gaza, israel...brief reminder

by **Sepka** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:07 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr> Its almost as if these acts are often designed to give the IDF carte Blanche. Perhaps we can have a close look at who really benefits from that ?<hr></blockquote> Over the long run, the Israeli hardliners benefit. Always and without exception. Were it an Israeli plot, as I assume you're thinking, it could be derailed quite easily by Hamas, or any of the other several dozen armed groups operating in the Gaza. All they'd need to do would be to kill the kidnappers, and free the hostage. Instead, they're vying to take credit. Over the short run, Hamas benefits, as they did from blowing up that family at the beach. They're desperate to keep Abbas' referendum from passing, and will do what's necessary to sow ill-will. -Sepka the Space Weasel

by **havanagilla** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:45 am

There are some signs that there is something fishy in this last kidnapping. Recent investigations and evidence by the wounded surviving soldiers from the tank indicate a bizarre, unusual behavior of IDF, in addition there are growing signs of dispute between GSS and IDF, with the IDF blaming the former and vice versae. However, Sepka is also correct that in order to derail the plot, there were things to be done, and which were not. But that's easier said than done when the field is so split and uncontrolled. -- Israeli hard liners are benefitting ? how about the USA is using the Israeli hard liners to promote its agenda, giving them a lot more power and presence than they actually have in the population ?? recently, there are signs of direct funcing of NGO's, think tanks, JOURNALISTS who promote US-hardline agenda in the guise of Israeli hard line interests. This is becoming quite visible. There is a trick there, because the "conneting" chain are Jews from the USA (like Pipes) who give the impression of "caring for israel, or being Jewish-zionist activists", when in fact their own CV indicate they have worked for the US gov and are therefore committed to the white house policies. Their agenda becomes even clearer when they viciously attack israelis who differ, and brand them as "traitors", something that definitely damages israeli social fabric and creates HAVOC here. Those who promote these interests are generously rewarded in economic terms. -- The friction among the top security officials (IDF vs GSS, and IDF vs. Military industry complex) indicate that there is no "acceptable" hard line agenda in Israel, rather this is a US sponsored havoc, shall we say, the usual havoc (eg Vietnam, Iraq etc.).

by **slimmouse** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:54 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Over the short run, Hamas benefits, as they did from blowing up that family at the beach. They're desperate to keep Abbas' referendum from passing, and will do what's necessary to sow ill-will.<hr></blockquote> Well, we all benefit from having you here sepka, since it is pretty clear exactly where youre coming from. Helps us all in our struggle with ourselves. Meanwhile, it is well documented that in order to create the "safe haven" for Israel in the region, the first task was to ethnically cleanse 3/4s of a million indigenous Palestinians from the region. Im wondering how Israelis or Palestinians benefitted exactly from the undoubted conflict within the region that this created ? In fact, Im wondering if you believe you benefitted, particularly since Dr Kissinger, having suggested in 1973 that Useless eaters like yourself and everyone else here needed to pay more for our energy, suddenly found a 6 day war between the PTBs agent provocateur in the region, and Egypt, which resulted in ? A four fold increase in fuel prices. Funny how these things work huh ?

by **AlicetheCurious** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:54 am

