1990: Ritual abuse prevalence study?

[biaothanatoi]

Just came across some interesting data from Britain - looks like a fairly comprehensive survey of organised paedophile activity in Britain in the late 1980s, with estimates of how many paedophile rings use ritual abuse to control children:<br><br>"Child sexual abuse survey carried out be 39 police forces."<br>19 October 1990<br>The Times<br><br>A total of 1,812 children have been sexually abused by 186 organised paedophile rings in the last three years, according to a survey among 39 of Britain's 52 police forces. <br><br>Conducted by BBC 2's Public Eye programme, to be broadcast tonight, the survey shows that there were 349 paedophiles operating in sex rings. Only five of the cases, however, involved allegations of satanic or ritual abuse. <br><br>and:<br><br>Ritual abuse occurs `in one in 40 child sex rings'. <br>By David Brindle, Social Services Correspondent <br>19 October 1990<br>The Guardian<br><br>Little more than one in 40 cases of child sex abuse rings involves allegations of ritual abuse, a survey of police records says today. <br><br>Of 186 cases of network abuse where either multiple abusers or multiple abused children were known to each other only five involved claims of ritual or satanic abuse. <br><br>The survey helps put into context the recent publicity of cases of alleged ritual abuse. It shows that child sex rings are typically groups of paedophiles abusing one or more children in a highly-organised way. <br><br>Thirty-nine (75 per cent) of the 52 police forces responded to the survey, for tonight's edition of the BBC 2 current affairs programme Public Eye, and 21 said they had evidence of rings. <br><br>These forces reported 186 such cases over the past three years, involving 1,812 victims and 349 abusers. <br><br>The disparity between forces' reports casts doubt on the survey, but the crude numbers do paint a rare picture of the extent of paedophile rings. <br><br>Superintendent Michael Hames, head of Scotland Yard's obscene publications squad, says in the programme that evidence of network abuse is growing fast. <p></p><i></i>

[Dreams End]

Wow. <p></p><i></i>

[marykmusic]

I believe that number's low.<br><br>Remember the Pascagoula church RA case last year? The DA admitted that they wouldn't pursue it as Satanic because it would make it harder to prove in court... despite the witnesses, evidence, and oobvious Satanic nature of the case. That skewed the case toward just child sexual abuse.<br><br>It's too scary to talk about black magick in our neighborhoods; difficult enough admitting that children are being exploited by the "nice folks" we know and deal with every day. Especially when a church is involved. --MaryK <p></p><i></i>

[biaothanatoi]

(From "<!--EZCODE UNDERLINE START--><span style="text-decoration:underline">Ritual abuse claims upheld in four cases</span><!--EZCODE UNDERLINE END-->", 26 September 1991, The Independent)<br><br>"Allegations of ritual abuse have been upheld in four wardship cases involving 24 children over the past two years, the Official Solicitor, David Venables. The majority are now in care. <br><br>These cases, though a tiny minority in terms of the 2,000 child abuse cases handled in the period, indicate that the courts are convinced that in certain instances ritual abuse has occurred ..."<br><br>"Mr Venables said that allegations of ritual abuse had featured in 48 cases involving 130 children over the past two years. Some have yet to come to court. <br><br>He said: "In the majority of these 48 cases, ritual abuse was not found. <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>In many cases there was no need to because the facts before the court showed that the children had been abused, so there was no need to press too hard down the ritual abuse road.</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> A great many of the children in the 48 cases were abused, but whether it happened in a quiet domestic context or where men were dancing around in funny hats was not really material." <br><br>(From "<!--EZCODE UNDERLINE START--><span style="text-decoration:underline">Expert sets record straight on dark realities of prositution: Conference an eye-opener for county social workers</span><!--EZCODE UNDERLINE END-->", Ellis E. Conklin, 14 December 1991, Seattle Post-Intelligencer)<br><br>"Citing a recent study, Neland said as many as 20 percent to 25 percent of prostitutes have participated in "ritual abuse," meaning they are approached by satanic cults and used as subjects in graphic underground films showing rape and group orgies."<br><br>Editorial: Some very interesting stuff there. <br><br>As a bit of background, the public "profile" of RA in Britain is much more about children being removed from their homes then it is about adults with "recovered memories". In Britain, social workers were/are blamed for RA, not therapists. <br><br>This adds an interesting dimension to the debate, because often the children have been removed due to "mundane" neglect and abuse anyway. You don't need to "prove" ritual abuse to keep them safe - they are in foster care due for other reasons. As the Official Solicitor says, it's often unnecessary to pursue the ritual angle in a court of law.<br><br>The second article on prostitution dovetails nicely with Boyd's "Blasphemous Rumours", a British book on ritual abuse from the early 90s, in which a social worker claims that prostitutes in London are offered thousands of pounds to carry unwanted pregnancies to full term, whereupon they sell the child. I wonder how much contact prostitutes are having with RA perps and RA in general? I'm sure nobody has bothered asking them - the skill of RA is only to involve people who have no credibility. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=biaothanatoi@rigorousintuition>biaothanatoi</A> at: 5/23/06 12:17 am<br></i>

