A story of intuition

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A story of intuition

Postby meekster » Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:17 am

Been hanging here at RI for about a month, thought I should contribute. This may take a while, I've had my drug of choice (red wine), and I may regret this in the morning.<br><br>My comfy gay white middle class American life was shattered by 9/11. That event, which shocked me more deeply than I ever understood at the time, sent me looking for the real reasons behind this surreal event, because the official story was quit obviously (to me) not the whole story. I eventually came to believe that it was an inside job, and once I believed that, then my whole world view crumbled around me. I went into extreme depression, and as I learned more about the state of the world (Peak Oil, the environment, Capitalism, Communism, war, plagues, starvation of innocents, on and on...) it only got worse. I couldn't work, I could barely function. To me, the end of the world was imminent, and there was no hope. People I met on the street almost seemed transparent to me, because they were totally unaware of the dire peril we all were in!<br><br>Yet I still breathed, and I still ate, so I began to seek. Because of the hypocrisy of Christian churches (never even mind the Pope!), I never bothered to look there. I looked into Buddhism, New Age, Pagan, etc., and yet none of these really calmed the sense of panic I was having. I eventually found a spiritual "teacher" who was even crazier and more radical than me, and who declared that George W. Bush was the antichrist! I bit, hook, line and sinker, and for a few months, he filled my head with the craziest shit you can imagine, but he did one thing. He opened me up enough to hope and consider that the person of God really DOES exist.<br><br>So one fine day in September 2004, I was walking through a local woods, when suddenly I was taken to "heaven". I know this sounds very weird, but it is true. And my feet never left the ground. I was surrounded by the Love of God, I felt Him, and the glory of Him, and His creation everywhere. He was in me, and around me, and was indeed, everything - the alpha and the omega. I could sense Him going beyond me infinitely, and I could understand the Unity of God. There is no other. I felt like kneeling, but to what exactly would I kneel, since everything was God? I also felt very, very thankful. It is a great gift and privilege to be human - to be able to (in a small way) comprehend His glory.<br><br>This experience is pretty much orthodox with any true account of mystical experience of God, nothing unusual, so I feel pretty confident about it. In hindsight, I believe it was the Holy Spirit, "the comforter".<br><br>What happened next, is when it gets interesting.<br><br>The next day, my "teacher" was proven to me to be a fake, a total charlatan. And shortly after that, a book arrives for me in the mail. It was a gift from my sister. No one has ever given me a book by mail, so that in itself was unusual, but from my sister? She is possibly the most damaged person I have ever known. A victim of drugs, alcohol, sex... she is the type of person that you want to distance yourself from just for the sake of your own sanity. She is a user and a liar, and she is very difficult to love. When she sent me the book, she was in treatment (again!) for drug abuse.<br><br>So anyway, this book arrived, wrapped like a child did it. (sigh). It was The DaVinci Code. Yes, the book that is STILL on the NYT best seller list. I had a vague idea what it was about - some weird "heresy" involving the Catholic church, but since I considered Catholics, and in fact, all Christians, to be brainwashed idiots, the book was never on my "must read" list. And yet, because it came the way it did, and because of my recent "experience", I decided to read it.<br><br> As I read it, felt the most intense "premonition" I have ever felt. You know, that hair standing up on the back of your neck feeling - except that it was more like my head was about to vibrate off my neck! This book was WAY more than a pop fiction thriller. As I read, I became convinced that this book was revealing a belief system. In fact, the belief system of those people it talks about: the very rich, the very royal. The people that this book talks about, perhaps the people behind this book, really believe in the bloodline of the holy grail. And more than that, a feeling that this was a very great LIE grew in me. I went to Sunday School. I knew (more or less) who Jesus was, and I knew that if he didn't die on the cross, then the whole Christian message was mute. Don't ask me why I suddenly remembered this, or why remembering it made me wary about this book, not joyful.<br><br>So I read the book, I got the whole symbolism thing, the apple, the "divine feminine", the pyramids, the roses, on and on. It occurred to me that if someone, maybe someone in the near future, was to stand up and declare that they were of "the blood of Christ", that they would be claiming a kingship that no one has ever dared for 2000 years. And that the "proof" of this would at once both affirm the fact that Jesus did live, but deny that He was who He said He was.<br><br>The connection of the archetype of Mary Magdalene to the actual Princess Diana was such an obvious step for me that it almost seemed "written in the stars". Who IS the most famous and admired woman in recent history? Who was treated badly by her male "keepers"? Who was named after the great Goddess of the Ephesians? Why was she called "the Queen of Hearts"? Why did I stay up till 2:00 am to see her wedding? Why did I see her funeral? Why is she still on the cover of the tabloids? Why is the media so obsessed with her?<br><br>It is but a small step to surmise that any child of Diana, Princess of Wales, might become a Christ figure, and that his birth would make her "the Mother of God". It is interesting how an error of Catholicism later might become a dagger in its throat.<br><br>As you can imagine, this series of events led me to seek a Christian perspective. There was something going on here, and it was very much focused on Christianity. I visited a few churches, but I have to say that the experience was both wonderful and disappointing. When I went back to church as someone who appreciated the Deity behind the worship, I was moved to tears, but I felt that those people around me were worshipping the forms of the religion more than its base. I finally began to read the bible for myself, and I met a Jesus who was 180 degrees from the Jesus that I was taught in Sunday School.<br><br>So that's my story. It's interesting to watch world events unfold after that little bit of "revelation". <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=meekster@rigorousintuition>meekster</A> at: 12/21/05 10:23 pm<br></i>
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Re: A story of intuition

