The murder of attorney Daniel Horowitz's wife gets bizarre

by **AcalanesStudent** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 12:04 pm

<<It was the most blatant Hearstian yellow journalism I've seen in a daily paper in many years.>> -I go to Acalanes and i'm doing everything i can to help with this just because even if scott did commit this crime (which i don't think he did) this is going to set the precident for EVERY other gothic kid who does anything. If he is found not guilty, the media and their disgusting greed, has already damaged his life. I don't know how to explain my feeling when i saw this, but our school news paper had an article discussing all of the horrible events that happened during october and i believe the line was "how would the country have felt if they had released this picture?" and it was a picture of scott wearing a regular NON BLACK tshirt with our Ultamite Frisbee Club's icon on it as hes playing a game of frisbee at school... yeah psycho right.... i wish the news had gotten ahold of this MORE RECENT photo. <<Is there any real evidence that this young man committed the crime? How sure is the country that a 16-year-old kid did this? Why are we blindly accepting the word of his classmates as truthful and objective? Why aren't we hearing from adults who knew him?>> If there is DNA then this case is over, regardless of why it was in the house. It does seem very odd to me that this non confrontational kid even could have murdered a woman who was fit, knew martial arts, and was half a foot taller than him AND has managed to stump the country with his first murder yet alone violent act. People are accepting the word of his classmates because they are the ones who went on the news, afterall, theres no better way to show off that expensive new skirt and ugg boots that their rich ass parents bought them. All of these different opinions of scott from his "friends" are different opinions of his peers. His friends aren't talking... why should the country believe them anyways when they aren't even accepted by the majority of our schooll? Worse, these camera-starved kids have parents, parents that are elligible to be on a jury and a change of renue wont really do much. As for the adults that knew him, they have spoken, or some have. They are the ones saying "I just dont believe scott could have done this." unfortunatley they just get mixed up with the parents of the camera-starved kids who say "oh no Mr.Teacher, little billys tardies should be excused because little billy is special." The teachers have decided NOT to talk to the media, i think this was a good idea, the students parents wouldn't want their special child in a teachers class with a teacher that considered scott their favorite student... For those of you who don't live in lafayette or don't know what Acalanes is like, it's honestly Substance vs. shine... and shine tends to win. <<story keeps changing. very very very strange.>> yeah, i agree, and not many people care/notice. A confrontation gone wrong with scott and pamela; so why did he conveniently have gloves? Scott mistook her for the neighbor who hit his dog; so why would he murder someone when he was vegan and very against the harm of ANY animal? He worshiped the devil; more of a "lets get a rise out of the rich self absorbed kids". Having spoken to him, even though it be very few times, i'd rather be trapped on an island with him than these reporters.

by **Dreams End** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 3:35 pm

Welcome, AcalaneStudent! I hope there are more students like you out there. I don't know all the details of the case but if you look around this site, you'll see that there's a lot of similar weirdness out there, especially right now. I don't know how well you know Scott. I'd be curious about his parents, for example. Or other adults who may have come into his orbit. Some of us think that it's actually possible to manipulate people psychologically in ways that can cause them not only to do such things but to have no memory of it later. I don't know what Scott's viewpoint on all this is, but this "goth" students going violently berzerko theory didn't really work for me at Columbine and I'd be suspicious of it here. If you knew him well... Can you say much about his parents or other adults as I mentioned at the top? Did he ever seem to have mood swings or seem like a "different person" from time to time? Did he ever have conversations with any of you and then completely forget about them? Was he on any anti-depressants? Anything delusional? Voices in the head, etc? Any indication of abuse in the home? Any association with any kind of "white power" type folks? (Aryan Nation for example?) Was he actually involved with any occult groups...particularly groups that were organized by adults and not just some other kids experimenting? (Don't worry, we don't automatically hold that against him, but there ARE some bad groups out there.) My curiosity is to see , should it turns out that the evidence is clear he actually committed the crime, if he was manipulated or controlled by others, as this crime was simply too convenient in the way it disrupted another trial on a similar theme and raised many of our suspicions around here. Keep questioning and trying to force some balance from the media. Let us know how it's going. If you become convinced of his innocence or that he may have been manipulated in some way, and would like to report that back here, I'm sure we'll do what little we can to help spread the word.

