*triggering* Research on violent/illegal porn

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*triggering* Research on violent/illegal porn

Postby biaothanatoi » Fri Jun 09, 2006 12:29 am

Came across this paper recently, very interesting for the RA debate:<br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.nordicom.gu.se/mr/iceland/papers/three/RBjornebekk.doc" target="top">Violent Pornography on the Internet: A Study of Accessibility and Prevalence</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br>In particular:<br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>While surfing on the Internet, we made contact with open and hidden servers where Nazis, racists, Satanists and drug-users market their beliefs about and motives for violent actions or enjoying illegal drugs</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>The researchers found that accessing illegal porn required the seeker to go through a series of tests - including emailing the webmaster with illegal porn of their own, alongside their name and address, thus committing the same crime as the webmaster and "proving" the seeker is not a cop.<br><br>The researchers pointed out that nobody in the mainstream can know what lies beyond that stage, because you have to commit a crime to find out. <br><br>They also found that, amongst what they could access, images of torture where the most prevalent form of violent porn - and they felt that the images were of real torture. The men usually wear "black hoods" and "the appearance of some men gives associations to the Ku Klux Klan."<br><br>The researchers were puzzled by images of mutilated/dead infants and embryos as a prevalent category of violent porn. They pointed out that "Some of the pictures are identical to those presented in magazines published by satanic groups in Norway."<br><br>One of their conclusions in particularly pertinent to the debate on ritualistic abuse:<br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>One characteristic feature of the violent pornography portrayals across categories is that most of them are presented as ”real” happenings or as documentaries. The depictions are characterised by their cruelty, extreme anti-sociality and sadism. Most of the pictures and movies portray events that are far-removed from what most people are able to think about. Presented are phenomena that exist neither in the mainstream culture nor in people’s imaginations or consciousness.</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> <br><br>What the paper suggests is that there are sexual subcultures out there whose deviancy and sadism is so profound that it is virtually "invisible" to the mainstream. We have no way of thinking of a person who masturbates to pictures of dead children, let alone a group of people who murder children for sexual pleasure. It's a natural cognitive boundary for most of us ... but what it creates is a space of impunity for sexual offenders of the worst kind. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: *triggering* Research on violent/illegal porn

Postby professorpan » Fri Jun 09, 2006 1:32 am

Interesting find, biao. <br><br>It's also available here:<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.nikk.uio.no/arrangementer/konferens/tallin03/bjornebekk_e.html">www.nikk.uio.no/arrangeme...ekk_e.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>And it's 6 years old. I wonder if there has been a followup study. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: *triggering* Research on violent/illegal porn

Postby biaothanatoi » Fri Jun 09, 2006 2:20 am

Good question, because they found significant change in the type of illegal porn within the period under study (from 1997 - 1998) eg the worst stuff was disappearing from free access but increasing sophistication in "commericial" trade. Who knows what the situation is now.<br><br>There is very little quantitative analysis of the content of illegal pornography in the public domain, which I find frustrating, because it prevents us from corroborating (or not) the alleged correlation between ritualistic abuse and child pornography. Are ritualistic overtones prevalent in child pornography? This peice of research states that the men in child porn wear "black hoods" and KKK head-dress ... well, so too do RA perps.<br><br>I'm starting to think that the RA debate is totally wrong-headed - we need to think about ritualistic activity <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>within</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> organised sexual exploitation (child porn/prostitution), but the phrase "ritual abuse" (and associated discussion) inverts that - the rituals come first, the exploitation second. No wonder we have all these pointless straw man debates about Satanism, "witch hunts", etc. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=biaothanatoi@rigorousintuition>biaothanatoi</A> at: 6/9/06 12:21 am<br></i>
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Re: *triggering* Research on violent/illegal porn