Sepka, sorry to disappoint you and the likes of you, but the Palestinian people refuse to die, and they're not going away. In the last 60 years, the Israelis have done everything possible to destroy them, from massacres and terrorism, to expulsion and the bulldozing of their towns and villages. They have been imprisoned in concentration camps, where they've been at the mercy of their occupiers, deprived of food, water and medical treatment. They've been subjected to every kind of abuse, including arbitrary arrest and imprisonment in horrible conditions, including of very young children. The Israelis have bulldozed their homes, sometimes while people were still inside. They've destroyed olive groves hundreds of years old, and built a wall between Palestinians and their lands, shooting people who tried to harvest their own crops. Israeli soldiers have punished unarmed teenaged Palestinian demonstrators by calmly holding them down and systematically breaking their bones with rocks. They've dropped bombs from the air on civilians, killing and maiming old people, men, women and children, indiscriminately, then preventing the survivors from receiving any medical care. They've deprived Palestinians of their own water, diverting it to the swimming pools and lush lawns of illegal settlements. In times of 'peace' (Oslo), the Israelis doubled the number of illegal Jewish-only settlements on Palestinian lands, and built Jewish-only roads to connect them, dividing the Palestinian territories into isolated bantustans. The Israelis have violated every law and convention governing the treatment of civilians under occupation. Somehow, the Palestinian people have survived, their determination to live free in their own land, undiminished. It's funny, even some Americans, infuriated by the erosion of their civil liberties by the Bush cabal, have been tempted to respond with violence. So, it shouldn't come as a surprise that among a people living under a brutal, relentless occupation, faced with genocide, there will be some who choose to fight back with violence, even at the cost of their own lives. The real surprise is that the majority do not. The majority of Palestinians have chosen to resist against their oppressors by nonviolent means. Nobody who has been to the Palestinian territories and visited their homes has failed to come away impressed and moved by the incredible warmth, generosity and humanity of these people under nightmarish conditions. Even the little they have is shared openly with those who have less. They banish despair by stubbornly maintaining their sense of humour, and by fighting against incredible odds to educate their children. Palestinians are among the most educated people on earth, despite the constant school closures, the check-points and the terrorism of Israeli soldiers, who have shot small children to death right in their classrooms. Despite the siege of Palestine, the Israeli prevention of goods, services and human from entering or leaving the occupied territories, the Palestinians have used their ingenuity and creativity, even risked their lives, to make sure that their news gets out to the rest of the world. Incredibly, under constant danger, Palestinians continue to make valuable contributions to the arts, including drama, painting, photography, poetry and music. The majority of Palestinians continue to go out to demonstrate peacefully against the occupation and against the constant human rights abuses, even at the risk of being shot or brutally beaten by the cowardly Israeli soldiers, hiding behind their tanks to shoot children. The majority of Palestinians demand nothing more than their legal and human rights, and have exhausted every legal and peaceful means for doing so. For their efforts, they have been dealt with as subhumans with no rights and no voice, while Israeli war criminals and mass murderers have been hailed as heroes or 'men of peace'. Sepka, you have proven over and over that you are an ignorant and hateful racist, beneath my contempt. I no longer expect you to defend your offensive views, since you've weaseled out of every chance you've had so far. It does take all kinds to make a world: some of us try to make the world a more humane place, while others spew hatred when they're not jerking off in a bunny suit. If there's any justice in the world, I pray that each of us gets exactly what they wish for others.

by jc » Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:32 am

hava, <blockquote>Quote:<hr>I say, its not too late to bomb germany <hr></blockquote> you're not serious, are you? you really mean this?

by **havanagilla** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:35 pm

jc, i am not entirely unserious, though I don't have a plan, if that's what you mean. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=havanagilla>havanagilla</A> at: 6/27/06 4:24 pm

by jc » Tue Jun 27, 2006 8:44 pm

i fail to see how that might solve anything. but if you do whip up a plan, can you at least wait until my side has won the WC? Allez les Bleus!

by **Gouda** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 1:53 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Israel turned up the pressure on Palestinian militants to release a captive soldier Wednesday, sending its warplanes to bomb a Hamas training camp after knocking out electricity and water supplies for most of the 1.3 million residents of the Gaza Strip.<hr></blockquote> <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/fc/world/mideast_conflict">news.yahoo.com/fc/world/mideast_conflict</a> Hamas made me do it! Who needs water anyway; no biggie, just a little pressure...