by **Asta** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:16 pm

<a href="http://www.courttv.com/news/horowitz/photogallery/index.html?curPhoto=1">www.courttv.com/news/horo...curPhoto=1</a> Keep clicking til you see the Dream House and trailer. Images help me sort out the information we are fed. The Vitale murder bothers me on many levels. All of which I won't go into here, but off the cuff... For some reason the starkness of the Dream House in the middle of such bleak terrain is disturbing. It's so extreme, like the image of the house in the movie "Giant" where the mansion is sitting in the middle of NoWhere Texas. Who are we trying to impress? Jett Rink in the shack next door? From what I understand, the neighbors pretty much live in shacks. I found a blog from someone who seems to have initmate knowledge of the locale. See <a href="http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/archives/cat_the_murder_of_pamela_vitale.html">www.planethuff.com/darksi...itale.html</a> The author mentions that Scott Dyleski lived in a lean-to. I also didn't know that his transition to Goth came about after his sister died. Hmmm. Anyone know what that was about? I sure don't. Where were all the construction people when Vitale was murdered? Had they been given the day off? I think Horowitz had something to do with this, he seemed too anxious to talk to the media. I read one excerpt where he exclaimed, I can't talk right now, I can't talk right now, there are no words!" Well, that sounded kinda wordy to me. Strange strange story.

by **hmm** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 1:53 pm

i posted this to a new thread which went unnoticed so i'm reposting it here. <a href="http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/breaking_news/13227648.htm">www.mercurynews.com/mld/m...227648.htm</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Posted on Mon, Nov. 21, 2005 Judge makes gag order permanent in Dyleski case MARTINEZ - A Contra Costa Superior Court judge issued a permanent gag order Monday that prohibits attorneys, witnesses, investigators, court staff and public officials from speaking publicly about the case of a 17-year-old accused of killing a Lafayette woman. "The atmosphere thus far in this proceeding has been highly charged leading to an environment that, if continued, makes it difficult at best to keep courtroom decorum and preserve a fair trial," Judge David Flinn wrote in his order. ~snip~ Prosecutor Harold Jewett and Dyleski's attorney, deputy public defender Ellen Leonida, argued in favor of continuing a temporary gag order that Flinn issued Oct. 27. An attorney representing a Bay Area newspaper asked the judge to lift the order, saying the press coverage will not hinder the selection of a fair jury. An attorney representing Gloria Allred, who represents a potential witness in the Dyleski case, argued a gag would hinder Allred from protecting her client's reputation.<hr></blockquote> <a href="http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/news/nation/13189758.htm">www.centredaily.com/mld/c...189758.htm</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr> Jewett began his arguments by submitting a 2-inch-thick stack of newspaper and television stories printed from the Internet -- which the clerk marked "Exhibit A." He argued that the national and local press have made statements based on rumors, citing the examples of Dyleski using Satanism and a theory that Dyleski killed Vitale because he was upset over the death of his dog. "The people are not aware of any evidence related to Satanism," Jewett said. "That's highly inflammatory." Leonida agreed, saying that a gag order would prevent gossip and leaked information from flowing to the media, which "presents it as true."<hr></blockquote> <a href="http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1130499499412&rss=newswire">www.law.com/jsp/article.j...s=newswire</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Will Legal Pundit Be 'Lightning Rod' in Vitale Murder Case? Julie O'Shea The Recorder 10-31-2005 News that legal pundit Gloria Allred has been retained to represent a potential witness in the Pamela Vitale murder case has some wondering whether the Los Angeles attorney is getting involved for the wrong reasons. In a move guaranteed to bring the case even more attention, Allred is reportedly providing pro bono legal representation to the girlfriend of 16-year-old murder suspect Scott Dyleski.<hr></blockquote> a gag order seems like the best way to stop us speculating...