Postby Project Willow » Fri Jun 09, 2006 3:11 am

Thanks Biao, that's why I always talk about organized crime first, prostitution, porn, then bring up the cult and ritual aspects later.<br><br>I can say I get plenty of hits on my website from searches on the words "torture drawings". I don't know what that means, but I've suspected it was about voyerism. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: *triggering* Research on violent/illegal porn

Postby Sepka » Fri Jun 09, 2006 3:25 am

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>This peice of research states that the men in child porn wear "black hoods" and KKK head-dress ... well, so too do RA perps.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>That might be as much a practical consequence of hood-making as anything. A pointed hood is the easiest type to sew - it can be made from a circle or square of cloth with just one seam. <br><br>-Sepka the Space Weasel <p></p><i></i>
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Re: social and question on equasterian aspects in RA/MC

Postby havanagilla » Fri Jun 09, 2006 5:33 am

I have little to add to the experience and knowledge you guys have (biao/pw), but i wonder whether the question of conceptualizing the crime as criminal with ritual aspects or satanic with criminal aspects can also reflect social values and relative pov. For people of religious bent, the spiritual aspect will come first and for secular/progressives, it will apear first of as a social phenomenon tapping into ritual.<br>=<br>very disturbing link and discussion. <br>a little sidetrack, if anyone knows anything -<br>Is there any typical or recurring connection betwee RA/MC and equasterian hobby, horses, riding horses etc. <p></p><i></i>
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entry ticket

Postby blanc » Fri Jun 09, 2006 5:39 am

police investigating 'wonderland' offenders in uk reported that system, of requiring an entry ticket of new images. also abuse on demand - ie say what you want to happen to a given child, and watch it real time. <br><br>hava - horses - only a couple of not very definitive things - I'll mail you. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: entry ticket

Postby 4911 » Fri Jun 09, 2006 6:21 am

There are some serious fucking animals out there posing as humans. <p></p><i></i>
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RE Horses and Mind Control

Postby Quentin Quire » Fri Jun 09, 2006 7:04 am

The only link I know of in a specific case is Sirhan Sirhan's employment as a stablehand before the RFK assassination. Assuming Sirhan was involved in mind control, which is quite likely ... <p></p><i></i>
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Re: social and question on equasterian aspects in RA/MC

Postby Sepka » Fri Jun 09, 2006 7:42 am

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Is there any typical or recurring connection betwee RA/MC and equasterian hobby, horses, riding horses etc. <hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>I'd be greatly interested to know that as well, actually.<br><br>-Sepka the Space Weasel <p></p><i></i>
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Re: social and question on equasterian aspects in RA/MC

Postby havanagilla » Fri Jun 09, 2006 8:48 am

Sepka, please tell us why this is interesting, perhaps you also have a cent or two for this query.<br>--<br>Sirkhan connection is very interesting. 9didn't know that, mind you. <br><br>on edit - intuited connection between horses and sexual orientation, or changing orientations, homosexuality.<br>--<br>thing is, i don't have anything specific, as i said there were some "coincidences". but with MC victims NOTHING is random, things are preplanned, and since the only OTHER victims i know, are these two people and they were in the horse business in a sort of "out of context" way, it made me curious. Then, i heard about the heavy contacts bn VA/DoD, and this is another very red flag. Now the last bit, was this new, very bizarre fashion here in israel to send kids with emotional/nuerological problems to do therapuetic riding, and even the usually CHEAP sick funds (that the national free heatlh care) are reimbursing for that. Last, but not least, is when I crash landed here, the first gov people who tricked me into meeting them in "coincidence" were both into therapeutic horse riding and were suggesting my son starts riding. (no thanks !). And another bit was this -<br>While in the US, in Berkeley this last time, I was referred to a former Israeli attorney, quite successful and a routine counsel for various Israeli gov issues. I met with her and I intuited she was burnt somehow by the Israeli gov, and now she is kind of working with the system and building her wealth, she seemed a bit dead in the heart. anyway, she told me that her daughter, than teenager, has had some form for ADHD and that now she is "into horses" which kind of saved her life. (there was a big photo with the kid on the horse). It just didn't feel right to me. but that's just my trusting positive self.<br>--<br>I am sensing MC connection, sex, and now added are disturbed children. stables, closed places, usually out of town, military might be interested for various reasons, etc.<br>But mostly I sense that this is one of those quirks that a major MC figure might have had as a personal interest, and it became a trademark for the MC business. (did Mengele like horses ? start looking for nazis with a hangup). it would also be a good place to send sex baits, because rich/powerful people have horses and need stable workers, training people etc. its a good sexpionage connection (as golf perhaps would be too).<br><br>--<br>My own horse connectoin - I used to take wild rides with the bedouin kids who lived near by. I think this was also an opporutnity for sexual activity of the wrong kind. i ahve blackouts. I was found one day unconscious and was TOLD that my horse got into a fight with another male horse and mine just threw me and ran. don't know. Since then I didn't ride. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=havanagilla>havanagilla</A> at: 6/9/06 6:52 am<br></i>
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norwegian report

