American Coup D'Etat:

[Uncle Scam]

Military thinkers discuss the unthinkable<br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.harpers.org/AmericanCoupDEtat.html">www.harpers.org/AmericanCoupDEtat.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>Welcome to my nightmare...<br>We sweat and laugh and scream here.<br> <p></p><i></i>

[stoneonstone]

Wrong question. Wrong answer.<br><br>They are batting around a hypothetical, falsly analyzing a third world style coup in America.<br><br>Instead there was a different model created - the National Security State - and successfully implimented.<br><br>They must have had a hard time keeping the giggles in. <p></p><i></i>

[chiggerbit]

I see the guy I'm always harping about is on this panel:<br><br>EDWARD N. LUTTWAK is a senior adviser at the Center for Strategic and International Studies and the author of many books, including Coup D'Etat: A Practical Handbook <p></p><i></i>

[Gouda]

Luttwak also has is nose in the Italian CIA/SISMI Abu Omar rendition case related to high-level wiretapping and the "suicide" of Adamo Bove, the wiretapping techie whistleblower. And if he has his nose in the wiretapping and CIA/SISMI doings in Italy, it is likely he is not too far from Ledeen and other neo-gladio P2 machinations. <br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://p216.ezboard.com/frigorousintuitionfrm10.showMessage?topicID=5734.topic">p216.ezboard.com/frigorou...5734.topic</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>Not yet having read the harper's article, I am inclined to agree with stoneonstone's observation regarding the too 'oft missed significance of the National Security State. Not that it can't be undone or isn't undoing itself - either by us or by succumbing to something like RAW's "optimum fuckup," or both. <p></p><i></i>

[chiggerbit]

They're full of crap anyway. We had a coup when Kennedy was assassinated. With him replaced, everything else fell into place, (how do I say this?) using the existing structure of the the change of guard provided by the Constitution and by precedent. <br><br>Also, I suspect that Watergate itself may have been close to a coup. This is why I keep wondering if Agnew was set up, as the beginning of the process. They had to get rid of him to put in their person to replace him and their person to replace Nixon when they got Nixon to resign. <br><br>AND, another coup was successful when they rigged the vote-counting. AND, all three of these were performed by the same bunch. The three just weren't performed by the military. Sometimes I even wonder if they didn't try to do one on Clinton. <br><br>They're trying to keep the audience focused on the scenario of the military coup, but the military wasn't running these operations-- there may have been several military people involved, but I doubt that they were running it. <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>A coup uses the least amount of force necessary.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> If it gets bloody, it's a palace revolution. So, they've found ways to do it that aren't too noticeable. The Reich's ranting to the Christo-fascists about loading the Supreme Court probably has its roots in their need to continue their constant-coup. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=chiggerbit@rigorousintuition>chiggerbit</A> at: 8/27/06 11:46 am<br></i>

[chiggerbit]

Holy cow! Thanks, Gouda:<br><br>"...The SISMi scandal continues to unfold. Yesterday it was revealed that Pirelli employed a CIA station chief formerly stationed in Mogadiscio, John Paul Spinelli. Pirelli and Telecom are closely linked through the same ownership. It appears that employees of Pirelli and Telecom may have been involved in the Abu Omar kidnapping, along with employees of Cipriani's private security companies. Cipriani received regular payments from Telecom for tens of millions of euros through a series of societies abroad.<br><br>Excerpts of Pio Pompa's intercepted phone calls indicate frequent and friendly conversations with Edward Luttwak of the Washington based CSIS. According to reports in the Repubblica, Luttwak was kept abreast of developments and probable disinformation campaigns in the Abu Omar kidnapping case.<br><br>Edward Luttwak is a regular fixture on Italian television as some sort of expert. He spent many years of his childhood in Italy as a refugee and speaks fluent Italian.<br><br>The CSIS has always been a favoured conduit for undercover operations and disinformation campaigns in Italy as well as South America. A favourite think tank of the Reagan and the Bush père administrations, it earned its brownie points with the Billygate scandal. That scandal tipped the scales in favour of Reagan....." <p></p><i></i>

