by thoughtographer » Thu May 25, 2006 8:04 am
<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>All these themes are present in RA, albiet with much larger dimensions. These men rape and murder purely to be amoral. <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>They want to transgress every rule and every line, just like Crowley tells them to</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->. When they get away with it - when nobody notices, when no charges are laid - they claim to be invisible to scrutiny and somehow metaphysically superior. They call themselves "masters" and "gods".<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>Please, do not take any of this as an apology for abuse -- ritual, or otherwise. I'm just as disgusted by it as everyone else. That should go without saying, but it often doesn't in the heat of the discussion.<br><br>Are you friends with these rapist Crowley disciples, or are you going on hearsay and speculation? On the surface, it would seem that the Crowley of legend would have appreciated the "credit" for the amoral chaos and disorder often attributed to his "teachings" -- the guy had a gigantic ego, and that's no secret -- but I'm not so sure he's not just a convenient (dead) scapegoat most of the time, especially the way he appears to be viewed within the "conspiracy theory" subcultures (like this one). Based on his relationship and views on what Jack Parsons made of his teachings alone, it's pretty clear that Crowley was often disappointed in the misappropriation and misapplication of his belief system. I don't feel bad for him, as this is a common, historically observable trap that self-styled "religious" leaders often fall into; they overestimate the ability of their disciples to comprehend their own abstracted, metaphysical world view.<br><br>You're making a pretty giant leap, as I understand your point; by taking the responsibility and blame off the individuals' motivations, and placing them squarely on the often myopic, not infrequently misanthropic teachings of questionably responsible "leaders", thinkers and authors ostensibly embraced by people within these subcultures. That ultimately leads to the slippery slope of limiting personal liberty, and by extension, the very core of what represents "freedom". Not to take that line of conjecture too far, I suppose what I'm asking is: just how widespread do you think the "practical" application of people like Crowley's ideas is? My educated guess is: not as much as people would often like, which is frightening for some, because dealing with individual motivations and circumstances is quite a bit "messier" than dealing with a perceived, unified ideology. In my younger days, I would have lumped someone like Rudolph Steiner in with Crowley based on the views of others, but the two couldn't be more different at even a cursory examination. Steiner's teachings are even applied to teaching children in school, as can be found in "Waldorf" schools all over the United States and elsewhere. I don't think that's a bad thing, but I would definitely read up on Steiner if I were planning to send my child to a Waldorf school. Elizabeth Clare Prophet took advantage of Montessori's openness and started spreading her paranoid, "occult" beliefs through schools that had the word "Montessori" in their name, but that doesn't make all Montessori schools guilty of her crimes -- it just means that people should know the complex histories that come along with names like that before they rush to judgment. There are many fine schools bearing the Montessori name, and I've met a lot of great people raised with the values and concepts taught by Dr. Maria Montessori. I won't let some goofball spoil things for the responsible people.<br><br>My view of mental health and illness is that the two are intricately interwoven; there is no "health" without "illness" -- no "bliss" without "suffering". This is why, as Philip K. Dick likes to point out, schizophrenic people are attracted to things like the I Ching; they're provided with an efficient reduction of the entire world in a symbolic, seemingly ordered system of thought -- this is why Philip gave many warnings regarding the potential danger in relying too much on these things, as he often did. His view of the I Ching was that it had great potential for "evil", and that potential can only be realized through blind reliance on the power of metaphysical thought-currents.<br><br>Sure, this stuff is frequently romanticized, but often times it's the "healthy" people responsible for that. People often only see the positive, creative power this way of thinking can unleash and pay no mind to the pleas for caution by the "artists" because that brings the fantasy of unlimited human potential to a screeching halt. I am often "mentally ill", but more often that illness is nowhere to be found from most observers perspective. As I see it, this is the case for everyone. Instead of bearing the brand placed on me with selfish pride or even shame, I simply shrug it off and realize that the only thing keeping me from becoming the monster that's lurking below the surface of every one of us. I take responsibility for my own actions by trying to understand the pitfalls that others fall into, and not blaming other people's ideas for my own problems. Extending that way of thinking to the rest of the world; I don't blame other people's "mentally ill" behavior on the ideas put forth by others.<br><br>I hate the fact that mindless cults everywhere prey on innocent, desperate people everyday and hide behind the thin veil of "religious freedom", but at the same time, I do not wish to see my own freedom quashed because of a few opportunistic assholes who amount to nothing more than horned, winged businessmen with no conscience or sense of responsibility to their fellow humans. $cientologee, as a business entity, clearly understands that they're responsible when they keep sick people locked up, crazy and shitting on themselves because they're just "practicing what they preach" -- especially when the people end up dying and they have to keep it a secret to protect themselves. Is it Crowley's fault that Hubbard took so many cues from him? Sure, maybe a bit -- but Hubbard is dead just like Crowley, and there are living, breathing assholes out there drinking deep from the bank accounts of innocent, confused, crazy people just like you and me.<br><br>Are there Thelemites, Freemasons, Scientologists, Christians and Satanists within the Military Industrial Complex? Sure! How many people from each of those schools of thought are participating in ritual abuse? Who knows. I wish I knew, but sometimes I'm glad that nobody really does, because it would just end up on the news, and so many innocent, law-abiding and kind people would suffer from the knee-jerk reactions of the public -- carrying torches in hand and ready to kill Doctor Frankenstein first, and THEN the poor monster, who had no real choice in any of this mess, and ultimately just wanted to feel loved like everyone else.<br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Ironically, a lot of RAers are mentally ill - dissociated, DID, etc. But I think the way that society understands "the paedophile" is complete crap. It's designed to make it look as though "paedophilia" is a internal psychological condition rather then a broader cultural issue (which it is - look at the prevalence figures!).<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>See above. I see no irony in it, but take it as a matter of course. Yes, it is a broader cultural issue, but I see that cultural issue as intertwined with the general view of "mental illness", which I consider simplistic at best. We, as humans populating the planet earth, are crazed. We'd rather revel in the cycles of tension and release that come along with blaming everyone else for what's wrong with the world than think for a second about taking any of the responsibility. This country (The United States of America) was started by Puritans, and will probably be destroyed by them, whatever name they happen to go by at the time. For all I know, they came in on an airplane this time, but I'm not about to blame things on immigrants.<br><br>(If I keep editing this monstrosity for syntax, grammar and spelling, I'll be at it all day, so I'll just stop now. Thanks for reading -- and if you made it this far -- congratulations, and thanks for the consideration.) <p><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"A crooked stick will cast a crooked shadow."</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=thoughtographer>thoughtographer</A> at: 5/25/06 7:17 am<br></i>