Postby blanc » Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:05 am

In UK many survivors who have made police reports of ra have been treated less than seriously. The cases I am familiar with go back over the last 20 years, with the police complaints being made mid eighties to the present time. Whilst the Met. police area has recently introduced a unit to investigate ra (non african) crime, the police as a whole seem to still be in denial. As recently as 6 months ago, the second largest force in the uk demonstrated yet again the limitations of their understanding or willingness to tackle these crimes. I was asked by a private investigator who was acting on behalf of a child to tell the appropriate division of this force what I had witnessed regarding her. I did so, though I had previous experience of trying to give them information about an ra group in their area and ending up deciding that either they were corrupt , or they had their heads firmly stuffed in the sand, and liked it that way.<br>They responded by telling the investigator that I was a fantasist. This conclusion had been reached without making any credible attempts to investigate, without asking me to undergo any psychiatric testing, without investigating my background. They had simply decided this, I can only suppose, based on the fact that what I told them was outside the experience of normal people, and therefore could not be true. (This has been a common experience for many witnesses and survivors btw)<br>Yet, strike a light, this Norwegian report describes having accessed violent pornography during 1997 and 1998 , for the purposes of the study, which displayed acts perpetrated on women and children remarkably similar to those described by myself and 3 other witnesses. <br><br>The perpetrating group, moreover, acquired substantial property which could not be explained by their legitimate activity.<br><br>Isn't it remarkable that the police force with a small population (Norway) should be so much better informed about what is going on than the UK police as a whole? <br><br>I wonder if any of us can ever expect justice.<br><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: norwegian report

