9/11 conspiracy theorists multiply

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9/11 conspiracy theorists multiply

Postby NewKid » Sun Sep 10, 2006 4:03 pm

<br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14723997/from/ET/" target="top">www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14723997/from/ET/</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: 9/11 conspiracy theorists multiply

Postby Attack Ships on Fire » Sun Sep 10, 2006 4:55 pm

I wasn't there on 9/11. I saw what happened on television. I have also listened to the many different alternative theories as to what really happened on 9/11. I still don't know for sure what really did happen on that day.<br><br>However, the questions that I have, and that have come from reading and watching alternative 9/11 viewpoints, haven't been answered yet.<br><br>This MSNBC news story is a nasty piece of work masquerading as investigative journalism into the alternative 9/11 theories. Using strongly slanted phrases and words, the author is quickly able to paint a picture that people that imagine the possibility of anything other than the official government explanation are paranoid and crazy.<br><br>-- A cohesive, widely dispersed group of alternative 9/11 truth seekers are referred to as "loose agglomeration". Loose agglomerations don't conduct conventions. A better example of a loose agglomeration would be, oh, how about a small handful of elected leaders and military brass that rely entirely on a small handful of scrambled jets to protect their entire country on the morning of the greatest attack its populace has even seen take place on home soil. How about that analogy?<br><br>-- In the introductory paragraph explaining Morgan O. Reynolds, the author lets us know right off the bat how anti-Bush Reynolds is, but the reporter never bothered to mention what political thoughts the other individuals named in his report are.<br><br>-- "They are cantankerous and sometimes distrust each other -- who knows where the double agents lurk?" Further mention of counter 9/11 researchers being paranoid. Aren't most politicians cantankerous and sometimes distrustful of each other too?<br><br>-- After illustrating the example that Bush was warned of a possible attack as early as Aug. 6/01, the author then states "So give the truth movement, many of whom are based in New York City, their props. They may be paranoid, but something nasty came our way." Thanks for tossing the dog a bone, but at the same time, the way the author phrases their words leads the reader along the path that the "truth movement" is more often wrong than right...even though they got this one right. False praise indeed.<br><br>-- "Let's put aside the could-anyone-do-something-that-spectacularly-twisted? question and touch on practicalities." No, let's stick to the facts. The author had just mentioned a report that the collpase of the WTC buildings was just short of freefall...so why not dive into the so-called impossibility of that? Why skip over it and jump right into "Gee, the kind of evil that could pull such a thing off is so black, how could it ever have happened?"<br><br>Did average German citizens conscripted into soldier duty man and guard concentration camps during World War II?<br><br>Who carried out the execution of up to 60 million people in Mao's China, or in Stalin's Russia, or in Pol Pot's Cambodia, or in Rwanda, or in East Timor, and so on? It sure wasn't their leaders, they were too busy making these orders.<br><br>Fact: the blackest evil can be conducted by the average citizen...that's how it happens. There's no mystery behind it. We are all capable of it. Asking questions and keeping your mind open to alternative possibilities is one way to guard against it.<br><br>-- "What of incompetence? Or the raw absurdity of life?" Yes, let's speak of incompetence. You want an example of a real life conspiracy that took place right under our noses? Fact: the US government said that there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. High ranking officials of the Bush administration said that they had proof, had locations and knew for a certainty where these WMDs were. And here we are, 3 years later we invaded that country, without one shred of proof, without the government being held accountable for their supposed intelligence. If the all-powerful resources of the CIA can be incorrect about WMDs in Iraq, then why can't they be incorrect about what really happened on 9/11? Why should be arbitrarily assign unwavering loyalty to unseen individuals without questioning the demonstrative evidence, or lack of evidence?<br><br>This is how fascism rose to power in Germany. This is how Stalin held absolute power over Russia. It is happening right now and in tiny incremental steps forward....positioning of words in an article, the lack of follow-up reporting on irregularities in the official reports, introducing an air of distrust into all who may question the official story.<br><br>There are enough questions to be asked about what happened on 9/11, the lead up to the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, the Bush family's connections to big business, oil and the bin Laden's, possible conflicts of interest that we could be busy for the next 20 years writing books, making movies and producing news programs about it. But right now, the lack of real evidence about <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>what really is going on</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> and the <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>growing body of questions</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> is starting to turn the signal into noise.<br><br>Articles like this that don't get to the major questions that underly what happened in New York City on 9/11 do a disservice to people like me who just want them answered satisfactorly and without being insulted or labeled a crackpot. People like me don't see it being a problem asking our elected officials a question because, after all, they are supposed to be held responsible to those that put them into power. We want an open dialogue to happen on the fifth anniversary of 9/11 to address these questions and have sufficient explanations to them instead of being subjected to an unending stream of pseudo-documentaries about those that got out with their lives on 9/11 (and those that didn't), watching them and trying to ignore the creepy feeling that you're a voyeur slowing down at the scene of an accident to look at the sight of blood on the road.<br><br>And we certainly don't need this kind of article's slanted journalism shoved in our faces for just having the stones to ask questions about it.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: 9/11 conspiracy theorists multiply

