Did Jesus Christ really exist?

[john darmy]

Or was it all a cruel hoax to enslave the masses and unite them under one major religion? According to the author of a book called "The Christ Conspiracy," Christianity is nothing but an amalgamation of previously existing religions and there's not a shred of evidence that Jesus Christ ever walked the Earth. See here: www.truthbeknown.com . <p></p><i></i>

[robertdreed]

Who was that wiseacre who told off the Sanhedrin, if it wasn't Jesus? That's a mighty funny "myth" to confabulate, as such stories go... <p></p><i></i>

[Dreams End]

there are more complex ways to look at this. Nothing was written down that we know of during the time Jesus was said to walk the earth. By the time the Gospels were finished, 100 or so years later, they became a compilation of sayings with narrative stories which differed depending on the teller. Starting with the Gospel of Mark (chronologically), a bare bones version and ending with the Gospel of John, which varies rather widely and tends to introduce a very Greek style of philosophy into the story. It also has the most complete version of many of the stories we've come to know. Maybe the thinking has changed on the chronology and some suggest that just because John has the most material does not mean he "made up" the most material but that he included material left out of the other gospels. I don't think that's the way it was, however. I think he has a very clear theological agenda and message and shapes the stories to fit that message.<br><br>Some scholars posit a "Book of Q" which was either a written or memorized collection of the actual sayings of Jesus which make their way in various arrangements into the gospels. You see fragments in the Sermon on the Mount (beatitudes) for example.<br><br>We can disregard all of Paul's writings when considering the life of Jesus, of course, as he never met Jesus (save as a light on the road) and, if I recall, actually only quotes Jesus once, if at all.<br><br>I think it is more accurate to say that Paul created Christianity, but that does nothing to prove or disprove Jesus' actual existence.<br><br>Add into the mix the various "Gnostic gospels" and you have quite a mix.<br><br>In any event, even real events, when handed down orally and placed into writing by people not interested in accurate history but in telling a story that has a certain message, will get distorted. <br><br>But don't count Jesus out. For a long time they thought the city of Troy was entirely mythical. Till they found it.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[Fearless]

I've ordered this book, but it hasn't arrived yet. The author's theory is that Jesus Christ was acutally Julius Caesar and blames the errors on poor translation. <br><br>A bit of the book is available on line here:<br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.carotta.de/eindex.html" target="top">www.carotta.de/eindex.html</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> <p></p><i></i>

[dbeach]

I prayed to JC to deliver me from death and He did ..I find spiritual strength in the Holy Communion..I think that anyone who is working for the Truth and to help humanity is Blessed from on High and should be commended for theri efforts in this most dangerous of days ..with more danger in the future <br><br> 'for these are times that try our souls.. '<br><br>Yes Jesus Christ existed NEVER met Him but I know my life is proof of His existence <p></p><i></i>

[rain]

LOL. <br>'would you like fries with that?'<br> <p></p><i></i>

[Fearless]

I'm not easily entertained. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>

[Homeless Halo]

Of course Jesus was real, and he plans on coming back as soon as he is sure that it is safe. <p></p><i></i>

[Fogyreef]

Here it is in a nutshell.<br><br>When we as a species developed agriculture we soon related the movement of the sun to the success of our crops, and our survival.<br><br>The sun's influence grew until it attained the status of a god.<br><br>The solar deity myths were eventually personafied. The Egyptian pharaohs are a good example as they claimed to be the agent of the solar god on Earth, and eventually passed themselves off as the Earthbound form of the Sun God.<br><br>Here you see the birth of the halo. It began as the depiction of the solar disc about the head of a figure:<br><br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://magedm.freeyellow.com/horus-isis.jpg" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--><br><br>Various holidays grew out of the religious observations of major solar periods. Most notably the Pagan celebration of the Winter Solstice December 22-25, where the Sun God "Dies" as it reaches the lowest point of it's path across the sky, and then is "born again" as it defeats the "prince of darkness" and "ascends" again three days later.<br><br><br>Easter, first celebrated 4000 years ago (sorry Jesus freaks) represented the peak of the growing season, the Vernal Equinox, where springtime frolicking and fertility were celebrated. Enter the Easter Bunny and Easter Eggs, both Pagan symbols of fertility. "Ahh, now it makes sense" you say. See what a little knowledge of history can do to a lifetime of Sunday School brainwashing and misinformation?<br><br>Want to learn more? Google Horus, Mithras, Amen-Ra, each coupled with the word Jesus so you get pages that discuss both. <br><br>You'll be surprised to know that the story of Jesus is a repeat, told many times over, and over many centuries before "He" was "born". <br><br>Jesus the man most certainly never existed.<br><br>Enjoy the ride as a whole new world of reason is opened for you.<br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=fogyreef>Fogyreef</A> at: 9/28/05 4:20 am<br></i>

[Homeless Halo]

A more important question might be, does it matter whether Jesus Christ existed or not? <p></p><i></i>

[Fogyreef]

