Deliverance ministries, ritual abuse and the ‘Illuminati’

by **biaothanatoi** » Sun Feb 05, 2006 11:57 pm

I met with a group of RA survivors on the weekend to discuss their care and support needs, which was really constructive. They are an amazing group of people. One thing that struck me – a guy coming to grips with DID who was regularly attending a local ‘deliverance ministry’ to work through RA. He was largely amnestic for his entire childhood, but he kept speaking about his ‘programmers’, the ‘Illuminati’, etc etc etc. These words and concepts don’t come from his direct experience – after all, by his own admission, he hasn’t broken down the amnestic barriers between alters, and the memories he does have are largely in the form of flashbacks, conversion symptoms, enactive behaviours, etc. So where is he getting this stuff about ‘the Illuminati’ from? Answer: The deliverance ministry. What do the earliest and most public proponents of the ritual abuse ‘Illuminati’ theory (Fritz Springmeier, Cisco Wheeler and Svali) all have in common? Answer: Deliverance ministries. It seems to me that ‘deliverance ministries’ (who, I’d suggest, already have a tendency towards essentialist and reductionist thinking) came up with the ‘Illuminati’ in the 1980s as an explanation for ritual abuse, and they’ve been using it as a framework to ‘help’ survivors understand their abuse ever since. After all, religious counselors are not criminologists or specialists in sexual trafficking, but they have needed some explanation for these atrocities and the cover-ups that accompany them. Policy/academia/police were no help – so an explanation evolved over time, one that ‘made sense’ in the worldview of a Christian fundamentalist – ‘the Illuminati’. These days, the ‘Illuminati’ explanation has spread beyond deliverance ministries, but they still seem to be at the core of it. The therapists I know who believe the ‘Illuminati’ theory are also fundamentalist Christians who have been reading deliverance material. I’ve quizzed them on it, and the word ‘Illuminati’ has not come from their patients – it comes from the therapist's own reading. What I encountered yesterday was an RA survivor who had been given that explanation by someone else (and he desperately needed some explanation) and he has woven it in to his own life story. Does anyone know of any cases out there in which this ‘Illuminati’ material came directly from the survivor without any contact with a therapist, ministry, or other intervening party? Where I’m leading here: The ‘misuse of ritual practice’ is acknowleged by the United Nations as being central to the trafficking of women and children. Child and adult prostitutes from Western Africa and other developing nations report being ritually abused before being trafficked into sexual slavery. The victims are petrified of their traffickers because they believe they have a magical hold over them. Some of the people involved in ritual abuse in Africa ARE religious and spiritual practitioners (priests, ‘witch doctors’, etc), but the purpose of the abuse is basically sex and profit. What if ritual abuse in the West is exactly the same thing? Not an overarching super-cult at all, but a specific technique – the ‘misuse of ritual practice’, as the UN working party on slavery calls it – used by a variety of criminal groups who like sadistic sex and like to make money from it? The things that occur in ritual abuse are extremely profitable in the context of prostitution/pornography – there is a huge market out there for images of child torture, bigger then most people think. These photos are trafficked in the same way drugs are trafficked. What if the most common lens out there on ritual abuse – ‘the Illuminati’ – is totally wrong? What if it’s basically a ‘false consensus’ that’s been generated organically over time, starting with the Army of God in the 80s and propagated around the world because it's a simple and easy explanation for a horrific and complex crime? I’ll stop there, but that’s where my head is at right now.

by **Dreams End** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 1:16 am

bio... your posts are consistently the best on this topic. Keep it up. And ole fritz is now in jail for armed robbery...and used to hang out with the "Army of God" a rather distasteful rightwing group. (Eric Rudolph, anyone?) My only question is is this just a hustle or is there a darker purpose behind this disinfo? And to mess with survivors' heads like that.... I don't have time right this minute...but I had some info on Fritz...including letters of denunciation by other Christians who'd worked with him. His wife found all kinds of fake identity papers.... And naturally, what kind of Illuminati rescuer would he be, if he didn't end up making a lover out of the woman he rescued. All while married, thank you very much. Compare, please, to Mark Phillips (I'm having brain freeze...that's Cathy O'Brien's husband or boyfriend/rescuer, right?). Really similar pattern. You could be the guy...bio...to make some sense out of this. Your posts are articulate and well researched. I'd urge a database of confirmed cases to use as research for suspected cases and for corrobaration. I think it would reveal a lot.