by **hmm** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:03 pm

it seems dyleski's mother has been freed on condition she testifies against dyleski. <a href="http://crime.allinfoabout.com/news/vitale/motherreleased102805.html">crime.allinfoabout.com/ne...02805.html</a> and oddly enough there has been a second murder in Lafayette (pop. 29,000),2 months after the vitale murder and one or two days after dyleski was in court to hear the date of his preliminary hearing <a href="http://www.insidebayarea.com/argus/localnews/ci_3293548">www.insidebayarea.com/arg...ci_3293548</a> <a href="http://www.insidebayarea.com/sanmateocountytimes/localnews/ci_3301744">www.insidebayarea.com/san...ci_3301744</a> <a href="http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/news/local/crime_courts/13395917.htm">www.contracostatimes.com/...395917.htm</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Vuori's killing comes just two months after the slaying of 52-year-old Lafayette resident Pamela Vitale, who was killed in her Hunsaker Canyon Road home on Oct. 15. Scott Dyleski, 16 at the time of the killing, has been charged with her murder. Vitale's death marked the first slaying in Lafayette since March 1998, when 46-year-old Janet Daher was found stabbed and strangled in her home. Three men were convicted in her killing. "This is very unusual for us," Fisher said. <hr></blockquote> a funny co-incidence,it seems that horowitz defended one of the accused in the other murder 7 years ago. Coincidentally, Lafayette's last homicide seven years ago is now one of Horowitz's cases. <a href="http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/12931027.htm">www.contracostatimes.com/...931027.htm</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>A jury in 2001 convicted Lee Snyder, Joseph Perez, Jr. and Maury O'Brien in the killing of 46-year-old Janet Daher, a mother of two, in her Rose Lane home in March 1998. Horowitz is representing O'Brien, who testified against the other two men. Perez received the death penalty, Snyder life in prison without parole. O'Brien agreed to serve 25 years to life with the possibility of parole in exchange for his testimony. Court records show that Horowitz stepped in after the convictions, saying that O'Brien got an unfair plea deal and poor legal representation. O'Brien is still in County Jail in Martinez, attending court hearings to reach a new plea agreement.<hr></blockquote> i am not saying any of this is connected just that it might be worth watching,i find it odd that a 90 year old peace-activist gets raped and murdered in a small town. There is also one other suspicious death in Lafayette.. <a href="http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/12/12/MNGG3G6SBD68.DTL">sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...6SBD68.DTL</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>"She's the sweetest, most gentle person," a relative said today when reached Monday at the victim's home. The relative, who didn't want her name used, said Vuori participated in peace marches in San Francisco until she was 87 years old. ~snip~ On Dec. 4, Doug Murphy, a former news reporter and anchorman for CBS-5 TV, died of smoke inhalation in a fire at his Lafayette home. The cause of the fire remains under investigation, Contra Costa Fire Marshal Richard Carpenter said Monday.<hr></blockquote>

