Mysterious mutilation killings in Egypt

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Mysterious mutilation killings in Egypt

Postby AlicetheCurious » Wed Jan 04, 2006 11:25 am

This case has utterly stunned people here -- not only the incomprehensible (and unprecedented) brutality of the killings, but the many unanswered questions that are not mentioned in the AFP article:<br><br>1) the 27-year-old "psychiatric case" is rumored to have suffered from "multiple personality disorder". Other than verbal threats, he has no history of violence;<br><br>2) in his confession, the suspect told police where he had put the stolen body parts and the murder weapon -- the murder weapon, which he said was in an irrigation ditch, was in fact found in a dung heap (not mentioned in the article), and the body parts, contrary to what is written in the article, have not been found at all;<br><br>3) how did the killer remove the clothing, kill and dismember his victims in all three homes, armed only with a machete, without any one of them making a sound or attempting to defend themselves?<br><br>4) not only did the killer(s) murder all these people, a number of dead and mutilated doves were also found in the victims' homes (not mentioned in the article, but shown in tv reports);<br><br>5) in describing his motivation, the killer said that he was following instructions that came to him "in a dream".<br><br>If anyone's interested, I will be glad to provide additional details as I get them -- this crime, unique in so many ways here, but reminiscent of "inexplicable" crimes committed in the US over the past 50 years, sounds like a ritual killing to me. If so, why now? Why here?<br><br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Man held for mutilation murders<br>03/01/2006 20:29 - (SA) </strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br>Cairo - Egyptian police have arrested and detained a suspect in the brutal murders of 10 people in a village in southern Egypt, said a security source on Tuesday.<br><br>The source named the suspect as 27-year-old Mohammed Ali Mohammed and said he was a psychiatric case who had gone on record as threatening to slaughter two young girls.<br><br>Police launched a manhunt after neighbours found the mutilated bodies of the victims in three neighbouring houses in the village of Ezbet Shams el-Din, 225km south of Cairo.<br><br>The victims, four men, two women and four children, had their stomachs and throats slashed open and many of their body parts, including genitals, cut off.<br><br>The security source said the man confessed to carrying out the slaughter and that he led investigators to the murder weapon, a machete, which he had dumped in a nearby ditch.<br><br>According to the source, he also led them to locations of the victim's genitals inside their houses and the culprit was from the same village as the victims.<br><br>Police had said there was no forced entry into the houses or any sign of resistance by the victims.<br><br>Mohammed reportedly told investigators he lowered himself into the houses after scaling the walls onto the roofs. <br><br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Police puzzled over Egypt mutilation-murder mystery<br><br>Thu Dec 29, 1:34 PM ET</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br>BANI MAZAR, Egypt (AFP) - Ten mutilated bodies were found in a southern Egyptian village, some of them missing their vital organs and laying in pools of blood, police sources said.<br>ADVERTISEMENT<br><br>The bodies of 10 Egyptians -- four men, two women and four children -- were found in three neighbouring houses in the village of Ezbet Shams el-Din, 225 kilometres (140 miles) south of Cairo, the sources said.<br><br>Their stomachs and throats were slashed open and many of their body parts, including genitals, were cut off, said an AFP correspondent in this village near the town of Bani Mazar in the Minya governorate.<br><br>Neighbours and relatives later identified the victims in one of the houses as primary school teacher Yehia Ahmed Abu Baker, 35, his wife Nemaat Ali Mohammed, 25, and two children, Mohammed and Asmaa.<br><br>A son who spent the night at his grandmother's discovered the bodies in the morning, witnesses told police.<br><br>"Yehia never had problems with anybody," his cousin and brother-in-law, Mohammed Ezzat Abdul Latif told AFP.<br><br>In the second house lay the disfigured bodies of Taha Abdul Meguid Mohammed, a 26-year-old lawyer, and his mother, Anad Ahmed Hassan.<br><br>Mohammed's brother, who lives nearby, found the bodies when he went to the house to wake him up for dawn prayers, police told AFP.<br><br>The third house contained the bodies of farmer Said Mahmud Abdu, 50, his wife Sabah Ali Abul Wahab, 45, and two children, 10-year-old Ahmed and eight-year-old Fatma.<br><br>Abdu's two other daughters, who live on the second floor of the same building discovered the bodies.<br><br>Neighbours said that none of the victims had differences with people in the village.<br><br>"They were nice people and had good relations with all," said Mohammed Ali.<br><br>Neighbours also told AFP that they heard nothing unusual at night.<br><br>"I did not hear any cries for help," said Zaki Mahmud Abdul Wahad, who lives nearby. All the victims lived on the same street.<br><br>Police immediately ruled out routine motives for murder -- which in Upper Egypt include vendettas, land disputes, honour killings or sectarian violence -- as a possible reason for the slaughter.<br><br>"We also rule out theft, as nothing was removed from the three houses," a senior security official in the area told AFP.<br><br>There was no blood relation between the victims in the three houses in the impoverished village and police said they still had no clue if the crime was committed by an individual or more than one person.<br><br>But initial reports suggested that there was no forced entry into the houses nor was their any sign of resistance by the victims.<br><br>"The culprit or culprits did not leave any evidence," the security official said. He added that the only lead that they had was that the same weapon, possibly a machete, appeared to be used in all three cases.<br><br>"It was a horrible crime," said villager Shaaban Mohammed. He added that the entire village was stunned by the level of savagery with which the crimes were committed.<br><br>Investigations are ongoing to determine the motive behind the brutal slayings and catch the culprits, police said. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Mysterious mutilation killings in Egypt