[chiggerbit]

I've been giving this some thought. Coup (plural, please?)of the past have been pretty crude affairs compared to the way they're being carried out today, unless I miss my guess. Or. maybe we should call this one big, continuous, rolling coup. So I'm thinking about a new list of coup rules. <br><br>First on The List? Perform a coup in such a way that the populace doesn't even know it happened. They came close to getting caught on JFK. Of course, this isn't the only rule, but probably the most important. So, now we need to think of the various goals, techniques, objectives, used to keep the people from knowing. First sub heading here would be: Control information, then a sub heading under that, Control the media, which is exactly what the right has been working towards ever since Reagan's era, buying up media companies, changing the anti-monopoly regulations, etc. The purpose here is to not only minimize your own bad press, but to also create bad press for the oppostiion which is why the news coverage is so bizarro. I'm guessing that the next objective, that they/ve probably already started on, is how to control the internet. <br><br>Another rule would be to get your players in place before, maybe years before, the coup begins. I'm thinking here about the Reich's big push to supposedly "Christianize" the courts, but I wonder if that's what it's really all about, or if it's much, much deeper. Also get your believers in positions in the civil service, Congress (get rid of a few annoyances, like Carnahan and Wellstone), key financial institutions, churches, and businesses. <br><br>Heck, I bet we could update Luttwak's book for him. Did you notice when Luttwak's coup book was published? In 1968, less than 5 years after Kennedy's assassintation, and how long do you suppose it took him to write it? Interesting timing. What was that infamous quote of Rove's about creating new realities? <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=chiggerbit@rigorousintuition>chiggerbit</A> at: 8/27/06 5:23 pm<br></i>

[Hugh Manatee Wins]

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr> Wrong question. Wrong answer.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Exactly. And welcome to the RI board.<br><br>Allaying fears of a Seven Days in May scenario was behind the 1962 Senate hearings on Military Cold War Education and Speech Review Policies with testimony from Jan. 23 to June 8.<br><br>This was at a time when Prescott Bush was on the Senate Armed Services Committee, a high old time indeed.<br><br>(I have the printed reports and enjoyed finding president of Chase National Bank John McCloy's admission of finding Nazi scientists in Germany to bring home, Project Paperclip announced right there in public transcripts on page 738.)<br><br>A combination of Eisenhower's 1/61 speech warning against the military-industrial complex, the Bay of Pigs disaster, and loose cannons like General Walker led to assurances that there was no danger of a Pentagon coup like the one attempted in France in 1958 plus discussions of how to better indoctrinate both the military and civilians on the risks of the Cold War. <br><br>Pentagon generals also needed assurances that the tighter control on propaganda wasn't really a threat to their First Amendment rights to criticize policies even though it really was. <br><br>The Iron Curtain of state-controlled media was being locked in place and notice was being given that "that was then but this was now so shut up" and leave everything to the CIA. <p></p><i></i>

[stoneonstone]

Thanks Hugh.<br><br>Actually been on for some time...just always forgot my login stuff whenever I had something to add.<br><br>Jeff and I have known each other for about 20 years now, and agree on many things in life. Probably most.<br><br>And for those who occassionally post or imply Jeff is an asset of somebody's...<br><br>Absolutely not. He's the real deal: an independent thinker and Canadian.<br><br>Unfortunately he's certain to be high on the list of those to be rounded up one day, when playtime is over. <p></p><i></i>

[rothbardian]

Jeff is snug as a bug in a rug...as long as he keeps promoting regime <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>change</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> as a opposed to regime <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>removal</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->.<br><br>The 'powers that be' don't care what kind of regime exists as long as there <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>is</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> a regime. That's their vehicle. Doesn't matter if it's Reagan, Nixon, Carter or Howard Dean-- you go along with their program or you'll be JFK'd.<br><br>With so many people here recognizing the System's rotten-to-the-core status, where are the Libertarians at a blogspot like this? It's baffling. <p></p><i></i>