by **havanagilla** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 3:54 pm

JC, i don't know how violence changes anything, but apparently it does, and this is how the world works. People need release, vengence is also recognized in justice, etc. Not condoning it, and was only fantasizing (as was the item brought by Jeff in his blog about the journalist who wrote how he would like to think about Bush dying). we are humans. I know that there is a bizarre taboo around revenge fantasies on the Nazis, for some reason. There was Dresden, I don't condone it, I read Kurt Vonnegut, too. But for some reason the most normal response, namely jews wanting to avenge the holocaust was never fully processed or even discussed in movies, sci-fi whatever. it is a big taboo, even in Israel. That has bad effects, IMHO, the need to "kill" the natural instinct before it has been fully processed and acted on, in some way. I mentioned it could very well be the reason for the overkill re the palestinians. it also led to some kind of identification with the aggressor, as the outlet for anger and helplessness. bad result, IMHO. --- On edit, another thought about it JC. Two years ago I met a Nazi, a real one, in canada, while looking to rent a place. He was very old, and was an artist and had a small farm. We started the most surreal conversation, and he was very honest and even likable in a way, saying how young he was and carried away and how he spent then 5 years in Soviet POW slave labor camps where "he cooled off" as he said. I have to confess that this was a challenge for me. He also added that "now people undestand better how this happens, because of what is happening NOW in the USA and in Israel". While we would here be saying very harsh things about ...say...a veteran of the CIA or something, actually talking about a real nazi become mystified, paralyzing, they are shrouded with aura of otherworldliness, soon we will all have to feel SORRY for them. Well, for me it was a proof that things were NOT settled. I didn't feel strong, protected validated...I felt ashamed, afraid, apologetic. And this was canada, freeworld, 2004. It shouldn't be that way. (I had mentioned it somewhere saying that these guys are always too young or too old to be prosecuted..). He is rich, safe, happy go lucky, his son is a dentist (BBRRRRRRRR....MArathon man..), and he was obviously condecsending, telling me "I never let these things get in my way for a good life. i came where it was good. here.".and indeed he has a nice life and good future for his offsrings. at the same time, I wasn't so lucky, was I ? I would happily be processed in canada as a war criminal simply for being ISRAELI ! the world isn't fair, it appears, so our responses should be more on a gut level, including the righteous anger/violence (MARX said that, not I). -- Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=havanagilla>havanagilla</A> at: 6/28/06 2:01 pm

by **4911** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 4:03 pm

the difficult thing to understand i think is that the only way to beat violence or aggression is to forgive it. Not only is that hard to understand, its also frikkin hard to do.

by **havanagilla** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 5:56 pm

totally agree with you about forgiveness, but it has to be IT and not fear, or ducking or pretense. Certainly, there was (and is no) forgiveness among Israelis/Jews, and so the agreements between Israel and germany post ww2, were not based on consensus, processing, mourning and acceptance. they were based on corruption to the best of my understanding. so, this in a way is worse than leaving it an open conflict, which could then lead to real forgiveness. You are on the spot with the main problem of Israel, though. the concept of forgiveness does not exist here, it is something of a hell, made up of people revenging each other all the time. I tend to think it has something to do with "floating" anger that was not allowed to really heal. The germans of course (and the americans) had the most of gain from this agreement (in addition to israel, financially rewarded for this "forgiveness).

by jc » Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:56 pm

hava, i get vengeance, and it's relation to justice in the legal sense. what i don't get is "collective guilt." (not suggesting that you promote that mind.) i'm just wary of broadbrushing. nor do i believe a child inherits the sins of his ancestors, so punishing the 20 year old grand child of someone who parttook in the holocaust to me, would spell injustice. sometimes i think it would have been prudent to have had the surviving jews meet their persecutors at nurnberg. [on edit: they should've had the opportunity to question someone like that old party member you met in canada. even you, but not as you did there, on his turf, in his safe haven, you know. but in a place where he had to face you on as equal a footing as possible. somewhere he could't hide. as i feel he did in your case: it's past, i was young, i'm succesful, my children, my life, i paid in siberia, whatever. where he could like brush you off. where you, for crying out loud, felt like you were out of line.] i don't know if it would have made a difference, i only think it might. i also think they should have been asked to weigh in on the form of retaliation meted: prison, death, even a life sentence to israel working at building or on a kibbutz, and clearly marked or something. i think, and i may be wrong, but i think some of the criminals at the time got off a bit too easily. it was too much of a show trial to assuage the "guilt" of those who stood by, ie the west, or whatever. i think the same of israel to a certain extent. a lot of people went along with that in a manner that seems to suggest: phew, good they're shipping out, i won't have to look them in the eye. anyway, i appreciate your thoughts and candor. peace on edit: re what you say about forgiveness. it's only possible between people who recognize each other as human. it works both ways. you can't forgive some gross beast you've never met in person. nor would he value your forgiveness if he had no sense of your humanity. whatever the case, the victim, as i stated should have part in the call, whatever it is within the confines of the law. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=jc@rigorousintuition>jc</A> at: 6/28/06 6:06 pm

