Re: 9/11 Info Dump
Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:40 pm
[p.28 of dump]
This FOX Noise series was an eye-opener; it was soon taken down from the Fox website ("This Story No Longer Exists"). I got the transcript back when from Cryptome:
[NYFD, Zarrillo, WTC &tc.]
Richard Zarrillo, "EMT working in fire operations as the special event coordinator.":
This FOX Noise series was an eye-opener; it was soon taken down from the Fox website ("This Story No Longer Exists"). I got the transcript back when from Cryptome:
FOX NEWS – 4-Part Carl Cameron Report on Israeli Spying
24 December 2001 – http://www.cryptome.org
Fox News, beginning mid-December, reported a four-part series on alleged Israeli spying on the US telecommunication systems through firms which provide telephone billing and assist FBI wiretaps. Recently the series was withdrawn by Fox News without explanation. The series has been recovered from private archives for publication here.
When the series first appeared it seemed to be another case of Israel bashing, in particular the parts that rehashed years-old allegations (we've linked to a 1996 GAO report cited by Fox, and other alleged participants' Web sites). And the series may well be calculated disinformation, if not by Fox then by its sources.
However, Fox's unexplained yanking the series is worth noting. Except for a few comments on the Net, there has been no mainline media follow-up on the reason for the yank. If Fox found that the reports are in error, that is the sort of thing that usually brings heat from competitors. If the withdrawal was due to government intervention that would indeed be news, but hardly unprecedented these days. If the yank was due to private intervention that too would be worth learning about -- who, when, why.
Note: Links within reports added by Cryptome.
Part 1 of 4
[No date available.]
Original source: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,40684,00.html (File no longer available on Fox News.)
BRIT HUME, HOST: It has been more than 16 years since a civilian working for the Navy was charged with passing secrets to Israel. Jonathan Pollard pled guilty to conspiracy to commit espionage and is serving a life sentence. At first, Israeli leaders claimed Pollard was part of a rogue operation, but later took responsibility for his work.
Now Fox News has learned some U.S. investigators believe that there are Israelis again very much engaged in spying in and on the U.S., who may have known things they didn't tell us before Sept. 11. Fox News correspondent Carl Cameron has details in the first of a four-part series.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CARL CAMERON, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Since Sept. 11, more than 60 Israelis have been arrested or detained, either under the new patriot anti-terrorism law, or for immigration violations. A handful of active Israeli military were among those detained, according to investigators, who say some of the detainees also failed polygraph questions when asked about alleged surveillance activities against and in the United States.
There is no indication that the Israelis were involved in the 9/11 attacks, but investigators suspect that they Israelis may have gathered intelligence about the attacks in advance, and not shared it. A highly placed investigator said there are "tie-ins." But when asked for details, he flatly refused to describe them, saying, "evidence linking these Israelis to 9/11 is classified. I cannot tell you about evidence that has been gathered. It's classified information."
Fox News has learned that one group of Israelis, spotted in North Carolina recently, is suspected of keeping an apartment in California to spy on a group of Arabs who the United States is also investigating for links to terrorism. Numerous classified documents obtained by Fox News indicate that even prior to Sept. 11, as many as 140 other Israelis had been detained or arrested in a secretive and sprawling investigation into suspected espionage by Israelis in the United States.
Investigators from numerous government agencies are part of a working group that's been compiling evidence since the mid '90s. These documents detail hundreds of incidents in cities and towns across the country that investigators say, "may well be an organized intelligence gathering activity."
The first part of the investigation focuses on Israelis who say they are art students from the University of Jerusalem and Bazala Academy. They repeatedly made contact with U.S. government personnel, the report says, by saying they wanted to sell cheap art or handiwork.
Documents say they, "targeted and penetrated military bases," the DEA, FBI and dozens of government facilities, and even secret offices and unlisted private homes of law enforcement and intelligence personnel. The majority of those questioned, "stated they served in military intelligence, electronic surveillance intercept and or explosive ordinance units."
Another part of the investigation has resulted in the detention and arrests of dozens of Israelis at American mall kiosks, where they've been selling toys called Puzzle Car and Zoom Copter. Investigators suspect a front.
Shortly after The New York Times and Washington Post reported the Israeli detentions last months, the carts began vanishing. Zoom Copter's Web page says, "We are aware of the situation caused by thousands of mall carts being closed at the last minute. This in no way reflects the quality of the toy or its salability. The problem lies in the operators' business policies."
