Ritual abuse findings in survey of AFMA

[biaothanatoi]

In 1998, a founding member of the Australian False Memory Association undertook a <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.afma.asn.au/ELSONREP1.html" target="top">survey of members</a><!--EZCODE LINK END-->.<br><br>She has no idea how to analyse quantitative data and most of the survey, and it's results, are absolute junk. Unlike similar surveys in America and Britain, this manuscript is unpublished, which is no suprise - a peer-reviewed journal would chew it up and spit it out.<br><br>Despite the shortcomings in methodology and reporting, some very interesting findings emerge from the survey:<br><br>- The over-representation of clergy and teachers in the AFMS eg The men accused of sexual abuse were in professions where they would have access to children. <br><br>- Two-thirds of respondents reporting raising their ‘accusing’ child in religiously ‘active’ or ‘very active’ households. Almost 40% of respondents were fundamentalist Christians (compared to 3% in the Australian census). <br><br>- 33% of respondents claimed to be aware that their child had been sexually abuse by others. <br><br>And, wait for it:<br><br>- Ritual abuse featured in 20% of ‘accusations’. <br><br>- Respondents reported that their ‘accuser’ had been diagnosed with DID/MPD in 13% of cases. <br><br>One reading of these findings is that the AFMA is a support network for ritual abuse perpetrators in Australia. <br><br>A phrase from a letter penned by an RA perp to an advocate (reported in Andrew Boyd's "Blasphemous Rumours") keeps echoing in my head: "Another mask is in place ... " Just how blatant and strategic are these perps? <p></p><i></i>

[blanc]

"false memory" is a contradiction in terms, is that its kudos, that by blocking our understanding it blocks our questioning?<br>its either false or its a memory<br><br> like "war on terror" - another contradiction: war = terror, how can you make war ON terror?<br><br>or "mind control" , a mind controlled is no longer a mind, but this euphemism for elaborate, lengthy, programmed torture, blocks outrage, nearly sanitises, by the indigestible, but sci-fi-ish, term used.<br><br>when we use these terms, and we can only use them, because they have slipped into the vocabulary, we become complicit in the con they embody, obliged to reinforce the deceitful concept with each utterence, or get side-tracked into long arguments explaining why exactly they are deceitful terms.<br><br><br><br>is AFMA a support network for ritual abuse perps in Australia? It can't be anything else because it is founded on a lie, created to bury the truth that ra exists. <br>sadly, that doesn't mean that every parent who approached AFMA is necessarily an ra perp. it is possible for people who were abused in ra settings to be misled, and it is possible for people who have no intention of being involved in these crimes to be apparently involved, and also not to know that this has happened to them and to their children. <br>therefore, in any one case, it could be that one or both parents were unknowingly present or impersonated. That could be the least likely scenario to have given rise to the accusations by adult children. But even less likely, IMHO is that numerous psychotherapists, unkown to each other, and not in contact with each other, against all professional practice and at huge personal risk to themselves and livelihoods, whimsically decided to implant remarkably similar devastating ideas about complex abuse and convince their clients that these ideas are true memories. Anyone who suggests such an unlikely group of events as an explanation for accusations of ra, should come under scrutiny - its a far fetched enough thesis to ring alarm bells. But the pseudo scientific term, "false memory syndrome", with its inherent, mind blocking contradiction, baffles.<br><br><br>the lawyer, Hirsch, in the Dutroux case, used this scam, and it worked. <br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[havanagilla]

its interesting, your observation on the use of the term MC. This is term the perps used. Sometimes it makes sense to redefine the crime from the pov of the victim, as an empowering act. I never thought about it this way. In Hebrew, the wording is <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>"spiritual and psychological captivity</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->", so this is actually taking it to the place you are aiming at. (that's mainly because there is no verbatim translation from mind control, the problem is with the word Mind, I will not get into translation problems now). For the sake of clarity, MC serves its purpose for now (short and widespread yet accurate enough not to cover too much ground), but thinking about rephrasing is a good idea. <br>--<br>I do think there is a way to instill false memories or whatever one calls it (screen memories), and there are ways to mess with the mind, identity, memories, feelings etc. I would see it as another torture method that should serve as a circumstantial proof that the person alleging abuse has been abused, and not as a proof of unreliable testimony. In fact, in many cases of abuse, the creation of a "false memory" is part of the seal, or the attempt to prevent any meaningful account. BUt I guess this is a bit more complex for the public to grasp, and the spin of the FMSF was more "catchy" and tempting.<br>--<br> <p></p><i></i>