by **biaothanatoi** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:59 am

Hi DE, Thanks for the support. If Fritz is the earliest source on the ‘Illuminati’ and RA, it would explain a hell of a lot. I suspect his source on RA (“Cisco Wheeler”) was a real survivor, but he took her story and wove it into an existing conspiracy theory about the ‘Satanic cult’ responsible for ‘gay agenda’, rock and roll music, ‘liberals’, those ‘pagan Catholics’, etc. So Fritz writes this stuff and distributes it via the fundie Church network. As more survivors came forward and ritual abuse counseling ‘mainstreamed’ into different churches, his ‘Illuminati’ theory came along with it. Why not? Nobody else was helping counselors or survivors understand the emergence of RA as an atrocity on par with death camps and ethnic cleansing, albeit hidden and happening in our backyards. And if someone is DID and almost a total amnestic, they are not in a position to reject or challenge this material. The ministry may be the first experience of support and care that they have ever had. Their lives may be a blank slate to the core personality anyway. What basis do they have for telling the first people that have every shown them any support: “Thanks for the theory, but it doesn’t quite fit for me.” Particularly when, by buying into the ‘Illuminati’ theory, they re-affirm the worldview of the community that has embraces them and keeps them safe. On one hand, I think that the work that the churches do in RA should be commended, because they are offering survivors much more support then any other agency I can see. On the other hand, if, during the course of therapy, some religious agencies (such as deliverance ministries) are indoctrinating RA survivors with right-wing conspiracy material … well, that’s a big problem. It’d make an interesting little research project, that one.

by **havanagila** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 4:32 am

the iluminati accounts is perhaps one the first (only ?) ones that attempted an overall look at the MC/SRA situation. It was spun according to the confusion of the person who came in touch with it. Everyone will benefit from another, more solid, account. Since MC is part of a political agenda, it would be nice to see a better explanation. but the big who "they" are - is still an X. Part of the "blame" for the lack is the fact tha left wingers didn't want to touch MC issues, and in the vacuum - the religious people provided the support, with their usual strings attached. i'd say that instead of attacking them, other alternatives should be provided and developed to address the issue. In my experience here, in Israel, the left wing instutions/orgs (women's shelters etc.) are afraid to tackle the issue whereas the Orthodox Rabbis (who sometimes help women running away from SRA situations and MC, perhaps) are less afraid of the establishment, for various reasons. right wing conspiracy theory is still more protected, because it is still right wing.

by **Rigorous Intuition** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 4:43 am