Postby Qutb » Sun Sep 10, 2006 5:19 pm

I dunno, these days the person I find myself agreeing the most with on the subject of conspiracy theorizing is Chip Berlet... I'm expecting a call from Langley any day now :-)<br><br>Interesting choice of words on the part of David Ray:<br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"That's our worry, of course," Griffin says. "I want my life back. But how can I ignore that <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>we have become entranced by demonic power</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->, so focused on lust for wealth and control that almost anything becomes possible?"</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>It's hard to ignore the Truth Movement's roots in America's religious traditions. It's like listening to someone going on about a diabolical plot by the king of England in 17th-century Massachussets. Even the use of the word "Truth" carries religious connotations (like that of the gospels, the "Truth" of the Truthers is a <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>revealed</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> truth). The renouncement of worldly powers as Satanic is nothing but good old Calvinist doctrine, and their approach to science resembles that of the creationists.<br><br>However, if I've understood Jeff's writings correctly, he would probably nod at Griffin's comment? <p></p><i></i>
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Re: 9/11 conspiracy theorists multiply

Postby yesferatu » Sun Sep 10, 2006 5:22 pm

There is a blitzkrieg of articles like this now. They may mention David Ray Griffin, but from there it devolves into the absurdist elements, and of course, the reporter writes with the scoffing tone required for his story to see its way to print.<br>Another thing you will start hearing a lot of: "So there are 75 academics in this movement. There are over 76,000 academics in the country! Insignificant minority!" <br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: 9/11 conspiracy theorists multiply

Postby NewKid » Sun Sep 10, 2006 6:05 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Interesting choice of words on the part of David Ray: <br><br>"That's our worry, of course," Griffin says. "I want my life back. But how can I ignore that we have become entranced by demonic power, so focused on lust for wealth and control that almost anything becomes possible?"<br><br>It's hard to ignore the Truth Movement's roots in America's religious traditions. It's like listening to someone going on about a diabolical plot by the king of England in 17th-century Massachussets. Even the use of the word "Truth" carries religious connotations (like that of the gospels, the "Truth" of the Truthers is a revealed truth). The renouncement of worldly powers as Satanic is nothing but good old Calvinist doctrine, and their approach to science resembles that of the creationists.<br><br>However, if I've understood Jeff's writings correctly, he would probably nod at Griffin's comment? <hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>That's a very interesting comment. Someone could write a book about it. <br><br>Yes, the 9-11 truth movement has a very evangelical quality to it, although I don't think it's really that similar to fundamentalists (and I think that's the least interesting part about the comment). And obviously Griffin is not using the term "demonic" in the same sense that John Hagee would (but is he in the same sense Jeff would?). <br><br>So while I think your conclusions totally miss the mark, exploring the use of the terms "demonic" "satanic" and such in varying contexts (it would be very interesting to hear D.R. Griffin's take on this blog's high weirdness postings) is something I'd like to see a lot more of.<br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=newkid@rigorousintuition>NewKid</A> at: 9/10/06 4:06 pm<br></i>
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Re: 9/11 conspiracy theorists multiply

Postby FourthBase » Sun Sep 10, 2006 6:10 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I dunno, these days the person I find myself agreeing the most with on the subject of conspiracy theorizing is Chip Berlet... I'm expecting a call from Langley any day now :-)<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>So just to get this straight, Qutb:<br>You don't think there was a 9/11 conspiracy?<br>Correct? <p></p><i></i>
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hopsicker hits hard - ouch.

Postby pox americanus » Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:08 pm

The 911 Heroin Connection<br>The Biggest Censored Story of the 21st Century<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.madcowprod.com/index.htm">www.madcowprod.com/index.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>Hopsicker, oh danny boy, we never really knew ya...<br><br>His investagative work has been top notch and an entertaining read to boot, but man what a hatchet job. I don't quite know what to think of this. He lumps all of the "truthers" into the ufo/cult/alien locust camp. That being said, though it seem merciless, vile or unfair, it is a valid criticism. <br><br>These are the same "liabilites" in the alternative 911 narratives, that Jeff repeatedly refers to in his posts, and they are deadly. Hopsickers article is a great example, A "how to". <br><br>"See how easy that was? ..after reading that article it is so very clear. I, as a non believer of the official narrative, am apparently, a radical fundie christian who subscribes to the belief that it's the alien locust wars that really make the world go round.."<br><br>The Poison pill (c.d./holograms/pods etc...) with no effort but that of invoking the age old tactic/phallacy of guilt by association will, with certainty, destroy any hopes of convening not another "panel investigation" but a Tribunal, (perhaps comprising representatives of judicial, legislative, and perhaps even courts martial) with the power to subpoena, detain, and sentence. "Think Nuremberg" (wouldn't that make a nice t-shirt?). This is about Treason and Mass murder. When we are finished with em, then we send en to the Hague. <br><br>I think it is important to not lose sight of a goal. The goal is not spreading "Truth". The goal is corporeal, not sophic. Yeah you have to inform the public of "certain facts" they may be unaware of. (i will refrain from the litany of which y'all are probably better versed than I) In so doing we may create a political culture (as in vote vote vote) in which steps may be taken towards the goal. <br><br>but anyway...<br><br>So, what's up with Hopsicker? I feel like i just got Kicked in the softies or something...<br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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"Truth"