[blanc]

some interesting figures in <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.policeoracle.com/news/print-detail.h2f?id=10350">www.policeoracle.com/news...f?id=10350</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br>"5,000 UK Children raped Every Year" article Sunday, May 14, 2006<br><br>Also, back to the nineties. If you buy the La Fontaine report from HMSO (a report commissioned by Virginia Bottomley when she was Min. in response to the furore and counter claims in the sra revelations at that period, which has been used ever since as debunk material) you will find in the forward acknowledgement of the help given by police officers of Scotland Yard. La Fontaine's report effectively swallowed their findings which referred to a spread of cases throughout the UK where police had taken evidence of RA, but this evidence was not presented at court, because it was not thought by CPS to be helpful in securing a conviction. So these cases had already gone over the following hurdles:-<br>victim finding the courage to report<br>police officer being straight and prepared to act<br>cps deciding to proceed with the case.<br>I am away from my desk - I think there were 86 of thse cases in that internal police report, but am not sure. It is not available to the public. I am mentioning this now because it illustrates further the point biao makes that not all cases in which ra features come to court as ra cases. Shall I repeat the met police joke - if you want to get away with child abuse wear a funny hat and chant something.<br>People find it hard to believe that other people, their neighbours, prat about in costumes and light candles - even harder to believe than that they abuse children, so the evidence gets left out. It gets left out too because a lot of it refers to magic tricks, by which I mean stage magician stuff or drug fuelled stuff which sound even more incredible than the hats and candles. Its one of the reasons why these practices are so popular with the abusing community - the fact that it sounds like fantasy is good cover.<br>The Police as a whole have selective amnesia problem. The ACPO spokesman for violent crime investigation recently wrote that his members, the Police Chiefs of England and Wales, could not recall a case of ritual abuse. (did someone slip them each a roofie?) <p></p><i></i>

[Dreams End]

It wasn't the numbers that interested me....just that this study was done and taken seriously. That doesn't happen here. <br><br>Of course the numbers are low as ALL child abuse report numbers are low. They have to get caught to be reported...and that doesn't happen nearly as often as the abuse itself. <br><br>Interesting about blaming the social workers. Sounds like bio believes that this is a source of abuse, and it reminds me of the weird cases of "fake" social workers going around asking about children that Jeff has written about. Lots of reports...no one knows who they were, etc.<br><br>I also would urge some bit of caution as I think there really are anti-progressive forces who seek to protect abuse and would spread such rumors to discredit child welfare agencies, but as I write this, I think about the miserable record of social service workers in this case (is there a prominent case of child abuse leading to death or serious injury that is not preceded by "social services investigated last year but did not find evidence of abuse" or of the kid simply having gotten lost by the system?) and realize that child welfare people are not very credible in my eyes. <p></p><i></i>

[marykmusic]

The stories we're hearing right here at home (see the Underground Railroad thread) indicate that the social workers in Child Protective Services (a government agency) are at the top of the list in being part of the ritual abuse going on right now and for many years. --MaryK <p></p><i></i>