Thanks for the thread, biao. I've noted before how so many of these men who glom onto RA survivors are themselves identifiably far-right cultists of the "patriot" and "identity" movements. It certainly makes sense that the same forces of abuse would seek to have a hand in guiding the "recovery" process. FYI to any who don't know Springmeier's story, and only know the name as an "expert on Illuminati mind control," should read <a href="http://www.eaec.org/expose/FritzSpringmeier2.htm">this</a>: On October 8, 1997 the Damascus branch of Key Bank of Oregon was robbed. The robbers fled with $6,000.00 in cash. One of the robbers, later identified as Forrest E. Bateman Jr., used a gun in the robbery, when he fired one shot into the ceiling of the bank to warn the bank clerks that he was willing to use the gun if they did not comply with his demands. Bateman was dressed in army battle fatigues. Ten minutes prior to the robbery, a bomb exploded at the Fantasy Adult Video Store, located six miles west of the bank. No one was injured in the explosion but police investigators believe that the bomb was set off as a diversionary tactic. Bateman and another man (which I will not identify in order to protect his family, but will give him the fictitious name Roger), had sometime earlier been recruited by Fritz Springmeier 1, and both of them lived on a remote property on and off for eight years which was owned by Roger’s family. Fritz would come often and spend time with the men. According to a family member (which I have spoken to on several occasions), they were preparing for some kind of action against government authorities. Roger, Bateman and Springmeier grew marijuana on the family property (which was not known to the family), and it was sold as a source of income to fund their activities. The family eventually became very afraid of Fritz and forbade him to come back on the property. ... Investigator reporter John Stevens from the Portland area in Oregon, was able to obtain copies of the search warrants used by the police to search Springmeier and Bateman’s residences in Multnomah and Clackamas Counties. According to Stevens here are some of the items found and confiscated: Machine guns, a modified 20 mm cannon, a 37 mm grenade launcher, hand grenades, part for a .50 caliber machine gun, tri-pod mounted .30 caliber semi-automatic belt fed copy of a Browning 1919 machine gun, dynamite, binary explosives, chemicals to make C-4 explosives, numerous hand guns, rifles, and thousands of rounds of ammunition. ... Pastor Jeff Weakley of God’s Remnant Church (GRC) is a part of the Identity Movement 4, which is also connected with the Christian Patriot Association (CPA). Weakley in an interview with John Stevens in 1997 told how the Army of God (AOG) is set up, and he specifically warned that the members are very dangerous, well armed, committed and invisible. Weakley further revealed that Springmeier may be the leader and brain behind Army of God cells and their activities. In a private letter from Springmeier to John Stevens in 1997, Springmeier outlined his activities and he ended the letter, saying "PLEASE DESTROY THIS LETTER AFTER YOU READ IT, OUR EXISTENCE IS UNKNOWN."

by **biaothanatoi** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 5:23 am

Hi Havanagila, > the iluminati accounts is perhaps one the first (only ?) ones that attempted an overall look at the MC/SRA situation. Agreed it is probably the first, but it's not the only explanation. It's certainly not the right one! We know that, nuerologically, both ritual and torture create deeply hypnoid and dissociative states in which people are highly suggestible. 'Ritual abuse' (where torture and ritual come together) is a very effective way of controlling people - probably the most effective that we have. If you want a slave without the shackles, then ritual abuse is your best bet. And if you start when they are kids (particularly if they are your kid) then you probably won't get caught. > but the big who "they" are - is still an X. Why does there have to be an X? Look at any form of crime - it's committed by different people in different countries in different contexts for different reasons. Is ritual abuse somehow the one exception to that? The one crime on this planet that is being 'horded' by an X? Although child torture porn and sadistic paedophilia earn big money on the global black market - billions of dollars up for grabs - only this X has thought to cash in? > Part of the "blame" for the lack is the fact tha left wingers didn't want to touch MC issues I would definitely agree with you there. And I've seen the churches here do some amazing work, so I'm not attacking the churches at all. But there is evidence that some religious agencies are projecting a political agenda onto an extremely vulnerable population of torture survivors - and it's an agenda that ultimately undermines and invalidates their life histories. Why don't we have any RA services? Why don't we have any help? It's not just denial and cover-up. Ritual abuse has became synonymous with Christian fundamentalist propaganda and most people don't know enough to seperate the two out. > whereas the Orthodox Rabbis (who sometimes help women running away from SRA situations and MC, perhaps) are less afraid of the establishment, for various reasons. I think, also, that religious people have a language of 'good' and 'evil' that helps them understand and assist survivors, whereas atheists and lefties can be reluctant to engage with the moral 'absolutism' of ritual abuse.

by **havanagila** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 6:26 am

why aren't there RA agencies ...? ahhh...don't we wish. --- It seems we agree on the basics, except I do feel there is an X element, not sure if its the technology originating there or something. can't pin point it. there is something instrinsically political (in the narrow term, namely actually present time political) in that crime. This is perhaps also a key to understanding the "politicization" of the response. In my personal experience - the orgs i fell into, as helpers who know the issue - 1. ultra right wing fundie Jewish orthodox group in jerusalem (who were going to make me a slave of them, which almost happened). 2. bizarre "torture help group" outside of israel, which turned out to be so called radical left, but I think it was UK-German-Iranian intel behind the scenes. there are exploiters everywhere. Haven't yet found a professional, disinterested group.But perhaps I was also attracted to perps, as you said, our minds, after being coached that way are geared and addicted to this kind of total manipulation. Oh, I did pass on some good help, i think there was one yoga group, a bit cultish but not too much (Yogaville, VA), that were willing to support but not verbally, you know just yoging and eating good food, getting stronger in a safe environment. now, i am just limping by myself, not taking help, don't trust the scene, certainly not here in Israel.

