Recent Illuminati Article

by **heyjt** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:05 pm

A well thought out one. The joke's on the "free market system? The jokes on a mythical ruling elite? The joke's on the reader? -- I remember seeing some anarchist literature and they clearly view (in the piece I saw) Weishaupt as a hero. It's a disconnect however, the very nature of anarchism is not in line with the spectre of a global ruling elite. Perhaps Weishaupt was revered for being against the monarchy...

by **televisionchild** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:44 pm

An interesting joke as well.... It offers a links page to Ill matters, and includes this blurb about itself: <a href="http://www.illuminati-order.com">www.illuminati-order.com</a> -- "A universally accepted theme of the various Illuminati organizations is that all are secret societies. Using this, some have tried to discredit our authenticity because we are not as secret as we are supposedly required to be. Required by whom? Who knows! So, let us be clear here and now that we are only as secrect as necessary to exist relatively unimpeded..." Said site also links to its own forum, with over 1600 posts, some of which seem creepy, some critical -- so who knows what that's about.... <a href="http://illuminati-order.com/forum/">illuminati-order.com/forum/</a> And finally, the joke comes clean when it links to a flash presentation sporting the Exorcist theme: "This Flash presentation, adapted from Ken Schoolland's The Adventures of Jonathan Gullible: A Free Market Odyssey, quickly and simply illustrates the basic principles that the Illuminati Order represent." <a href="http://illuminati-order.com/PhilosophyOfLiberty-english.swf">illuminati-order.com/Phil...nglish.swf</a> Fun stuff if you've got the free time. Joke's on me in the end....heading over to Wikipedia for info on the Ill...! That's cool though....I'm no stranger to false leads <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"> Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=televisionchild>televisionchild</A> at: 1/19/06 2:46 pm

by **biaothanatoi** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 8:21 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Don't know about that term, precisely, but the similarity in methods and content of programs supports the notion of an international group behind some of it. <hr></blockquote> Your 'garden variety' sexual offender uses very common techniques to groom and abuse children - do the commonalities in their techniques mean they all belong to a cult as well? Academics have surveyed torture methods around the world and across time (try Elaine Scary's "The Body in Pain" or Michael Humphrey's "The Politics of Atrocity and Reconciliation"). What they find is startling similarities in process - you can break the ordeal of torture down into specific stages, and most examples of torture are congruent with those stages. It seems that, when a human being decides to torture another human being (whether it's 'politically', ritually or domistically) we enter into a cognitive process that produces actions with a very specific structure. So it's no suprise that ritual abuse ordeals are similar to one another. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>I believe the techniques for splitting and programming children are like mechandise, in the international crime market, so it would make sense that they seem replicated and point to an international cult. <hr></blockquote> Manuals for grooming children are available and have been uncovered during police investigations, although police tend to consider the manuals to be the product of sadistic fantasy rather then instructional per se (hence they don't get taken seriously - the manual is treated as 'pornography' instead of what it actually is). The widespread underground knowledge of these techniques means that many people/groups around the world have a common interest in the torture of children - nothing more, nothing less. I don't see what the 'global cult' theory gives us beyond nuetering any attempt at the political mobilisation of survivors and undermining our fight to get adequate funding, services and recognition.

by **Dreams End** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 8:40 pm

Best source on Illuminati stuff I've seen. Because they find their way into so much rightwing whacko stuff, until recently, I didn't even believe they existed. I don't remember what's all on this site...I make no claims about anything, especially conclusions. I just remember it being thorough and not fitting into the typical Birch society nonsense. <a href="http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/Illuminati.htm">www.conspiracyarchive.com...minati.htm</a> One little thing I've been thinkin is that "grooming" of children and other methods of mind control are probably easier than those of us who don't do such things imagine. It also occurs to me that hypnosis alone, nevermind in connection with abuse, may be far MORE powerful than we are led to believe. In fact, the OFFICIAL story about Bluebird is that it was utilizing hypnosis, perhaps with drug enhancements. Not that you'd expect FOIA to turn up documents on intentional abuse of children or what have you. Martin Orne, founding member of FMSF was not just MKULTRA but a specialist in hypnosis. Is it possible to make false memories? You bet it is...and I'm sure he knew all about it. OF course, it's possible to photoshop an image of a model plane flying in the clouds...this does not mean planes do not REALLY fly. I have a completely unsubstantiated theory that PART of the coverup is about the very ease with which these techniques can be employed. The CIA's goal was to churn out a "Manchurian candidate" in an hour. Glad to see Bio's perspective on this stuff. I want to be supportive of the RA community but there's a lot of...well....unlikely features to many of the most famous stories. No doubt, this is why they ARE the most famous stories. And in another thread to which bio responded I mentioned Lloyd DeMause, whose thesis is that this sort of abuse is so prevalent as to be considered a social norm. He suggests it was even worse in the past. This is the foundation of his "psychohistory" theory, which I don't necessarily buy, but the evidence that this stuff is far more prevalent than we dare suggest I found compelling. And he also suggests that it is the morally upright, hyper superego types who engage in much of this...which reminds me of the weird phenomenon of its prevalence within conservative Christian communities and the prevalence of so many (distorted) 'exposes' of such behavior within the same milieu. It's truly a David Lynch world. And the little I've read of DeMause doesn't even get into organized networks, etc.

