Is bird flu winding down?

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Is bird flu winding down?

Postby marykmusic » Mon Dec 12, 2005 12:24 pm

In my opinion, 70 Asian deaths since 2003 is not a really scary thing, certainly not the epidemic that has been screamed about, nor a pandemic in an area of nearly 2 billion people. Shoot, there are probably more deaths due to snakebites in any two-year stretch in Asia.<br><br>Here's an indication to me that the panic is unfounded: <br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>JOHANNESBURG — A conservation group said on Thursday there was little evidence to back the view that migrating wildfowl were spreading bird flu and said that eastern Europe's outbreak probably stemmed from poultry imports. <hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>"As the year draws to a close, millions of wild birds have flown to their wintering sites across Asia, Africa, Europe and the Americas without the widely predicted outbreaks of H5N1 bird flu associated with their migration routes," BirdLife International said in a statement. <hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>"The most obvious explanation is that migrating wild birds are not spreading the disease," said Dr Michael Rands, Director and Chief Executive of BirdLife. <hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>The rest of the story is <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.enn.com/today.html?id=9424" target="top">here.</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> --MaryK <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Is bird flu winding down?

Postby dbeach » Mon Dec 12, 2005 12:30 pm

bird flu from the chickenhawks<br><br>such a scare tactic <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Is bird flu winding down?

Postby GDN01 » Mon Dec 12, 2005 2:07 pm

This is good news, but it doesn't do much to make me feel less concerned (or more concerned) about the possibility of a bird flu pandemic. Here's why - I never believed the threat of the bird flu was from natural developments with the virus - how it spreads and/or mutates. I've always thought the panic was being maufactured, just as the virus is/has, or will be. If the PTB want the bird flu to start spreading from human to human, it will happen. I've always thought, since the whole media hype began, that the only reason for this kind of panic is that there has already been a human to human transmission that we aren't being told about, and very few know about. <br><br>In another thread that didn't get many responses, I asked a few questions that I will repeat here. <br>1. What methods are used to "cull" the bird and poultry populations in suspected areas? Esepcially in heavily populated areas?<br>2. What impact could these methods have on the environment?<br>3. Has anyone seen any remarks about the effect the mass killing of birds will have on our eco systems - could it create an imbalance, producing more rodents and bugs, spreading disease that way? I keep hearing of 100's of thousands of birds and poultry being exterminated and not much about the repucussions of doing this. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Is bird flu winding down?

Postby manxkat » Mon Dec 12, 2005 7:22 pm

I have the same suspicions you do GDN01, and likely these sentiments are shared by many others on this forum. And, those are good questions you posed. I was wondering about the effect of mass killings of poultry too. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Is bird flu winding down?

Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Mon Dec 12, 2005 7:55 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Preferred culling methods will vary depending on circumstances such as the number, species and location of the birds, layout of the farm or poultry house, staff availability etc", said the document.<br><br>"Methods of killing that might be used are: exposure of birds to gas; percussion devices; barbiturate injection; electrical stun/kill; neck dislocation; maceration."<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/4351592.stm">news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_ne...351592.stm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>Sounds inventive..Paging Dr Megele..<br><br>I wonder how much pollution would arise from the burning of a bio-mass consisting of few hundred thousand birds.. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Is bird flu winding down?

Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:02 pm

<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.oie.int/eng/AVIAN_INFLUENZA/discussion%20paper%20(Galvin).pdf">www.oie.int/eng/AVIAN_INF...alvin).pdf</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>A pdf file that goes into detail on suggested culling methods but stops short of describing the "disposal site".<br><br>Source:<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.oie.int/eng/AVIAN_INFLUENZA/carcass.htm">www.oie.int/eng/AVIAN_INF...arcass.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Is bird flu winding down?