Postby FourthBase » Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:11 pm

It should be a "9/11 <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>facts</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->" movement that leads us.<br>This "truth" shit is for the birds. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: "Truth"

Postby isachar » Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:19 pm

FB, agreed! People's search for truth almost always leads to disaster and/or subjugation/manipulation of the individual to/by a leader/cult/dogma.<br><br>Facts are what's needed in this case. 'Truth' is always in the eye of the beholder. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: hopsicker hits hard - ouch.

Postby isachar » Mon Sep 11, 2006 2:46 pm

Hopsicker has done some excellent work, and he's probably the only one who has pursued the Florida, Venice flight schools, drug-smuggling angles of 911. These are critically important as they reveal the involvement of elements of the CIA and other 'law enforcement' entities, as well as Atta's likely role as a CIA operative.<br><br>He's justifiably po'd about the focus/hijacking of some in the 911 'truth' movement who fell for the pod/missle/mini-nuke no-planes disinfo package/garbage.<br><br>He's justifiably po'd about Ruppert too, who's personal history and shortcomings make him an easy target.<br><br>I take strong exception to his dismissing Prof. Jone's work by tagging him with the tarbaby of his Mormon beliefs. Believe me, I think the Mormon religion and its pseudo-history is a fairy tale (though its just another version of the Christic fairy tale that is widely accepted by thousands of Christian and Catholic scholars/scientists), But I don't throw out on its face anything a Mormon, Christian or Catholic scientist or researcher has to say in fields in which they specialize and hold advanced degrees.<br><br>The fact that Jones' own University is now going after him tells me that he's revealed some very inconvenient info. A reading of the most recent version of his paper confirms that he's pinned the tail on the donkey of the phony NIST report.<br><br>Hopsicker is way out of line on what can only be described as his sour-grapes dismissal of Jones' work.<br><br>It leads me to be somewhat suspicious of Hopsicker too, and some of his earlier work that I've read has been questionable too. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=isachar>isachar</A> at: 9/11/06 6:54 pm<br></i>
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Re: "Truth"

Postby pox americanus » Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:05 pm