Postby Sepka » Wed Jan 04, 2006 11:58 am

I'd very much like to hear more about this, if you don't mind posting it. Where did you come across the information that's not in the articles? Is this near your home? <br><br>-Sepka the Space Weasel <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Mysterious mutilation killings in Egypt

Postby Benway » Thu Jan 05, 2006 4:55 am

I'd also like to know more. I hadn't heard about this. Were the victims drugged? <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Mysterious mutilation killings in Egypt

Postby AlicetheCurious » Thu Jan 05, 2006 5:11 am

No, in fact this happened in a rural village very deep in the heart of Upper Egypt, very far from urban life, a region whose inhabitants are famous for their rigid adherence to tradition and tribal loyalties, their stubborness and their superstitious beliefs. It's also an area where people are mostly very poor and often work themselves into an early grave to scratch out a living.<br><br>The information I have is from foreign news agencies, and from tv. I don't feel confident quoting the local Arabic papers about this particular story, because it is so sensational and emotional that I doubt the writers will be able to resist embellishing their accounts or including some less-than-credible elements. As for tv, well, a picture is worth a thousand words.<br><br>By the way, the villagers themselves are not convinced that the right man was caught -- as they say, how could one man, in the space of 3 hours in the middle of the (extremely quiet as only a rural village can be) night, manage to enter 3 non-congruent houses without alerting anyone in the neighbourhood of closely packed houses, kill and then mutilate 10 people without any sound, without tying them up and gagging them, nor any sign of struggle? <br><br>A man, moreover, who has no history of violence? Whose motivation for such a massive undertaken is "a vision"? (I mistranslated before - not a dream, a vision).<br><br>So far as I know, they have not yet recovered the perpetrator's blood-stained clothing, nor the stolen body parts. The machete was found in a place very different from where the suspect said it would be. I guess we'll have to wait until the police release their findings from the search of his home. <br><br>Man, I wish I could go there myself and play amateur detective! Or at least ask some questions. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Mysterious mutilation killings in Egypt

Postby AlicetheCurious » Fri Jan 06, 2006 4:02 pm

My husband, who daily reads most of the local papers, tells me there is no more mention of the killings, after the "mental case" was arrested.<br><br>Apparently, I'm not alone in suspecting that this was no mere lone nut killer case; at least one reader of the Middle East Times entertains similar doubts:<br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Stop the devil worshipers</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br>Magdy<br>EGYPT<br>January 5, 2006<br><br> -- The multiple murders in the Egyptian village of Bani Mazar were not the act of a psychopath or a hired killer ("Police puzzled over Egypt mutilation-murder mystery," December 30). This was human sacrifice for satanic worship. The way those victims had been dissected and laid down, with beheaded doves alongside them is clearly the work of devil worshipers who sacrifice using the similar ritual style.<br><br>Our police department should read up on all the information they can get from similar killings in other countries to find out how they are going to bring the killer - or let us say group of killers - to justice. If this is allowed to happen once in Egypt, it will recur again and again according to their ritual timetable. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Mysterious mutilation killings in Egypt