by **hmm** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:32 pm

oops.forgot this in my previous post. this attorney makes the case for reasonable doubt and takes a look at horowitz's behaviour since the murder and how that could be used by dyleski's defense. i would like to point out that this article was written before details of the autopsy report were publicised,it was rumoured vitale was only wearing briefs and a t-shirt,in the autopsy report it states she was wearing a skirt aswell.The first part of the article leans heavily on reports of vitale's state of dress to suggest the killer most likely knew vitale. <a href="http://writ.news.findlaw.com/commentary/20051024_spilbor.html">writ.news.findlaw.com/com...ilbor.html</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>The Murder of Pamela Vitale, Famed Defense Attorney Daniel Horowitz's Wife: Though a Suspect is Now in Custody, He May Get Off on A Reasonable Doubt Defense By JONNA M. SPILBOR ---- Monday, Oct. 24, 2005 ~snip~ How a Skilled Defender Could Raise Reasonable Doubt With Respect to Dyleski How might a talented defense attorney suggest that Horowitz, not Dyleski, could have been the killer - or, at least, that Horowitz's possible guilt was never sufficiently considered, to eliminate reasonable doubt? Easily. The attorney would start with the suggestion that police gave Horowitz preferential treatment. Police allowed Horowitz to sit in the "juvenile room" at the police station, not a standard interrogation room. And at one point, when Horowitz had to use the restroom, he was allowed to wash his hands - but were they examined for possible evidence first? It seems not - meaning crucial evidence might literally have gone down the drain. Finally, there is no evidence that police asked Horowitz to take a lie detector test, as is often standard procedure in murder investigations involving a spouse. And then, in addition to the suggestion of preferential treatment by the police, there is Horowitz's own odd behavior - which he himself described in interviews. (In the hours and days following Vitale's murder, Horowitz seemed to be an ever-present staple on some of the heavier- hitting legal talk shows.) Horowitz said that he touched his deceased wife's neck at least twice, and spent time at the scene holding her and telling her she was beautiful. Grief takes strange forms, but Horowitz's actions may have tainted the crime scene. If so, that might raise reasonable doubt. What if Dyleski's prints aren't found on Vitale's body, but Horowitz's are? In the absence of DNA evidence, that fact alone might get Dyleski acquitted. Horowitz held his wife for a long time -- rather than searching the trailer home and adjoining construction site for her killer. Did that suggest that he knew the perpetrator wasn't in the house or nearby? Moreover, Horowitz did not immediately alert the police. Rather, he says, he started to call 911, threw the phone down, and shortly afterward, dialed the non-emergency police number. A sharp defense lawyer will make much hay with facts like these. How could he know there was no longer an emergency, unless he knew that he himself was the perpetrator and thus the perpetrator was not at large? How could one dial the non-emergency police number if one knew a Satanic ritual killer was at large? Why Horowitz Should Have Cooperated, But Not Gone on Television Horowitz's opting to go on talk shows may also, in itself, alienate jurors. Jurors expect bereaved spouses to cooperate with police to the greatest extent possible; Scott Peterson's seeming failure to do so was held against him. But Horowitz went far beyond cooperation. Jurors who would have kept their own grief more private, may distrust him for sharing his with the public. Essentially, the talented defense attorney Daniel Horowitz, in the days that have passed since his wife's horrible death, did everything a defense lawyer tells his own clients not to do! He talked. And talked. And went on television. And did so without a lawyer by his side. <hr></blockquote>

by **AcalaneStudent** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 7:52 am