Why would Israelis spy in and on the U.S.? A general accounting office investigation referred to Israel as country A and said, "According to a U.S. intelligence agency, the government of country A conducts the most aggressive espionage operations against the U.S. of any U.S. ally."
A defense intelligence report said Israel has a voracious appetite for information and said, "the Israelis are motivated by strong survival instincts which dictate every possible facet of their political and economical policies. It aggressively collects military and industrial technology and the U.S. is a high priority target."
The document concludes: "Israel possesses the resources and technical capability to achieve its collection objectives."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
A spokesman for the Israeli embassy here in Washington issued a denial saying that any suggestion that Israelis are spying in or on the U.S. is "simply not true." There are other things to consider. And in the days ahead, we'll take a look at the U.S. phone system and law enforcement's methods for wiretaps. And an investigation that both have been compromised by our friends overseas.
HUME: Carl, what about this question of advanced knowledge of what was going to happen on 9/11? How clear are investigators that some Israeli agents may have known something?
CAMERON: It's very explosive information, obviously, and there's a great deal of evidence that they say they have collected — none of it necessarily conclusive. It's more when they put it all together. A bigger question, they say, is how could they not have know? Almost a direct quote.
HUME: Going into the fact that they were spying on some Arabs, right?
CAMERON: Correct.
HUME: All right, Carl, thanks very much.
Part 2 of 4
Original source: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,40747,00.html (File no longer available on Fox News.)
Could information that fell into an Israeli-based private communications company impeded the Sept. 11 inquiry?
BRIT HUME, HOST: Last time we reported on the approximately 60 Israelis who had been detained in connection with the Sept. 11 terrorism investigation. Carl Cameron reported that U.S. investigators suspect that some of these Israelis were spying on Arabs in this country, and may have turned up information on the planned terrorist attacks back in September that was not passed on.
Tonight, in the second of four reports on spying by Israelis in the U.S., we learn about an Israeli-based private communications company, for whom a half-dozen of those 60 detained suspects worked. American investigators fear information generated by this firm may have fallen into the wrong hands and had the effect of impeded the Sept. 11 terror inquiry. Here's Carl Cameron's second report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CARL CAMERON, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over):
Fox News has learned that some American terrorist investigators fear certain suspects in the Sept. 11 attacks may have managed to stay ahead of them, by knowing who and when investigators are calling on the telephone. How?
By obtaining and analyzing data that's generated every time someone in the U.S. makes a call.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What city and state, please?
CAMERON: Here's how the system works. Most directory assistance calls, and virtually all call records and billing in the U.S. are done for the phone companies by Amdocs Ltd., an Israeli-based private telecommunications company.
Amdocs has contracts with the 25 biggest phone companies in America, and more worldwide. The White House and other secure government phone lines are protected, but it is virtually impossible to make a call on normal phones without generating an Amdocs record of it.
In recent years, the FBI and other government agencies have investigated Amdocs more than once. The firm has repeatedly and adamantly denied any security breaches or wrongdoing. But sources tell Fox News that in 1999, the super secret National Security Agency, headquartered in northern Maryland, issued what's called a Top Secret sensitive compartmentalized information report, TS/SCI, warning that records of calls in the United States were getting into foreign hands in Israel, in particular.
Investigators don't believe calls are being listened to, but the data about who is calling whom and when is plenty valuable in itself. An internal Amdocs memo to senior company executives suggests just how Amdocs generated call records could be used. “Widespread data mining techniques and algorithms.... combining both the properties of the customer (e.g., credit rating) and properties of the specific ‘behavior….’” Specific behavior, such as who the customers are calling.
The Amdocs memo says the system should be used to prevent phone fraud. But U.S. counterintelligence analysts say it could also be used to spy through the phone system. Fox News has learned that the N.S.A has held numerous classified conferences to warn the F.B.I. and C.I.A. how Amdocs records could be used. At one NSA briefing, a diagram by the Argon national lab was used to show that if the phone records are not secure, major security breaches are possible.
Another briefing document said, "It has become increasingly apparent that systems and networks are vulnerable.…Such crimes always involve unauthorized persons, or persons who exceed their authorization...citing on exploitable vulnerabilities."
Those vulnerabilities are growing, because according to another briefing, the U.S. relies too much on foreign companies like Amdocs for high-tech equipment and software.
"Many factors have led to increased dependence on code developed overseas.... We buy rather than train or develop solutions."