Postby GDN01 » Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:57 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>The third house contained the bodies of farmer Said Mahmud Abdu, 50, his wife Sabah Ali Abul Wahab, 45, and two children, 10-year-old Ahmed and eight-year-old Fatma.<br><br>Abdu's two other daughters, who live on the second floor of the same building discovered the bodies.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Two people in the same building as the murders - and apparently didn't hear a thing. This is odd indeed.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Mysterious mutilation killings in Egypt

Postby Sepka » Fri Jan 06, 2006 6:39 pm

I can so see myself sailing up the Nile in my pith helmet and linen suit, on my way to examine the Scene of the Crime <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :D --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br>Have the police actually said that the case is closed, or are they just keeping quiet about it? It can sometimes be useful to just sit and wait, and see what a suspect will do.<br><br>Even if the murderer(s) turn out to be cultists, we're still left with the problem of how the victims were killed without making a fuss. What are the houses like in that area? I'm picturing a thick-walled desert house with an open atrium in the middle (the first story said that he climbed to the roof and dropped into the house) but I can't find anything on the web about modern Egyptian houses, apart from a showcase house that looks like a compact palace. I'm guessing people in that district wouldn't have air conditioners. Would they maybe have electric fans? Those can be quite noisy.<br><br>Did the victims have anything in common? Were they related by marriage (the article says that there was no blood relationship), were they of a different religion than the others, were they in business together? Is there any chance that the village as a whole killed them for whatever reason, then covered it up? How many people live in this village? Is there any indication of what the villagers think about this?<br><br>Were the doves simply decapitated, or were they mutilated as well? Leviticus gives instructions for a ritual sacrifice of doves. The head should be twisted (not cut) off, and the bird split down the middle while being left in one piece, then finally burned in a wood fire. I'm guessing (I don't know) this passage would be familiar to Moslems or Coptic Christians as well.<br><br>Modern Judaism has eschewed sacrifice since 70 AD, yet I'm familiar with references to present-day Indian Jews sacrificing doves in times of sickness. Islam came along too late for animal sacrifice to ever be an official practice, but I've no idea how the rural Egyptians actually practice it "on the ground", as it were. The dogma of a religion and its practice in the back country can be two very different things.<br><br>-Sepka the Space Weasel <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Mysterious mutilation killings in Egypt

