot's credentials..<br><br>link in PDF format:<br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://springerlink.metapress.com/(cifs1mrnvssf1y55xtx04545)/app/home/content.asp?referrer=contribution&format=2&page=1&pagecount=0">Link</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br>*note that he immediatelt cites Ramanathan's early papers. <p>____________________<br>Some are born to sweet delight, some are born to endless night.</p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=etinarcadiaego@rigorousintuition>et in Arcadia ego</A>  <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://www.sickle666.com/images/Arcadia.jpg" BORDER=0> at: 8/1/06 6:06 pm<br></i>
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Re: Scientist proposes chemtrail solution to global warming

Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:40 pm

<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2000-09/NS-TdtS-1909100.php">www.eurekalert.org/pub_re...909100.php</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>More GeoEngineering discussion from Caldeira that predates this topic's article(Sept 2000).<br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"Teller and Wood are technical optimists, and pessimists about human behaviour," says Caldeira, who saw Wood present their work in 1998, and was disturbed by the re-emergence of these Sun-blocking proposals. "My hope was to show that it wouldn't work," he says, "so people would give up on it."</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> <p>____________________<br>Some are born to sweet delight, some are born to endless night.</p><i></i>
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Re: Edward Teller's Livermore Labs paper on scattering

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Wed Aug 02, 2006 3:48 am

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Teller did a significant amount of number crunching on more than one detail, among them was a comparisson between an aluminum deposition program versus heavy corporate regulations.<br><br>The ratio of expense was something like 10:1.<br><br>Finding the Teller PDF is tricky business,<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>I've got a link to the Teller paper put out by Livermore Labs below and read that paper atleast two years ago so I've had global warming science on my radar for a while. Then one day in November 2005 I looked up and there they were. I watched the planes lay them down all Fall, Winter, and into the Spring.<br><br>In quick succession I found Senate Bill 517, the disinfo artist known as Scott Stevens at weatherwars.com, and the companion Nicolas Cage movie called 'The Weatherman.' <br><br>And I'd worked at the building near here where Al Gore did his powerpoint slide show two years ago so I've had a face full of this stark reality.<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.rense.com/general18/scatteringEdTellerwithnotes.pdf">www.rense.com/general18/s...hnotes.pdf</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>Yes, it is a Rense.com link but it's good anyway and this is the only link I've found to Teller's paper, too.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Global Warming and Ice Ages<br><br>1. Prospects for Physics-based Modulation of Global Change<br><br>E. Teller<br>R. Wood<br>R. Hyde<br><br>This paper was prepared for submittal to the 22nd International Seminar on Planetary Emergencies<br><br>Erice (Sicily), Italy<br>August 20-23, 1997<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>So "planetary emergencies" were discussed since 1975?<br>I wonder what started this.<br><br>Since the US and Soviet Union set off high-altitude nukes and replaced the Van Allen Belts in 1962, I wonder of there were any seminars about that? Probably not.<br><br>What did that do to the ozone layer? And global warming?<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.nap.edu/books/0309076420/html/73.html">www.nap.edu/books/0309076...ml/73.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>The experimentation reached its absurd, Dr. Strangelove-style climax with the Starfish High Altitude Nuclear Test program in 1962. From an island near the equator in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, the United States launched a 1.4-megaton nuclear bomb about 300 miles into space. The explosion supercharged the Van Allen radiation belts and created artificial belts 100 to 1000 times stronger than normal space radiation levels. The high-energy electrons damaged the solar arrays of several satellites and caused three of them to fail. The electromagnetic pulse generated by the test led to power surges in electrical cables in Hawaii, blowing fuses, streetlights, and circuit breakers. Residual radiation from the experiment lingered in the magnetosphere for nearly seven years.<br><br>The Argus and Starfish tests were a stern warning to the nascent satellite industry and to military leaders that space might be a dangerous and difficult place to work.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Edward Teller's Livermore Labs paper on scattering

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Wed Aug 02, 2006 3:55 am

I heard a rumour re those VA belt nukes.<br><br>That the Yanks did a test over antarctica, and when the soviets asked for the results they refused to release them.<br><br>So they did their own version up north.<br><br>Dunno how to take that rumour tho. The individual who told me thought those tests were the sole reason for the hole in the ozone layer. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Edward Teller's Livermore Labs paper on scattering

Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Wed Aug 02, 2006 3:55 am

Right on, that's(Rense) the only place I found it last time I looked as well. <p>____________________<br>Some are born to sweet delight, some are born to endless night.</p><i></i>
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