when staging the greatest heist in history, firstly, the "reasonable" conspirator would kill the accountants...and their "records"<br><br>with all respects...(sorry for length of post but that's sort of the point)<br><br>Mr. Robert J. Hymel<br>13 August 1946 - 11 September 2001<br><br>Mr. Robert Hymel was one of seven DIA employees killed in the September 11 2001 terrorist attack on the Pentagon. Another seven employees were injured in the attack. Mr. Robert Hymel served as a Senior Management Officer in the Office of the Comptroller, Deputy Comptroller for Force Structure and Management. Mr. Hymel began his civilian career with DIA on March 7, 1994 after retiring from the Air Force with over 23 years of active duty service. Mr. Hymel was responsible for DIA joint manpower issues that focused on military Human Intelligence (HUMINT) management and organization. Mr. Hymel is survived by his wife, Pat Hymel and daughter, Natalie Connors.<br><br>Ms. Shelley A. Marshall<br>16 November 1963 - 11 September 2001<br><br>Ms. Shelley Marshall was one of seven DIA employees killed in the September 11 2001 terrorist attack on the Pentagon. Another seven employees were injured in the attack. Ms. Shelley Marshall served as a Senior Management Officer in the Office of the Comptroller, Deputy Comptroller for Force Structure and Management. Ms. Marshall began her civilian career with DIA on June 6, 1987. Ms. Marshall was responsible for budget formulation, budget execution, and preparing agency budget plans. Ms. Marshall is survived by husband, Donn E. Marshall, and two children, Drake and Chandler.<br><br>Ms. Sandra N. Foster<br>10 June 1960 - 11 September 2001<br><br>Ms. Sandra Foster was one of seven DIA employees killed in the September 11 2001 terrorist attack on the Pentagon. Another seven employees were injured in the attack. Ms. Sandra Foster served as a Senior Management Officer in the Office of the Comptroller, Deputy Comptroller for Force Structure and Management. Ms. Foster began her civilian career with DIA on Aug. 27, 1978. Ms. Foster was responsible for conducting analysis and evaluations of the manpower and functional implications of plans and programs, developing and executing complex resource management activities. Ms. Foster is survived by husband, Kenneth Foster.<br><br>Ms. Patricia A. Mickley<br>15 October 1959 - 11 September 2001<br><br>Ms. Patricia Mickley was one of seven DIA employees killed in the September 11 2001 terrorist attack on the Pentagon. Another seven employees were injured in the attack. Ms. Patricia Mickley served as a Senior Financial Resources Manager in the Office of the Comptroller, Deputy Comptroller for Program and Budget. Ms. Foster began her civilian career with DIA on Aug. 2, 1998 after working as a Budget Analyst for the Department of the Air Force since 1980. Ms. Mickley was responsible for the development, presentation, and execution of detailed budget estimates with a primary focus on infrastructure financial management and program/budget interaction process. Ms. Mickley is survived by husband, Joseph R. Mickley, and daughter, Marie.<br><br>Mr. Charles E. Sabin<br>31 July 1947 - 11 September 2001<br><br>Mr. Charles Sabin was one of seven DIA employees killed in the September 11 2001 terrorist attack on the Pentagon. Another seven employees were injured in the attack. Mr. Charles Sabin was a Senior Financial Resources Expert in DIA's Comptroller's Office. Mr. Sabin started his career with DIA in Aug. 1981 as an Accountant in the Financial Policy and Accounting Division, Comptroller. He was selected as a Defense Intelligence Senior Level (DISL) in August 1999. Prior to arriving at DIA he served several years at the Department of the Army; he served for 31 years in federal service. Mr. Sabin is survived by two sons, Charles E. Sabin, Jr. and Paul Sabin.<br><br>Ms. Rosa M. Chapa<br>6 April 1938 - 11 September 2001<br><br>Ms. Rosa Chapa was one of seven DIA employees killed in the September 11 2001 terrorist attack on the Pentagon. Another seven employees were injured in the attack. Ms. Rosa Chapa served as a Senior Management Officer in the Office of the Comptroller, Deputy Comptroller for Force Structure and Management. Ms. Chapa began her civilian career with DIA on Nov. 23, 1997 and served with the Federal government for over 30 years. Ms. Chapa was responsible for ensuring that critical manpower information flowed smoothly from the Force Structure Evaluation System (FORCES) into the position management module of PeopleSoft. Ms. Chapa is survived by husband, Jose Chapa, and children, Roger, John, Elza Gracie, and Julie.<br><br>Mr. Karl W. Teepe<br>24 September 1943 - 11 September 2001<br><br>Mr. Karl Teepe was one of seven DIA employees killed in the September 11 2001 terrorist attack on the Pentagon. Another seven employees were injured in the attack. Mr. Karl Teepe served as a Senior Financial Resources Manager in the Office of the Comptroller, Deputy Comptroller for Program and Budget. Mr. Karl Teepe began his civilian career with DIA on Sep. 3, 1991 after retiring from the Army with over 20 years of active duty service. Mr. Teepe was responsible for the development of the General Defense Intelligence Program (GDIP) build. Mr. Teepe is survived by wife, Donna, and children, Adam and Wendy.<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.dia.mil/history/patriots/biographies.html">www.dia.mil/history/patri...phies.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>Samantha Lightbourn Allen<br> Mrs. Allen was working as an Army budget analyst on the south side of the Pentagon when American Airlines Flight 77 was flown into the building. She was a devoted public servant who had worked for the Army for many years. <br> She was also the mother of a son and a daughter. She gave her life for her country. Her family and friends and colleagues miss her. <br> We will not forget her.