"Cognitive Infiltration"

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"Cognitive Infiltration"

Postby surfaceskimmer » Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:27 pm

David Ray Griffin has written a new book entitled "Cognitive Infiltration" which is a systematic dismantling of Cass Sunstein's papers (both draft, as published, and final) on conspiracy theories. Griffin addresses both the surface meaning of what Sunstein has written as well as its esoteric meanings. The link below is a Google search for the phrase in quotes. I have purchased and read the book, as well as others of Dr. Griffin's.

http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&site=&source=hp&q=%22Cognitive+Infiltration%22&aq=f&aqi=g1&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&psj=1&fp=b833ea76e37dff74
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Re: "Cognitive Infiltration"

Postby Transender46 » Wed Dec 15, 2010 4:39 pm

in this book the main thrust of DRG's argument appears to be that the FACTS surrounding 9/11 undermine's Sunstein's definition of a crippled epistomology. simply put - DRG is claiming that the facts are on his side.

unfortunately - the facts DRG presents are very easily debunked - e.g. the hijackers are turning up alive, there were no airphones on Flight 77, phonecalls to loved ones were faked, Ted Olsen was complicit in faking phone calls from his wife - who may still be alive, no plane at the Pentagon, etc etc

when you look at the evidence being presented by DRG - we are forced to wonder about the esoteric meaning of the title of his book "Cognitive Infiltration" - because it is hard to believe that DRG could be so poorly versed in the facts.
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Re: "Cognitive Infiltration"

Postby surfaceskimmer » Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:01 pm

Shirley, you jest.

But then it's easy to pick on a man who has recently suffered a medical downturn that will reduce his effectiveness as a spokesperson and author; I think he's up to nine books on 9/11 alone. I've set aside his work "Parapsychology, Philosophy and Spirituality" for later.

When DRG was asked in a public forum whether he ever feared for his safety given his continued thrashing of the official story, he said "They won't hurt me; it will only make my book sales soar."
I'm sure we can arrange, however, for someone to stand in on a public date of the issues. I'll wager on his logic over yours.

At any rate, it's a moot point, as the larger and more current issue is whether Wikileaks is a psy op designed right out of Sunstein and Vermeuele to set up a take-down of the Internet and the 9/11 Truth movement. Dr. James Fetzer thinks so, and he's taught critical thinking for 35 years. What's your shtick?
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Re: "Cognitive Infiltration"

Postby Hammer of Los » Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:15 am

(T)he larger and more current issue is whether Wikileaks is a psy op designed right out of Sunstein and Vermeuele to set up a take-down of the Internet and the 9/11 Truth movement. Dr. James Fetzer thinks so.


Oh, does he? Personally, I am not at all sure that that adds any credibility to the proposition. In fact, in a curious and almost indiscernible way, it might even undermine it. Fetzer says some funny things sometimes, plus I don't like his connection to Kevin Barratt, whose writings verge on hate speech sometimes. I wouldn't recommend either of those "thinkers." But those are just my opinions, take 'em or leave 'em.

Griffin I love however. He must be a really top disinformation professional, because I find him extremely plausible.
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Re: "Cognitive Infiltration"

Postby surfaceskimmer » Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:03 pm

That battle was in a different field some time ago. That claim that DRG was a disinformation specialist, in that case attended with some detail in its speculation which was proven to have been copied off one of the more prominent debunking sites whose primary source individual/inspiration was proven to have some very real issues of credibility himself despite putting himself forth as the veritable source of credibility, was countered quickly by a little Googling, an e-mail exchange, and a post. This was followed up by a little rigorous thought and intuition which indeed proved that the claimant was in fact a Federal employee in the Los Angeles area. You wouldn't happen to be arising from the ashes again, would you?

At any rate, if you are tossing down a gauntlet of some sort, I'm going to refrain from picking it up. First, the fellow you charge with being a disinformation specialist has written many many books. I look forward to your detailed breakdown and critique of each one of them, and the places, people and web sites that providing supporting information. Be sure to publish it rather than posting it here. Second, DRG has suffered a health event which suggests he ought to spend the rest of whatever earthly time he has resting comfortably with his beloved wife. If your game is trashing reputations of people with a life's work and product that makes yours look like peanuts -- if it wasn't, you wouldn't be spending your time here --, then that's a game you'll have to play with someone else. And finally, I made a decision a long time ago that my own time is best spent in other pursuits than playing internet discussion jousting with the likes of you.
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Re: "Cognitive Infiltration"

Postby Transender46 » Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:06 pm

DRG from “Cognitive Infiltration”:

American Airlines’ Boeing 757s did not have onboard phones. This information, which was provided by an American Airlines representative in 2004, was confimed in 2006 by another AA representative who said: “We do not have phones on our Boeing 757. The passengers on flight 77 used their own personal cellular phones to make out calls during the terrorist attacks.”


From this DRG reiterates throughout his book, repeatedly, that calls from Flight 77 were “impossible.” - He builds on this theme, claiming that Ted Olson is complicit in a deception involving the phone calls from his wife, Barbara.

One problem:

AA 757s DID have airphones until they were discontinued in 2002.