Postby manxkat » Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:53 am

meekster, welcome to RI. I enjoyed your story. I'm a comfy gay white middle class American too, with a few of my own epiphanies as well -- one of them being my "coming out" at age 22 to my immediate family and friends (I'm 52 now). But, as with all of my other phases of "enlightenment," this was short-lived and I eventually fell out of the clouds and back down to earth with a resounding thud. I still value the experiences though.<br><br>Where are you with Christianity now that you've read the bible and seen a completely different Jesus than what you were taught in Sunday school? That realization for me, as a teenager in the turbulent 60s, propelled me headlong into a belief system that is essentially atheism. That doesn't mean I don't believe in the possibility of a creator. I can even see the possibility of the essence of that creator within all things. I just abhor religions, especially the ones that lord power and control over people -- pretty much all of them, although I find Buddhism interesting since it's really rather secular in nature.<br><br>Anyway, thanks for sharing your story and providing me with some positive food for thought this evening.<br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=manxkat@rigorousintuition>manxkat</A> at: 12/21/05 10:55 pm<br></i>
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Re: A story of intuition

Postby Floyd Smoots » Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:05 am

Jesus Christ, meekster (and I dare use that inroduction as a worshipful salutation, not a blasphemeous epithet), I hope you found the real One! I believe the Bible. I don't think that God likes it when you participate in your chosen lifestyle.<br><br>That said, I don't think God likes it when I drink too much beer, and continue to be addicted to tobacco (not to mention fantasizing about women who are not my wife). You will NOT find me to be "One of Those Finger-Pointing Christians".<br><br>I have so many "beams" (uncut boards) in my own eyes, that I don't even want to pull out my tweezers and go after your self confessed mote. However, I would like to take this opportunity to point out that belief in Jesus as the Christ, Messiah, and Saviour of all mankind is the only Way to salvation.<br><br>The Bible says that "All who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved". I would like to point out, though, that, once we get to Heaven and are "made perfect" that our reward WILL be based on how well we obeyed ALL of the Lord's commandments concerning our conduct here, on this mortal plane!<br><br>My alcohol and tobacco abuse WILL count against me in the final "Rewards Pile" judgement as much as your chosen lifestyle will. Jesus said "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone". Because I am not without sin, I have NO stones to cast at you, but I will add this admonition.<br><br>I, personally, do not find your current (love) lifestyle to be anymore in line with the Biblical view of God, Jesus, and truth than I find my own. Just something to add to your thoughts. I do, however, agree with your last Long paragraph about churches in general, and the Roman Catholic Church in particular. That's pretty much why I don't go to church "religiously" any more.<br><br>Keep on checking out Bible-based prophecy sites, though. The time of Satan's rule here is almost up.<br><br>Peace & Love,<br>Brother Floyd<br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: A story of intuition