<br><br>Carrie Blagburn<br> Carrie Blagburn, 48, was a civilian budget analyst for the United States Army and worked in the Pentagon. Her husband, Leo, treasures the memories of their 23 years together- memories of trips, outings to dance clubs, church visits, the births and weddings of their children, the loving care Ms. Blagburn gave to their grandchildren. Among her survivors are their youngest daughter, Deanna, 16, and their son DeAndre, 22, a soldier who was in Saudi Arabia on a temporary assignment on Sept. 11.<br> We will not forget her.<br><br> Donna Marie Bowen<br> Ms. Bowen, 42, an employee of Verizon, had worked on contract in an Army budgeting office of the Pentagon for the last four years of a 23-year career with Verizon. <br> Born in Omaha, she grew up in Massachusetts and was a fan of the Boston Red Sox. She was the mother of Alexandra, 10, Eugene Jr., 8, and Anastasia, 6, and stepmother to Courtney, 19, and Erika, 21. For four years she was the leader of a Girl Scout troop. On Sundays, she taught catechism at Our Lady Help of Christians Catholic Church, which the family attended. Every Wednesday, she left work early to volunteer in her children's classrooms at Berry Elementary School in Waldorf. "She was totally family-oriented," said her husband, Eugene Bowen, Sr. <br> We will not forget her.<br><br>Angelene Carter<br> Angelene, a much loved and respected wife, mother, family member, co-worker, and friend, has left behind a strong legacy. Angelene is survived by her loving husband Fred A. Carter; her mother Leona D. Cash; two daughters, Angenette Cash and Freddye Jean Carter; three stepdaughters, Venus Scott, Victoria Carter, and Cheryl Carter; two sisters, Linda C. Reid and Deloise C. Thorne; and two brothers, Claude and Donnie Cash. She is predeceased by her father, James William Cash, a sister, Shirley T. Johnson, and a brother, James William Cash Jr.<br> Angelene was an "ordinary" person whose God-given vision and mission was to accomplish "extraordinary" goals in life. Her philosophy on life was validated every day by her quiet character and conduct, by insuring that her work assignments and performance supported the level of services and expectations of her superiors and professional peers. She exhibited outstanding strength and leadership, which served as an example to her family, co-workers, church, and friends.<br> Among the strong attributes that Angelene demonstrated were patience and prudence, advocacy for teamwork, and of utmost importance, a ministry of encouragement built around great subjects such as God's sovereignty, power, compassion, and forgiveness. After a full day of regimentation, she would conclude the day with a personal Bible meditation and reflection period followed by prayer. She was a valued member of the St. Paul Baptist Church of Capital Heights, Maryland, where she was a member of the Adult Usher Board and various Bible Study Groups.<br> Angelene moved steadfastly and cautiously to provide a positive and clearly defined work and family structure. She was a very focused and results-oriented person whose plan of action included responding in an exemplary fashion to whatever she was asked to do, and paying strict attention to operational details.<br> Angelene was also a dedicated servant of her nation. She gave twenty-six years of devoted government service, the last eight years in the Pentagon where she was a staff accountant for the Department of the Army. She loved her job and the people with whom she worked.<br> Angelene was an active and creative explorer, independent, self-confident, and an inquisitive learner. She was truly a loving gift of God, and will be missed by everyone who had the pleasure and honor to know her.<br><br>Sharon Ann Carver<br> Sharon Ann Carver, 38, was an accountant for the Department of the Army from 1991 to 2001. She received her Bachelor’s Degree in Business Administration from the University of the District of Columbia and her MBA from Strayer University. She served the federal government for 16 years.<br> Born the sixth of seven children, Sharon was raised in the Washington, D.C. area by her mother, who nicknamed her "Little Emma," after her grandmother. She often volunteered to go on school field trips and attend Girl Scout meetings with her nieces. She was always motivating her nieces and nephews to pursue higher education. She enjoyed traveling, watching movies, and jazz.<br> She was baptized on Easter Sunday, 1996, at Free Gospel Deliverance Church in Coral Hills, MD. She was industrious and took great pride in doing her job well. She loved her country and was very patriotic.<br> We will not forget her.<br><br><br>Ada Marie Davis<br> Ada Marie Davis, 57, worked as an accountant for the government for 31 years. She served at the Pentagon under the Secretary of the Army, Resource Management, for over six years and put off retirement twice to ensure that her successor was prepared for the job.<br> As the oldest of ten children, she helped her mother and father raise her younger brothers and sisters. Her creativity, patience, strong will, determination, love and vigor for life left its mark on everyone she encountered. She was a wife, a friend, a patriot, a leader, a godmother, a grandmother and a mother.<br> Survivors include her husband, Nolton Jr.; four children, Zenovia, Yolanda, Rosslyn and Christopher; three sisters and three brothers.<br> We will not foreget her<br><br><br><br>Cortez Ghee<br> Cortez Ghee was a budget analyst for the Department of the Army.<br> He attended Montgomery, Prince George’s and Cantonsville colleges. Prior to his job with the Army, he worked with the Maryland Air National Guard, the Department of Health and Human Services in Baltimore, MD., the General Services Administration in Washington, D.C., and served a tour with the U.S. Air Force.<br> His favorite sport was football. He loved photography, music, reading, playing chess, stamp collecting and traveling. He was a devoted husband to his wife of 22 years, and he was a loving son, brother, uncle and friend.