Postby Sepka » Sat Jan 07, 2006 3:21 am

Al Ahram's English edition has a feature article about the murders this week which answers some of my questions:<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2006/776/eg6.htm">weekly.ahram.org.eg/2006/776/eg6.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Murder most foul</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Investigators believe they found the allegedly deranged serial killer behind the gruesome murders in the Upper Egyptian village of Shamseddin, reports Pierre Loza from Al-Minya</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> <br><br><br>Controversy surrounds the string of grisly killing of defenseless villagers in Shamseddin, Al-Minya governorate, although security officials announced that they have arrested a man suspected of carrying out the gruesome murders. The man, identified as 27-year-old Mohamed Ali Abdel-Latif, is a high school drop out from the village. Amidst the increasing public scepticism, the authorities announced that the murderer confessed and showed them where he buried the body parts of his victims and handed over the crime weapons. Although details of the crime sequence have not yet been revealed, investigators believe the alleged killer suffers from schizophrenia or split personality disorder. Gamal Madi, psychiatrist, treated Abdel-Latif.<br><br>Ten people were killed on the night of 28 December. All the victims were butchered in much the same manner, with a cut from the throat downwards and a mutilation of the genitalia. Located on the same street, all three homes where these heinous acts took place are within a 100-metre vicinity of one another, making the crime all the more disturbing. The grim murders have baffled public and officials alike.<br><br>In the room where El-Said Mahmoud, his wife, and two children were butchered, the light is never turned off and the Quran plays continuously in the hope of bringing peace to a room which has witnessed indescribable violence. The room walls, sprayed with blood, showed all the signs of the sinister work of a pathological killer. <br><br>Towards the end of the street, in the home of the late Yehia Ahmed Bakr, five pigeons were left around the bodies of the victims. "These pigeons were a symbol of peace, whoever did this, wants to say that peace is dead, at least in our village," said a bystander. <br><br>On the night of the massacres, Mohamed Yehia was sleeping at his grandmother's house. The 13-year-old woke up to the screams of villagers who had just discovered the murder of Taha Shamseddin and his 54-year-old mother. When Yehia ran home to check if his family was fine, he discovered the bodies of his parents, his one-year-old brother and nine- year-old sister, with the pigeons scattered around them. Three days after the murders, Yehia had planned to sit for an Arabic exam the following morning. "What use is it? All of these investigators and policemen, they can't bring my family back, can they? They didn't even come quickly, we discovered the murders at 5am and they came at 9pm," Yehia lamented. <br><br>A science teacher who also taught theatre, Mohamed's father led the life of an educated man and a farmer. "When he would come back from school he would change his suit and put on a galabeya and start working the land like any other farmer," he said. The tragic incidents also highlighted the fact that like so many Upper Egyptian villages, Shamseddin is underdeveloped and marginalised. "There is no school, no hospital, no police station! Labourers have to work for as little as LE6 a day, is this justice?" Yehia asked. <br><br>Like many migrant workers in Shamseddin, Mohamed Radi works in a Cairo cleaning company. Fainting at the news that his in-laws, El-Said and his family, were killed, he was fortunate to know that his wife and two children in the floor above them were not harmed. "My wife heard a light knock on the door around dawn, she thought it might be someone waking her father up for dawn prayers," Radi said. Radi says that when his wife Zeinab woke up in the morning, she found the interior door closed. As she turned around, and entered through the front door which was open, she discovered that her entire family was butchered.<br><br>In the aftermath of the murders, numerous rumours circulated in the closely knit village of about 8,000 people. "Some people were saying that the government was going to cut the electricity and people started buying gas lamps," says local farmer Ahmed Mahmoud. <br><br>The villagers were quite angered by recent newspaper articles that claimed that the assailant was mentally deranged. "How could this person possibly be deranged? He goes into three houses on the same street, kills 10 people without anyone hearing a dog barking or a single scream," Mahmoud said. Although the village is crawling with security forces, villagers feel extremely unsafe even in their own homes. "People are so scared, that they haven't even been able to mourn their dead properly. You now have three or four families staying in one room because people are scared to sleep alone," explained Mahmoud. <br><br>Security officials have been quite uneasy about commenting on the murders, leaving a lot of the details surrounding the case unclear. "From what I hear so far, finger prints are smudged and difficult to identify. Forensics experts were also looking into the possibility that victims were sedated, and killed while they were asleep," said a security official who preferred to remain anonymous. <br><br>There were speculations that the killings were part of black magic rituals used in the process of opening an ancient Egyptian tomb. "Villages that deal with ancient Egyptian artifacts usually enjoy a little bit of affluence, but as you can see this village is very poor," said an official. The case was all the more puzzling because the victims involved, bore no animosity towards anyone in the village. As the custom goes in Upper Egyptian vendetta cases, women and children are usually exempted from payback killings. In this case, elder women and infants as young as one-year-old were not spared. <br><br>Al-Minya parliament member, Alaa Makadi believes these incidents mark a historical shift in culture of the governorate. "Al-Minya is characterised by serenity and peace, if you look at the last parliamentary elections, you will notice that there was very little thuggery here," Makadi said. Makadi believes that part of the problem lies in the disappearance of traditional security networks in rural society. "In the old days it was common to find an old man roaming the village at night carrying a gun. Although firearms might not even work properly, his presence made a difference. We want to bring this old guard tradition back to our villages," Makadi said. <br><br>Makadi was approached by a number of residents, who offered to pay an extra fee on their utility bills to ensure the appointment of a street guard, or ghafeer. "I have never seen a crime like this in Egypt in my whole life, I even asked people that are older than me, they also said it was unprecedented." <br><br>-Sepka the Space Weasel <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Mysterious mutilation killings in Egypt