"I don't know how well you know Scott. I'd be curious about his parents, for example. Or other adults who may have come into his orbit. " -his parents are VERY questionable to me... He lived with another family, as im sure everyone is aware of. I went and spoke with one of the members of this second family and while it answered a lot of questions.... i'm not sure how acurate the answers were. I don't want to release any details of what she told me, but she was VERY quick to give me specifics.. as in unreleased 'facts' about the case and what went on that morning. This woman and I had never met or spoken before this time and she was a little too willing to speak to me about Scott and his Mother. "Can you say much about his parents or other adults as I mentioned at the top?" -Like I mentioned above, they just all seem too quick to talk and both families don't seem to support eachother. However, I'm positive this is an extremely difficult time for everyone so it could just be shock. "Did he ever seem to have mood swings or seem like a "different person" from time to time?" -everytime i've seen him, he acted in the same way. He acted differently towards his friends compared to how he'd act in class or talking to someone who didn't know him, but I think that is how everyone is. He was always polite, he had a lot of common sense, and he was not like the typical Acalanes student, but that is not necessarily a good thing or a bad thing. Personally, I think it is a good thing he was not like the typical student... I'm not trying to bash the typical students, I just happen to give a little more respect to people that realize there is more to life than the homecoming dance or other fairly meaningless high school distractions. "Did he ever have conversations with any of you and then completely forget about them? Was he on any anti-depressants?" -I didn't speak with him on a regular basis so I don't know if he forgot whatever we may have spoken about. I also do not know if he was on any anti-depressants. "Anything delusional? Voices in the head, etc?" -I know he would occasionally drink Absinthe with his friends, but from personal experience, I never had any delusions or voices in my head during or after drinking Absinthe. I can't speak for him, but I know many people who regularly consume this drink and they dont have any "flash backs" or any problems after consumption. Scott and his friends were not the only people in our school to consume this drink so it's not as if it made them act different from other students. "Any indication of abuse in the home? Any association with any kind of "white power" type folks? (Aryan Nation for example?)" -I do not know if there was any abuse in the home, but i didn't get that vibe. Scott was very accepting of people and was friendly towards anyone that was friendly to him, I'm 100% Mexican and I surely look the part, he wasn't overly nice or overly rude to me, he just treated me as a person. "Was he actually involved with any occult groups...particularly groups that were organized by adults and not just some other kids experimenting? (Don't worry, we don't automatically hold that against him, but there ARE some bad groups out there.)" - I dont think he was. I think he dressed like he wanted to and listened to the kind of music he enjoyed. Not all of his friends were into the "goth" look, now they weren't exactly wearing Abercrombie or anything like that, but they dressed simple. "My curiosity is to see , should it turns out that the evidence is clear he actually committed the crime, if he was manipulated or controlled by others, as this crime was simply too convenient in the way it disrupted another trial on a similar theme and raised many of our suspicions around here." -I'm very curious too. I don't think speaking with his family will help, i think just looking at all the evidence (or what we're allowed to see) and looking at cases that may be related is all anyone can do. "Keep questioning and trying to force some balance from the media. Let us know how it's going. If you become convinced of his innocence or that he may have been manipulated in some way, and would like to report that back here, I'm sure we'll do what little we can to help spread the word." -I will be questioning for a long time I think. I have looked at many case files and read pages of statements and facts and I just hope that eventually something will click and this will be figured out. I will update with what I know even though it may not be much. Sorry for whatever typos or other errors there are in what I typed, its late.

by **Dreams End** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 1:06 pm

Thanks for the update. Keep us informed...sure doesn't sound like someone who would do this sort of thing.

by **hmm** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 4:54 pm

"his parents are VERY questionable to me... He lived with another family, as im sure everyone is aware of. I went and spoke with one of the members of this second family and while it answered a lot of questions.... i'm not sure how acurate the answers were. I don't want to release any details of what she told me, but she was VERY quick to give me specifics.. as in unreleased 'facts' about the case and what went on that morning. This woman and I had never met or spoken before this time and she was a little too willing to speak to me about Scott and his Mother." its "funny" AcalaneStudent said this because as i was reading about the case (as a complete outsider) and i came to the same conclusion regarding the Curiel family.Its weird to me how willing they seem to be to go along with him being guilty considering they are close to the dyleski family in many ways.The dyleski's live in their home,they used to own a restaurant together. but then a member of this family is the source of the information that the reason scott might have killed vitale is his dog being killed. It was on computer of a member of the Curiel families that the hydroponic equipment was allegedly ordered and tht was the first reason given for his having killed her. the dog rumour is specifically mentioned by the DA when he asks for a gag in this case due to speculation in the press. this thread is interesting if a bit long at 9223 posts and counting: <a href="http://forums.contracostatimes.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=kr-cct_central&msg=14.1&maxT=2">forums.contracostatimes.c...4.1&maxT=2</a> my impression after looking at the first 450 or so posts is: 1. anyone who knew pam vitale had nothing but good to say about her 2. anyone who claimed to know horowitz had nothing good to say about him (except for pam's son) 3. speculation up to scotts arrest all centered on horowitz 4. after scott's arrest people came forward to support scott and contradict the media's portrayal of him other odd things i noticed while reading up on the case.. susan polks son Eli reported a burglary at his home on the night of the vitale murder. <a href="http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9740648/from/RL.2/">msnbc.msn.com/id/9740648/from/RL.2/</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr> BRUCE GERSTMAN, “CONTRA COSTA TIMES” (via phone): Absolutely. Yes, I spoke with Eli Polk, that‘s the middle son of Susan Polk who is taking her side during this whole trial and he told me that someone had tried to break into his home by taking off a sliding—like a sliding door on the outside. He made reports to the police. They took fingerprints. At this point, you know there are no confirmed connections between anything about that. But that he did arrive home Sunday morning to find that. <hr></blockquote> he was also recently accused of battery of this girlfriend. <a href="http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/10/26/BAGGAFE51V1.DTL">sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...FE51V1.DTL</a> Eli is the son who is thought to be the only child of the 3 going to testify in her favour.