by **havanagila** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:19 am

one point I think is important, its not just slaves that are created but discreet one, actually securely discreet (I am still not sure I know everything I did), this makes it ideal for 1. intel 2. organized crime It is important for the advocates/care takers to know that victims will always be an info treasure/asset for various interested parties. Also, the way the governments are implicated, is by some of those secret missions being a goverment issue/secrets, and therefore it becomes national security interest to keep the slave in a "trusted" environment, namely, with people who will put national security at the top of their agenda. Thus, MC/SRA implicates governments and prevents neutral, professional treatment.

by **Dreams End** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:28 pm

Somewhere I had a thread about ole Fritz but I can't find it. Here's a link to a long article from within the circles Fritz was involved in...rightwing "anti-NWO" researchers like Texx Marres...I don't accept them as sources usually, but it includes letters from Fritz's wife and a long account of others within this "ministry" who felt abused by him. <a href="http://www.eaec.org/expose/FritzSpringmeier1.htm">www.eaec.org/expose/Fritz...meier1.htm</a> And I want to be specific in my praise of BIO. I've seen your thinking evolve and seen you consistently going where your research leads you and not simply accepting any theory that comes along from anyone who claims to be on the same side. I think that often the cases of some sick person engaging in this behavior which we read about in the press don't expose much of this at all. I'd say that some of the most important leads on all this include: The Dutroux case in Belgium. I haven't heard any actual SRA allegations (at least I don't think I have) but not only did this unemployed guy have 4 very expensive houses, indicating a very extensive business, the bodies of young girls were found on his property. In addition, he has clear ties to fascist political circles and I think also if one read French (which I don't) you could find that the nominally socialist government is also contaminated beyond saving when it comes to this case. He went to jail...but his clients did not. And he had a lot of clients. Refresher on Dutroux: <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/dutroux/story/0,14705,1240980,00.html">www.guardian.co.uk/dutrou...80,00.html</a> This is a case where the evidence is very clear and one can speculate without going to far afield that there are a lot of pictures of Belgian politicians who will do whatever it takes to make sure this story goes no further. Absolutely indisputable case, though we may never know how far it goes. The Finders case is another, but I'm not sure much more will be uncovered. A little digging on my part suggests that they actually moved their operations to Asia, though the main piece of evidence is an anonymous post on Indynet. However, I found some of the key players had been writing, at one point, in Asian based magazines. Interestingly, a reporter who covered the Finders and spent a year researching them only to say there wasn't enough there was rumored to have actually joined them. Can't say that he did for sure..but now HE writes about Asian affairs for a website based in Asia. Email to him went unanswered, of course. The customs memo suggests there were all sorts of documents about selling and procuring children as well as stuff involving the Pentagon. I'd give a lot of money to meet the Customs Agent who was involved in writing that memo. Franklin Coverup. This case is contaminated, I think. I suspect, but can't prove, that extraneous stuff has been introduced to this case. TOO MANY ways that it ties into EVERYTHING, Gosch, the call-boy scandal etc. But clearly the Boys Town was being used to run child sex operations, and the call boy scandal happened. I think Jeff was the first to give me the perspective that the reason that the Washington Times was the one to break the scandal was to show their blackmail hand, a little. The fact that DeCamp brags of his friendship with former CIA official Colby who confirms on tape (but VERY VAGUELY) that the story is real, and also the fact that he was researching with Chaitkin, (who writes for Larouche and Larouche has been a big promoter of this story via pamphlets like "Is Satan in Your Child's Schoolyard) makes me suspicious. Others, like Dave McGowan, note his "militia" type politics but think the info is gathered in a sincere fashion. Either way...too much smoke not to be some fire there. Finally, I'd add the recent Ponchatoula case. Although it doesn't have too many clear links that go higher up, the way the story kept changing almost freaked me out as much as the Finders case did. It was posted on this site almost in "real time" as the articles came out. All of a sudden, the videos, the robes and paraphernalia....all of a sudden that stuff just didn't exist anymore. The eyewitness testimony from PERPETRATORS that exposed their doings, just kinda went away. It was really actually quite frightening, and although I can see prosecutors wanting to stay away from this material so as not to lose credibility, I don't think that is nearly enough to explain what I saw. There's also this case in Italy that I never saw much follow up to where 186 people, including some priests were arrested in connection with an online site peddling child TORTURE vids and pics. Oh yeah, and wanna get a little freaked about THAT one? Try Googling it now. Here was the link: <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/crime_italy_paedophilia_dc">news.yahoo.com/s/nm/crime...ophilia_dc</a> I realize that these things get archived and go away, but even simple searches like "Italy priests child torture" returns nothing. Oh, finally found this little one, which I post now so it doesn't disappear, but where's the freaking FOLLOWUP on this little gem? T<blockquote>Quote:<hr>he Register » Internet and Law » Digital Rights/Digital Wrongs » [Print][Mobile][NewsAlerts] Italian police find child torture site Nearly 200 face charges By John Oates Published Wednesday 25th May 2005 09:50 GMT New year, new job? Click here for thousands of tech vacancies. Three Catholic priests, a police officer and a social worker are among 186 people reportedly under investigation in Italy this morning after authorities shut down a child torture website. The website hosted pictures and videos of children between four and eight being sexually abused and tortured. Police are still investigating and are yet to press charges. The password-protected site was online for just nine days before being closed down in July. Web monitoring organisation Telefono Arcobaleno tipped off authorities, according to AP. The site was not indexed so wasn’t picked up search engines. It was hosted on an Italian server but advertised in other countries. The investigation is continuing and no-one has been arrested yet. Premises belonging to 159 suspects in 16 of Italy’s 20 regions were searched on Tuesday. Other suspects have already been searched. ® <a href="http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/05/25/italy_child_abuse/">www.theregister.co.uk/200...ild_abuse/</a><hr></blockquote> These are the sorts of cases that keep me from blowing off these "conspiracy theories" as simply rightwing propaganda. It's real. It's not exactly the "Illuminati", but it's bad enough as it is.