Postby Col Quisp » Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:02 pm

Great info on culling methods. Thanks, GDN01 for bringing this up. <br><br>There are more reported human deaths from bird flu than 70, although still it's a low number. HOWEVER, we can't be sure that China is giving us the true numbers. Also, many may not be recognized as having H5N1. I think they know more than they're telling us, though. Otherwise, why spend all this time and effort on pandemic preparations. Whether manufactured or natural, it will become widespread and pass between humans. It's just a matter of time. We're due for a pandemic. Also, our president was reading about the 1918 pandemic over the summer. So, it MUST be coming!<br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Is bird flu winding down?

Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:52 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Also, our president was reading about the 1918 pandemic over the summer.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>I'm soooo glad to FINALLY see someone else take that little news blurb seriously..<br><br>Everytime I mentioned it I got the usual Dumbya jokes..<br><br>I don't laugh at Dumbya jokes, and I especially did not find it amusing that he was brushing up on Decimation Theory while on 'vacation'.. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Is bird flu winding down?

Postby marykmusic » Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:15 pm

In the big chicken houses in Florida and Arkansas that I've been neighbor to, a pile of dead birds is usually somewhere not too far from the chicken house itself. I've seen a couple thousand birds in a pile... and the varmints (no doubt including rats, bugs and other natural scavengers) abounded. We got lots of calls to go coon hunting, starting at the piles behind chicken houses. There was really no effort to be clean about it... of course, that was 10 to 12 years ago. --MaryK <p></p><i></i>
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re: correlates: bird flu < GMO grain

Postby hanshan » Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:43 am

<br><br>can no longer find the article suggesting<br>a correlation between the development of <br>H5N1 in Asian birds + the importaion of GMO<br>grain as feedstocks. Google search is <br>practically useless as it's inundated w/<br>pro bio-tech trash.<br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://clusty.com/" target="top">Clusty</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> turned :<br><br>[<!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://pacifichealth.info/healthblog/2005/09/06/health-problems-in-rats-fed-genetically-engineered-corn/" target="top">b]Health Problems In Rats Fed Genetically Engineered Corn[/b]</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br>MONSANTO “CONFIDENTIAL REPORT” REVEALS HEALTH PROBLEMS IN RATS FED GENETICALLY ENGINEERED CORN <br><br><br><br>By Geoffrey Lean<br><br>Environment Editor The Independent (London)<br><br>22 May 2005<br><br><br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Health fears over secret study into GM food Rats fed GM corn due for sale in Britain developed abnormalities in blood and kidneys.<br><br>Rats fed on a diet rich in genetically modified corn developed abnormalities to internal organs and changes to their blood, raising fears that human health could be affected by eating GM food.<br><br><br>The Independent on Sunday can today reveal details of secret research carried out by Monsanto, the GM food giant, which shows that rats fed the modified corn had smaller kidneys and variations in the composition of their blood.<br><br>According to the confidential 1,139-page report, these health problems were absent from another batch of rodents fed non-GM food as part of the research project.<br><br>The disclosures come as European countries, including Britain, prepare to vote on whether the GM-modified corn should go on sale to the public. A vote last week by the European Union failed to secure agreement over whether the product should be sold here, after Britain and nine other countries voted in favour.<br><br>However, the disclosure of the health effects on the Monsanto rats has intensified the row over whether the corn is safe to eat without further research. Doctors said the changes in the blood of the rodents could indicate that the rat’s immune system had been damaged or that a disorder such as a tumour had grown and the system was mobilising to fight it.<br><br>Dr Vyvyan Howard, a senior lecturer on human anatomy and cell biology at Liverpool University, called for the publication of the full study, saying the summary gave “prima facie cause for concern”.<br><br>Dr Michael Antoniu, an expert in molecular genetics at Guy’s Hospital Medical School, described the findings as “very worrying from a medical point of view”, adding: “I have been amazed at the number of significant differences they found [in the rat experiment].”<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br><br><br><!--EZCODE CENTER START--><div style="text-align:center">The Independent (London)<br><br>22 May 2005</div><!--EZCODE CENTER END--><br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Dr Arpad Pusztai was then the bogeyman of the British scientific establishment. No less a figure than Lord May – then the Government’s chief scientific adviser, now president of the Royal Society – had accused him of violating “every canon of scientific rectitude”, and ministers and top scientists had queued up to denounce him.<br><br>His crime had been to find disturbing evidence that the GM potatoes he was studying damaged the immune systems, brains, livers and kidneys of rats – and to mention it briefly in a television programme before his research was completed and published.<br><br>His punishment was draconian; his research was stopped, his team disbanded and his data confiscated. He was ostracised by his colleagues, forced into retirement and gagged for seven months, forbidden to put his case. I was the first journalist to interview him at length, spending six hours with him.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br><br>.... <p></p><i></i>
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Isnt it amazing.