[havanagilla]

thank you BIao, feels good to see that somewhere, someone has taken the time to research RA as real, existing, social problem and crime. Its a good sign that this will grow larger, as has been the case with trafficking in the last decade.<br>--<br>Social services...<br>I am sure they are primary target for SRA moles and protectors. The same way pedo go to work in childcare, schools, summer campsl, I am sure the rings are looking to plant social workers with access to lost children whom they can then abuse or take charge of. <br>In Israel, growing problem is that social services have become entangled half officially with Shabak, in order to train people to deal with internal organization problems and to put these people in arab populations for the obvious reasons ( a good placement for an operator, and to recruit collaborators, you can have them under the thumb and ALSO compensate them and their families becuase social workers have a lot of perks up their sleeve). I met already 2 social workers officially Shabak, so if they do it, the rings do it too. <br>--<br>The recent gang rape in the air force (which gradually turns out to be a monstrosity, of up to 70 men having sex with her,and actually her coming every night to dorms to entertain the guys..) raises many questions as the girl HAS BEEN under social services' close monitoring during the entire period. Where they pimping her ? who knows.<br>--<br>But yes, this trend will not bring the wanted results. The capitalists will see this as an excuse to abolish social services and child services, proving now they are rotten and useless, reinforced by the clients' claims. they do it all the time to annihilate social services and labor unions. So if you want to be responsible you either have to "gloss over" and cooperate with SRA, neglect and poor performance, and the likes, OR cooperated with the neo con economy. Again, its a no win situation. <p></p><i></i>

[biaothanatoi]

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Sounds like bio believes that this is a source of abuse, and it reminds me of the weird cases of "fake" social workers going around asking about children that Jeff has written about.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Sorry, DE, I was unclear. I meant that, in Britain, social workers have been blamed for "implanting" memories and/or encouraging children to "make up" disclosures of ritual abuse - whereas, in the states, therapists have been the main targets. <br><br>Psychs still get blamed in Britain, but basically RA came to the fore in Britain when children were removed from care after disclosing their ritual abuse - as opposed to the States, where the debate was about adult survivors disclosing in the context of therapy, or children on witness stands.<br><br>But you are right - there have been reports in America of "fake" social workers trying to nab kids. I've read a little more on this outside Jeff's blog - I'm just trying to think where. <p></p><i></i>

[blanc]

The problem of fake social worker DE raises is not a main issue - obviously anyone impersonating any official is a possibility and a danger, but in 2 main ways social workers have become meshed into abuse<br><br>first, as Biao writes there have been 'blame the social worker who removes the children' campaigns - still ongoing, and that was the situation which fuelled La Fontaine's report. A new twist to this is seen in France recently where the investigating judge who removed alleged perpetrators by putting them in custody during the investigation has suffered a kind of public humiliation, being televised in front of the all party ctee designated to look into the affair, in such a situation that he was unable to effectively defend his decision. This despite the essential fact that as well as the testimony of the victims, the police search turned up video material and a speculum in the house of the principal accused.<br><br>second, perhaps in response to this, social services have become reluctant to believe victims, even when medical evidence has existed to support claims. it is difficult to write about this briefly, because it involves the overall impression from numerous cases. The devil is in the detail. (this is the subject of some academic research just now, to which I and several others have contributed our experiences )<br>In general terms I think that because the 'wrongful' removal of children from family homes where abuse has taken place is resulting in social services being sued, there is a general tendency for social services to side with the biggest guns. These are invariably the perpetrators, who slam in with a ready prepared strategy for discrediting anyone who believes the child.<br>cases have included:-<br> the child is removed from the care of the protective parent and put in the care of the alleged perpetrator, or the care system, after the a.p. has appointed a psychiatrist to 'find' the protective parent to be suffering from a delusional mental illness. (In the face of overwhelming contrary evidence, and the child's testimony)<br><br> the social services have removed the child and stated their intention to break the child down and rebuild belief that the abuse did not happen<br><br>the social services have 'changed sides' several times, according to what they perceive as their interest being protected<br><br>social services have refused to have medical reports done, and then refused to admit medical reports done by known experts appointed by the protective parent on the grounds that they did not appoint the expert<br><br>the lawyer appointed by the protective parent has been found to be colluding with social services against the interest of the child<br><br>the lawyer representing the child's interest in the family courts has been threatened and backed off<br><br>and many, many more. <br><br>I understand that it is now quite hard to recruit social workers to the child care divisions. It is an area fraught with all of the dirty tricks of lawyers, and in defense of social workers I don't see how they can operate in the interests of the child under threat of litigation if they make a genuine mistake. Like with journalists, the legal dept rules.<br><br>It must be remembered that ra is by definition organised. It is organised crime against, mainly, children, and as in the other organised criminal activities, all the strategies are in place for dealing effectively with investigations and allegations. Asking social work teams to stand up against this is unrealistic. <br><br>I've left out the question of recruits. There is anecdotal evidence of recruits in social services and plenty of suspicions. Why would perpetrators neglect this link in the chain?<br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[Dreams End]