U.S. intelligence does not believe the Israeli government is involved in a misuse of information, and Amdocs insists that its data is secure. What U.S. government officials are worried about, however, is the possibility that Amdocs data could get into the wrong hands, particularly organized crime.
And that would not be the first thing that such a thing has happened. Fox News has documents of a 1997 drug trafficking case in Los Angeles, in which telephone information, the type that Amdocs collects, was used to "completely compromise the communications of the FBI, the Secret Service, the DEA and the LAPD."
We'll have that and a lot more in the days ahead Brit.
HUME: Carl, I want to take you back to your report last night on those 60 Israelis who were detained in the anti-terror investigation, and the suspicion that some investigators have that they may have picked up information on the 9/11 attacks ahead of time and not passed it on.
There was a report, you'll recall, that the Mossad, the Israeli intelligence agency, did indeed send representatives to the U.S. to warn, just before 9/11, that a major terrorist attack was imminent. How does that leave room for the lack of a warning?
CAMERON: I remember the report, Brit. We did it first internationally right here on your show on the 14th. What investigators are saying is that that warning from the Mossad was nonspecific and general, and they believe that it may have had something to do with the desire to protect what are called sources and methods in the intelligence community. The suspicion being, perhaps those sources and methods were taking place right here in the United States.
The question came up in select intelligence committee on Capitol Hill today. They intend to look into what we reported last night, and specifically that possibility Brit.
HUME: So in other words, the problem wasn't lack of a warning, the problem was lack of useful details?
CAMERON: Quantity of information.
HUME: All right, Carl, thank you very much
Part 3 of 4
Original source: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,40824,00.html (File no longer available on Fox News.)
FNC
Carl Cameron
Friday, December 14, 2001
This partial transcript of Special Report with Brit Hume, Dec. 13, was provided by the Federal Document Clearing House. Click here to order the complete transcript.
BRIT HUME, HOST: Last time we reported on an Israeli-based company called Amdocs Ltd. that generates the computerized records and billing data for nearly every phone call made in America. As Carl Cameron reported, U.S. investigators digging into the 9/11 terrorist attacks fear that suspects may have been tipped off to what they were doing by information leaking out of Amdocs.
In tonight's report, we learn that the concern about phone security extends to another company, founded in Israel, that provides the technology that the U.S. government uses for electronic eavesdropping.
Here is Carl Cameron's third report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CARL CAMERON, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over):
The company is Comverse Infosys [lawful interception solutions], a subsidiary of an Israeli-run private telecommunications firm, with offices throughout the U.S. It provides wiretapping equipment for law enforcement. Here's how wiretapping works in the U.S.
Every time you make a call, it passes through the nation's elaborate network of switchers and routers run by the phone companies. Custom computers and software, made by companies like Comverse, are tied into that network to intercept, record and store the wiretapped calls, and at the same time transmit them to investigators.
The manufacturers have continuing access to the computers so they can service them and keep them free of glitches. This process was authorized by the 1994 Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act, or CALEA. Senior government officials have now told Fox News that while CALEA made wiretapping easier, it has led to a system that is seriously vulnerable to compromise, and may have undermined the whole wiretapping system.
Indeed, Fox News has learned that Attorney General John Ashcroft and FBI Director Robert Mueller were both warned Oct. 18 in a hand-delivered letter from 15 local, state and federal law enforcement officials, who complained that "law enforcement's current electronic surveillance capabilities are less effective today than they were at the time CALEA was enacted."
Congress [sic, probably Comverse] insists the equipment it installs is secure. But the complaint about this system is that the wiretap computer programs made by Comverse have, in effect, a back door through which wiretaps themselves can be intercepted by unauthorized parties.
Adding to the suspicions is the fact that in Israel, Comverse works closely with the Israeli government, and under special programs, gets reimbursed for up to 50 percent of its research and development costs by the Israeli Ministry of Industry and Trade. But investigators within the DEA, INS and FBI have all told Fox News that to pursue or even suggest Israeli spying through Comverse is considered career suicide.
And sources say that while various F.B.I. inquiries into Comverse have been conducted over the years, they've been halted before the actual equipment has ever been thoroughly tested for leaks. A 1999 F.C.C. document indicates several government agencies expressed deep concerns that too many unauthorized non-law enforcement personnel can access the wiretap system.
And the FBI's own nondescript office in Chantilly, Virginia that actually oversees the CALEA wiretapping program, is among the most agitated about the threat. But there is a bitter turf war internally at F.B.I.