[blanc]

perhaps sometimes it is a question of false interpretations of real sensory data? memory formation, as I understand it, consists of organising sensory input into a 'script' or narrative. <br>many survivors of ra have the other kind of memory - if that isn't too clumsy a way to put it, fragmented trauma memories which come back in unsummoned flashbacks, or sensations unrelated to their present reality.<br>the FMS lot seem to posit that these fragments have been assembled by psychotherapists into an untrue narrative, which the patient digests.<br>there are several probs with this. one of which is there would have to be fragments of memories which lend themselves to this kind of interpretation. ie trauma type memory fragments. <br>if the disputed part of the memory is only who the abuser was (was the protesting parent a willing participant), then, yes, I can see that there are ways to confuse the victim, and in fact know of cases where this process was set up.<br>But in fact there has been an enthusiastic leap by perp-protectors from the "memory is not infallible" to "all these memories are false implants. <p></p><i></i>

[havanagilla]

more on that.<br>--<br>From personal experience, there are indeed "bling spots" on the way to reconstructing the messy life in victimhood. I remember having a dream once, which is still vivid with me, that I am kind of looking hard, concentrating, trying to "pin the culprit", I feel very tired and frustrated and then I am taken to heaven where I see my grandfather, and I am relieved to find out "he is the perp". (well, he died when I was 7) I don't think it was "the right answer" but the dream illustrated or repeated the confusion of being victimized and not knowing who the perp is, and how much energy it takes from a person to live with that confusion. <br>--<br>Another point, which I feel is relevant but not sure how. During recovery, or what seems to be endless attempts to restore a sense of order, meaning and continuity in the mind, there is a desparate need for validation. This can play out in a way that might appear as "implanting a story, false memory". Namely, when I met with the first people who acknowledge my epxerience, I was so grateful, and so suggestible, (still am, in that context) that I would be willing to "go along" with explanations, just to feel the relief of closure. Since "the story" is so complex and fragmented, the need for a comprehensive and intelligable narrative is immense. This can open the way for distortions, especially since victims (if most are like myself) are easily willing to jump at the first "authoritative" narrative that comes along. So this could be bona fide quest, which might at some stages hit a wrong interpretation, OR a manipulative "quest" that exploits the victim's need for validation/explanation to impose a biased story (for a variety of reasons). <br>--<br>At some stage in my recovery path, I ran into a lady, whom I still don't know where to place. She was an elderly psychologist (from the "integrative/new age" school), a holocaust survivor who was celibate, and lived with her mother in Jerusalem. She was one of the first people who validated my MC situation. We spent a lot of time together trying to figure out what and who and why. At some point I was hitting on incest by my father, very fragmented memories, and some dreams. I was going along with that very strongly then, it felt right and she encouraged me to confront my parents and to even hire a lawyer to kind of "nego" with them about it. She met my father, who denied, and eventually not much came out of it. I am quite sure he torture me, but the memories are fragmented and perhaps my psyche needs protection from the actual memory, and I am not sure whether he, or only he, mollested me. My mother, who was then seeing a shrink for her own reasons, came back with "homework" from her shrink, with all the "FMSF" materials, and her shrink, said I might be suffering from a suggestion placed there by the other shrink. Eventually, under my pressure, my mother's shrink said she is discontinue my mother's therapy. i remember that I felt very very angry, and sad, to see this FMSF crap, because it was like saying "you say we abused you, so we are saying maybe you are so crazy that your shrink was able to make you imagine all this". not only is it horrible but very useless in terms of family therapy, because it totally disempowers everyone, even the perps, IMHO. Everyone become pawns in the "intellectual game" bn various schools of shrinkage. absurd. There cannot be any resolution, it gets everything very "stuck" and hopeless. <br>-<br>Eventualy, my mother settled for "everyone has "THEIR" truth, like Rashomon"...(classis DID). <br>--<br>however, now that 7 years elapsed, I am questioning the ability and the motivation of my friend/shrink, not because she was mean, but it turned out later, that she was a part of a cult who were gathered around a Channel in Jerusalem, who "brought down" a "spirit guide" forgot his name right now, who was teaching the group and also RUNNING every aspect of their life and decisions. My friend turned to be a person who has deep problem with reality and also with a "cult syndrom" I believe. OUr relationship ended when one day she confided with me about this group, and that she is very confused becasue in their last "session" the "spirit" addressed her specifically and somewhat angrily and told her that she is a victim of ET experiments (from Sirius), and that she is very wrong about many events in her life, namely, she can't see what is actually happening, et.c namely, the "spirit" was telling her that she a subject of some sort of extraterrestrial MC. ????? and this made her very mad and sad and distressed. I felt that this mumbo jumbo is one stage beyond my "open mindedness" and that she is a nut case, in a way.<br>--<br>So i also think her eagerness to turn my memory quest into a confrontatoin where SHE is playing a role, was coming from personal issues, and might have been a mistake in judgement. These things can lead to complications.<br>--<br>An aside...a few months ago she called me suddenly, and I said i will call back and never did. I googled her name, and saw that she is working for a very very very suspect/weirdo who is now forming and heading Mensa Israel, a convert with some bizarre notions of his own. Namely, she is still in a cult setting. I also saw that mensa was forming "gifted children" groups, which kind of gave me the creeps.<br>--<br>btw, this elderly psych/integrative lady, had her BA from Berkeley CA. <p></p><i></i>