by **biaothanatoi** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:02 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>The Dutroux case in Belgium. I haven't heard any actual SRA allegations (at least I don't think I have)<hr></blockquote> There was a media gag on the Satanic information, which was eventually lifted. On the 12 Jan 1997, the UK paper the Sunday Express referred to links between Dutroux and the Belgium ‘Satanic Order of Abrasax’. A letter found in the house of Dutroux’s accomplice (who Dutroux drugged and buried alive) referred to the need to continue to procure people as ‘presents’ to the High Priestess of the Order. A raid on the group ‘temple’ - an anonymous cottage - resulted in seizure of hundreds of videotapes, racks of computer discs, two human skulls and jars of animal blood. To my knowledge, the material on the disks and videotapes was never made public. Regina Louf is a survivor of Dutroux’s network. She witnessed Satanic rituals which she believed were mocked up to scare new children in the network. You can read an interview <a href="http://www.radicalparty.org/belgium/x1_eng7.htm" target="top">here.</a> Her commentary on the Satanic ritual abuse is at the bottom. I understand that others who post here have more information on this aspect of the case, although they may not be able to provide it. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>These are the sorts of cases that keep me from blowing off these "conspiracy theories" as simply rightwing propaganda. It's real. It's not exactly the "Illuminati", but it's bad enough as it is.<hr></blockquote> Absolutley agreed. I think it’s so bad that people invent the “Illuminati” to feel better. At least that way, the ‘badness’ is out there, quarantined in one super-evil organization, rather then just scattered across the globe and impossible to ferret out entirely. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=biaothanatoi@rigorousintuition>biaothanatoi</A> at: 2/6/06 6:08 pm

by **robertdreed** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:06 pm

That article link came up with a big fat "Not Found."