It is the FBI's office in Quantico, Virginia, that has jurisdiction over awarding contracts and buying intercept equipment. And for years, they've thrown much of the business to Comverse. A handful of former U.S. law enforcement officials involved in awarding Comverse government contracts over the years now work for the company.
Numerous sources say some of those individuals were asked to leave government service under what knowledgeable sources call "troublesome circumstances" that remain under administrative review within the Justice Department.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
And what troubles investigators most, particularly in New York, in the counter terrorism investigation of the World Trade Center attack, is that on a number of cases, suspects that they had sought to wiretap and survey immediately changed their telecommunications processes. They started acting much differently as soon as those supposedly secret wiretaps went into place Brit.
HUME: Carl, is there any reason to suspect in this instance that the Israeli government is involved?
CAMERON: No, there's not. But there are growing instincts in an awful lot of law enforcement officials in a variety of agencies who suspect that it had begun compiling evidence, and a highly classified investigation into that possibility Brit.
Part 4 of 4
Original source: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,40981,00.html (File no longer available on Fox News.)
TONY SNOW, HOST: This week, senior correspondent Carl Cameron has reported on a longstanding government espionage investigation. Federal officials this year have arrested or detained nearly 200 Israeli citizens suspected of belonging to an "organized intelligence-gathering operation." The Bush administration has deported most of those arrested after Sept. 11, although some are in custody under the new anti-terrorism law.
Cameron also investigates the possibility that an Israeli firm generated billing data that could be used for intelligence purpose, and describes concerns that the federal government's own wiretapping system may be vulnerable. Tonight, in part four of the series, we'll learn about the probable roots of the probe: a drug case that went bad four years ago in L.A.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CARL CAMERON, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Los Angeles, 1997, a major local, state and federal drug investigating sours. The suspects: Israeli organized crime with operations in New York, Miami, Las Vegas, Canada, Israel and Egypt. The allegations: cocaine and ecstasy trafficking, and sophisticated white-collar credit card and computer fraud.
The problem: according to classified law enforcement documents obtained by Fox News, the bad guys had the cops’ beepers, cell phones, even home phones under surveillance. Some who did get caught admitted to having hundreds of numbers and using them to avoid arrest.
"This compromised law enforcement communications between LAPD detectives and other assigned law enforcement officers working various aspects of the case. The organization discovered communications between organized crime intelligence division detectives, the FBI and the Secret Service."
Shock spread from the DEA to the FBI in Washington, and then the CIA. An investigation of the problem, according to law enforcement documents, concluded, "The organization has apparent extensive access to database systems to identify pertinent personal and biographical information."
When investigators tried to find out where the information might have come from, they looked at Amdocs, a publicly traded firm based in Israel. Amdocs generates billing data for virtually every call in America, and they do credit checks. The company denies any leaks, but investigators still fear that the firm's data is getting into the wrong hands.
When investigators checked their own wiretapping system for leaks, they grew concerned about potential vulnerabilities in the computers that intercept, record and store the wiretapped calls. A main contractor is Comverse Infosys, which works closely with the Israeli government, and under a special grant program, is reimbursed for up to 50 percent of its research and development costs by Israel's Ministry of Industry and Trade.
Asked this week about another sprawling investigation and the detention of 60 Israeli since Sept. 11, the Bush administration treated the questions like hot potatoes.
ARI FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I would just refer you to the Department of Justice with that. I'm not familiar with the report.
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: I'm aware that some Israeli citizens have been detained. With respect to why they're being detained and the other aspects of your question whether it's because they're in intelligence services, or what they were doing I will defer to the Department of Justice and the FBI to answer that.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CAMERON: Beyond the 60 apprehended or detained, and many deported since Sept. 11, another group of 140 Israeli individuals have been arrested and detained in this year in what government documents describe as "an organized intelligence gathering operation," designed to "penetrate government facilities." Most of those individuals said they had served in the Israeli military, which is compulsory there.
But they also had, most of them, intelligence expertise, and either worked for Amdocs or other companies in Israel that specialize in wiretapping. Earlier this week, the Israeli embassy in Washington denied any spying against or in the United States Tony.
SNOW: Carl, we've heard the comments from Ari Fleischer and Colin Powell. What are officials saying behind the scenes?
CAMERON: Well, there's real pandemonium described at the FBI, the DEA and the INS. A lot of these problems have been well known to some investigators, many of who have contributed to the reporting on this story. And what they say is happening is supervisors and management are now going back and collecting much of the information, because there's tremendous pressure from the top levels of all of those agencies to find out exactly what's going on.