Postby Dreams End » Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:23 pm

I was investigating a murder case here some time ago. Long story...it involved the sister of a childhood friend. Happily, the murderer, her husband, was just given his first guilty verdict for conspiring to murder her parents. The guy he solicited to do the job turned him in and cooperated in taping the conversations. He has not yet faced the murder charges of his wife yet.<br><br>There is no RA element to this case, but in trying to learn about it I talked with a guy who claimed to have a lot of friends in the Mafia. He worked with a friend of mine, who said that this guy really did seem to get all kinds of favors and merchandise that..you know...fell off a truck or whatever. Here's what's interesting. It's just speculation, but it kind of shows you how this stuff works when the police are compromised as they seem to be here.<br><br>Basically, this guy said that the Mafia, even here in little ole Nashville, has allies in all the various local police departments. He said he could get traffic tickets fixed in every local police department except Hendersonville, which is a little odd since that's where many country music stars live and there's some overlap there, as well, with organized crime. No idea how much.<br><br>Anyway, in looking into this, it appears that the murderer, who was working for his father-in-law's law firm, was also doing legal work for a strip club owner. In fact, his current lawyer is also a lawyer for folks in that industry. While as a moral issue, I really don't have an issue with sexuality related enterprises just like I don't think recreational drugs should be illegal, I do understand that the reality of that industry is exploitation and also a great deal of organized crime involvement. I doubt we could ever have a society where one might feel confident that, prostitutes say, were really freely choosing their profession and not forced into it, consciously or unconsciously by a history of abuse, unscrupulous pimps or economic circumstances. In any event, again, even here in Nashville, organized crime is involved in this industry, and the guy Perry March was working for (this is the murderer) seems to actually have been a front guy for a mob type in Indiana, not legally allowed to own clubs here in nashville.<br><br>Okay, where am I going with this? Here's the deal. First off, the investigation was botched from the beginning. For example, Janet's (the murder victim) was found at an apartment complex. No one interviewed people in that complex till something like two months later. Also, Perry's hard drive was going to be confiscated...but he was told ahead of time...and the hard drive "disappeared." Just vanished right out of his computer. Finally, a call was made to the police suggesting the body was on this strip club owner's property. My own theory is that he assisted Perry in disposing of the body. In any event, it looks like he was tipped off. If Janet's body ever was there, it wasn't there by the time the police started digging.<br><br>In addition, Perry's father had come up from Mexico...and was implicated in the murder conspiracy charges. So he is testifying against Perry. Now..finally, we get to how this relates to RA. Perry's dad told the police how the two of them had driven the body up to Kentucky and disposed of it in a certain place. The thing is, the story is full of holes. The police, however, have the confession and now have no need to pursue any of the organized crime connections. <br><br>Likely, they are already aware that those connections are there. They actually went after the strip club owner for info, but officially nothing has come of it. My assumption is that this is a high profile case, so despite the connections between the police and organized crime figures, they needed a conviction. But there is a line that they won't cross. But I think in such cases, there's a real art to getting a conviction without bringing in all the other connections. <br><br>I can't prove all this, of course, though the involvement of mafia types in the life of the murderer, Perry, is quite clear. I think that this is simply the way life works in many communities. Even when perpetrators sometimes get busted there's just a line you don't cross. When it starts to involve establishment figures or to expose how our law enforcement agencies are compromised by their own involvement and corruption it simply won't go any further. I think this is standard operating procedure and to acknowledge this and understand this immediately makes the idea of RA/pedo networks involving more establishment types believable. It doesn't prove it, but it tells me that it's perfectly feasible for such networks to operate with impunity.<br><br>Our own society, here in the US, is in a pretty advanced state of internal decay, in my view. The corruption is so prevalent that it's really hard to find an official source to turn to to investigate such matters. I think the Levines, the parents of Janet March, feel the prosecutor is rather trustworthy and I hope they are right. I think (they don't give me inside info even though I know them...so should anyone connected to this case be reading this...I make no claims about what their actual perspective is) that they understand that the police are not trustworthy, and in any event, I have made my own opinion on this clear to them. However, I think that my friend thinks I'm nuts (in general, not specifically about the case) so I don't know how seriously they take my perspective. <br><br>The "revolution" that is needed in our society and culture is one that must go very deep. A few changes at the top won't get it, which is another reason I don't like political perspectives about how our country has been "hijacked" by a small group. This corruption and exploitation is a river both very wide and very deep. <br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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similarities

