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Re: the hunting/gathering life...

PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 12:07 am
by banned
...I once wrote a little piece for another blog comparing the life of the average mountain gorilla to that of the average denizen of Silicon Valley. I can't find it now but mainly it said:<br><br>Here is how the day goes for Mr. Gorilla.<br><br>He wakes when he is rested, in a bed of leaves. He takes a poop in the leaves and then he and his mates in his group stretch, do some grooming, and then stroll off in search of breakfast, which consists of bananas and other low hanging fruit. They mosey around the territory thereafter getting some fresh air, sit a spell, do more grooming, nurse babies, the little ones play. Then it's time to go find some more fruit for lunch, followed by a nice nap. The afternoon goes pretty much the same, and when the sun goes down, Mr. Gorilla curls up on a new bed of leaves and slips into sweet dreams.<br><br>Here is Mr. Smith, who works in tech support for SUN Microsystems.<br><br>Mr. Smith doesn't make an enormous salary, therefore he cannot afford to live on the Peninsula, or even the East Bay. He lives in a condo in Livermore that has 200 units that all look alike except for the welcome mats, and has a several-hour commute to work in heavy traffic. When he gets to work in a closed building under fluorescent lights, he goes into his tiny cubicle and begins answering the phone calls one after the other from annoyed and annoying customers who range from the moronic who need to be told everything from "Is it plugged in?" to the knowledgeable but irate who can't believe SUN no longer cares much about a dozen year old SPARCstation. He sucks down several cups of coffee to get through the morning, doesn't have time for lunch, only for Doritos and a Red Bull from the machine in the hall around 3. He works some overtime and then gets into his gas guzzling SUV to suck exhaust fumes for hours on the way back to Livermore where he finds his wife, who has to work a second job to keep up their lifestyle, already two sheets to the wind. They eat a "meal" of preservative laden tasteless food in plastic heated by microwaves, she takes her wine to the family room to watch a chick flick and he heads for his office with a beer to download porn and flirt with someone online who claims to be an 18 year old Hooters waitress named Ashleigh but is actually a 60 year old transvestite named Irving. By the time he stumbles to bed and passes out, he gets barely 4 hours of restless sleep before it's time to do it all again. For all this he gets a paycheck that is gone by the time he cashes it for bills, including minimum payments on a dozen credit cards which, at the rate he's going, will take 760 years to pay off.<br><br>OK, you get to pick if you want to join Mr. Gorilla's band of merry anthropoids, or take the next cookiecutter condo and cubicle beside Mr. Smith.<br><br>Which will it be, and why? <p></p><i></i>

the Mayan option:

PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 1:06 am
by Homeless Halo
Have to go with Gorillas. Couldn't do cubicle work. I'd kill someone, probably myself.<br><br>Seriously, the hunting and gathering would be a far better prospect. Educated humans would be even better off than the apes in the wild. IF you have a dog, too, you don't need to worry about anything.<br><br>I've been considering it, even if the world doesn't get "worse". I'm planning on leaving if it just stays like this for too long.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>

Re: "dry roof over my head" options

PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 2:22 am
by robertdreed
Consider Ted Kaczynski, with his spartan cabin in rural Montana. <br><br>I know a small town not too far from where I'm presently living where it's possible to buy 1/4-1 acre of undeveloped property for maybe $1500-$5000, on subdivided lots. Without any water, sewer, or electrical hook-ups, it's technically illegal to use that property as a homestead. But that didn't stop some folks from doing exactly that- parking small trailers or building small shelters out of scrap wood, pallets, and wood shipping crates, and adding various primitive but effective ways of meeting their needs for electricity, heating, cooking, and latrine amenities. Presumably, as long as the residents keep a low profile and don't splice into power lines or handle fire carelessly, they aren't bothered by the handful of officers and squad cars that comprised the local police jurisdiction. The "low-tech housing" residents often live next door to neighbors who have houses built more or less to code, and with all of the necessary hookups. And as far as I could tell, it was live and let live. Mind you, the people living like this weren't derelicts. They most often had pickup trucks, tools, and other productive implements, and they usually spent most of the daylight hours during the week away from their property, pursuing gainful employment. It was a <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>pied de terre</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> for them. There are lots of places in this country that it's still possible to do it. You just have to think outside the box...and inside the shipping crate;^)<br><br>"banned", I enjoyed your description of living so sparely in that "mother-in-law" apartment. I once knew a girl in Berkeley who lived in a similar circumstance, in the back of a house that had been subdivided into a couple of other cell-like rooms with sheetrock. She had what apparently used to be the shed or storage room attached to the garage, the space of which had been converted into other windowless, cell-like rooms attached to a hallway made of unpainted sheetrock that led into the main house for access to its bathroom and kitchen facilities. Who lived there? Berkeley undergraduate students. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=>robertdreed</A> at: 11/1/05 3:44 am<br></i>