by **AcalaneStudent** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 6:26 am

"-susan polks son Eli reported a burglary at his home on the night of the vitale murder. -he was also recently accused of battery of this girlfriend. -Eli is the son who is thought to be the only child of the 3 going to testify in her favour." I also found Eli questionable and I came across the following things: *Gabriel Polk (the youngest son) had a restraining order filed against Eli. It states that Eli was not to harass or attack Gabriel or have any contact with him. Gabriel had recieved an e-mail that was threatening in nature and states that "Eli has been in custody and detained for violence in the past. He has spent 1/2 year in juvenile haul and 1/2 year at byron boys ranch in an incident where he severley injured someone in a fight." Gabriel did not tell Eli he was applying for a restraining order because "I am afraid for my life, I have already been threatened or I have already been harmed." *In statements Eli wrote the following regarding their parents divorce: 'My dad is completley not a sane person.' 'I would be extremely happy if the court gave my mother custody of my brother and I because it would save our lives.' 'I hope the court will not let my father get away with what he is trying to do.' then in a later statement: 'Eli reports that he could live with either parent but leans towards living with father because, ''mother has a serious problem." Eli says that at times mother gets really irrational and makes up stuff about father.' <a href="http://www.sen.ca.gov/sor/reports/REPORTS_BY_SUBJ/PUBLIC_SAFETY_JUDICIARY/PELLETGUNREPORT.pdf">www.sen.ca.gov/sor/report...REPORT.pdf</a> "Arrested at his home was 18-year-old Eli Polk, a youth with a criminal record. Police learned Polk had been shooting toward passing cars from the deck of his home overlooking the street below earlier that same day. His weapon was a Winchester 1000 pellet gun, capable of discharging lead pellets at 1,000 feet per second, developing more striking power than many classes of handgun firearms." "The pellet penetrated two inches of tissue into my neck, stopping just short of my spine. Two hours of surgery were required to remove the pellet. X-rays show I was lucky that the pellet missed the carotid artery. Four months later, nerve damage remains and motion is limited on the left side of my face and left arm and shoulder." The record of the Polk family is a long one. Every member of the family has had some part in one court case or another involving the family. I'm not saying Eli killed Vitale because I THINK I remember reading somewhere that he has an airtight alibi. However, looking at which family members sided with who and how those "alliances" have changed dramatically, it just makes me think they are all really on the same team. Every detail just makes this seem too planned. Even if the Polk's are in no way involved in this murder of Pamela Vitale, I find it very sad that even with this amazing information, that apparently anyone can access in any Contra Costa County Courthouse, most of the county is still quick to say that Gothic-Satanic-Druggie-Scott Dyleski (with no record) killed Vitale.

The murder of attorney Daniel Horowitz's wife gets bizarre

what a month.

Re: what a month.

Some photos for illustrative purposes

Re: Actually - Judge makes gag order permanent

Re: some updates and a new murder in Lafayette

court-tv commentator:reasonable doubt for dyleski

Re: what a month

Re: what a month

Re: what a month

Eli Polk

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