Parenting by Dr. Dobson

by **NewKid** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 12:37 am

<a href="http://powerofnarrative.blogspot.com/2004/12/monstrous-james-dobson-further.html" target="top">powerofnarrative.blogspot.com/2004/12/monstrous-james-dobson-further.html</a> and here <a href="http://powerofnarrative.blogspot.com/2005/03/roots-of-monsters-they-became-how.html" target="top">powerofnarrative.blogspot.com/2005/03/roots-of-monsters-they-became-how.html</a> Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=newkid@rigorousintuition>NewKid</A> at: 7/20/06 10:53 pm

by **LilyPatToo** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:15 am

I'd never heard of Dr. Dobson until he was mentioned in my favorite little book on dealing with the Right's bizarre attitudes, "Don't Think of an Elephant!" by George Lakoff. It was difficult for me to believe that anyone in this day and age could conceivably be that draconian about child-raising and be completely serious, but I did some Google searches on Dobson and discovered to my horror that this sadist was breeding us a whole generation of damaged little monsters who will take the NeoCons' ball and run like hell with it. The Nazis were a mystery to me until I learned of a similar child-rearing philosophy that was popular in turn-of-the-century Germany. It advocated the infliction of extreme cruelties on children of all ages, including infants. And it was as popular then as Dobson is now, among German parents of the middle and upper classes. And as a result, the world witnessed a generation that distinguished itself by its sadistic cruelty, degeneracy and brazen arrogance. From Lakoff's writings, I've learned that the basis for authoritarianism is formed in very early childhood. He calls it "strict father frames" and it is the direct result of an outlook on life that is very negative and fear-based--the Right sees the world as a dangerous place, one where those who obey unquestioningly and follow the rules will end up rich and on top of the heap and those who do not will fail and end up on the bottom, where they belong. Obey the strict father and you will prosper, IOW. Add to that poisonous beginning the occasional beating and a daily ration of slaps, tonguelashings and scorn and you will produce a either a broken spirit or a sado-masochist who will spend the rest of their life getting even with their hated parents. It's people like that who are the guiding lights behind things like eugenics and mind control programs. Dobson appalls me. To read more about George Lakoff's frames theory, go here -- <a href="http://www.rockridgeinstitute.org/projects/strategic/simple_framing">Rockridge Institute</a> LilyPat

by **km artlu** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 4:50 am

If you have it handy, I'd appreciate the source from which you learned of the German child-rearing philosophy.

by **4911** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 7:09 am

"the German child-rearing philosophy" Whoa! Ease off please - germans today are pretty much okay. There isnt really any authorotarianism going on which I can see. German society today is more democratic and liberal than american society by miles. Turn of the century was different, yep. Today, though, its much more loving. I dont see any tots with toy machineguns or flags or anything violent going on here. It would be important to distinguish these two epochs. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=4911>4911</A> at: 7/21/06 5:12 am

by **Dreams End** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 12:21 pm

Interesting: <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Alice Miller, author of For Your Own Good: Hidden Cruelty in Child-Rearing and the Roots of Violence (Farrar, Straus, and Giroux, 1983), argues convincingly that child abuse was rampant in German families by 1900. Germans were already known for their unusually harsh parenting practices, but these practices became far harsher under the influence of such pedagogues as Dr Daniel Gottlieb Moritz Schreber, whose tracts flooded the region during the mid-nineteenth century. A strict authoritarian, Schreber taught parents to break their children's spirits immediately after birth. For example, he instructed them to physically punish babies for crying, assuring parents that "such a procedure is only necessary once, or at most twice, and then one is the master of the child for all time. From then on, one look, one single threatening gesture will suffice to subjugate the child." Through the teachings of such men as Schreber, entire generations of German children were deprived of any sense of love and safety. Their hearts were broken before their legs could walk. This left them exceptionally vulnerable to the psychological consequences of war and national impoverishment. In addition to this, remember that industrialization had only recently taken hold in Prussia and Austria. This compounded the collective traumas of the German people; it also provided the means to express those traumas on an unprecedented scale. There were no systems of public health care, income assistance, family support, or child protection to soothe the suffering of the German people. By the time Nosferatu was produced their inner world must have been unspeakably desolate. Since this was a mental mutilation, it expressed itself through the cultural products of the German mind, taking shape in the halls of power as readily as in the houses of cinema. Because they were raised to despise weakness, Germans refused to even acknowledge, much less examine, their emotional injuries. Thus, they were probably unaware of the ethical significance of their actions; the cultural machinery of the Holocaust arranged itself on a largely unconscious level. Just as a simple algorithm generates the infinitely complex patterns of the Mandlebrot Set, the unrecognized and unarticulated psychological pain of the German people generated the intricate preconditions necessary for the creation of the death camps. Vampirism is the perfect metaphor for this process. Trauma is a kind of death-in-life. The workings of the traumatized mind are fragmented and deregulated, preventing complex functions like happiness and empathy from coalescing. It intensifies the hunger for love, but blocks any healthy expression of this need, encouraging the development of sadomasochistic obsessions. Like vampirism, trauma has plague-like qualities. If those who suffer trauma aren't healed, they can become its carriers, compulsively inflicting the same cruelty upon others that was once inflicted upon them. The more innocent the victim, and the more grievous the cruelty, the more likely it is that the infection will take hold. If left unchecked, trauma can bring down whole societies as surely as the Black Death spread by Nosferatu's rats. The institutions of the welfare state that were erected in Western nations following World War II tempered their people's traumas. These institutions have been our societies' front lines of defense against both trauma and the fascism it generates. We should remember this as conservatives, both in British Columbia and elsewhere, dismantle our social safety nets, encourage a return to authoritarian child-rearing practices, celebrate unrestrained marketplace savagery, and entangle us in the vast economic networks of the USA's military-industrial complex. In doing so, they may well be opening a coffin that should stay forever closed. <hr></blockquote> ****<a href="http://www.republic-news.org/archive/100-repub/100_nenonen.htm">link</a>