[blanc]

being sent to heaven or hell to see a trusted adult<br><br>being deliberately misled as to the identity of the perpetrator(s)<br><br>being deliberately misled as to the agreement of a trusted adult to the abuse (including to the extent of drugging said adult and having him/her present)<br><br>these are some of the subterfuges, along with disguises, which have featured in survivor accounts<br><br>a young child who is told that he/she has gone to heaven/hell would accept this as readily as being told she went anywhere else. <br><br>out of body experiences have also featured in accounts, as they do in other trauma situations - I think DE posted about this once.<br><br>survivors often seem to remember via dreams.<br><br>perps often do seek out child access occupations, this is familiar to police units dealing with child abuse in general. knowing of a religious org. which operates as a cover for an abusive org. has led me to think about the advantages to the perps provided by such a cover. one of these, is that families offer themselves (unknowingly) when they are going through a bad patch, which makes them vulnerable, and distracted, and they put their trust more readily in priests, ministers etc. In so doing they self select themselves as targets if the priest etc is bent. So of those religious respondents to the survey biao posts, some could be parents who are genuinely "innocent" , but clutching at the wrong straw (FMS) when their child accuses. I don't actually know of any case where a child or adult son or daughter, persists in the accusation of abuse against a parent who seems to be innocent of all knowledge of it, but from the subterfuge processes common to abusive groups conclude that this is a theoretical possibility. they work pretty hard at fogging up the guilt/innocent issue, and equally hard at making the child feel he/she has no safe haven, no adult to turn to for help.<br> <p></p><i></i>

[havanagilla]

heaven as in "the next world" (we, Jews, don't have hell, its all called heaven but not necessarily a nice place. it is called "the world of truth".). After this dream i actually confronted my mother, i asked her if it were possible that ..etc. this is why, my situation became problematic when I was confronting my father. as in "she is blaming all the world, not credible", but the process of "finding the perp" is just like that. it is a quest, and sometimes there are more than one, i bet usually there is more than one. But it goes against credibility in the strict legal sense. <br>---<br><br>that's where I am not entirely sure as to how much it is possible to implant a false perp...I think that with regards to parents, its hard to imagine this would be possible, without some degree of abuse by that parent. But as to others, not so close, I suspect it is possible for a WHILE to create havoc. (I am sure my father abused me, and tortured me. I am quite sure - not as much - that he mollested me, but I am not sure he is the MAIN sex abuser in my childhood, and I think he didnt' go all the way, and another/s did. He certainly cooperated with or allow whoever was the main perp. so this is the confusion, and so I don't think that confronting him, was timely before sorting all this). <br>But I have another case in mind, re my own experience, and which also involved a therapist (which is relevant to the FMSF people saying therapists do that) - one time when I was reconstructing an event that happened in the USA, and I was kind of telling him the framework of the events. And I told him the name of the organization that sent me there (which is a kind of jewish leftist NGO) and he said suddenly..."oh say they are also into this DARK thing..." namely, into MC...it was a small comment, but it kind of sank. I redirected a lot of attention and anger towards this NGO...etc. etc. Now, thinking back, this is a bit of a spin. namely, this org served as "cover" but I am not sure it was knowingly, or maybe some people knew something, but certainly the org, which is fairly big, is not an MC org. It is a foundation that finances numerous orgs and activities. So, I think his comment was manipulative, and indeed confused me and sent me off a "chase"...at this time. So it is NOT that this org, or the specific people who knew/should have known - is innocent, but sometimes, the shift, the focus, the level of intensity goes out of proportion in a way that is counterproductive, or can give rise to FMSFish accusations. <br><br>--<br>If I am now looking back at this time, i'd say from 1995 when the first crack opened in me (until then I was totaly on "auto pilot" and controlled, and "in action"), until now, which is roughly a decade, with some long periods of recess and rest, there were a lot of bumps, wrong turns, ups and downs, "eureka" and "oh shoot, no" etc. So, naturally, in terms of the legal framework, this raises a lot of skepticism. <br>--<br>So, I can say now, that I have the skeleton of the story, with a lot of holes, but I can tolerate the uncertainties. This is not the case when you FIRST hit on things, the uncertainty is unbearable. <br> <p></p><i></i>