by **biaothanatoi** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:09 pm

Try again ... I've embedded the link and it seems to be working OK.

by **blanc** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 11:50 am

some random points. I concur with the view that criminality and not any kind of religious fervour or experience is the best frame for understanding ra. at least one umbrella org of ostensibly Christian character is working as a cover for ra. as part of their christian ministry they access vulnerable people, which is ideal for their dual purposes. there most probably are links between criminals who use this ra process and political ends. but the way to unravel the links is via the testimony - identify the perps and their associates and spheres of influence. (ie without getting bogged down in fancy overarching theory.) relatively few victims name real bigwigs, but it can be useful to check out who the perps named do know. a fraction of the dutroux case has become public knowledge. this because the prosecutor who was doing a reasonable job was moved off under a pretext, and then a lawyer with a political connection was used to rubbish testimony relying on her reputation to be believed. the testimony which was then presented at trial had not been indexed and cross referenced. without this, important detail was lost in general fudge. ra allows for people to be brought under control, both the primary victims, and those who straddle the victim/perpetrator divide. Louf described this process. men in influential positions who indulge in abuse are likely to be both perps and victims, the latter in the sense that they are available to control. whether they get got before or after their ascent of the greasy pole is a matter for speculation. all of the threads make the tapestry, including the scepticism of the general public, who, being scared of being thought a conspiracy nut or taken for a ride by a sympathy seeker or fantasist, happily chew on anything which re-inforces the idea that it isn't really happening.

by **rothbardian** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 3:04 am

I couldn't resist resurrecting this thread from a couple of weeks ago. There are, in part, some colossal contradictions going on here. I find it fascinating how the liberals/socialists who predominate here at RI give the 'short shrift' to anyone they run across who has been known to tote a Bible at any point in their lifespan (Svali or Springmeier, for example). By contrast, a couple of months ago there was much huffing and puffing as many of you folks made the extra, EXTRA effort to sort out the comments of Maurice Strong. Although Strong is apparently a luciferian 'freak job', he nevertheless espouses some politically correct notions (about global warming etc.) and therefore 'merited' a full and fair hearing. So, many of you guys were scrambling to give him deferential treatment...and were very carefully sorting out his satanic views from his politically correct views (?). OK...whatever. But because Svali or Springmeier have darkened the door of a church a time or two...instead of applying the same 'rigorous intuition', their work and research is apparently held out at arm's length the same way one would extend a dead fish out to a garbage can. What is happening to the pursuit of philosophical integrity and intellectual honesty? Sloppily lumping Svali together with the so-called 'deliverance ministry' as if she were some wild-eyed pew jumper is ludicrous. Here is a direct quote from Svali the gives her view on simplistic 'deliverance ministry' techniques: "At best, this approach will cause extreme cynicism in a survivor who finds out that the voices and switching still continue after the “deliverance” and wonder why they can't be helped." ( <a href="http://home.mchsi.com/~ftio/warfare-healing-journey.htm">home.mchsi.com/~ftio/warf...ourney.htm</a> ) The above statement is a far cry from the impression someone might've received, in reading some of the comments in this thread. Have you read her work? There is some very strong stuff...and some significant insights. Her essay entitled "A Day in the Life of a Trainer" is spectacularly informative. And whether you like it or not, much of Springmeier's stuff has been corroborated over and over. Just like Maurice Strong, Springmeier shouldn't be given a blanket endorsement. BUT...if you want to claim consistency in your principles, then you should likewise carefully sort through Springmeier's research. Maybe he got 'snowed' by a source here or there. Maybe he got 'fanciful' here or there. I don't know. But much of his stuff is by all rights, very very interesting. His dissection of evangelist Billy Graham is a significant contribution to understanding how Luciferians have slithered into organized religion to play the role of 'pied pipers'. Instead of prejudicially broadbrushing Springmeier's work, you might view it as an opportunity and a tool to help win over some of the conservative and/or Christian folk from their currently deceived state. There were some comments made which seemed to give the impression that Springmeier is cozy with the 'fundy' crowd....that he has sort of 'played' to them. But people like Springmeier have been splicing and dicing these suspected Luciferians/Christian 'leaders' (Billy Graham, Pat Robertson etc.)...and utterly going against the grain amongst Bible-belt people. There is no Christian subculture that has welcomed him with open arms--- just the odd church or pastor, and sprinkling of individuals here and there. And finally...pretending that there is no huge backstory to this bank robbery thing in regards to Springmeier is pretty disturbing. For some of you here at RI to be wildly vacillating between hardedged critical thinking and rigorous intuition in your approach to the PTB media (and their dupes)...but on the other hand happily swallowing whole any negative or skewed reports about 'Christian' types...is HUGELY discrediting. Here for example is a quote from newsmakingnews.com regarding a retraction about Springmeier from the local media: "On April 16, 2001 KPDX Fox news broadcast a retraction that Fritz and Patricia Springmeier were members of the Army of God on the 10:00 p.m. news program. The retraction was as follows: "On March 2, 2001, we reported that Fritz and Patricia Springmeier were members of a group known as the Army of God. This statement was not factually supported and we regret this error." <a href="http://newsmakingnews.com/contents4,21,01.htm">newsmakingnews.com/contents4,21,01.htm</a> The point is-- there is a LOT more going on here-- there is a huge story here. PS: I want to point out that I agree with a lot of the observations made here. I am only addressing some of these specific issues.