Postby meekster » Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:23 am

Hi Mansxcat and Floyd,<br><br>Your replies are much appreciated. <br><br>First to M:<br><br>The "coming out" experience that every gay man must go through to become who he really is a profound experience. I was 22 also! It is something to say to yourself that you are what everyone else in your culture says they despise. My recent "experience" differs from that in a way, because it was so totally not of my own doing. It wasn't even my own realization. It came upon me, to use a very worn out phrase. I very much respect an atheist point of view, it takes considerable courage.<br><br>But to make a long story short, I believe in God, not in an intellectual way, but in a 2x4 on the head sort of way - when you get hit by that, you just know it, and nothing will every take it away. I even believe that Jesus is actually who he said he was - God come in the flesh - the savior of ALL mankind, though every denomination would deny it.<br><br>To Floyd:<br><br>I know what you think about my "chosen" lifestyle. If only it was actually chosen. I've been to many bible based prophecy sites, and I find much of value there. However, I am not welcome, because of what I am.<br><br>I don't know who or what we queers actually are, when it comes right down to it. There is no doubt that we are different from straight folks - and there is no doubt that this is exactly as God intends. I'm doing a lot of thinking about that now. <p></p><i></i>
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Frowny Jesus

Postby professorpan » Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:25 am

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I don't think that God likes it when you participate in your chosen lifestyle.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Floyd -- <br><br>I don't think God likes it when you tell other people that God doesn't like gay people.<br><br>But then again, as a pantheistic, Taoist kind of dude, I don't define "God" as some self-righteous lawmaker who gives out piles of rewards, nor do I believe one book contains all Her Wisdom, so I should probably just keep my mouth shut. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Frowny Jesus

Postby GDN01 » Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:47 am

HAAAAA!<br>Prof. Pan - I literally spit out my drink when I read your reply to Floyd!<br><br>Welcome to RI, meekster, and thank you for sharing your story. <br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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gay middle class readers of RI

Postby slomo » Thu Dec 22, 2005 5:41 pm

Hi meekster and Manxkat,<br><br>Thanks for your stories. I too am another middle class gay reader of RI. Nice to know I'm not the only one.<br><br>That said, I tend to agree with Prof Pan re: Frowny Jesus. <br><br>On the basis of experience, I do believe in the vastness of the world, beyond what we view as the material universe, and the existence of intelligent discarnate beings. But I'm completely agnostic on the character of "God", whether Jesus existed, and if so whether He died and was resurrected.<br> <p></p><i></i>
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Intuition

Postby nomo » Thu Dec 22, 2005 6:32 pm

I have yet to find a Christian who is able to explain to me the biggest riddle at the heart of their faith:<br><br>How on earth can it be possible for someone to die in someone's else place? What kind of salvation, or justice, is that? I think it's nothing but <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>scapegoating.</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> No one is responsible for <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>my</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> transgressions but <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>me</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->. When <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>I</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> do the crime, <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>I</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> should do the time.<br><br>In my mind, the real moral of the Jesus story is exactly that: in times of trouble, the ruling parties will always resort to finding a defenseless group or individual to place the blame on. It's a time-tested formula to [re]unite the population against the enemy du-jour, be they Jews or Gypsies or Muslims or what have you. <br><br>I believe Jesus was very aware of this mechanism, as his words illustrate. And I believe his death as an <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>innocent</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> human being has lifted the veil from this false premise, that the sacrificial death of someone can somehow be beneficial to a community.<br><br>In a perverse way, so-called Christians believe the exact opposite of what he preached. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=nomo@rigorousintuition>nomo</A> at: 12/22/05 3:32 pm<br></i>
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Re: Intuition

