Insex Cult Leader Calls It Quits!

by **glittergothnyaolcom** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:21 pm

Hello, After much frustration with the people and commentary on this board I have decided to retire from the board and therefore, this will be my last post. I feel that the people commenting have nothing but the worst intentions in mind for my mental and emotional well being seeing as everything thus far has been attack after attack of negative energy. I would like to comment however, for any individual thinkers out there who still have the capability to think and reason for themselves: in reference to Dream's End: how is it that this person cannot afford to buy the full documentary online for $6.95 but somehow has time to blog all day, post after post? Atfter hearing about this person's financial and personal problems, doesn't it seem as though MOST of their day should be taken up figuring out how to get by and help their wife heal, not discrediting a young female victim's documentary movie exposing the truth that has just barely gotten off the ground yet a week? What do these people have to gain by spending an inhuman amount of time burying my movie and my research? I am 23 years old, almost broke myself, trying to heal and change the world, can I get a little positive feedback or at least a person with a slight hint of compassion? If anyone doubts the mind control parallels to my case please go to www.reflectionsinthenight.com the web page of an MC survivor who took the time to watch my film all the way through and afterwards put a link to my site on her own site. She told me that it is the most important documented evidence that she has seen and that this information needs to get out to the public because it is actually filmed and therefore no one can accuse me of having false memories. So please, be wary of what I believe to be planted people on this board telling you that my story is "BS" and "not to watch the movie" because it is "triggering" I think everyone out there can be an individual and not take part in a GROUP THINK...this person is not an expert,has no credentials.....how does anyone know who they are and why they are doing what? Please go to the site and view the 30 min free clip so that you may make up your own mind. One more thing.....on the subject of Infek, to clear his name, I now looking back at the fist intro page, which I must have initially skipped over, I now understand that his writings and art work were left to us as a gift, a gift to help us make our way through a very dark world and come out on the other side standing in the light of truth. I thank him and wish all the best to his family Thank you all again -Moonshine

by **Dreams End** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 9:06 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>how is it that this person cannot afford to buy the full documentary online for $6.95 <hr></blockquote> Ummm....I'm a little embarrassed here. I had simply assumed the cost was much higher as most DVD's are. Without looking at the ordering site, I assumed at least 20 bucks. Oh, and thanks for your helpful advice about how to run my life. As for triggering...OF COURSE IT IS TRIGGERING. And though you aren't posting here anymore, I hope you read this, if nothing else. If you go to ANY website that supports survivors of ra/mc or even simply abuse which led to DID...in ANY place they discuss topics that might bring up associations with past abuse, a trigger warning is posted. Project Willow's art site, from which you took the journal drawings, has trigger warnings on the artwork she has that deals with her abuse. Saying the material is triggering is not the same as saying it's not true...in fact, truth can be more triggering than fiction. As you must know due to your research, on some sites, such as Mosaic Minds, entire discussion rooms are set aside and any potentially triggering material is only to be discussed there. In addition, potentially triggering material has it's own icon. Hell, people even leave out letters to words like "hospital" and "religion" just because those words can trigger some people. This is STANDARD PROCEDURE. That said, how can you possibly not know this? I think your research into MC is really incomplete...and you may very well be endangering those whom you are attempting to help with this video. And also, I encouraged others to go to your site and decide for themselves. Those who are triggered by images of violence and abuse I urged to have a trusted friend watch for them or with them. But I said I wanted others to check it out. You are getting hits on your site because of me (well, I don't know if anyone listens to me...but in theory.) I said this repeatedly. As for ibl...I assume you are being facetious. No, I don't think his site is there to help us make our way through a dark world...the dude is twisted...or was. My only point was that the site is clearly not any sort of serious hub of technique for mind control, but is, instead, some kind of dark satire..meant to provoke, I guess. I don't know. But come on...advice to commit four human sacrifices a day to take 75 years off your life..with a TM trademark symbol after "ritual sacrifice"? Clearly not meant as some kind of real "system".

by **wintler** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 9:32 pm

As a relatively recent mere observer of the SRA world, but a long time battler of bad information in other fields, i think the previous posts provide classic educative/litmus-test material. Upon reading, rereading, and rereading again (and looking at a few of the links), it seems to me theres some solid gold, some serious disinfo, some noise, and some silver. I'll be buying the film, god knows i don't really want to watch it but nobody said the truth was pretty. I hope Moonshine returns, or finds safer harbour, and that Gaia protects and guides her and hers.