by **rothbardian** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 5:03 pm

Let me reiterate the heart of my previous post, as it may be placed too deeply in the text: ...pretending that there is no huge backstory to this bank robbery thing in regards to Fritz Springmeier is extremely dubious and very disturbing. For some of you here at RI to be wildly vacillating between hard-edged critical thinking and rigorous intuition in your approach to the PTB media (and their dupes)...but on the other hand happily swallowing whole any negative or skewed reports about 'Christian' types...is HUGELY discrediting. ------- The important contributions of people like Svali are being marginalized here, because of her Christianity. Also, I can't figure why so many here, fail to connect the dots concerning the 'Illuminati'. If the term 'Illuminati' makes you break out in hives, substitute the word 'banana'. Some of you can't see that there is a huge organized effort to overtake the world? This a movement that goes back in history. You haven't noticed the luciferian hand sign that Pat Robertson used on his Time magazine cover, some years back? And the historic connection to people like Napoleon and Karl Marx? Here is the Time magazine cover (circa 1986): <a href="http://www.conspiracyworld.com/index0102.htm">www.conspiracyworld.com/index0102.htm</a> Here is Napoleon doing the same thing. (Notice the sphere with the pentegrams, by his left hand. There are probably ten other coded signals in this painting.): <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Napoleon_Bonaparte.jpg">en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ima...aparte.jpg</a> Here is Karl Marx, also flashing the 'Lion's Paw'. Notice the occultic crescent (horned) moon pendant he has very carefully placed over his wrist: <a href="http://www.historyguide.org/intellect/marx.html">www.historyguide.org/intellect/marx.html</a>

Deliverance ministries, ritual abuse and the ‘Illuminati’

Deliverance ministries, ritual abuse and the ‘Illuminati’

Re: Deliverance ministries, ritual abuse and the ‘Illuminati

Re: Deliverance ministries, ritual abuse and the ‘Illuminati

Re: Deliverance ministries, ritual abuse and the ‘Illuminati

This is a very interesting tangent

Re: Deliverance ministries, ritual abuse and the ‘Illuminati

Re: Deliverance ministries, ritual abuse and the ‘Illuminati

Re: not just slave, discreet slave

Re: Deliverance ministries, ritual abuse and the ‘Illuminati

Re: Deliverance ministries, ritual abuse and the ‘Illuminati

Re: Deliverance ministries, ritual abuse and the ‘Illuminati

Re: Deliverance ministries, ritual abuse and the ‘Illuminati

tapestry

I couldn't resist

Svali and the Bananati

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