<br> We will not forget him.<br><br>Brenda Colbert Gibson<br> Brenda Colbert Gibson, 59, was a budget analyst for Resource Services Washington in the office of the administrative assistant to the Secretary of the Army.<br> She held positions in several different agencies during more than thirty years of service in the federal government. She was a loyal employee and a woman of integrity. Friends throughout the Pentagon remarked about her cordial greeting and pleasant smile. She enjoyed comic books, cartoons, jellybeans and sports. She was the ultimate Redskins fan. <br> Survivors include her husband, Joseph M. Gibson, III, her son Eric, her parents, Florence and LaBrent Colbert, and four sisters.<br> We will not forget her. <br><br>Carolyn Halmon<br> Carolyn Halmon, 49, worked as a budget analyst for the U.S. Army at the Pentagon. <br> Herman, 49, her husband of nearly 30 years, said she was "a churchgoing person." She was dedicated to her charity work at the National Church of God in Fort Washington, and she loved gardening at their Washington home. The couple were looking forward to retiring in Hilton Head, S.C., where they had bought a condominium.<br> Survivors include her son Stan and daughter Alisha.<br> We will not forget her<br><br>Jimmy Ira Holley<br> Jimmy Holley, 54, worked as an accountant at the Pentagon.<br> He was educated at J. D. Thompson High School in Alexandria City, AL., and earned a degree in accounting at Montgomery College in Maryland. He retired from the U.S. Army after 15 years of service.<br> Survivors include his wife Martha Jackson Holley; his children Kelly and Daniel; three sisters and six brothers. <br> We will not forget him.<br><br>Peggie Hurt<br> Peggie Hurt, 36, worked as an accountant in the Pentagon for the U.S. Army. She had been on the job only two weeks.<br> She graduated with honors from Virginia State University, then worked for the government and the National Guard.<br> "She was definitely a people person," said her cousin, Delores Hardy. She was a member, along with cousins and other relatives, of the Hurt Family gospel singing group. Her favorite song was "The Battle Is Not Yours, It’s the Lord’s." With her voice, said her cousin, she could always lead.<br> We will not forget her.<br><br>Bryan Creed Jack<br> Dr. Bryan Creed Jack, 48, was director of the programming and fiscal economics division in the Office of Program Analysis and Evaluation in the U.S. Department of Defense. He was responsible for designing and maintaining the Future Years Defense Program and developing the fiscal guidance by which the Secretary of Defense allocates funding to the military and defense agencies.<br> A former National Merit Scholar and Presidential Scholar from Texas, he graduated from the California Institute of Technology and studied in Japan as a Henry Luce Scholar. He later earned an MBA at Stanford University and a doctorate in economics from the University of Maryland. In 2000, he was appointed adjunct professor of economics at George Washington University.<br> He joined the Defense Department as an analyst in 1978 and was twice awarded the Defense Exceptional Service Medal, in 1998 and 2000.<br> We will not forget him.<br><br>Brenda Kegler<br> Brenda Kegler, 49, worked in the Pentagon as a budget analyst for the U.S. Army.<br> She had worked in the Pentagon for 30 years. Her husband, Bing, said she loved her job and enjoyed the company of her coworkers so much that even after he retired and moved to Florida, she stayed on at her job and Washington, D.C., home. "We were talking about her retiring and moving down to Florida with me," said Mr. Kegler, 63. "She was younger and loved her job, so it was harder for her to retire. But we were making plans. She was excited about us being together again, and so was I."<br> Survivors include two daughters.<br> We will not forget her.<br><br>David Laychak<br> David Laychak, 40, was chief of the budget execution branch for the administrative assistant to the Secretary of the U.S. Army.<br> He graduated from Brown University and went to work for the Army. After attending the Army Comptroller Program and earning an MBA from Syracuse University, he became a budget analyst for the Army Signal Command at Fort Huachuca, Ariz. In 2000, he accepted the position of chief of the budget execution branch. He was selected for the Defense Leadership and Management Program.<br> He loved traveling and spending time with his family, taking nature walks and coaching kids. He also enjoyed sports, his friends, his country and his church. He believed in the fundamental values for which America stands.<br> Survivors include his wife Laurie and children Zachary and Jennifer.<br> We will not forget him.<br><br>Ada Wilson Mason<br> Ada Wilson Mason was a budget analyst for the U.S. Army.<br> She graduated from Jackson State University in 1973 and worked in banking until she began her career with the U.S. government in 1980.<br> She was strong-willed and analytical. As a member of Alfred Street Baptist Church in Alexandria, Va., she sang in the choir and worked in the youth ministry and student tutorial ministry. Her Christian beliefs gave her strength. Her favorite flower was the lily, the symbol of grace and eternal life.<br> Survivors include her husband, Sherman L. Acker, Jr.; daughter Shannon; son Shaun; stepson Matthew Acker; three sisters and a brother; and her mother, Sareatha Wilson.<br> We will not forget her.<br><br>Robert Maxwell<br> Robert Maxwell, 56, worked at the Pentagon as a civilian budget analyst for the U.S. Army.<br> He liked shrimp Creole and listening to Janis Joplin. His wife, Karen Greenberg, remembers how he brought stuffed Asian duck feet when she first invited him home to meet her father. "It took some thought,” she said. “Anybody can bring flowers." She said he always gave her two cards for romantic occasions, "one ridiculous, one sincere."