Postby Dreams End » Thu Dec 22, 2005 9:05 pm

I enjoyed this post very much. There are many Christian writers out there who are not really represented within the majority conceptions of "Christianity". One of my favorites was Thomas Merton, a Catholic. He had a similar experience to yours and ended up in a monastery (though it was a huge struggle for him to stay there.) He became an activist (through his writings...he never left the monastery until he visited Asia..a trip on which he died after having had a profound experience in amongst Buddha statuary in Ceylon or somewhere...some say his death had been arranged by the CIA as he was getting very popular as an anti-war writer.) <br><br>Brief note to Floyd, whom I seem to be picking on today. One of the primary reasons behind teen suicide is struggling with sexuality that is not accepted by peers or family. These teens did not "choose" to be gay, and in repressive environments, the orientation can be a hell on earth...gay bashing, both verbal and physical by peers and parents, ostracisism...even murder (Matthew Shepherd comes to mind.) <br><br>Some kids can "pass" for straight, but we all remember what happens to the more effeminate males in high school. <br><br>When trusted adults condemn homosexuality as a sinful "choice" (such as drinking") you may literally condemn a young person to death. <br><br>Back to the post at hand. I enjoyed also that I was expecting to receive a sermon about this new found "teacher" and suddenly we are told that he is a charlatan! This was not only refreshing, but also indicative of deep instrospection. It is so easy to get sucked into all kinds of abysses when on the spiritual quest...and so difficult to get out, once in. My sister is in a splinter group from something called "The Way International." The founder was a proven plagiarist and many members left the group. But they STILL were so attached to the experiences that they simply created splinter groups which had pretty much the same structure and beliefs! Happily (I hope) my sister's group has no real controlling central authority...and while there are things I'm concerned about (see, she too had come out as a lesbian some years ago and left that behind after joining this group (a temporary relief because my mom and I both could not STAND her girlfriend!)) it seem that this particular version of "The Way" does not order people around so much. In the original group, nonbelieving family members were to be "marked and avoided." Nice.<br><br>Sorry for the ramble. Great story.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Intuition

Postby Col Quisp » Thu Dec 22, 2005 10:54 pm

Welcome, Meekster! Great thread you started! Lately I've been thinking that what is practiced as Christianity is far removed from the real teachings of Jesus. Unfortunately, I don't know enough about gnosticism to back up this feeling. I've not read the Da Vinci Code but I found your theory interesting. <br><br>To Floyd: I am sorry you feel that way about gay people. I disagree that our creator (if there is one!) would frown on homosexuality. The Bible is written by man, and certain passages are contradictory. I don't recall anything in the New Testament against homosexuality. <p></p><i></i>
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The Bible

Postby bamabecky » Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:43 pm

I'm a middle class "straight" lady in her fifties that just stumbled into this thread. I implore you to read Brian Desborough's book <!--EZCODE UNDERLINE START--><span style="text-decoration:underline"><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>"The Cast No Shadows"</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--></em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--></span><!--EZCODE UNDERLINE END-->. I thought the whole book would be about the Elites, however I was in for a big surprise. The first half of the book covers his 30 years of research into the authenticity of the Bible. It was an amazing read. Welcome to RI, I'm a newbe too. I don't want to spoil it for you and tell you what he says. Get it and read it, you will be so glad that you did!<br><br>Bama <p>Be the Media! Write a personal essay to your friends and family, telling them what's going on and tell them how and where to find more info.</p><i></i>
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It'll Be Alright, If Ya Just Admit It.....Chris Rock