by **LilyPatToo** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:14 pm

4911, please re-read the second parapgraph in my post: <blockquote>Quote:<hr>The Nazis were a mystery to me until I learned of a similar child-rearing philosophy that was popular in turn-of-the-century Germany. It advocated the infliction of extreme cruelties on children of all ages, including infants. And it was as popular then as Dobson is now, among German parents of the middle and upper classes. And as a result, the world witnessed a generation that distinguished itself by its sadistic cruelty, degeneracy and brazen arrogance.<hr></blockquote> A generation...the one that spawned the Nazis. NOT all Germans of all ages. I referred very, very specifically to ONE child-rearing philosophy at the turn of the century, not to ALL German child-rearing philosophies. There was NO anti-German slant to my statement at all. It was entirely in your mis-reading of my words and subsequent jump to a false conclusion. LilyPat

by **LilyPatToo** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:29 pm

*Thank you* for finding that link, Dreams End--I'd spent a quarter of an hour searching through my hundreds upon hundreds of mind control links last night, looking for the name of the 19th century German who came up with the philosophy and failed to find it...I've GOT to organize those bookmarks better! It's no surprise, is it, that the fascist Right has taken up what is basically the same cruel child-rearing methods that the parents of the Nazis did? Of all the sad and terrible things I've learned since I began my quest to understand the historical underpinnings of mind control, that was one of the most awful to me, personally. Think of the pain of all those children--then, in Germany, and now, in the US--who are being treated cruelly by ignorant parents. And think of the mindset that that abuse is creating....Will any human rights violation be off-limits for them? LilyPat

by **Dreams End** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:33 pm

You are familiar with Lloyd DeMause, I assume. I haven't read his books and the whole "psychohistory" approach seems overdone (and he also ends up with some strange company in 911 truth sites) but he takes this idea much further.

by **4911** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:53 pm

Hi Lilypat, actually I was referring to km artlus post. I saw you made the distinction, no worries <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">

by **km artlu** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 3:37 pm

Thanks for looking for that Lily; and for finding it DE. Plus apologies to all for the imprecision of my post. I well understood the original reference, but was too lazy to have included "turn-of-the-century". My bad. The subject sparked my interest because my father came to parenthood very late in life. He was born in 1896, into the upper class of an ancient small city in Germany. On one occasion in my early twenties, with a bit of a buzz on, I was going through a box of old family photos. And I do mean old. Going back towards the beginnings of popular photography. In the stern and cruel faces of the males in his lineage, I could see the roots of the conditioning which had distorted my father's soul. That was the beginning of my compassion towards him, and also my determination not to be another link in the chain. Again, my apology. Exact quotes from now on.

by **Homeless Halo** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 12:43 am

touchy eh, 4911?