Postby AlicetheCurious » Sat Jan 07, 2006 10:13 am

Thanks so much, Sepka, very interesting article. The officials are being increasingly tight-lipped about the details, some of which contradicted themselves initially. <br><br>For example, when the suspect was first arrested, we were told that he had confessed and indicated to police where the body parts and murder weapon would be found, but that he was wrong about both and that the body parts were not found. <br><br>Then we were told that the police would be searching his home for blood-stained clothing or other incriminating evidence, but then no information at all was released about what was found, if anything, during that search.<br><br>In fact, one retired police official said on tv that there was not one shred of evidence to corroborate the suspect's confession. It's a very odd story, and it rang (and continues to ring) a lot of alarms in my head, although I have no idea what it all means. Honestly, the first question that popped out of my mouth when I first heard what had happened was, "Have any foreigners been hanging around there recently?" I immediately thought of RI and all the ritual killings scattered here and there and rarely investigated seriously.<br><br>Could the tentacles of the octopus have reached deep into the South of Egypt? Why not, that area is a huge repository for ancient Egyptian artifacts, many of which are still buried there. <br><br>By the way, in response to your questions, the villagers in question are extremely, extremely poor (6 LE is roughly equivalent to $ 1). Their houses are usually rudimentary though built of brick and cement, rarely finished, because each child builds an apartment for him/herself on top of the family home, as he or she gets married.<br><br>In upper Egypt, the dead dove is a symbol for "the end of peace". It's usually sent to a family or individual as a declaration of war. Normally, the sender would be someone who has been victimized and seeks revenge, and would not make any attempt to hide his or their identity.<br><br>In this case, it makes no sense.<br><br>And finally, for the first time in many decades, the Coptic Christmas, January 7th, is followed just three days later by the Muslim "Feast of the Sacrifice", in which every Muslim family is obligated to sacrifice either a sheep, or a calf, or whatever other meat animal they can afford, to be butchered and its meat distributed, one-third for the family itself, one-third for friends and relatives, and one-third among the poor, who can rarely afford to eat meat at any other time.<br><br>So, sacrifice is indeed practiced in Islam, but is closely related to charity, and has no relation whatsoever to the meaning of sacrifice in Judaism and Christianity as a way to wash away sins and/or expiate guilt. For more information about "The Feast of the Sacrifice" that will start on Tuesday, check out: <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/birmingham/faith/2004/01/eid_al_adha.shtml">www.bbc.co.uk/birmingham/...adha.shtml</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>Also, as you say, practice is different from dogma, and here the well-off, both Christians and Muslims, tend to celebrate important events (graduation, marriage, birth of a child, etc.) by "sacrificing" a meat animal and distributing its meat to the poor. Meat is relatively very expensive here, and way out of the range of most poor people, so "sacrificing" is one way to spread the joy and perhaps, avoid the evil eye from envious individuals... <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Mysterious mutilation killings in Egypt

Postby Sepka » Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:21 pm

You're right that I was thinking in terms of a ritual sacrifice to wash away sins. From a Judeo-Christian view that fits with the doves and the victims' mutilations, but what you say about doves obviously makes a lot more sense in light of the bystander's comments in the Al Ahram story. If that's what the doves meant, would that not imply that the murders were intended at least partly as a message to someone still alive?<br><br>At least one of the villagers seems to think that artefact theft may have been somehow involved. I note that one house held a lawyer and his mother, one a science teacher and his family, and one a farmer and his family. If the crime was somehow related to artefact theft and smuggling, this is a reasonable blend of professions to have engaged in such a conspiracy.<br><br>Were doves found at all the houses, or only at the science teacher's? Either way it's interesting that five were found at Yehia's house - had he been home, he'd undoubtedly have been the fifth victim. Because of the five doves I have to think that the science teacher's entire family was intended to die from the beginning, and weren't just killed in a frenzy or to silence witnesses. The murderer knew how many were in the family, planned accordingly, but didn't realize that Yehia would be away from home that night.<br><br>It's interesting as well that although the farmer's young children were murdered, his grown-up daughter and grandchildren were left alone. Perhaps the farmer himself was the only real target at that house, and his family just killed to do away with witnesses? It'd be very interesting to know if there were doves at his house (and at the lawyer's house as well) and if so, how many.<br><br>It bothers me that the teacher's entire family was killed, right down to the one year old, but the farmer's adult daughter and grandchildren were left alive. The door to her apartment was apparently locked from the other side, too. She seems to have expected it not to be locked, so it's likely the murderer did that to keep her from interfering. Was he short on time? Did he not know who or how many people were in the upper apartment? Did he want to leave her alive for some reason?<br><br>I suppose there's a chance that it was a keylock as well, and perhaps her parents knew or suspected what was about to happen, locked it and tossed the key to protect her. If that's the case, though, why was there no cry for help?<br><br>Is it possible that they were drugged, as Benway suggested, or even poisoned? If people in the area were in the habit of giving gifts of food to their friends, that's certainly possible. I'd have to expect the farmer to have shared a gift of food with his daughter, though, and that apparently wasn't the case. Even if she'd made separate eating arrangements, I'd expect her to know about a gift to her parents.<br><br>The complete lack of any struggle or outcry really bothers me about this whole thing. I have to think there was more than one murderer involved.<br><br>The doves are bothersome too. If they really are meant as a 'declaration of war', then was this whole massacre done at least partly to intimidate someone who's still alive? <br><br>Lastly the men's genitals were cut off, AND their children were killed. Those two facts seem related. Why was the adult daughter and grandchildren left alive, though?<br><br>So many questions, and so few answers. Thanks for pointing this out, AlicetheCurious.<br><br>-Sepka the Space Weasel <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Mysterious mutilation killings in Egypt