To which I say:<br><br>How much of our world is effected by people making decisions based on their belief He did?<br><br>According to this article, societies that believe in God are actually worse off: <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,171-1798944,00.html">www.timesonline.co.uk/new...44,00.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>So, to me, the important task of checking the runaway belief that He existed by educating people as to the origins of the Jesus myth may one day bring us back into an age of reason and pull us back from the hysteria we are witnessing (Intelligent Design, Faith Based Initiatives, etc) that would ultimately drag us into a theocracy like Iran.<br><br>So, again, do we live in ignorance ruled by superstition, or do we educate ourselves and get on with the business of reason?<br><br>No History : Know Jesus<br>Know History : No Jesus <p></p><i></i>

[Homeless Halo]

I think you're aiming higher than you can see, my friend, if you think you have ANY chance whatsoever of secularizing this country. Its going to take a lot more than some websites and books to do that.<br><br>And I doubt it is as simple as "countries that believe in god are worse off". (For example there are several hugely populous post-communist dictatorships where religion is non-existant even if its legal that are arguably much worse off than this nation)<br><br>For example, Tibetan life wasn't too bad, before the secularists arrived. And I don't think you could describe Tibetans as non-religious. (they are lacking also most of the problems described in the British msm press article you supply as evidence)<br><br>Besides the article is largely a comparision of statistics from USA and UK, and there are many more differences between them than religion alone could account for.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[slimmouse]

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I think you're aiming higher than you can see, my friend, if you think you have ANY chance whatsoever of secularizing this country. Its going to take a lot more than some websites and books to do that<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END-->.<br><br> Look where the quote is from HH.<br><br> The times online. Speaks volumes. All part of the "Forget religion, here and now is all their is, grab it while you can campaign"<br><br> A few quick points.<br><br> 1/ Jesus, Born 25th December to a virgin mother from the Archangel Gabriel. Real translation. Genetically altered and seeded woman on Mother Earth from the Archangel ( extraterrestrial ) Gabriel - Hence no "missing link"<br><br> Of course, anyone promoting such Wacky "conspiracy theories" is immediately trashed as deluded ! Better that the brilliant supercomputer that is the human species be borne of either pure chance from the cosmic soup, or from a guy with a beard creating lil replica models.<br><br> 2/ 25th December . The shortest day is when ? 21st December, and after 3 days the sun is "reborn".<br><br> 3/ Why do I need a priest, mullah, vicar, etc to tell me what I know in my heart is right and wrong ? Why cant my parents teach me first, and then , with experience , make my own mind up?<br><br> 4/ Energy cannot be destroyed. Neither IMO can consciousness. Once created, were around for a good while. Those of us who achieve true "christ consciousness" through however long it takes, will eventually be allowed to create our own universes.<br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=slimmouse@rigorousintuition>slimmouse</A> at: 9/28/05 5:19 am<br></i>

[Fogyreef]

Enjoy your universes.<br><br>Meanwhile: Halo, thanks for your reply. <br><br>"It's the Principles, Stupid" (not to be taken personally <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START ;) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> ) I always aim higher than I can see. It's how I keep my awareness above the crowd's, sniff out practical controversies that matter and can be addressed, and how I don't allow naysayers to deter my momentum. If not me, who? If not now, when? I am deeply principled, but I am not naive. Naturally I don't expect to secularize our country. But I'm sure no one expected the Spanish Inquisition or the Dark Ages or the Age of Reason, yet something happened to alter the "mood". We most certainly will never have a secular nation if we don't try, but we very well might devolve into a theocracy unless we do try. In my journey of 1000 miles my first steps have been to tell one person and teach them to tell one person. It's all I can do, but it's all that needs be done.<br><br>Did you know, by the way, that we have our first secular lobbyist in D.C. now? First = times they are a changing.<br><br>Ignorance and hysteria are weeds that grows quickly with apathy. Education and reason need to be cultivated, which takes time and effort. I welcome any comments, as long as they're not about creating other universes. My focus is on the here and now of this one. <p></p><i></i>

[Fogyreef]

I'll bite: <br><br>A few quick points.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>1/ Jesus, Born 25th December to a virgin mother from the Archangel Gabriel. Real translation. Genetically altered and seeded woman on Mother Earth from the Archangel ( extraterrestrial ) Gabriel - Hence no "missing link"<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Mithras and many such solar deity figures were all born 25th December of a virgin, well before Jesus. It was simply THE day to be born. And it was THE day to party, which is why the church adopted the coldest, shortest day(s) of the year to have their shepherds lay with their flocks in the fields while Mary did her thing. IE- they're BSing you. <br><br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>2/ 25th December . The shortest day is when ? 21st December, and after 3 days the sun is "reborn".<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Which is why I said it's CELEBRATED on the 22-25th. It's quite the shindig.<br><br><br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>4/ Energy cannot be destroyed. Neither IMO can consciousness. Once created, were around for a good while. Those of us who achieve true "christ consciousness" through however long it takes, will eventually be allowed to create our own universes.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>If consciousness can be created it can be destroyed. Anything created is a sum of it's parts/process and thus can be dissassembled. And if you're in training to create your own universe, what the heck are you wasting time on internet boards for?<br> <p></p><i></i>