by jc » Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:14 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Syria fires on Israeli jets  Associated Press Wednesday June 28, 2006 Air defences fired on Israeli warplanes that entered Syrian airspace early today and forced them to flee, according to state-run Syrian TV, as tensions escalated over the kidnapping of an Israeli soldier by Palestinian militants. Israel said its planes buzzed the summer residence of Syrian President Bashar Assad in the Mediterranean coastal city of Latakia, flying low enough to cause a noise on the ground. Israeli officials said on condition of anonymity that Assad was targeted because of the "direct link" between Syria and Hamas, the Palestinian militant group holding Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit, 19, in the Gaza Strip. Syria hosts Khaled Meshaal, Hamas' exiled supreme leader… <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1808135,00.html">www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1808135,00.html</a><hr></blockquote> this next from Kos no less… <blockquote>Quote:<hr> This kinda makes me dislike Israel (w/poll) by Richard Carlucci Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 12:48:37 PM PDT Israel gets an unfair rap from a lot of sources in the world - Iran, Hamas, the KKK, nutjobs who think they rule the world through Hollywood and banking, etc - so it's hard to criticize the country without A)lumping yourself in with the crazies and B)feeling like you're adding more to an already unnecessarily large pile. The fact that Israel's knee-jerk reaction to every criticism it receives is to cry anti-semitism also does its part to discourage... but I digress... There are times, however, when I must ignore the urge to restrain myself and let it all hang loose in the open. This is one of those times: I'm sick and fucking tired of defending these assholes… <hr></blockquote> <a href="http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/6/28/154837/147">www.dailykos.com/story/2006/6/28/154837/147</a> and the next is from Haaretz… <blockquote>Quote:<hr> Ultra-Orthodox Jews attack Christian tourists in Jerusalem  By Jonathan Lis, Haaretz Correspondent A group of 50 pro-Israel Christian tourists came under attack Wednesday from some 100 residents of the ultra-Orthodox neighborhood of Mea She'arim in Jerusalem. Three of the tourists and a police officer were wounded in the attack. They received treatment at the scene. The tourists arrived at Mea She'arim wearing orange T-shirts with the words "Love your neighbor as yourself" printed across them. As they neared one of the squares, the local residents apparently identified them as Christians and began to hit them. Police forces in the area stepped in to stop the violence, but did not make any arrests. Police say they are waiting for the tourists to file official complaints.<hr></blockquote> <a href="http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/732437.html">www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/732437.html</a> things heating up or am i just nervous? Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=jc@rigorousintuition>jc</A> at: 6/28/06 6:54 pm