by **hmm** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 9:35 pm

i watched the censored version so i cannot comment on the uncensored version as i havent had the chance to view that yet. I just want to try to explain why it might be difficult for people to watch and the "triggering" warning seems apropriate to me. If you are not into "alternative culture" or in a certain age group the way this documentary is made might have the opposite effect from what was intended. A victim of abuse who has no experience of BDSM could be hurt by the imagery used and many who havent suffered abuse would shrink from that intense and painful imagery. having said that i do want to say that there is some excellent journalism here,the interviews themselves are compelling and disturbing and i doubt anyone here would disagree that the topics you bring up are relevant,important and worthy of discussion and especially on this board. Its just that not everyone is going to agree with every conclusion. I just want to wish you well and good luck with the journey you are on.

by **Dreams End** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 9:45 pm

wintler... please post your impressions when you watch it. I'm still not sure I'm going to buy the whole vid, even at 7 bucks, but I might...especially if they've done a bad job on the half hour vid at representing the overall vid. I'm particularly interested in how many of the interviews about MC specifically relate to Insex. I think the interviewees are reputable as far as I can tell.

by **robertdreed** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 10:55 pm

My reservations about the possible motivations for making the DVD would be taken care of with a brief written advance notice about the specific behaviors depicted therein.

by **Dreams End** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 11:20 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>My reservations about the possible motivations for making the DVD would be taken care of with a brief written advance notice about the specific behaviors depicted therein.<hr></blockquote> Yep. By the pricking of my thumbs.... But I sure as hell can't tell what's actually going on here.

by **robertdreed** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 11:34 pm

If you're talking to me, I was simply reiterating my earlier comment. I'm not up on the "pricking of my thumb" quote...Shakespeare?

by **Rigorous Intuition** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 11:53 pm

something wicked this way comes." Macbeth. And, I suppose, Ray Bradbury. I'm very conflicted about this thread. I've been tempted more than once, and for more than one reason, to lock it, but I've found the exchanges important enough to keep it open. I'm really not sure what is going on with the documentary. Without questioning motive, the presentation appears as sensationalistic and exploitive as the abuse it purports to expose.

by **proldic** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 12:13 am

the generation gap still exists!!

by **professorpan** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 12:32 am

I knew of the owner of the deathandhell site (infek bin Laden) via an entheogen email list many years ago. His style was very confrontational, and his subject manner disturbed many members of the list. I, too, was put off by his necrophiliac persona, and rarely interacted with him. I was soon to find out, however, that what he was doing was sort of a game. He was using that imagery to create an alternate personality -- literally a virtual extension of his deepest, darkest "shadow." Shock fiction, in other words, like splatter films and other edgy entertainment. It was a fictional exploration of dark musings that he tried to make as edgy, humorous, and creepy as he could. He stopped posting for a while, and his wife wrote an email from his account. He had gotten very sick with what I believe was a brain tumor. His wife seemed like a sweet and compassionate woman, and it was clear they loved each other deeply. She quickly disabused us of our perceptions of the "Infek bin Laden" character, and explained to us that it was a very big joke. One of the listmembers had a chance to meet him before he died, and found him to be a very loving, sad man as he faced his imminent death. He left what I feel is a beautiful "last message" to the world, which can be found here: <a href="http://www.deathandhell.com/intro.html">www.deathandhell.com/intro.html</a> I don't think lumping this site in with the other material cited in the original post is useful. Infek never advocated hurting anyone or anything -- he just used his fiction to poke into the dark places of his imagination.

by **Dreams End** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 1:36 am

Thanks for the comments. I don't know what my deal is. I really don't sign on to this site looking for people to attack. And I didn't mean to attack here. Something just felt really wrong about this thing right from the start. Deathandhell was screwy...clearly not the center of anything, no matter your opinion of ibl. No credits at all on the website for the film. Really expensive and sophisticated flash animation on the site, despite the need for guerilla marketing (but they may just have a gifted animator working with them). But what the hell is up with that robot, anyway? Anyone else find that odd? Exploitive and sensationalistic. VERY triggering but without feeling a need to warn (indeed, she really doesn't seem to get what is meant by "triggering"). Seriously, what I said was true. In material meant for an audience of survivors of abuse/mc/ra who have DID (or programming as mc victims would have it) you label EVERYTHING that might be triggering. Even discussions of ordinary sexual acts. And triggering doesn't mean just getting mad, it can mean a self-destructive alter takes over. It is extremely serious. And her responses to me. Well, hell, I'd be pissed if someone dissed my work...but immediately calling me a "plant." Of course, I get that a lot these days. Anyway...the articles on the indynet sites don't seem to be drawing much attention (some have been removed for unspecified posting guideline violations....could just be for advertising.) I was expecting more online "chatter" about all this. So probably over-reacted.