Postby slimmouse » Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:30 pm

<br><br> Amazing, yet just about a quaint summary of the way our world works;<br><br> <!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr> His crime had been to find disturbing evidence that the GM potatoes he was studying damaged the immune systems, brains, livers and kidneys of rats – and to mention it briefly in a television programme before his research was completed and published.<br><br> His punishment was draconian; his research was stopped, his team disbanded and his data confiscated. He was ostracised by his colleagues, forced into retirement and gagged for seven months, forbidden to put his case. I was the first journalist to interview him at length, spending six hours with him.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br> That is to say, that Science defends the use of animal experiments and research by arguing that there is absolutely no substitute for such researching for the "benefit" of mankind - Unless of course someone comes up with such evidence as above, in which case they become confined to the ever growing scrap heap of discarded, ridiculed, and suicided scientists investigating everything from cures for cancer, to the REAL effects of GM food, E numbers, "Pharmaceutical" toxins, free energy, et cetera et cetera.<br><br> The trouble being of course that in many cases there are WAY too many benefits for the bulk of mankind, over the Multicorporate madmen and other elite who prod us around like the cattle they percieve us to be.<br><br> Just further proof, if that were needed, I guess. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Isnt it amazing.

Postby marykmusic » Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:31 pm

GM crops are used in nearly all animal feed, and in as many people foods as they can get away with.<br><br>Hot-button issue here at our house. <br><br>The molecular structure is changed, and then it is no longer an assimilable substance (microwaves do something similar.) The first thing to go is the immune system.<br><br>Wonder why everybody's a little less healthy than we used to be? And so are our pets...<br><br>Garbage in, garbage out. --MaryK <p></p><i></i>
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re: irradiation & that long gone glow