Homeless pooh

PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 6:35 am
by jenz
Don't 'specially want to be a dream buster here, but I do know several people obliged to live rough for months on end, have taken time to learn about the situations which many of the individuals and organisations who try to ameliorate the conditions of their lives confront, and its not all bananas.<br><br>Likewise, banned, your description of the granny flat did sound luxurious compared to what many of those just one step above the homeless often have to call home.<br><br>I tried to do a pecking order of worst pads I have seen, and sometimes stayed in. decided it wasn't a question of spoiled merkans, cos top grunge hole was in New York. the wag who owned the building had it named after George's place. Currently, my dog has it better. <br><br>second, I put one in Berlin, mostly occupied by Turkish guest workers, who at that time, were creating for Germany the economic conditions that enabled Thatcheroids to slag off British workers as lazy good for nothings who ought to be competitive. babies cried all night there and I don't blame them.<br><br>third, I had to put one of the 'hotels' where HPU in London put anyone they can't avoid accepting responsibility for and leaving to tough it out sleeping in phone boxes, doorways etc. In this case, mostly those leaving psych wards after a long stay. This place had it over the other 2 in that you did get your room, with walls all the way to the floor, there was heating, and the shared bogs and showers worked in a desultory spasmodic kind of way. There were kind of locks on the doors but the crack dealers had no difficulty with them.<br>I can best sum up the soul less apathetic impersonal void it was by trying to recreate a conversation I had with a man back on the wards.<br>Man (through medication slur) I was all right you know, when I left last time. <br>Me. nodding, hopefully sympathetically Hmmm<br>Man. they put me in (name of 'hotel') I was there for 18 months. You maybe don't know what that's like there?<br> ( Looks at me like I wouldn't believe it anyway)<br>Me. Yeah, if you weren't mad when you went in.. (blush, shut up quick realising it not pc to say mad when speaking to patients about their illness )<br><br><br>Man (and laughing chorus of other chain smoking medicated patients) You'd sure be mad when you came out.<br><br>sometimes I daydream about what I can expect when my life crunches to the bottom of the spiral its on now, and muse about how I might stay sane or human in those kind of places. Unfortunately I can't avoid knowing there's not even enough banana trees to keep the great apes from extinction, and what's left of them get preyed on for meat, amusement, etc. Still, when it happens, I'll try to keep enough back from my dole to visit the internet caf and let ya know how it goes! <p></p><i></i>

Re: pooh poohing

PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 12:55 pm
by israelirealities
HH,<br>With your descriptions, I am packing my stuff and coming over, and let's go to the wilderness and live on game. It sounds so fresh, so right, so exciting ! I don't mind the minor inconvenience as long as you keep on talking endlessly about everything and support it with foot notes to books nobody reads. <br><br>This way I shake off the "them", I get to hear about Thelema and survival kits, and stay with someone who is biologically unable to be mad, emotional, or...even just sleep. I get a robot like Schwatzenagger in the Terminator, who turns out to be a feminist, too. You will fend off the wild animals and the government and I will sing and make warm sweaters out of bear fur or something, then we can actually settle in some remote nature place and create a community, and then we'll have to run away again, etc. etc. and then I'll die of old age anyway, and you will sell the rights to the script and become a millionnaire !.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>

bear fur

PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 1:47 pm
by jenz
knitted? nah, stick to singing <p></p><i></i>


PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 7:24 pm
by Homeless Halo
It could just be me. I like it outdoors. Although, I was young in a number of very "unsettled" places(Alaska and New Mexico have one thing in common: a lack of people). <br><br>Feel free to stay and take your chances in the camps. It worked so well for those who did last time.<br><br>BTW, Bear Fur wouldn't need to be knitted, you could skin the bear and just wear it after some drying, although I'd sun and smoke it, personally. If you keep the skin, it will be much warmer. Although, we have a shortage of most bears, there are still a decent number of deer and goats, which make for good eating, during the winter. If you were in the desert, I suggest snakes, although they're a little stringy. Arachnids have lots of protein. Water is more difficult, in the American southwest, your best option would probably be cacti.<br><br>You are not obligated to take any of this seriously, but realize that I take it very seriously. Perhaps you haven't seen the camps. I doubt they'll go to waste.<br><br>At present, I'm more than content to live in the city. There is a car jacking every few minutes here. Several people are murdered in the area for their clothes everyday. We have the highest disparity in the industrialized world between our rich and poor, in this city. We have more homeless, a large portion of whom are single mothers with more than one child. There are people who have lived on the streets their entire lives. I've never been without a place to stay for more than a few days, except on purpose. <br><br>(I'm not a "feminist" I'm an individualist, females ARE individuals, so maybe in that sense)<br><br>I read books no one else reads, I was unaware that anyone other than DHS cared about this. I started reading "strange" books when I was very young. I'd begun to run out of normal subjects. I will read about almost anything. If you like, I could show you my recommended list, it is more comprehensive.<br><br>I find it astonishing that educated people find the idea of living "naturally" to be so difficult to swallow. I suppose, in this day, that such ideas must seem archaic. I think however, this is why our society stopped teaching these things, which would have been the first you'd have learned from 3mil BCE - 8000 BCE. Maybe we don't know how to live in the world, because we've been trained like pets to live with the pharoh and build his pyramid.<br><br>The point is, that you shouldn't be willing to trade your life and/or freedom for the base comfort you've received for your collaboration. <br><br> <p></p><i></i>


PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 7:38 pm
by sw


PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 7:45 pm
by Homeless Halo
If the worst case scenario happens, I might loot a Radio Shack while the rest of them are lining up for bread at the grocery. <br><br>With some spare batteries, and a gutting of the equipment I already own, I could Macguyver myself a connection to take with me, if I really wanted.<br><br>And although I don't register sensation properly, I know how to read a thermometer, and I know when I'm "supposed" to feel cold, that is, when my cells are in danger of becoming damaged from the temps.<br><br>But if the WCS happened, none of you would be here to talk to anyway. But don't worry about me, if they didn't get me in the first couple days, you'd eventually know where I was.<br><br>By WCS I mean, anything utterly catastrophic from the mildy Horrible (alien invasion, demonic horders, concentration camps etc) to the very Horrible (zombie infestation, Hilary Clinton, etc).<br><br>If WCS ever goes down, I have no intention of sitting here and talking about it until the power goes off.<br> <p></p><i></i>