by **Iroquois** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:44 pm

This is really getting out of hand fast. When Israeli troops unilaterally withdrew from the occupied territories, my gut reaction was that they were clearing friendlies from the battle field. It's beginning to sound like I wasn't being too cynical after all. From the International Herald Tribune: <blockquote>Quote:<hr> Israelis threaten a broader action By Ian Fisher and Steven Erlanger The New York Times THURSDAY, JUNE 29, 2006 RAFAH, Gaza Israel on Wednesday stepped up its confrontation with the Palestinians over the capture of an Israeli soldier and threatened an even broader response - including a strike at Syria - if he was not freed. Israel fired artillery shells into areas in northern Gaza where Palestinians often fire Qassam rockets into Israel, preparing for a possible incursion. The military also flew four warplanes over the house of President Bashar Assad of Syria, a blunt message, the Israelis said, that he should help in freeing the soldier, Corporal Gilad Shalit. As Israeli tanks hunkered down inside southern Gaza at the airport here and fighter planes knocked out half of Gaza's electricity, there were no signs that the confrontation would ease. Rather, the crisis seemed to be tipping toward wider violence. The Israeli defense minister, Amir Peretz, on Wednesday approved an extension of the Israeli push into northern Gaza, in particular toward the towns of Sderot and Ashkelon. At about 9 p.m., after reportedly dropping leaflets urging citizens of Beit Hanoun and Beit Lahiya to leave their homes, Israeli artillery batteries began to fire, with rounds hitting areas darkened by power cuts every 45 seconds or so. Palestinian leaders continued to insist on an exchange of the soldier for the release of women and minors from Israeli prisons - a condition that Prime Minister Ehud Olmert vowed would not be considered. The choice, Israeli officials said, was the soldier's unconditional release or an escalation that could widen the conflict regionally. Haim Ramon, Israel's justice minister, raised the possibility of a strike in Syria to kill Khaled Meshal, an exiled political leader of Hamas. Referring to Shalit, 19, who was captured near Gaza on Sunday by Hamas fighters, Olmert said: "We won't hesitate to carry out extreme action to bring Gilad back to his family. All the military activity that started overnight will continue in the coming days. "We do not intend to re-occupy Gaza," he said in a speech in Jerusalem. "We have one objective, and that is to bring Gilad home." In what the Israelis said was a message to Assad, four Israeli warplanes flew over his residence in Latakia, in northwest Syria, where he was believed to be staying, Israeli officials said. Assad is the host in Syria of Meshal, the Hamas leader whom Israel and Fatah have blamed for ordering the raid into Israel, in which two Israeli soldiers were killed and four were wounded, including Shalit. Syria said its air defenses fired on the Israeli planes, "which dispersed and left the region," according to the Syrian news agency SANA. Syria called the flyover "an unjustified and rejected provocation." Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian president, condemned Israel's attacks on infrastructure in Gaza, which completely disabled its only power plant and knocked down three bridges on the north-to-south roads. In a statement, Abbas said he considered "the aggression that targeted the civilian infrastructures as collective punishment and crimes against humanity." In Gaza, meanwhile, the Popular Resistance Committees, a group with ties to Hamas, displayed the identity card of an 18-year-old Israeli settler, Eliahu Asheri, whom it claimed to have kidnapped in the West Bank. Militants said they would kill him if Israel did not halt its operations in Gaza. Israeli media also carried unconfirmed reports that a 60-year-old Israeli missing for two days had been abducted. But for all the saber-rattling on both sides - masked Palestinian militants continued to threaten Israeli troops here - there was comparatively little bloodshed on Wednesday. Two Palestinians, aged 2 and 17, were reportedly killed Wednesday while playing with an unexploded Israeli shell in the southern town of Khan Yunis. But there were no reported casualties in Israeli airstrikes, also carried out at a Hamas training camp here and in areas in the north used by militants to shoot rockets into Israel. Unlike other Israeli incursions in Gaza, there have been no reported skirmishes between the military and Palestinian militants, though the Israelis stayed largely out of reach, dug in at the airport. The airport, Israeli military officials said, will act as a staging ground for an operation that will progressively escalate until Gilad, said to be wounded but alive after the attack, was freed. Beyond the specific issue of Gilad, the standoff also underscored far broader, and typically complicated, political goals on both sides. For Israelis, the operation is also aimed at deterring Hamas, which now leads the Palestinian government, from carrying out similar attacks in the future and to end rocket attacks from Gaza. Israeli newspapers carried articles speaking of the attacks on the infrastructure as a way to extract a concrete longer-term cost for the actions of Palestinians' leaders. For many Palestinians in Gaza, the refusal to back down seemed a collective effort to highlight their own sense of grievance. The economy has broken down under an embargo of Western aid since Hamas took power in January. The Palestinians remain under siege, they say, despite the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza last year, with their borders often closed and encircled by Israeli warplanes and ships. There remains widespread approval for the capture of Gilad and Hamas's demand for an exchange, given that there are nearly 9,000 Palestinians in Israeli jails, among them 95 women and 313 men under the age of 18. "There is support for this because I am not safe when I walk on the street," said Mustafa Raghib, director of Gaza's largest flour mill. He was forced to shut it down for several hours after the electricity was cut. "I don't live a good life. I am not safe in my country. Give me a good life and I will not support actions like this." Israeli leaders said Wednesday that they had ordered the military forward after seeing little progress on diplomatic efforts - including by Egypt and France - to free Gilad, who also holds French citizenship. Amid sonic booms that shattered windows, Israeli planes hit the three bridges and Apache helicopters targeted all six of the transformers at the power plant - an attack Israeli officials said was necessary to make any transfer of Gilad more difficult. "Nobody understands the logic," Rafik Maliha, the plant's manager, said as firefighters worked to keep down smoke that still rose hours after the attacks. "They want to keep people in the dark so kidnappers don't move? What's the relationship?" He added: "If there is no electricity, there is no water. It is more than collective punishment." Both Palestinian and Israeli officials said the plant, built by Norway and run by oil subsidized by the European Union, provided 42 percent of the power to Gaza's 1.3 million residents, and now Gaza is completely dependent on Israel for its power. Maliha said it would take as long as a year to replace the transformers, at a cost of more than $1 million each. On Tuesday, Palestinian negotiators from Fatah, Hamas and other factions rushed to finish a draft of a unified political program, based on a document compiled in May by Palestinian prisoners. <hr></blockquote> URL: <a href="http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/06/28/news/mideast.php">www.iht.com/articles/2006...ideast.php</a> On edit: I seem to be doing something wrong after previewing my posts. I keep losing the edits. The following is added: I also wanted to mention that Egypt is bolstering its troop levels along the border with Gaza, likely to keep the Palestinians from finding refuge in Egypt. Then I ran across this: Israel is for the first time, officially acting as a participant in NATO exercises. URL: <a href="http://www.theeveningbulletin.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=16859554&BRD=2737&PAG=461&dept_id=576361&rfi=6">www.theeveningbulletin.co...6361&rfi=6</a> Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=iroquois@rigorousintuition>Iroquois</A> at: 6/28/06 9:25 pm