<br> Survivors include his wife and stepson, Tanner.<br> We will not forget him.<br><br>Molly L. McKenzie<br> Molly L. McKenzie, 38, was a civilian budget analyst for the U.S. Army.<br> She earned a B.S. degree from Mount Vernon Nazarene College and worked for the Army for 14 years. Her daughters Lea, 13, and Alana, 10, wrote that she "would do anything for us. She would take us places like shopping, the movies and places to eat. She loved to draw and read books. She liked to read the Bible. She liked to run and sometimes we ran with her. If we had a problem, she would always help us. She was not only our mother, she was our friend."<br> Survivors include her daughters; mother Elizabeth Hornberger; brothers Larry and Kenny; sisters Sally Wetzel and Judy Yake; and her former husband, Shane McKenzie.<br> We will not forget her.<br><br>Odessa V. Morris<br> Odessa V. Morris, 54, worked as a budget analyst in the Pentagon for the U.S. Army.<br> She attended Chesapeake Business College and worked for the federal government for 32 years. She gave of herself freely and volunteered as a financial counselor to others. She was treasurer and a member of the board of trustees of the New Mt. Olivet Apostolic Church. She loved cooking, sewing, photography and raising goats.<br> Survivors include her husband Tony; children Dahlia, Jan-Sheri and Keith; brothers Winford, Daniel and Joseph; and sisters Ethel and Rachel.<br> We will not forget her.<br><br>Diana B. Padro<br> Diana B. Padro worked in the Pentagon as an accountant for the office of the Secretary of the U.S. Army.<br> She earned a B.A. degree from Interamerican University of Puerto Rico. She joined the U.S Army and was stationed at Fort Hood, TX. After leaving the Army in 1982 she stayed involved with military life. She worked briefly for the National Guard. She loved her job and traveled often. Every time she visited a city, state or country, she brought home a magnet for her refrigerator door. At her office, she had a wall of similar items that friends brought from trips. She was an outgoing woman who immersed everyone in her laughter and energy.<br> Survivors include her husband Jose and sons José Javier and Juan Carlos.<br> We will not forget her.<br><br>Clifford L. Patterson, Jr.<br> U.S. Army Maj. Clifford L. Patterson, Jr., worked in the Pentagon as budget officer for the Resource Management division.<br> He was a Distinguished Military Graduate from Howard University in 1991 and was commissioned as a second lieutenant in the infantry. His assignments included Bradley platoon leader, Scout platoon leader and company executive officer for 1st Battalion, 9th Cavalry, and Battalion S-4 for 1st Battalion, 502nd Infantry; commander, Charlie and Headquarters companies, 1-502nd Infantry Regiment, Fort Campbell, KY. His awards include the Meritorious Service Medal, Army Staff Badge, Army Commendation Medal, Army Achievement Medal with two Oak Leaf Clusters, Southwest Asia Service Medal, National Defense Service Medal, Expert Infantryman Badge, Pathfinder Badge and Parachutist and Air Assault badges.<br> Survivors include his wife, Capt. (P) Tarnatha Patterson, and sons Clifford and Benjamin.<br> We will not forget him.<br><br>Rhonda Sue Ridge Rasmussen<br> Rhonda Sue Ridge Rasmussen, 44, worked in the Pentagon as a budget analyst for the U.S. Army.<br> She and her husband Floyd, who also worked for the Army in the Pentagon but was able to evacuate safely, traveled the world during their combined 51 years of service. She particularly enjoyed their three stints in Germany, but her favorite place, said her husband, "was wherever she happened to be with me and me with her." He said she was "big of heart, big smile, willing to listen, laugh at you, put you at ease."<br> Survivors include her husband; children Nathan, Jeremiah, Thaddaus and Rebekkah; stepchildren Michael, Lisa and Shawn; her mother and three brothers.<br> We will not forget her.<br><br>Martha Reszke<br> Martha Reszke, 56, worked for the U.S. Army budget office in the Pentagon.<br> She was dedicated to her job, where she had worked for eight years, and she was a dedicated mother, wife and friend. To “everyone who came into her life, she gave,” said her husband Jim. “She was genuinely kind, honest.” Her home featured a series of plant and flower beds bordered by a brick wall. “She was everybody’s gardener,” he added. “Her therapy after work was (her) garden. She told you how it should be, and you did it. She was the designer. I was the digger.”<br> We will not forget her.<br><br>Cecelia E. Richard<br> Cecelia E. Richard, 41, worked in the Pentagon as an accounting technician for the U.S. Army. She had worked for the Defense department since graduating from high school. <br> She spent her free time listening to jazz, going on family trips and attending church. Her husband Michael said she "was always considerate of her family." She also had a passion for the Washington Redskins football team and her pet Labrador.<br> Survivors include her husband, three sisters and three brothers, and her mother Mazie. <br> We will not forget her.<br><br>Edward Veld Rowenhorst<br> Edward Rowenhorst, 32, worked as a civilian accountant for the U.S. Army in the Pentagon. <br> He graduated from George Mason University in 1992 and went to work at the Pentagon, where he had interned while in college. He loved to take his daughter Ashley, 7, to his office, whether it was for Take Our Daughters to Work Day or just to give his wife a break at home. "Everyone in the office enjoyed kids," said his wife, Traci. "They were just a big family there." <br> Survivors include his wife and daughters Ashley and Kaitlyn. <br> We will not forget him.