[blanc]

I am not sure that it would be pos. to create the idea that an innocent person was 'the' perpetrator, as opposed to 'agreed to this happening" In an individual case, the only evidence worth listening to is that of the person(s) involved - ie usually the victim. not the hypotheses of those who hear the story. but in looking at a statistical spread of cases about which one has no direct knowledge, I think a caveat is sensible. there's enough evidence that perps try to sow confusion, to accept the possibility that they might sometimes succeed.<br><br>Against these attempts at confusing victims, all of those whose stories I know of, have not been fooled.<br><br>In the ra cases the money trail is useful.<br><br>btw you mean that your mother could not accept that there could be more than one perp.? multiple perpetrators is frequent/ usual scenario in these kinds of abuse, almost by definition. and quite often 'generational'. <p></p><i></i>

[professorpan]

Anyone who has taken an objective look at RA will understand that there have been many cases of RA that turned out to be fantasies induced by overzealous prosecutors and poorly-trained, deluded therapists.<br><br>That, of course, does not mean *all* RA cases are bogus. The Hosanna Church case, which I have been writing about for some time, is an example of what appears to be a bona fide RA criminal network.<br><br>But to deny that people can be influenced to report false events -- and even to believe them -- flies in the face of the evidence.<br><br>There are innocent people rotting in jail because of baseless accusations of RA, just as there are perpetrators running free because RA accusations are "off-limits" in many courtrooms.<br><br>If we want to get to the truth, it's important to view the subject objectively -- which means acknowledging the real abuses *and* the examples of hysteria, confabulation, and "Satanic panic." <p></p><i></i>

[Project Willow]

Prof Pan,<br>Please be specific about which cases you refer to as fantasies.<br><br>I know of only one that upon further investigation turned out to be questionable.<br><br>All the other high profile cases that were supposedly "debunked" in the mainstream media actually hold up if one looks at the details.<br><br>Thanks. <p></p><i></i>

[havanagilla]

Yes blanc, I agree with your comments. I suspect my mother is both not honest in the simple way (liar, consciously) but also, I think she is protecting herself form knowing, perhaps, how her father was, FOR her own sake.<br>It turns out that my late grandfather, has been living a double life, namely, had an "official concubine" (who was his secretary too), and it was overt and known by everyone in town. She is unable to speak about, genuinely, namely, she cannot see him as a real person, but as something she constructed for her own reasons. So, any crack in the wall is too threatening. as for other abuses, I think she knows within the meaning of the term in criminal law, she knew and allowed it, or even initiated some of it. So, its a bit of a mixed bag of bad intent, denial of some elements, DID etc. I am not sure there is a "clean" case, usually perps probably have some luggage they don't confront, not all of them, but some.<br>--<br>As for the general issue, I think that if we consider RA a crime among other crimes, there is a certain rate of false accuations, "bad memory", and hallucinations too. this could happen with car theft, complaints, or simple battery complaints. What I find annoying is that when it comes to RA and also to rape and other sex offenses, we are required to hold a "perfect standard" OR else the whole theory collapses. That's clearly biased against women, usually.<br>So, when one rape complaint is found malicious, the whole chorus of neigh sayers starts saying that women are always liars and that "rape" is a fantasy. But when hundreds of other criminal complaints turn out to be unfounded or framing..nobody will say that there are no imbezzlements, thefts or batteries. <p></p><i></i>

[chiggerbit]

I think there are probably a number of high profile cases that were poorly investigated, victims improperly interviewed, etc. That doesn't mean that there was nothing to the allegations, just that the investigation was not carried out well, resulting in a trashed case. Hopefully, times have improved techniques, and at the very least, ALL interviews are now videotaped as a permanent record. <p></p><i></i>