At the DEA and the FBI already a variety of administration reviews are under way, in addition to the investigation of the phenomenon. They want to find out how it is all this has come out, as well as be very careful because of the explosive nature and very political ramifications of the story itself Tony.
SNOW: All right, Carl, thanks.
END SERIES
Here are comments on the series by Ronald Rivest, a premier US cryptographer and security scientist:
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 10:41:33 -0500
To: cryptography@wasabisystems.com
From: "Ronald L. Rivest" <rivest@mit.edu>
Subject: Israeli compromise of U.S. telecommunications?
I found the following four-part report by Carl Cameron rather shocking:
Why should we be freely giving to Israeli corporations information (call records, CALEA information) that requires court orders to obtain in this country? Such information is obviously sensitive, and the well-motivated efforts to strengthen and protect our national infrastructure should reasonably include mandating that such information not be routinely handled by any foreign entities...
A more recent story indicates that the compromise was probably severe; criminals were escaping detection because of the compromise:
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/article ... 4826.shtml
This vindicates concerns many of us have expressed over the years about creating single points of failure in wiretapping systems (e.g. the vulnerability of key escrow, etc.). Of course, in this case the vulnerability was intentionally created, it seems, by giving critical capabilities to foreign entities...
Ronald L. Rivest
Room 324, 200 Technology Square, Cambridge MA 02139
Tel 617-253-5880, Fax 617-258-9738, Email <rivest@mit.edu>
Excerpted from: Economic Espionage: Information on Threat from U.S. Allies (Testimony, 02/28/96, GAO/T-NSIAD-96-114).
COUNTRY A
-------------------------------------------------------- Chapter 0:1.1
According to a U.S. intelligence agency, the government of Country A conducts the most aggressive espionage operation against the United States of any U.S. ally. Classified military information and sensitive military technologies are high-priority targets for the intelligence agencies of this country. Country A seeks this information for three reasons: (1) to help the technological development of its own defense industrial base, (2) to sell or trade the information with other countries for economic reasons, and (3) to sell or trade the information with other countries to develop political alliances and alternative sources of arms. According to a classified 1994 report produced by a U.S. government interagency working group on U.S. critical technology companies,\2
Country A routinely resorts to state-sponsored espionage using covert collection techniques to obtain sensitive U.S. economic information and technology. Agents of Country A collect a variety of classified and proprietary information through observation, elicitation, and theft.
The following are intelligence agency examples of Country A information collection efforts:
An espionage operation run by the intelligence organization
responsible for collecting scientific and technological
information for Country A paid a U.S. government employee to
obtain U.S. classified military intelligence documents.
Several citizens of Country A were caught in the United States
stealing sensitive technology used in manufacturing artillery
gun tubes.
Agents of Country A allegedly stole design plans for a classified
reconnaissance system from a U.S. company and gave them to a
defense contractor from Country A.
A company from Country A is suspected of surreptitiously monitoring
a DOD telecommunications system to obtain classified information
for Country A intelligence.
Citizens of Country A were investigated for allegations of passing
advanced aerospace design technology to unauthorized scientists
and researchers.
Country A is suspected of targeting U.S. avionics, missile
telemetry and testing data, and aircraft communication systems
for intelligence operations.
It has been determined that Country A targeted specialized software
that is used to store data in friendly aircraft warning systems.
Country A has targeted information on advanced materials and
coatings for collection. A Country A government agency
allegedly obtained information regarding a chemical finish used
on missile reentry vehicles from a U.S. person.
--------------------
\2 Report on U.S. Critical Technology Companies, Report to Congress
on Foreign Acquisition of and Espionage Activities Against U.S.
Critical Technology Companies (1994).
[NYFD, Zarrillo, WTC &tc.]
Richard Zarrillo, "EMT working in fire operations as the special event coordinator.":
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/p ... 110161.PDF
File No. 9110161
WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW
EMT RICHARD ZARRILLO
Interview Date: October 25, 2001
Transcribed by Nancy Francis
2
R. ZARRILLO
MR. CASTORINA: Today's date is October 25th,
2001. I'm Ron Castorina conducting an interview in the
office of BITS. Your name –
MR. McCOURT: Tom McCourt.
MR. CASTORINA: -- is also accompanied with
me conducting this interview.