Postby Sepka » Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:22 am

The Times reported this on January 1st. Al-Minya is the province where the village of Shamseddin is located. It's interesting that the raid on the tomb robbers occurred so close in time and space to the murders. Sadly, they don't give an exact date.<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2100-1963314,00.html">www.timesonline.co.uk/art...14,00.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr><br>Mummy seller busted in Cairo<br> <br>OFFICERS OF Egypt’s Tourism and Antiquities police arrested a Giza souvenir shop owner last week after he tried to sell a mummy for $10m (£5.8m). <br>Ahmed al-Jabari was taken into custody after a raid on his shop, located near the Pyramids Plateau, revealed 126 items from the pharaonic era, including 27 necklaces — one of which was made from gold — and 18 amulets. The mummy, alleged to have been offered in its original packaging of a limestone sarcophagus, was not found on the premises. <br> <br>Police also swooped on another gang of antiquity dealers conducting illegal digs in the archeologically rich desert around Al-Minya, 150 miles south of Cairo. The sweep follows the case of a Cairo farmer arrested after trying to sell a 2,500-year-old mummy.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>-Sepka the Space Weasel <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Mysterious mutilation killings in Egypt

Postby AlicetheCurious » Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:45 am

Yeah, well, your thinking echoes many of the reports in local newspapers here, including the official Al Ahram newspaper. Some prominent opinion columnists have speculated that the killings were actually ritual sacrifices made to propitiate (is that the right word?) the gods or spirits guarding the rich treasures buried in that region.<br><br>Apparently, according to these columnists, the other murders were simply to cover up the sacrifice of children, since the gods in question specifically demand the warm corpses of children as a sacrifice. Almost nobody believes that the arrested man was the true killer, he is generally considered to be a patsie.<br><br>Personally, I do believe there is a connection between the ancient Egyptian artifacts known to be buried in that region, and the murders, but I doubt that the connection is as straightforward (ie simple greed and lust for treasure) as so many people think.<br><br>The fear in that village is very real. Weeks later, entire families insist on sleeping all together in one room, heavy locks have been installed on the doors of houses that have never been locked before, and the villagers themselves are openly expressing their doubts that the real killer or killers have been caught.<br><br>We still don't know HOW the murders were carried out -- I suspect that once we can reconstruct the crime in a way that covers all the currently unexplained elements, WHO and even WHY the murders were committed will become clearer. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Mysterious mutilation killings in Egypt

Postby Sepka » Sat Jan 21, 2006 5:54 am

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Some prominent opinion columnists have speculated that the killings were actually ritual sacrifices made to propitiate (is that the right word?) the gods or spirits guarding the rich treasures buried in that region.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Could you be kind enough to post some translations? I'm not able to find anything online. <br><br>Is there anymore news about the man arrested in the case? Has he been formally charged? Is there a trial or hearing date set?<br><br>-Sepka the Space Weasel<br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Mysterious mutilation killings in Egypt

Postby AlicetheCurious » Sun Jan 22, 2006 11:28 am

If I'm still sick in bed tomorrow, I'll translate a sample column for you that appeared several weeks ago -- otherwise, with my pathetic skills, it would just take too much time. <br><br>The story has officially become yesterday's news and receives no coverage. The suspect has disappeared into the twilight zone, and only if you listen carefully, you can still hear the fading echo of all the unanswered questions that are being buried with him.<br><br>Maybe there will be a trial, and then we might learn something. Or maybe he will be declared unfit to stand trial and get locked away in some asylum, or commit suicide in his cell, only time will tell. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Mysterious mutilation killings in Egypt