[professorpan]

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Please be specific about which cases you refer to as fantasies.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>I believe that most of the biggest cases of alleged SRA are baseless. Some of the cases I consider to be examples of actual "Satanic Panic":<br><br>The Fells Acres Case<br>Wee Care Nursery<br>Kern County<br>Little Rascals<br>Breezy Point Daycare<br>Wenatchee<br><br>And I'm still have very strong reservations about the validity of the McMartin case. <br><br>A big caveat here, though... I don't believe that *all* accusations of RA are baseless. Just most. And I have looked closely at the details, but I'm always open to evidence I might have missed.<br><br>And please don't take this as a denial of your own experiences.<br> <p></p><i></i>

[Project Willow]

Prof Pan,<br><br>I've looked more closely at two of those cases than the rest. I knew someone on one of the juries in the Wenatchee case. <br><br>All of these high profile cases were subjected to similar treatment. It's a process akin to how the republicans can spin and distort an issue, repeating the same falsehoods until they stick from repetition and lack of an alternative voice. I watched it progress with Wenatchee. At first the coverage was fairly straight forward. Then activists connected with an FMS type group in California arrived and began picking apart every detail in the case, issuing press releases, and putting pressure on the prosecutor. <br><br>The other factor working in the debunkers' favor was that the community itself was completely unprepared for the case. The abuse was widespread in a small town, it involved some people of fairly high standing, and the details were horrific. Community pride almost dictated a denial response. <br><br>Although the central defendants in the case have sued many times, many of the juries have refused to give them money, even when they find negligence on behalf of the authorites. The first suit took place where I live. The pastor lost that case.<br><br>I don't believe in satanic panic, nor do I believe in "false memories" that can be "implanted" simply during an interview. You have to drug, hypnotize, and/or torture someone to create a believable and persistent screen memory. I think "Satanic panic" is more apropos to describe the public's need to deny and cover up. If you think about how difficult it is to get people to recognize injustices in general, let alone to work to end them, the concept of a satanic panic flies in the face of common sense. What we saw with these cases was the sexual abuse survivor movement finally making inroads into the most extreme and organized forms of abuse. What followed was a perp coordinated backlash wholeheartedly assisted by a frightened and under-resourced public.<br><br>We could probably spend a couple of threads arguing the details of one or two of the cases. I don't have time for that, and it being the first of the month, I barely have time to blink. But I would like to go over some notes and present some details that you may not have found in readily available media. I won't be able to get back to it for a few days. Read some of the victim testimony from the Fells Acres case, they are grown, they have not recanted. <p></p><i></i>

[biaothanatoi]

I know it rhymes, but that doesn't make it real. It's just rhetoric and hyperbole. If the "Satanic panic" existed:<br><br>a. The professionals involved in those cases would need to have had prior knowledge of RA and a conviction that RA had taken place in those cases - which, if you read their testimony and narratives, is not the case.<br><br>b. There would need to be evidence of this "mass hysteria" eg a significant body of professionals that believe in ritual abuse and are prepared to offer care and support to ritual abuse survivors.<br><br>PP, if you know of this massive body of professionals who are hysterically dedicated to the wellbeing of RA survivors - perhaps you can point us in their direction? Because I've been looking for a few years now, and I can't find any.<br><br>Beyond those two key problems with the "Satanic panic" theory:<br><br>What is the psychological mechanism whereby one person's passive knowledge of a phenomenon is unconsciously transfered/implanted into the mind of another person against their will and without their knowledge, resulting in a conviction that harm had been committed against them, and producing traumatic psychological symptoms congruent with that harm?<br><br>You referred to 'fantasies' - could you please discuss the psychopathology that results in children claiming to have been brutally dehumanised by an organised network of sexual offenders when this has not taken place? You'll need to explain how it is that their disclosures are consistent and congruent with the truth claims of other children, adults and perpetrators who have been in similar situations, and such crimes have been established and prosecuted in a court of law.<br><br>These 'fantasies' - if the children are lying, as you believe, what do they gain from it? If the adults are (through some unknown mechanism) 'implanting' those fantaises, what do they gain from it? Money? No. "Attention"? Hardly. Pleasure? Absolutely not. Their lives are turned upside down and destroyed. Sounds like a pretty crappy 'fantasy' to me. <p></p><i></i>