News report from February 6, 2002:

“Airline Grounds In-flight Phone Service,” CNET News.com

Source: http://news.com.com/2100-1033-831093.html

and here: http://news.cnet.com/2100-1033-831093.html

American Airlines will discontinue its AT&T in-flight phone service by March 31, a spokesman for the airline said Wednesday.

American Airlines will discontinue its AT&T in-flight phone service by March 31, a spokesman for the airline said Wednesday.

"Almost since their installation in 1996, we've seen a dramatic decrease in the use of these phones," said American Airlines spokesman Todd Burke, who added that the service averages about three calls a day per aircraft.


So here we see AA phones were removed.

There are many many other sources which document the fact that phones were indeed present on AA 757s - and later deactivated . AA 757 Aircraft Maintenance Manuals refer to these phones.

Here is an actual picture of the phones on an AA 757:

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0020665/

we even see that DRG acknowledged his mistake on May 7, 2007:

My Error

I based my conclusion on conversations that Ian Henshall and Rowland Morgan had with American Airlines in 2004 while they were co-authoring book. In this book, 9/11 Revealed, they said: “A call by us to American Airlines’ London Office produced a definitive statement from Laeti Hyver that (AA’s) 757s do not have Airfones. This was confirmed by an email from AA in the US.” (2)

My mistake, like that of Henshall and Rowland before me, was to assume that the AA spokesperson and this website were talking about AA 757s as they had always been, not simply about 757s at the time of the query, in 2004.


Source: http://911blogger.com/node/8408


Yet – in DRG’s most current book Cognitive Infiltration he revives this myth and yet again claims that 757s simply did not have airphones. He in fact uses the same 2006 quote that he himself had disavowed in 2007.

Explain this to me in the context of the “credibility” that you site.
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Re: "Cognitive Infiltration"

Postby Transender46 » Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:32 pm

either there were phones on AA 757s

or there wasn't

which is it?
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Re: "Cognitive Infiltration"

Postby surfaceskimmer » Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:34 am

In 1975 Salandria told Gaeton Fonzi: "I'm afraid we were misled. All the critics, myself included, were misled very early. I see that now. We spent too much time and effort microanalyzing the details of the assassination when all the time it was obvious, it was blatantly obvious that it was a conspiracy. Don't you think that the men who killed Kennedy had the means to do it in the most sophisticated and subtle way? They chose not to. Instead, they picked the shooting gallery that was Dealey Plaza and did it in the most barbarous and openly arrogant manner. The cover story was transparent and designed not to hold, to fall apart at the slightest scrutiny. The forces that killed Kennedy wanted the message clear: 'We are in control and no one - not the President, nor Congress, nor any elected official - no one can do anything about it.' It was a message to the people that their Government was powerless."

As previously noted, I'm not going to waste my time.
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Re: "Cognitive Infiltration"

Postby Transender46 » Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:47 am

I have plenty of time

(voice morphing unit ON)
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Re: "Cognitive Infiltration"

Postby surfaceskimmer » Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:57 am

Okay, Shirley. With your voice morphing unit on, you can even have a conversation with yourself and all other invited guests. :partyhat
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Re: "Cognitive Infiltration"

Postby Transender46 » Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:57 am

And u endorse Dr Fetzer?

Lol

Add a space beam to the mix
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Re: "Cognitive Infiltration"

Postby lupercal » Sat Dec 18, 2010 12:04 am

^ Fetzer doesn't say space beams brought down the towers, but that's how his argument is deceptively represented by spook plants seeking to discredit him, and no I'm not saying you are one, but they're out there. Fetzer and Griffin are the gold standard of "parapolitical" writing as far as I've seen, and I've looked at several of their books, and they're well-sourced and persuasive. I can't comment on the airphones but I don't think they're determinative, and the fact that the airlines discontinued them suggests that they didn't work anyway.

The point is that often a checkered reputation simply means the noise machine has been busy shitting on someone swiftboat-style. On the other hand, if they make someone out to be a hero (Assange for example), you can pretty much count on their being patsies, operatives or agents.
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Re: "Cognitive Infiltration"

Postby Transender46 » Sat Dec 18, 2010 11:32 am

Dr. Jim Fetzer Interviews Dr. Judy Wood about "The 9/11 Star Wars ...

911blogger.com/node/4449 - Options

Dr Fetzer is one of the biggest disinfo clowns in 911 truth

He has worked exclusively with no-planers and space beamers and pretty much every other clown in the movement
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Re: "Cognitive Infiltration"

Postby surfaceskimmer » Sat Dec 18, 2010 6:37 pm

... and Joe Lieberman, the Senator from Israel, says there's no need for a new investigation, that the Commission did a fine and upstanding job.... and Victor Bout languishes inside a US jail.

Well, have this conversation without me.
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Re: "Cognitive Infiltration"

Postby Transender46 » Sun Dec 19, 2010 1:12 am

I don't agree with Lieberman. but there are plenty of non-jewish non-pro-Israel people saying the same thing. what's your point?

please don't tell me you're going to play the Joos-did-it card.

and what about Bout? (lol - fun with syllables)

arms dealer. "Merchant of Death" what do YOU know about Bout (can't help myself now) that you would like to share with us? :clown
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