Postby Floyd Smoots » Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:50 pm

Sorry, friends, (D.E., & Col Quisp) you're going to force me to do my homework and get back to you on certain posted questions/comments.<br><br>D.E., I have never felt "picked on" by you (nor you, Col Q.) because you do not attack the poster, only their argument. You two are real (and for longer than me) R.I.ers. I never feel uncomfortable discussing my views around you two. Both of you seem to agree with Voltaire, Jeff, and me. We may disagree with what you say, but, we will defend to the death, your right to say it. Unlike (cough, cough, scollon) who has his/her/its own agenda, and often feels free to just flame someone, but never seems to answer their argument or their sometimes "pointed questions". Never mind.<br><br>To answer professor pan, and GDN01, good riposte, almost, professor, but I didn't mean to imply that God doesn't like gay people, only, that in His own words in the Bible, that he doesn't like that sort of conduct, any more than it pleases Him to see me, yes, even me, a believer in Him, drinking cigarettes, smoking beer, and lusting after my happily married co-worker"ess" at the place of my employment. His own word states that "God so loved the world...." (meaning its human inhabitants)....well, you know the rest of the Biblical assertion, whether or not you choose to believe in it.<br><br>I also hope you will notice that I passed no judgement on brother meekster concerning his salvation or admittance into Heaven. I only tried to point out to him (while pointing the other nine fingers at myself), that his conduct, if, as I truly believe, is not condoned by God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit, will most likely have a noticeable impact on his "reward pile" when all of us (in the Fundie view) who are granted eternal life because of our belief in Jesus Christ as Saviour, are finally admitted into Eternity.<br><br>I really HAVE looked into the "homosexuality" question, and I believe that most people in the lifestyle were led there by older others. Do you think that I, even I, have never had sexual feelings for a "real man"? Well, I have. But, in my innermost being, I would just rather have a soft, sensual, sexy woman sleeping next to me after a night of making love. Of course, that's been on hold for two years now, because my wife left me for an old boyfriend (yes, I helped cause it, but not by cheating).<br><br>My secular work "buddies" just laugh it off with, Hey, man, you just need to get laid. While I confess that I miss my wife terribly, I would rather just smoke beer, drink cigarettes, and BLOG, because after two failed marriages, 8 yrs. & 16 Yrs., brother meekster, and the rest of you believers out there, I'm just durned sick and tired of the "fray" and I only want to go HOME.<br><br>And, for the rest of you, this is NOT a suicide threat. I might be sick and tired, but I will leave it in God's loving hands to choose the time, place, and method of my departure from this "mortal coil".<br><br>Thanks for listening, fiends and naggers, this is WFLOYD signing off (of this post, anyway) for now. Col Quisp, I will get back to you about any "anti-gay" postings that I may/might find in the New Testament. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: It'll Be Alright, If Ya Just Admit It.....Chris Rock

Postby Dreams End » Fri Dec 23, 2005 12:45 am

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I really HAVE looked into the "homosexuality" question, and I believe that most people in the lifestyle were led there by older others.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Love to see the source on THAT. <p></p><i></i>
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One Short Admission For Now

Postby Floyd Smoots » Fri Dec 23, 2005 1:42 am

Dreams End, not that I won't get back to you on other sources, but, just for starters, see any and all of Jeff's posts on Ritual Abuse and Pedophilia. I have read many books, published articles, and well stated medical studies and papers that assert that homosexuality is not inborn, as much as it is inculcated in very young children when they are trying to discover who and what they are, by "loving" adults who abuse their positions of power and authority over said children. For the most part, they ARE rebuttals to those in the psychiatric and psychologocal community who promulgate the existence of a homosexual gene.<br><br>I'm not saying here and now, that that covers the complete spectrum, because it leaves out the whole Mainstream Media push to "out" almost every one of our children, and put them in touch with their inner "gayness", while they are helpless captives of this late twentieth and early twenty first century "pubic" education system, at least, here in the Untied States of Amerika.<br><br>I did notice, however, that, instead of replying to most of my non-judgemental post to you, Col Quisp, and brother meekster, you chose to answer my hopefully thoughtful, considered, and considerate post with nothing more than a very small sentence fragment.<br><br>Love to see the "real reason" behind THAT. <p></p><i></i>
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So what IS 'right" and "wrong", really?

Postby marykmusic » Fri Dec 23, 2005 2:07 am

Homeless Halo's not around right now, or he would have put in this quote from one of his personal heros: "An thou hurt noone, Do What Thou Wilt shall be the whole of the law."<br><br>Or maybe not. Those with self-serving tendencies tend to leave out those ever-important first few words.<br><br>So what's wrong with being gay? Nothing, in my eyes. What's difficult about being gay? Coming out under a multitude of eyes that are not like mine. Here's today's cover story on the Phoenix New Times, about coming out in a Native American culture: <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://phoenixnewtimes.com/Issues/2005-12-22/news/feature.html" target="top">The Crying Game</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>And, of direct consequence to girls like Francessica, Demetria and Alisa, while the Navajos (as well as most other North American tribes) once respected and revered transgenders -- medicine men used to refer to them as "chosen people" who could share their wisdom living as both a man and a woman -- that romantic folklore of ubiquitous tolerance is no more. Homophobia, along with Western Christian conservatism, has crept into the Navajo Nation, as well as other tribes in Arizona -- Apache, Pima, Tohono O'odham, Hopi. <hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>This thread started out to be about a profound spiritual experience, but it was minimized by someone else (claiming to be spiritual) pointing the self-righteous finger. Let's see where it goes from here. --MaryK <p></p><i></i>
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