Postby AlicetheCurious » Wed Jan 25, 2006 11:10 am

I translated this opinion piece for you, Sepka, I hope you appreciate this, because I hate translating, especially when I strongly disagree with most of what the writer is saying...although I do agree that more police attention should have been directed at the necromancers and other experts of the occult & magic whose "constant flow" to the village may have provided cover for someone even worse than a charlatan... <br><br>Anyway, here goes:<br><br>Al-Ahram, January 11, 2006, p. 10<br><br>Opinion Page: A Point of Light<br><br>Egyptians and Superstition<br><br>By Makram Mohamed Ahmed<br><br>Fear continues to grip the residents of Al-Shams village as they await another massacre, which they fear will be even more terrible than the recent massacre that took the lives of three families. <br><br>They do not believe the story has ended with the arrest of the unemployed youth who suffers from multiple personality disorder, whom the police accused of committing the crime despite the absence of any motive. <br><br>Neither have the police sought the help of psychiatric experts to help them solve the puzzle of the confessed murderer who has tried and failed to re-enact the crime for the police, and whose demeanor remains vague and confused, as though he suffers from amnesia.<br><br>Despite the suspect's confessions, the villagers continue to insist that the crimes far exceed the capability of one human being, in view of the distance between the three separate murder scenes and the very short time in which the crimes were committed, without anybody hearing or seeing anything.<br><br>The villagers do not believe that the suspect is guilty; despite his history of mental illness, he has never been violent, and prays regularly.<br><br>Unless, they say, he has been possessed by one of the ginn (demons?) from the other world, which are said to inhabit Al-Shams and the surrounding villages. <br><br>Villagers maintain that fabulous ancient treasures are buried in their lands, but that these are guarded by demons that prevent anyone from finding these treasures, unless, legend has it, a freshly-killed child is offered as a sacrifice in exchange.<br><br>It is true that in every village in Egypt, there is the old apocryphal story of the "slaughtered child", which says that the corpse of a child has been found, whose identity and origin is unknown, but who was sacrificed so that the ancient grain mills and water-wheels would continue to turn, providing food and water for the villagers.<br><br>But the circumstances are very different in Al-Shams and the surrounding villages of Beni Mazar in the region of Al-Bahamsa, which are the site of one of the most important civilizations of ancient Egypt, and which continues to be one of the richest troves of archeological treasures.<br><br>Thus, dreams of treasure abound among the residents, and the region attracts a constant flow of charlatans claiming magical powers and knowledge of the occult, making bizarre demands upon the villagers, in exchange for information about how to obtain the treasure that will deliver the villagers from their life of poverty. These demands usually specify measures to be taken at night, in the absence of the authorities.<br><br>Many times, the villagers toiled all night, digging where the charlatans told them to, but morning would come and the work would stop without anything to show for it because, the charlatans explained, the demons (ginn) refused to give up the secret of the treasures unless they smelled the warm blood of a freshly-killed child.<br><br>This, then, is the background against which the reality of events in Al-Shams village have unfolded, which fills its inhabitants with terror, which keeps them silent, and which makes them skeptical that the mentally ill young suspect is the true killer.<br><br>Perhaps the authorities should have sought out those charlatans, the "experts" in occult matters, who apparently incited just such a crime by presenting it as the only key to the vast treasures hidden just out of reach, in a context where a similar legend had existed for years: the legend of the demon and the treasure and the slaughtered child.<br><br>Unfortunately, superstition thrives in the minds of many Egyptians, encouraged by the thousands of con-artists who earn a living by blurring the line between magic and religion, claiming knowledge of hidden mysteries, the ability to unveil what is masked, to heal illnesses that defy medical treatment, and to invoke and command and restrain demons (ginn).<br><br>It's past time for us to get serious about getting rid of superstitious thinking and related legends that continue their ancient hold on people's minds, even at a time when globalization has extended the reach of broadcast media, electronic communications and information beyond geographical limits. <br><br>In a recent study, the Center for Research on Criminology found that 65% of Egyptians hold superstitious beliefs…and that in Egypt, there are 200,000 fortune-tellers! And that Egyptians spend one billion Egyptian pounds every year on magic and fortune-tellers.<br> <p></p><i></i>
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