Q. Your name, sir?
A. Richard Zarrillo.
Q. And your rank and title?
A. I'm an EMT working in fire operations as the
special event coordinator.
Q. Can you tell me, on September 11th, 2001, the
events that took place that day, whatever you can
remember?
A. Sure. While sitting at my desk, probably
just after the first plane had hit the tower, Chief
Ganci had come running across the hall yelling
something about a plane hitting the twin towers. Most
of us thought he was joking until we looked out the
window and saw one of the towers had flames coming out
of it. I placed a call to Chief Peruggia to ask him
his location. He told me he was just coming over the
Verrazano Bridge about to get in the HOV lane. I told
him maybe you want to start heading to Manhattan, I'll
3
R. ZARRILLO
meet you in the city, this way we could hook up and do
whatever we needed to do. At that point he thought I
was joking. He cursed at me and hung up. Captain
Nahmod was sitting next to me and he said we need to
get some equipment, find out who's going, who's not
going, try and make our way there.
I spoke with Chief Peruggia. He called me
back and said maybe you and Abdo, Captain Nahmod, need
to head into the city to be part of the command,
runners or administratively, whatever we can do to help
out. I was able to locate a helmet from one of the
people in RCC. Captain Nahmod and I tried to find a
car to get into the city. Chief Ramos was bringing us
downstairs to get a pool car, so I think Commissioner
Drury happened to be walking in at the wrong time and
we asked him to drive us into the city.
I'm not sure of the exact time, but I believe
as we were coming over the Brooklyn Bridge was when the
second plane hit the second tower. We parked -- I want
to say it's on like Broadway right off of Vesey Street,
between Vesey and Barclay. Captain Nahmod and I
started heading down Vesey Street towards where we
thought the command post would be. At that time we had
received a page per Chief Peruggia to go into OEM at
4
R. ZARRILLO
No. 7 World Trade and activate our post in OEM.
Captain Nahmod and I were running down Vesey Street
stepping over airplane pieces, several bodies and
whatnot.
Q. Can you describe how much debris was around?
A. There was what looked like the front wheel
assembly of an airplane. Unknown the size of the plane
that had hit, it just looked like it was one pair of
wheels on an assembly, pieces of metal with rivets in
them, a few body parts scattered around.
Q. Was debris still falling?
A. Debris was falling. It looked like birds.
There were people falling from the towers or jumping,
whatever it was they were doing. Abdo and I went into
No. 7, activated OEM, placed calls to EMS Citywide,
RCC, to tell them we were there and we were activated.
Maybe five, ten minutes, not even ten minutes
later, a rep from OEM came into the main room and said
we need to evacuate the building; there's a third plane
inbound. That was the only thing I really heard
because I said, Abdo, we've got to go, and we made it
down to the lobby of the building, street level, met up
with Chief Peruggia in the lobby of the building. He
said that there was no third plane but we needed to
5
R. ZARRILLO
re-establish OEM right there so we can coordinate what
was going on. He had already been to the command post,
so he told us, and he was trying to release people back
to be operational. He was looking for the Fire guy to
go back in. He was there with Captain Yakimovich. In
OEM with Captain Nahmod and I was Chief Maggio, who is
now retired, and another firefighter from the 1st
Division. We were really trying to establish OEM and a
treatment sector in the lobby of the building because
there were people coming around us.
Again, times are a little fuzzy initially for
me. A few minutes later, John came to me and said you
need to go find Chief Ganci and relay the following
message: that the buildings have been compromised, we
need to evacuate, they're going to collapse. I said
okay. I went down Vesey Street towards West.
Q. You were by yourself?
A. I was by myself, me and my helmet and my
radio. I got to the corner of Vesey and West. I found
some EMS vehicles. I think I saw Chief Gombo there.
I'm not really sure. I mentioned to the EMS people
there, again, not knowing who they were, I said you
need to get away from here, the building might
collapse, we need to leave this spot.
6
R. ZARRILLO
As I was walking towards the Fire command
post, I found Steve Mosiello. I said, Steve, where's
the boss? I have to give him a message. He said,
well, what's the message? I said the buildings are
going to collapse; we need to evac everybody out. With
a very confused look he said who told you that? I said
I was just with John at OEM. OEM says the buildings
are going to collapse; we need to get out.
He escorted me over to Chief Ganci. He said,
hey, Pete, we got a message that the buildings are
going to collapse. His reply was who the fuck told you
that? Then Steve brought me in and with Chief Ganci,
Commissioner Feehan, Steve, I believe Chief Turi was
initially there, I said, listen, I was just at OEM.