by **Dreams End** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 3:12 am

This site is a scam. Moonshine is a sick fuck capitalizing on possible "educational use" loopholes to put illegal material on the internet for sale on members only site. Here's the disclaimer. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>The content on this site is mature in nature and contains explicit language, nudity and graphic violence (similar to that of a R. RATED movie). You must be 18 and over or accompanied by a parent/legal guardian to enter. This is not an adult site and contains "no actual sex" as described in USC 2256 (absolutely none of the following<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/mad.gif ALT=">:"> genital to gential contact, oral to genital contact, masturbation or extended sadomasochist filmed activity). There is no illegal content, only legal simulated dramatizations and all performers were over the age of 18 (with proof on file) at the time of filming. <hr></blockquote> This is called a lie. It really does NOT prepare you for what you are about to see. I realize that sometimes these porn site disclaimers are there for purely legalistic reasons, but in the case of this film, I think this is negligent and probably illegal. Now to the "download" part. This is how they advertise the members only section (it's on the flash page so I can't cut and paste. I will try not to introduce any errors in transcribing but you can go there yourself. ) <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Once logged in, you will navigate through 7 pages of over four and a half hours of totally original footage and music video artwork, each page featuring a different themed segment of the movie. Your pass will grant you three days total in which you can download all seven portions: AVN Intro to Degrading Porn, girls gagged till they vomit, Confessions of a Human toilet, r-rated music videos, bdsm cult and mind control, a word to the parents, and the extras: strippers stripped!<hr></blockquote> It's a fucking scam. I am so fucking angry I keep having to delete what I've written. Goddamnit. Maybe it's not moonshine...maybe she really is under someone's control. In which case, moonshine, I redirect my anger at them. But let me explain exactly what triggering means. You lure abuse victims to your site...they see the images, a self-destructive alter comes out and it's game over. Maybe that's the whole point.

by **GDN01** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 6:00 am

In what way is this a scam? I watched the 30-minute uncensored video and found it disturbing but probably a realistic portrayal of this type of degrading porn industry. The women interviewed seemed to be revealing very difficult stories. The experts discussing how this is systematic torture used to destroy these women was informative and accurate. For any young woman who is considering going into the porn industry with the hopes of getting a break into something glamorous - they should see this first. I believe many young girls have no idea what they could be getting themselves into - the situations they may have to deal with. And the thing is, once it starts happening, it spirals out of control. The women believe these men when they say it will only be situations with certain limits - but once the women have given up their control, they have no way to stop what is happening. And once they have been traumatized and sexually abused, they lose their ability to say no. And that is what these men are counting on - they can say it was consensual because they have broken these women's will. Unless you have been raped and violated, you will not understand what it does to your self-image and will. You can say what you want about BDSM being different in a loving relationship but I think there is something very disturbing about the process used to create a sub, and the need to do so for sexual pleasure. I'm not sure what you are so angry about. I found nothing in the free download to be anything other than what it claimed to be. It is certainly not porn being disguised as an expose. Maybe the full version is, but there is no way for you to make that judgment unless you watch the entire thing. I think calling this a scam is unwarranted. I don't know why you feel a need to determine for everyone else what the appropriate reaction should be and set yourself up as the voice of authority on so many topics here. Maybe it is your need to be in control all the time. And there are certainly enough warnings on the site so that anyone who is troubled or "triggered" by this material would know not to watch on their own, without you making that decision for them.

by **jenz** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 6:22 am

I have met a number of survivors of ra, in its various forms. I have never yet met one who was able a short while after escaping to produce a coherently argued analysis of their experience. I have never met one who was not to a greater or lesser extent camera phobic, or who sought graphic exposure to a potentially wide audience of herself or her abuse. I don't claim that this is an absolute. I didn't respond to the article, despite obviously being in accord with its main point -- that abuse is abuse and cannot be claimed to be consensual - because I tend to respond at a gut level when I recognise what I know in the pain of others. I don't download or look at images of abuse because I think that the body is the temple of the spirit and its not nice to see the temple defiled, whatever the objective, so the best thing I could say to anyone wanting to make a movie about the abuse industry would have been don't feed the pervs. that's been the reason for avoiding explaining in detail what goes on, when for example, posters were responding to the Crowley/menstrual blood thread with remarks along the lines of it not being anatomically possible. sadists get off on the damage they cause - pathetic apologies for human beings that they are. saddest of all is the process of forcing a person to cross the line between abused and abuser. trying to get people who are active in opposing the abuse industry to be fooled into downloading illegal or immoral images is par for the course. My email was bombarded with spam specific to a person I was helping in a police complaint, presumably in the hope that I'd be daft enough to be drawn into trying to lay the proof in front of the unenthusiastic investigators, by clicking through to images which (they tried to make me think) conveniently matched the testimony the survivor had just given.

Insex Cult Leader Calls It Quits!

My last post....

Re: My last post....

very interesting

Re: My last post....a quick comment about the film

Re: My last post....a quick comment about the film

about the film

Re: about the film

Dreams End...

"By the pricking of my thumbs,

ahh

deathandhell.com

Re: deathandhell.com

Re: deathandhell.com

A scam?

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