by **Chiaroscuro** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 2:03 am

This is from New Zealand <a href="http://www.dailypost.co.nz/localnews/storydisplay.cfm?storyid=3693431&thesection=localnews&thesubsection=&thesecondsubsection=">www.dailypost.co.nz/local...ubsection=</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Mr Smith says the Bible states all people, including children, are sinners. For children who cannot talk, a wee smack to the forearm or leg or a flick to the hand accompanied by a "no" is effective for stopping bad behaviour, the booklet states. It says with older children "smacking may be a 10-15 minute process" and they may need to be taken away in private to discuss what they did wrong. A rod should be used for smacking to correct the child, up to the age of 8, and to "drive the foolishness out", the booklet says. The Family Integrity booklet tells parents children are "not little bundles of innocence: they are little bundles of depravity and can develop into unrestrained agents of evil unless trained and disciplined". It also states that "smacking is meant to drive the foolishness, the sinful manifestations, out of the child's personality so that they do not become permanent fixtures".<hr></blockquote> <hr /> From the USA <a href="http://www.newsobserver.com/102/story/434403.html">www.newsobserver.com/102/...34403.html</a> T<blockquote>Quote:<hr>his is a sampling of Pearl's advice from "To Train Up a Child" and his newsletter, "No Greater Joy": PROBLEM Baby bites during breast-feeding SOLUTION Pull baby's hair PROBLEM Boy is a crybaby SOLUTION "When he begins to scream his defiance or hurt, just ignore him. ... If he demands attention to a supposed wound, then reach in your purse, pull out a terrible tasting herbal potion and give him a spoonful. After he gets through gagging on the vitamin and mineral supplement, tell him that he is now completely healed, and invite him to come back for another dose if he again gets hurt." PROBLEM Rebellious child who runs from discipline SOLUTION "If you have to sit on him to spank him, then do not hesitate. And hold him there until he has surrendered. Prove that you are bigger, tougher, more patiently enduring, and are unmoved by his wailing. Hold the resisting child in a helpless position for several minutes, or until he is totally surrendered. Accept no conditions for surrender -- no compromise. You are to rule over him as a benevolent sovereign. Your word is final." PROBLEM Child whines to mother after father disciplines him SOLUTION Mother must go over to child and "give him one or two licks on his exposed ankles or legs while commanding, 'Obey your father.' " PROBLEM Child lies SOLUTION Switch him 10 times at noon each day. Make him pick the tree branch. PROBLEM What to use for a rod SOLUTION For babies under age 1, a footlong willow branch shaved of its knots. For older kids, plastic plumbing pipe, a 3-foot shrub cutting or a belt to help turn a child "back from the road to hell. Painful for parents Highlighter and pen scribbles mar the pages of Joel Killion's copy of "To Train Up a Child." The Wilson father's only daughter, Moriah, is just 2, and already Killion has read Pearl's discipline book four times. "We're preparing her to be someone's mate one day," said Killion, who works in the banking industry. Killion picked up a copy of "To Train Up a Child" years ago at a yard sale, before he met his wife, Lauren. He finally read it when Lauren became pregnant. When he saw the book stashed in a goody bag for new parents delivered by a Nash County nonprofit after Moriah's birth, he felt even more confident in its methods. Applying Pearl's training techniques wasn't easy, Killion admits. Letting his baby girl cry it out from her lonely crib nearly broke the young father's heart. The regimen was even tougher on his wife, who majored in child development at East Carolina University. "No spanking" had been drilled in her head. Lauren Killion, a stay-at-home mom, said she would sit on the couch and wince while her husband switched Moriah's hand with a twig from a bush. "I used to think the switch was so mean and cruel," she said. "But all in the hands of a loving parent, it's right." Moriah is docile, and the Killions say everyone asks their secret. The Killions believe in Pearl's methods so much, they snatch up copies of "To Train Up a Child" and give them to other young parents. Diana Beck of Fuquay-Varina is a believer, too. She can't imagine rearing her children without Pearl's instruction. "He's a regular guy giving good old-fashioned advice," said Beck, who attended one of Pearl's seminars at a church in Concord years ago. Beck relied on his advice to teach her daughter, then 3, to stay in bed after being tucked in. After 23 nights of getting switched with a willow tree branch, her daughter, now 12, finally relented. "Mike Pearl taught me my daughter needed to know there was a limit," Beck said. Berry Byrd, a Pentecostal minister in Smithfield, says "To Train Up a Child" is the most brilliant parenting book he'd ever read. This month, he ordered 25 copies and passed them out to young parents in his congregation. Mothers never suspect a backlash because Pearl's books and newsletters are filled with stories of happy, godly children. The trick: training them while they are young. He urges fathers to tempt the little ones with an off-limit toy. When the child reaches for it, the father is advised to swat his hand or leg with a rod. Pearl explains in "To Train Up a Child" that he used this strategy to keep his kids from going near a shotgun. Pearl also gets creative: When his children were toddlers and strayed to the pond's edge, he pushed them in and let them flounder to prove how dangerous the pond could be.<hr></blockquote> I first read Alice Miller when trying to figure out how could so manymillions of people could go along with Hitler and similar psychopathic dictators. Not all of them could be psychopaths without conscience. Some refused to go along, others out and out resisted but most joyfully joined in. IMO Miller really had good points on how abuse trains up children to be obedient followers willing to commit evil acts. People like these who teach parents to abuse their kids and say it is loving are utterly vile.

Parenting by Dr. Dobson

Parenting by Dr. Dobson

Re: Parenting by Dr. Dobson

? 4 LP2

Re: ? 4 LP2

Re: ? 4 LP2

Re: Re-read, please, 4911!

Re: Thank you, DE

Re: Thank you, DE

Re: Thank you, DE

Re: Thank you, DE

ello

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