The message I was given was that the buildings are
going to collapse; we need to get our people out. At
that moment, this thunderous, rolling roar came down
and that's when the building came down, the first tower
came down.
The command post was situated right in front
of 3 World Financial, the American Express Building.
The garage was open and as that rumble started and we
saw it was coming down, the firemen that were in the
command area, I believe most of the chiefs, we all ran
7
R. ZARRILLO
into the garage of that building. It became dark, hard
to breathe. Nobody had any equipment because most of
the firemen dropped everything as they were running.
It became an obstacle course to get into the garage.
Again, it's sketchy with time, but it may
have been anywhere from ten to 20 minutes by the time
we found an emergency exit to get out of the building.
It was dark. There was no light.
Q. Who were you with at this point? Were you by
yourself?
A. I had two firemen. What I did was I took
about ten or 15 running steps into the garage and
hugged into a corner of a wall, an indentation, and I
felt like two or three guys get in behind me and
actually made it a tighter huddle. The dust, the cloud
came rolling in. It got dark. As the dust and the
noise started to settle, we were all tapping up to see
where each other were.
I met up with Chief Cassano at the stairwell,
and I believe Chief Carrasquillo was around there. I
know I met up with him outside on the lobby of Vesey
Street from that building, when we got out. Lots of
firemen, you know, faces, no names I could really
identify, except for Sal.
8
R. ZARRILLO
We made it up the staircase into the lobby, I
believe it was 3, it may have been one of those little
cross lobbies that were there, and got out onto Vesey
Street. I met up with EMT Mike Ober, who had been
driving Chief Kowalczyk. He was his driver for a
while. I met up with him. I found Chief Carrasquillo,
who was with Chief Cassano, a few others, you know,
faces, again, that I found, and we were walking around
trying to make -- what happened? It was still cloudy,
that very fine but heavy dust that was in the air.
Once I got out of the building, maybe ten
minutes from there, that unforgettable rolling started.
Q. The same sound you heard earlier?
A. The same sound I heard earlier.
Q. Where were you at this point?
A. I was on West and Vesey, probably in the
middle of the intersection, trying to find people that
I knew. At this point I didn't know where John was,
where Abdo was. I don't know what happened to No. 7.
I knew the building was coming down. I watched it come
down on us, but I don't know where anybody else is.
As that roar was happening on the second time
around, I was running down Vesey Street towards the
water with a few thoughts in my head. One, if I hit
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the water, I was swimming home, or just getting into
the water for cover, if necessary. The marina was
right there. I ended up making a right on North End
Avenue and there was a building -- EMS, again, I know
Chief Villani was there. I saw Chief Pascale later
on. I believe Chief Kowalczyk was in there also. The
MERV was stationed on North End Avenue for a while and
I remember emergency service was on the southbound side
of North End near Vesey for a while also. We made it
into that building as the second one came down. Again,
the clouds and all the other debris.
Q. You were protected in that building?
A. In the building.
Q. Which building was that?
A. There was a building right there on the
corner. Maybe 15, 20 feet off the corner, there was an
entrance into a building, and that's where -- it was
mostly glass windows and we were concerned that the
glass was going to implode.
Q. Did that face the river?
A. It faced the river and that was protection in
my view.
Q. About a three-block distance?
A. It's actually one city block, but still that
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cloud came over and passed and –
Q. Did it get black there, too?
A. It got really dark. Most of us were looking
for cover, trying to avoid anything else that was
coming down. While we were in that building, we were
told -- again, I don't know where anybody is.
Q. You had no radio, right?
A. I had a 400 radio. I couldn't get through to
anybody.
Q. Were you hearing anything, Mayday, anything
on the radio?
A. No. The 400 -- I was on EMS Citywide and I
don't know if my radio was clogged or the batteries.
It could have been a hundred different things.
Q. Can you just mark on the map where you were?
Just roughly.
A. We were right about here.
Q. Okay.
A. I didn't know where John was. Outside of the
job, John, Abdo and I are old friends and that was my
concern, you know, how am I going to tell these guys'
wives, we all live near each other, that I followed his
direction and now I can't find either of them.
While we were in this building, we were told
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that there was a gas main rupture or a gas leak and we
needed to evacuate that building.