I did misunderstand bio, so thanks for the clarification. The fake social workers was not a general, ongoing phenomenon, but a concentrated period where this was happening all over the country in Britain. For some reason, I had always assumed there was some group like the Finders operating there and that was part of it. Jeff has even posted of similar waves of such sitings of clowns trying to kidnap children. My wife remembers when that was happening here in the US. Sounds like a joke but it is really creepy (and also off topic).<br><br>Here in the US we often find high profile cases of children being abused or killed after having been returned to custody by child protective services workers. How much of this is just overloaded caseworkers, poor training and heartless bureaucracy I don't know. There are no problems of social workers "implanting" memories. That's what therapists do, don't you know.<br><br>Bio is consistently pointing out all this objective material which, while not proving that RA is as widespread as activists indicate, goes a long way in that direction. Is there anyone out there putting all this in one place? A website or book? I know that victims get very upset about being asked to "prove" allegations of widespread abuse...but just the last couple of posts by bio go a long way toward painting a picture of these underground networks. <br><br>I'm aware of the two women doing <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.ritualabusetorture.org/research.htm">"kitchen table"</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> research where they are interviewing victims and looking for commonalities. (Actually that doesn't seem to be an active study anymore and is small and included victims of spousal abuse and a concentration camp survivor but 6 ra cases) They seem to have uncovered smaller, generational ra...not larger networks...however I imagine that such groups feed into the larger networks. And someone on this board has talked about how high level bad guys doing MC work will know who's out there doing this stuff and take advantage.<br><br>Anyway, every time I suggest that someone should put this sort of evidence together I feel like I step on toes...even bio's toes. So I must be saying it wrong because this sort of thing that bio is posting is what I had in mind. <p></p><i></i>

[blanc]

DE, I do spend a lot of time in a frustrating merry go round thought spin about how info about cases could be made available without either betraying confidences or putting people in danger. so far I haven't found an answer to this. <br>In part this is because, though cases have a great deal in common - that's why they are called ra of course, they are each very particular. As soon as I want to cite one, I think, hell, I'll have to leave out x and y , can't say z and so on. this leaves the substance of the case in fragments. <br>Two cases I'm involved with now have active threats hanging over them - in one of these the threat was delivered in the form of a vicious criminal assault in front of children. Its a touchy thing for a victim, because if they are identified by the perp group as giving useful info in a quiet way, to persons outside of the control of the perps who may become a nuisance, they may be attacked. conversely, if they are so free in outing themselves and their perps it becomes a strategy of proving them mad and their allegations baseless, so this is a kind of protection against reprisals of the most direct sort, but carries secondary dangers. One of these secondary dangers is that identifying yourself as a victim draws a whole new bunch of vultures to you. The victim who has usually during this time got serious health issues around the problems of returning memories, and/or bodily injury, never knows how or where they stand, or whom they can trust. Sometimes there are legal issues as well. So, being responsible for outing someone against their wishes would put one out of the way of getting further information about perp groups.<br>I don't know what kitchen table researchers you refer to. I know of four or five groups of people collecting info and trying to help ra victims as well as the agencies to whom these victims sometimes turn because they offer support to rape victims in general, or people who have had an abusive childhood etc.<br><br><br>You may suppose that changing names and places is enough to disguise cases, in most instances I don't think so. Questions important to the understanding of a case, such as for example, how the bodies are disposed of, are tied up with both locations and often the professions or the cover of the group. <br>Another problem is that we never give up hope that the forces of law and order will get their act together and open or re-open cases, so care must be taken not to let the perp group know how much we know, or contaminate evidence. That's why I only churn out frustratingly thin generalities about ra. I want to warn that it is out there, much more widespread than one would think from mainstream sources, and dangerous, but can't back this up with the details to prove it. people reading this can if they wish think I'm a fantasist, glory seeker or liar - nothing I can do about that. <p></p><i></i>