Postby blanc » Sat Jun 10, 2006 3:32 pm

There are common elements between this story and the one I quarter told. frinstance, there was a policeman associated with the criminals who 'couldn't be found', by his same force that is. there was a general f*** up investigation at first which failed to locate and interview suspects for a long time, long enough for them to get together and work out what to say - mainly nothing. there was a failure to search thoroughly...and so on.<br>But it is the blatant trashing of witnesses and plaintiffs by imputing their motives and /or sanity - are we to accept this, or do we demand a change in the law which will allow for a legal challenge to inadequate investigation of crime?<br>Human rights law says that crimes must be investigated. But the quality of investigation is the thing - how it goes is ; avoid it or botch it if you can't put the plaintiff off, pass papers to CPS asap, CPS replies not enough evidence for a conviction, case closed. happens over and over. there's not enough evidence of course because they don't look for it where it will be found. <br>Meanwhile, look again at the closing paras of the doc biao posted - as long as these crimes continue in the in your face way that they currently do, not only direct victims suffer, but secondary trauma to all who come in contact with images,<br> and knock on effects on our growing children. <br><br>I don't want to get into the argument about strip joints and prostitution, because the thread is about the link between violent pornography and ra. Obviously there is a link between these aspects of same industry, but spelling out that link often leads to arguments about where to draw the line - kind of futile argument because no -one here is likely to draw it the other side of the violent non consensual snuff that this thread is about.<br><br>I am in agreement that our society (certainly UK,USA) has got too well steeped in corruption for a simple change of figurehead to effect change. <br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: social and question on equasterian aspects in RA/MC

Postby Sepka » Mon Jun 12, 2006 2:32 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr> Sepka, please tell us why this is interesting, perhaps you also have a cent or two for this query.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>My interest is more tangential than direct, I'm afraid. I'm not sure I'll really be able to answer to anyone's satisfaction, my own included. I've said before that I don't believe in the existence of ritualized abuse, at least not in the sense that most of the posters here do, as a grand conspiracy of the powerful. I'm willing to consider that I might be wrong, but it would take quite a bit to sway me.<br><br>Some months ago, there was a thread featuring a picture of George Bush with the Easter Bunny at the White House Easter celebration. A lot of people jumped on that as having some connection to the stories about RA involving animal costumes. I'm heavily involved in the fursuiting/mascotting community, and have been for the past 12 years or so. It's not that large of a community, and most of the major players know one another. In addition to knowing a number of sports mascots, I have friends who've performed at the White House egg roll. I can't vouch for what's in Bush's mind - maybe he does see some arcane significance in having a costumed rabbit there. I doubt it, but I don't really know. I do know why the performers are there, although I doubt that I could ever quite explain it. It's got nothing to do with RA, the quest for secular power, etc, though. I can guarantee that.<br><br>Now the thing is, most of the professionals, and all of the amateurs, are deeply in touch with our animal nature. Horses, cats, foxes, etc., aren't just liked as companions or hobbies, but often seen as a sort of alternate identity. There're a <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>lot</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> of people involved in various ways with horses, and a lot of pony players also. You get a fair number of people involved with other large animals as well. Two of my friends keep deer (and identify themselves to some extent as deer), and I used to know a fellow who kept lions (legally), until he got eaten. <br><br>What I'm realizing here is that the profiles of behaviour and demography that are being attributed to this strange, satanic elite that are supposedly behind the RA phenomenon fits the fursuiting/mascotting community quite tightly. I don't know if this means anything or not. I do know that the idea that a large group of us are complicit in some massive conspiracy is ridiculous. One or two is possible, but frankly I even doubt that. The costuming is the primary motivation - it's not a means to anything.<br><br>The intersection of mind control with horses interests me in particular because of pony play. For those unaware, or only marginally aware of it, pony play is generally lumped in with BDSM as a sexual fetish, but it really isn't. Like fursuiting, it can have a sexual dimension, but that's only a tiny part of it. From the pony player's perspective, it's about turning off your analytical mind, and getting into the 'pony space'. It's about becoming a horse, which is what most of us wanted to be growing up anyway. It has a resonance with stories of MC, of course, because when you've got your head thoroughly into the pony space, you'll follow your trainer's directions without thinking. It is an incredibly free, safe feeling, with no thought and no anxiety. You're voluntarily giving up yourself, and letting the trainer live though you. That's a terribly inadequate description, but it's the best I can do. I've never heard anyone else adequately describe the attractions of the pony space either. You just have to have been there.<br><br>I've explained it poorly, but I hope it'll give some idea of why the pompatus that surrounds allegations of an RA/MC theory interests me.<br><br>-Sepka the Space Weasel <p></p><i></i>
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