Re: well

PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 8:05 pm
by israelirealities
(Jenz, thanks, i do prefer singing but my spiritual supervisors tell me I need to do some "hands on" work, as in developing dexterity, for some reason. hence, knitting fantasies).<br><br>HH, my dear. I meant no offense, or ridicule at all. Please let me know where the camps are, and I'll know what to watch for here. You are totally right about the priorities, comfort/freedom...this is something tricky sometimes. I don't shy from physical hardship, but in Israel, now, moving or staying is the same. As I told you, this is one big camp already. I think detroit is as hard as it gets in terms of urban horror. Where I live there is no carjacking, and actually there is close to zero street violence crimes against ordinary people (there is some crime among drug dealers, they never touch others, and its pretty rare too). No rape, robbery, murder, assault etc...<br>It is a mixed arab-jewish neighborhood, very loud, very messy, poor mostly but with the "art students and artistic yuppies" renovating old appartments. I am about 200 feet from the beach, and there are no highrises and very few homeless (I would say most of them are of the mental kind that just won't go home). Quite a lot of drug users but not the kind that kill or rob, but the kind that keep stealing you bike and your car radio.Still have horses, goats, chicken, donkeys roaming free in the yards and near the roads, this is not a typical Israeli place, so its Ok at the moment, but the police already think there's too much freedom here, so I am expecting changes. It's a strange place...for the better. Main problem in Israel now - 1/ government is nazifyed daily. 2/ the arabs are soon going to be fed up with this outrage and will come for their lands 3/ the US seems to have made this into a huge camp for human experimentation, with the IDF serving as the guards and the brokers. who knows what we are facing from that department...I just don't see how going out and living in a field, will help. <p></p><i></i>

woodward's rough draft

PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 8:27 pm
by Homeless Halo
(Detroit/Windsor is designed as a large scale ritual/occult complex to exert powerful tendencies on the planet, like DC)<br><br>IR:<br>(Dexterity: Legos)<br><br>Urban horror is maybe too strong a word, it isn't a constant siege, but a slow attrition. The vast majority of our "drug crime" is non-violent, and since we have so much violent crime, most of the NV drug crime gets ignored. I've seen police let underaged kids drive drunk with drugs in their pockets before, as long as they didn't have guns or crack. (I was in the car, exactly 1 year ago today)<br><br>Our organized crime got rid of a lot of the low level street criminals, hired or "removed" them. Not so many gangbangers today, in the downtown. The carjackings are worse though, and often needlessly violent. They have a habit of hitting people who are obviously lost and/or out of towners.<br><br>(I've seen an old lady from FLA get jacked about eight feet from my car. Let her use my phone/drove her to her son's house)<br><br>There are also great places. The DIA is one of the best art museums in the world, and the concert/music scene in Detroit is amazingly well developed.<br><br>In Redford, on the west side, 3/10 people are drug dealers. <br><br>In Michigan 3.5/10 people are users.<br><br>In Garden City/Westland/Inkster the cities share police to stem crime from slipping over into their area.<br><br>In Livonia, the police are fascist mobsters. Being "out" is a crime. Much of the detroit mob lives here. One of the safest suburbs, among the best public schools in America.<br><br>Two miles East, Detroit, some of the worst conditions in the first world are common.<br><br>If you follow pop culture, you could even find me. My road is called "McNichols" in the city, or "Six Mile".<br><br>In Dearborn and its attachments, is centered, they say, the largest middle eastern (mostly arab) community outside the middle east itself. Detroit gave Saddam Hussein the key to the city, in 1980.<br><br>In Ann Arbor, there are no laws. Marijuana gets you a fine, which means they don't "get" anyone. HASH BASH is here, and the "420" reference to marijuana began here. Every year in May we have a few million people in AA to do drugs. Don't take the freeway home, the state cops will get you, and don't go on campus, because you can still get kicked out of school and arrested on school property(zero tolerance). John Lennon and the city of Ann Arbor once broke a left wing protestor out of jail in AA ("ten for two"). We still have "weathermen" underground here. And the CIA too.<br><br>(I go to school here)<br><br>In my neighborhood, we have raccoons that run freely, and deer. Sometimes we see the odd pack of coyotes roaming along the flood zones and DZ. More animals than you might think. <br><br>Stray dogs outnumber the people.<br><br>If I was in Israel, as you are, I might consider planning to leave the area. I'm (pre) planning, personally, for the possibility that I may eventually be forced to leave America. Babylon the great is fallen. <br><br>"Come out of her"<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>

Re: woodward's rough draft

PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 8:41 pm
by robertdreed
Homeless Halo, I wouldn't mind a copy of your comprehensive book list.<br><br>You can put it over in "Data Dump." <p></p><i></i>


PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 8:46 pm
by israelirealities
Oh what a nice description, beats lonely planet...well, i'll tell you this much, wildlife in the USA is GREAT. Here there is none, and I miss "my" deer in Berkeley, and in Canada badly, this is actually too painful for me to indulge in the memories. And even the racoons and the mess in the garbage. My body is much happier in that landscape, I feel much more at home than here, in say, the Southern Gulf Islands, or the Bay Area of SF. You know where you feel good, its just spontaneous joy, just looking out the window. It feels right.<br><br>Israel is semi arrid to arrid, <br><br>Ann Arbor...some Israelis I know had their Phd"s there and say it is a very very good school. I, personally, never set foot in places where the water can actually turn solid from the temprature...can't stand it for more than 3 days token chrismas snowman etc. and then I die. The coldest place I lived in was DC, and it was bad enough for me in the winter. <br>Yes, generally speaking both the USA and ISrael are bad places to be these days. You seem young and agile, there is Australia (yummi)...and if you are not JEwish (you are not) then Canada is still OK. I loved it there, but the really nice areas, in BC, they don't like Jews, and more than that they really don't like Israelis, even if you keep bashing Israel from sunrise and they also don't like Arabs (except Iranians, cause they can get information from them and sell it to others, like your government for some money). But, I think you can still find peace and quiet in the USA, if you look hard enough and keep your senses with you. <br>Israel...well, that's another story. The only hope for this place is direct divine intervention, in the form of a flu that will kill the government officials only, or something. But, I am re connecting with my Jewish genes, namely, "we've seen empires rise and fall" (Leonard Cohn) in "I'm the Jew who wrote the bible". Its useless getting worked up about things you can do nothing about. <br>Are you in Ann Arbor University ? <p></p><i></i>


PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 8:47 pm
by Homeless Halo
Will do. I've been updating it recently anyway. I read at 2942 wpm(at last test), so I've gone through my fair share of books. Unfortunately, the list is in bad shape right now, no particular order, because I have too many books to keep them in order!<br><br>It'd be difficult to find a particular subject and/or author, but I'll start dropping them soon.<br><br>Maybe tonight.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>

jenz, I wasn't talking about homeless...

PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:56 am
by banned
...or people living in poverty in an industrialized society. <br><br>I was saying if we have to return to a more primitive state, I don't think it necessarily has to be bad. My ancestors emigrated to the "West" (western New York state, then the frontier) and build a cabin in what was then woods, and farmed, and 100 years later they still had a small farm, and bigger house, and a grocery store, and my grandfather was a butcher and his brother an auctioneer. <br><br>I truly wouldn't want to be a gorilla because their habitat is foggy and rainy and that weather makes me miserable. But a hunter/gatherer life here in north/central California wouldn't be so bad. The Chumash, Ohlone, Miwok, etc. would hang out by the ocean or the Bay, weaving canoes, eating shellfish, they weren't warlike and they did just fine til the Padres showed up and enslaved and killed them.<br><br>It's true that some things that hunter/gatherers eat, I am not used to, and do not appeal to me. Barbecued grubs or spiders, for example. Nor would I volunteer to butcher the animal, despite Grandpa--his genes apparently didn't end up on my chromosomes because I used to freak out in the butcher shop as a kid (yes, I am old enough to remember separate butcher shops, before supermarkets.)<br><br>On the other hand, my guess is if you took someone from the remaining hunter/gatherer societies on the planet and fed them the tasteless chemical-laced crap we call "food" they would probably projectile-vomit it and refuse to ever touch it again. And if I were hungry enough, and it was all there was to eat, I wouldn't have much choice about the Grubitos, and over time I might even come to like them. <br><br>Also, there's a difference between choosing NOW to adopt a simple lifestyle that is as self sustaining as possible, and the scenario if we're all blasted back to the Stone Age by nuclear terrorism, an errant asteroid, the supervolcano under Yellowstone going KA-BAMMMMM, or some other disaster.<br><br>Even then, some folks will set about finding ways to survive, and others will not be able to let go of what is no more and will die, or self inflicted wounds or refusal to even try the Grubitos, or they will be killed by their fellows because marginal tribal societies cannot afford those whose only contribution is to whinge. <p></p><i></i>