<br><br>Robert E. Russell<br> Robert E. Russell, 52, worked in the Pentagon as a supervisory budget analyst. <br> He spent 23 years in the U.S. Army, serving two tours in Germany, one in Korea and one in Belgium. After retiring from active duty in 1993, he worked as a civilian budget analyst. He had a calm, analytical personality. He was a source of comfort and counsel to his friends and relatives, and he had great culinary skills. He was a loving and generous grandfather, father, husband, brother and friend. <br> Survivors include his wife Teresa, three grown children and his mother Mildred Fletcher. <br> We will not forget him.<br><br>Marjorie Champion Salamone<br> Marjorie C. Salamone, 53, worked at the Pentagon as a U.S. Army budget analyst. <br> She earned bachelor's and master's degrees from Auburn University. She was always happy to help others. When a neighbor's basement flooded, she found the water main and turned it off. After a freeze, she helped neighbors relight gas pilot lights. She had a quick wit, a delightful sense of humor and a deep faith in God. She was an inspiration to all who knew her. <br> Survivors include her husband of 31 years, Ben, a retired Army colonel and veterinarian; daughters Amanda and Ann Marie; and her mother, Lillian Champion.<br> We will not forget her.<br><br>Janice Marie Scott<br> Janice M. Scott, 46, worked in the Pentagon as a budget officer for Resource Services Washington.<br> She earned an associate degree from Enterprise (Ala.) State Junior College and a BS degree from the University of Maryland. In 1987 she joined the U.S. Army Personnel Command as an assistant budget officer. In 1989 she became a budget officer with Resource Services Washington and in 2001 was promoted to team leader. <br> She was a member of Blacks in Government, 5-Star Toastmasters Club, Assn. of Government Accountants and Jack and Jill of America, Inc., where she was chapter historian, program director and vice president. She was a member of Greater Little Zion Baptist Church.<br> Survivors include her husband Abraham and daughters Crystal and Angel.<br> We will not forget her.<br><br>Edna Lee Stephens<br> Edna Lee Stephens, 53, worked in the Pentagon as a budget analyst.<br> She worked for the U.S. Army and the Department of Defense for 34 years, and was taking courses at the University of the District of Columbia and at Ft. Benjamin Harrison in Indiana. She was a member of the Varick Memorial A.M.E. Zion Church. She loved her family, her church and her friends.<br> Survivors include her son, Torrass Martez Allen; her father, the Rev. Eddie Stephens; sisters Betty Hill, Brenda Pyant, Gloria Darrisaw, Mary Stephens, Eunice Holcomb and Barbara Cobb, and brothers Eddie and Marvin.<br> We will not forget her.<br><br>Sandra Letitia White<br> Sandra L. (Murray) White, 44, worked as a budget analyst in the Pentagon for the U.S. Army.<br> A graduate of Hampton Roads Business College, she worked for the Army for 15 years in budgeting and accounting. She was a lover of God’s word and a devoted Christian wife, mother and best friend.<br> Survivors include her husband of 18 years, Col. (Ret.) Oscar N. White, Jr.; sons Oscar III and Jonathan; parents Aaron and Gloria Murray; brothers Curtis and Aaron Murray, and sisters Maj. Gloria Murray and Connie Harris.<br> We will not forget her.<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.defendamerica.mil/remember/remember_a.html">www.defendamerica.mil/rem...ber_a.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>The accountants were hit hardest.<br><br>remember all those TRILLIONS, they couldn't account for? <br><br>"According to some estimates we cannot track $2.3 trillion in transactions," Rumsfeld admitted. (9/10/01)<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/01/29/eveningnews/main325985.shtml">www.cbsnews.com/stories/2...5985.shtml</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>what became of the "lost 2.3 trillion?"<br><br>trillion. wow. that' like really big huh? like uh, incomprehensible big...hows that old comparative scale/metaphor go again? <br><br>help me out, something along these lines.... if a million dollars is the length of one foot, a billion would be (?) miles, whereas a trillion would be long enough to get you to the sun and back... (?)<br> <br>also not in the news today...accrual vs cash accounting as it relates to the federal deficit...gulp. whoah. this could be bad. is that the sound of?...the dollar going pop? hopefully the assholes who lend us money keep it up or "everybody goes down with us..." <br><br>i think the "follow the money" strategy is one with real legs. boring. un-sexy. brimming with facts. out of my league. <br><br>of course i am sort of contradicting myself here (what with this list and the intended implication of intent, regardless of the means, plane/missle blah blah, the "of all the places the plane could have hit, what luck, the new wing! housing mostly civilian accountants, well thank the stars, our national security/military leadership sure could have taken a hit otherwise", oh what providence, indeed.)<br>contradictions at every turn of course. wouldn't be "good ole reality" without em i suppose.<br><br>it is not a bad thing to remember the dead. to do so is not simply being an unwitting victim of "operation mindfuck" or whatever. In fact, in a way it may help us to steel our resolve. Of course to sit in front of all the "remember" crap on TV is not the same. The best way to remember is not like this either, (posting on a message board) i think speaking to other people, in the world, you know? on a one on one basis, to discuss these things, reasonably (hard to do), rationally, fearlessly. That is remembrance. I Speak Facts Every Day. plant little seeds. I don't get embroiled in argument. mine is not to change minds. how violent. I try to change instead the information pool available. of course i only know what i have learned, that is to say, not very much but, to try. thats all.<br><br><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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