[yesferatu]

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>They're full of crap anyway. We had a coup when Kennedy was assassinated. With him replaced, everything else fell into place, (how do I say this?) using the existing structure of the the change of guard provided by the Constitution and by precedent.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>My similar impression from their roundtable was a bunch of blowhards with the "ability" to genuinely analyze this subject at the required depths of analysis, to be seriously compromised by their unique military brainwashing that they have been defending something which does not even exist. <p></p><i></i>

[Gouda]

The Coup goes back at least to 1947 (some may argue earlier, like when The Fed was secretly planned and craftily established). <br><br>A thoughful excerpt from J. Blum's <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>The Calumet Review,</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> an "aperiodical" of politics, art & radical suggestions. (J, no relation to William.) From <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>The Calumet Review </em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->Volume Three Number One, Winter 2006: <br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr><br>"The Calumet Review's Forlorn Hope"<br><br>Our forlorn hope is that the fateful events of 1947 be reversed: that the entire National Security apparatus be dismantled, that the Department of Defense go back to being the War Department. And with them ought to go the Department of Energy, the Department of Homeland Security and all subsequent addenda to the core crimes against freedom begun with the atomic-National Security State begun with Truman. Sunset laws for all the excesses of legislation dating back to the dawn of time - well, let's not get pushy.<br><br>Nick Turse suggested that Bushco wants to turn back the clock to the days before the Magna Carta. Tim Weiner, in his book <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Blank Check</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->, compared the National Security State from Truman to Bush I to the excesses of the first Stuart kings of England in the first decades of the seventeenth century:<br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>None shall presume henceforth to meddle with<br>anything concerning our government or deep<br>matters of state.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--></em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br> Thus spoke the son and father of beheaded monarchs, James VI of Scotland and I of England. Thus also spake, in essence, Allen Dulles and Richard Helms and Colby and Casey and North and the Bushmen. "Plantagenet doth quit Plantagenet," said Shakespeare's Margaret of Anjou - so perhaps James doth quit James. I refer not to myself, but rather to Mr. Madison:<br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>A popular Government without popular information,<br>or the means of acquiring it, is but a prologue to a <br>Farce or a Tragedy; or perhaps both. </em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>We are left to wonder whether Marx's more famous quip has its origins here. "Perhaps both" seems an apt enough summation of our present political quandary. We must take some issue with Mr. Madison's next statement, I fear:<br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Knowledge will forever govern ignorance.</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>At least in terms of nominal governance, this is patently untrue: Ulysses S. Grant, Warren G. Harding, Harry S. Truman, Ronald W. Reagan and George W. Bush all attest to that. Knowledge <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>of what</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> - this remains the question. Of course, Herakleitos reminds us that the real constitution of things is accustomed to hide itself. Presidents are but the symbol of government and they need not be particularly knowledgeable about anything - including what is done in their name. When they are so knowledgeable, then they have not even the excuse of ignorance for their crimes against peace, humanity and the law of the land. (Read: Jimmy Carter.) Madison continues:<br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>And a people who mean to be their own Governors,<br>must arm themselves with the power which knowledge<br>gives.</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>It has been the intention of several generations of American governments to disarm this people.<br><br>Weiner quotes Patrick Henry, a tidbit that ought to be at least as famous as the one about Liberty and Death:<br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Patrick Henry of Virginia insisted that a free people<br>could not "allow the national wealth...to be disposed<br>of under a veil of secrecy."

[xsic bastardx]

<br> I personally think it's hilarious that no one has even presented the idea in this thread yet that 9/11 WAS a Coup De Tat......because the people who got away with it are still running the Country.<br><br> Case Closed. <p></p><i></i>

[Gouda]

Weren't they also running the country before 911? <p></p><i></i>

[xsic bastardx]

<br><br><br> That honestly I can't say for sure but the Neo-Con Pro Christian Right Wing are enjoying thier hay day right now....the only question is for how long...... <p></p><i></i>