Postby hanshan » Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:49 pm

<br><br><br>as long as we're on the subject<br>of adulterating food crops, food <br>products & produce, & the enormously damaging<br>effects on human/animal health :<br><br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.greenmediatoolshed.org/training/DistributionMethodsAndMaterials/BackgroundMaterials.adp" target="top"><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>"Food Irradiation Summary Sheet"<br>What are Irradiated</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> <br><br><br> The exposure of food products to radiation energy such as X-rays, electron beams and gamma rays is used as a means of preservation. The high-energy, invisible lightwaves are used to cause physical and chemical changes in the food increasing the product's shelf life.<br>- National Food Safety Database, Biotechnology and Food <br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>The Facts</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> <br><br>Irradiation is expensive, adding as much as five cents per pound to the cost of ground beef according to USDA estimates. <br>Not all microorganisms, such as the bacteria that causes botulism, toxins and viruses, are destroyed as a result of irradiation. <br>- National Food Safety Database, Biotechnology and Food <br>Foods treated with irradiation may experience nutrient loss. Vitamins A, E, C, K Thiamin (B-1) are very sensitive to radiation.<br>- National Food Safety Database, Biotechnology and Food <br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Consumer Information</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> <br><br>According to a 1996 poll, 92% of the population said they wanted to know if the food they were purchasing was treated by irradiation.<br>-Center for Science in the Public Interest Report <br>Since 1986 food manufacturers have been required by the FDA to label all irradiated foods with a logo, however H.R. 2469, the Food and Nutrition Information Reform Act would remove the labeling mandate. This would allow consumers to unknowingly purchase irradiated food products. <br>-Center for Science in the Public Interest Report <br><br>The present labeling mandates on irradiated foods apply to the sale of food on the packing/wholesale and retail levels. Without sufficient labeling, food can undergo the irradiation process more than once. Currently, wholesale irradiated foods caution the market with "do not irradiate again."<br>-National Food Safety Database, Biotechnology and Food <br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Hazards</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> <br><br> Children and animals fed newly irradiated food demonstrated polyploidy, a condition in which cells contain more than their normal set of chromosomes.<br>-Food Irradiation: What are the hazards?, Vanguard Sciences <br> When irradiated chicken was fed to mice during one of 12 USDA studies, the specimens "showed an increase in testicular tumors, lesions including cancer, kidney disease, and reduced life-spans". <br>-Food Irradiation: What are the hazards?, Vanguard Sciences <br> The fungus-generated carcinogens, Alfatoxins, were found in elevated levels in irradiated foods in several studies. Alfatoxins are 1,000 times more carcinogenic than some pesticides that irradiation is meant to replace. <br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>-Food Irradiation: What are the hazards?, Vanguard Sciences</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> <br><br> Microorganisms such as bacteria and viruses may develop a resistance to radiation, leading to the development of new strains of organisms.<br>-Food Irradiation: What are the hazards?, Vanguard Sciences <br> More than one preservation technique may be used before foods ever reach the consumer. For example, fruits may be irradiated to extend their shelf-life before being canned. This double dose will further deplete the nutritional value of the food.<br>-Food Irradiation: What are the hazards?, Vanguard Sciences <br> Meats contaminated with bacteria such as botulism may appear healthy. When the irradiation process kills the spoiling bacteria (which normally warn the consumer of contamination) the harmful bacteria continue to thrive.<br>-Food Irradiation: What are the hazards?, Vanguard Sciences [/quote] <br><br><br>... <p></p><i></i>
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Culling Methods

Postby GDN01 » Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:46 pm

Here is the quote Col Quisp provided in the earlier <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://p216.ezboard.com/frigorousintuitionfrm10.showMessage?topicID=2274.topic">post</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> that I mentioned that raised concerns for me. This is happening in residential areas, not just poultry farms.<br><br>"MOSCOW, Dec. 9 (Xinhuanet) -- The bird flu virus found in Ukraine has been confirmed as the deadly strain of H5N1, a Russian agriculture official said Friday.<br><br>"This is so-called Asian strain H5N1 that poses a potential threat to man," Russian chief agriculture inspector Sergei Dankvert told the Itar-Tass news agency, referring to the virus found in Ukraine and sent to the All-Russia Research Institute of Animal Protection for testing.<br><br>Ukraine is also waiting for results of laboratory tests in Britain next week.<br><br>Ukraine recorded its first case of bird flu Saturday and the disease has spread rapidly across parts of the Crimea peninsula in the past week. Ukrainian officials said Thursday the bird flu virus had been confirmed in eight residential areas of the Crimea,where more than 30,000 fowl were already culled.<br><br>By Wednesday, the country's Emergency Situations Ministry had seized about 28,000 birds in house-to-house checks in villages in a sealed-off exclusion zone.<br><br>Experts fear the H5N1 virus could mutate into a new type, which could be easily transmitted from human to human and cause a pandemic."<br><br>In addition to culling, whole villages were "sealed off". Just wait for the "bird flu" to be detected in the U.S. Anyone want to wager a bet as to whether or not we will see "sealed off" zones?<br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=gdn01>GDN01</A> at: 12/13/05 4:48 pm<br></i>
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Re: Culling Methods

Postby dbeach » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:08 pm

I belive that the bird flu is a man created disease to enrich the privleged and remove more freedoms of the commoners<br><br>Rumsfeld owns tamiflu company stock which has been incresing for months.. <p></p><i></i>
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