Q. Who told you this?
A. It was just somebody, a security guard or
somebody. But then Chief Villani and all the other
chiefs that were in there said we need to gather all of
our equipment because they had set up a treatment area,
there were ten sets of equipment with stretchers from
ambulances, and we all took all that stuff out and
started heading down North End hoping to find -- or
maybe it was down toward -- no. Down North End Avenue
to try and find another place we could go into.
Again, at this point there was a lot of
disorientation. Nobody really was fully aware as to
what was going on. The radios had gone silent, you
know, guessing, because the repeater tower went down.
Nobody knew what was going on. I thought I heard a
helicopter. There were a lot of people running, lots
of patients or would-be patients running past us.
Q. Where were they headed?
A. Anywhere they could get away from. The
water.
Q. Heading away from the buildings?
A. Running north on West Street. I went into –
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there was a school not too far down from here. I meet
up with Mike Cahill from Division 6 and Gerald Garcia.
They were down there. The MERV had already tried to
find another place to set up and was moving down North
End Avenue. I think it was Garcia. We went into a
school. I wanted to just wash my face off, use a
bathroom, and as we were in that school building, we
were told we had to evacuate that building because,
again, a gas rupture. That came from one of the school
officials, a name I couldn't tell you. Face? Probably
not now recognize.
We made it back on to West Street, I don't
remember what the cross was, and we started heading --
I heard people saying we're going to Chelsea. I heard
Chief Pascale say she was going up to Chelsea Piers, we
were going to try and re-establish up there, you know,
do a count and try to run the operation.
When I went to that other building, I lost
most of those people, except for Cahill, and then when
they told us to evacuate that building, I just had to
get out of there. My thoughts were that I needed to
get home, get my wife from midtown and just get home
for my daughter.
I got onto West Street and met up with
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Captain Stone, Greg Brady from Division 1. I found
Chief Hirth and Grace Cacciola and they said we're all
going up to Chelsea, let's go re-establish our command
up there, again, not knowing where anybody else was.
You see the plumes of smoke, the dust cloud that was
coming down, but we just really wanted to find a safe
place for that. Probably about ten blocks up West
Street you heard the jets flying overhead, so lots of
thoughts running through people's heads, what's
happening to us here?
Q. What kind of jets?
A. Military jets.
Q. Military jets?
A. Yes.
Q. This is –
A. This is right after the second collapse.
Q. After the second collapse?
A. Well, if I say 15 minutes from the time we
got to that school building and started walking towards
Chelsea, maybe ten, 15 minutes had passed by the time
that –
Q. Half an hour?
A. Again, I do apologize for that.
Q. No, everybody has that problem.
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A. Time wasn't –
Q. There's no perception of time.
A. It's still very surreal. There I was talking
to Chief Ganci and relaying that the building is going
to come down and then it came down on us. It's very
bothersome.
We hitched a ride with a police van up to the
Chelsea Piers. Chief Kowalczyk was there, Chief
Pascale, a slew of ambulances. There had to be 50 non
city ambulances up there from everywhere. I saw
Captain Boyle there. I met up with Captain Pinkus.
Captain Stone, myself, Brady, Chief Hirth and Grace
went into the -- there was some restaurant on the edge
of the Chelsea Pier area, you know, to try and clean up
a little bit, use the rest room, which I needed to do a
while ago. I met up with a lot of my counterparts from
the Secret Service because that's where their fallback
was becoming. All their agents from the building were
in there.
Mark Stone said he felt his shoulder was hurt
and Chief Hirth was looking to get out of there to go
someplace else. He wanted to check -- I honestly don't
know what was going through his head. He said I need
to go away from here, I need to go get a car, I need to
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R. ZARRILLO
go to the division or a hospital. Whatever the case
may have been, they took Captain Stone to Bellevue to
be treated. He was treated and released.
Chief Pascale and Chief Kowalczyk were
establishing their command, and doing this for -- you
know, between chiefs and what I do now, I fell into
that command structure to say, okay, I'm here, let me
help you with this, and I handled staging and some
other logistical issues with them for about two or
three hours, and then I made my way back down to the
command post. Probably within an hour of us getting up
to Chelsea, Chief Kowalczyk said to me that John is
okay, he heard him on the radio, and that he was going
down to the command post that's been re-established to
either help out or take over from him.
Then, like I said, a few hours later,
Lieutenant Nevins and I made our way down south back to
Chambers Street where the other command post had been
established. That's really about it.
MR. CASTORINA: I think you've covered
virtually everything. The time now is 1202. The
concludes the interview.