by **biaothanatoi** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 8:43 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>One thing Svali discussed was how the Mafia once was denied as having any globally organized reality, much in the way the Illuminati are today. <hr></blockquote> She draws a fallacious comparison. The Mafia is a loose coalition of criminal gangs and families, not a global, heirarchical, invisible, timeless cult. The stupidest thing that a series of ritually abusive groups could do is develop a central power structure and adopt a name. That's traceable. That's identifiable. That's easy to get into and crack. It's the fluidity of RA that makes it so dangerous. In my experience, groups can have no name, or several names (often pseudonyms like 'the Family'), members may be drawn from several different sources (churches, Masonic groups, occult groups, cult groups), leaders can be 'pillars of the community' or just the guy down the hall in the housing project. With RA there are no simple answers. I think the "Illuminati" are just an excuse for people to throw in the towel rather then get up and fight for the rights of survivors.

by ir » Fri Jan 20, 2006 4:27 am

oh, I totally agree that the case of "illuminati" like cult is dubious. I do believe, though, that networks, rings exist and they operate internationally, but not necessarily globally. It is the same kind of ties you are likely to find in drug trafficking, and intel communities, or multi national corporations. --

by **televisionchild** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 4:57 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>She draws a fallacious comparison. The Mafia is a loose coalition of criminal gangs and families, not a global, heirarchical, invisible, timeless cult. <hr></blockquote> Hm... Okay, maybe not timeless, but certainly global, hierarchical and invisible (until whenever they publicly emerged -- accordingly to Svali that is). <blockquote>Quote:<hr>The stupidest thing that a series of ritually abusive groups could do is develop a central power structure and adopt a name. That's traceable. That's identifiable. That's easy to get into and crack. It's the fluidity of RA that makes it so dangerous. In my experience, groups can have no name, or several names (often pseudonyms like 'the Family'), members may be drawn from several different sources (churches, Masonic groups, occult groups, cult groups), leaders can be 'pillars of the community' or just the guy down the hall in the housing project.<hr></blockquote> I'm not sure anything you're saying contradicts Svali's own description of the organization she apparently was raised in from birth and only left in her late 30's. I won't go chapter & verse here, but she does claim to have been a trainer in RA herself, and on both her website and her radio interviews, she provides plenty of detailed information about how the cult operates in secrecy effectively and why she thinks it's effective. I understand you don't believe an Ill conspiracy exists, and I've got zero authority to counter your claim. However, I personally do think that Svali has offered a compelling case that deserves more than an either/or argument for or against its validity. How valid her presentation is seems to me to be a more fitting question in her case. If you are attributing her claims about an existant Illuminati to the relatively superficial lies communicated to her by her abusers, remember that you are talking about someone who claims to have been involved for almost 40 years. That's a pretty effective job at planting false information. Still, I dunno nuttin', so I'm not sayin' what's what. Just curious about the possibilities beyond yes/no.

by ir » Fri Jan 20, 2006 5:54 am

The discussion here brings to mind the urgent need for more methodical research of testimonies and a sort of "data pool" with proper indexing/crossing of names, locations, etc. Next issue - SRA as social/psychological crime or a POLITICAL crime. I think this merits a serious discussion. Is it like pedphilia or incest ? namely, a personal crime or is it part of a political group/agenda ? emmm, this is very relevent to the "illuminati" debate. We are all in the dark, and relying on hunches. My only source is my own experience, which is possibly tainted with programmed false leads, false memories and what not. I am sure others have the same experience. Therapists should have more info if they treated more than one victim. My programming never had the term illuminati, but when I read some of the more bizarre springmeyer accounts, it rang a bell. what bell ? how much of it ? why ? I dno't know. What I know for sure, is the ONLY reason I was victimized is POLITICS, so I can't say this is a perversion, although to some extent, for a family to fall into that ditch, requries predisposition to certain criminal conduct in the personal domain. So we have a rather new, complex type of crime. The technology is one aspect (where therapists are required to step in) but the usage, funding, context IMHO is stricly political, don't know if it illuminati like activity, but certainly it is heavily supported, systematized, by political groups all over. Is it like torture ? not sure. Torture is political per se, here we have a combination or a melting down between the political/state action and private sphere/markets. It is the crime of the century, and involved all the new ambiguities in political science and melting down of old dividions bn private/public, private/political, local/international. we need, perhaps, to develop new terms, new tools to deal with it. Certainly, it is a violation of human rights. Torture has a very solid, documented even LEGAL history as an institution, it is more or less like slavery, has been a lawful practice of government, and now there is an attempt to make it illegal. But SRA ? more so, MC ? we don't have records of that in historical files. We have some of it, SRA as satanic pagan ritual, or sorcery, and religious human sacrifice, but I think when we are saying SRA these days, we are referring to a different phenomenon. or are we ?

by **televisionchild** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 7:34 pm

Biao & ir -- Thanks to this discussion, I feel better able to approach the question of Ill matters with a wider range of uncertainty as well as a deeper contextual mindframe overall with which to even approach this question. Y'all have helped me leap out of my own binary thought tendencies, so thanks. & ir -- I'm don't know your background, but it sounds severe. The questions you've put forth here about the crossover between these apparently distinct contexts further helps me refine my uncertainty while remaining open to any and all possibilities. Just being able to ask these questions seriously is a big step forward for me.

by ir » Sat Jan 21, 2006 5:44 pm

televisionchild I hope you are not "into" this issue by virtue of personal victimization, but from purely theoretical interest. My situation is quite "typical" to MC testimonies, including the unbelivable duration of the abuse.

by **televisionchild** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 7:01 pm

hey ir, I have not suffered MC or RA directly myself, so I am trying to tread as carefully into this subject as possible. I do have some damage from a crashed out early childhood, as well as some damage from a bad guru in my 20's, and these may at least sensitize me (at best) indirectly to the realities of which you speak from direct experience. I do find the discussions here at RI about MC/RA to be extraordinary in their depth, vulnerability, and raw truth-telling power. Somehow this humanizes me beyond my own isolation from said personal difficulties, while widening my scope of the horrorific reality of organized abuse in the world.

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moethodical appraoch needed ?

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