by **havanagilla** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 10:26 pm

JC, i totally agree with you. as for "ancestral" guilt or punishment. well, i don't know what to say, since I certainly feel the weight of MY ancestral guilt, crimes, failures...and so I imagine the same goes for germans or what not. The "carry over" of demands from Israel, placed on germany (this is ongoing issue here, of ever increasing financial claims against germany re the holocaust, "second generation" trauma etc., banks, insurance, pensions, art treasures, trains, whatever) is a proof that the agreements were a mistake and they also prevent healing. It so happens now that Israel purposefully neglects old survivors, so as to create "ugly pictures" to get more money from germany, this money IS NOT being paid to the victims. These are additional corrupting behaviors that perpetuate the "holocaust" in a way. the entire situation is sick. So, the burden is passed to the next generation ANYWAY, only it translates into something else. My encounter with "the Nazi" was very symbolic, and the worst part is that even by the standards of MY government he is given preferential treatment to his victims, on the assumption of "let's move on". If I feel fear from germans, then things DO get passed on from other generations, and my folks weren't there at all, only to the degree of grandparents' siblings. A palestinian can look at me and say, "she has my home, that's why she is educated, blah blah" and I can certainly say the same about the old fart from canada, who 'took my future', well literally in the case of canada. one generation is not erasing it, and see the blacks and the native americans in the USA, did they "forgive" ? you sometime SEE your home inhabitted by someone else. not an easy challenge. -- As i hinted elsewhere, there are some subtler involvements by germany here, which raise more than eye brows. Such as in medical and other human experimentation, the relations are sick, and resembling the "kapo/judenrat" model, only slightly different. Just to give you a very fresh example from my life here. Yesterday I posted a benign trivial blog about Buffet/Gates announcement (re the new huge Foundation they formed). A backtalk person (quite a chronic backtalker here in israel) added something like "look at the Goyim, at least they are giving something back to the community, and our PIGs (the local rich) took our property and give nothing". So another blogger, writes to ME, there, that I am as bad as Julius Schtriecher (famous Nazi) for letting this badmouthing of Jews on my blog. Not less than Schtreicher, and he goes on to "proving" I am a nazi, for writing social critique. Now, this is NOT NORMAL conduct. And I doubt you will see that elsewhere in the world, and so...it is HERE daily, anyway. I felt sick to the stomach. -- Yes. the situation is becoming HOT here, as the heat too is becoming unbearable this month. The attack on the christians, well I see it as a 'good sign" in a way (sorry, all christians), maybe a bit of awakening from the alliance with the fundies here, and post Abramoff stress disorder. Let them kick some white christian ass instead of arabs...

gaza, israel...brief reminder

Re: Funny you should say that Sepka.

Re: Funny you should say that Sepka.

We all benefit from having you here...

Re: Funny you should say that Sepka.

Re: The empire in action........

Re: The empire in action........

Re: The empire in action........

Re: The empire in action........

Re: The empire in action........

Re: The empire in action........

Re: The empire in action........

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oh, and there's this…

Re; Power plant in Gaza hit

Re: Re; Power plant in Gaza hit

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