any suggestions how to survive the coming war ?

[havanagila]

After reading GW's speech, it seems like there is no way out of the coming conflict with Iran, and I am in total despair, over my personal situation. Having to be a bit selfish, not really caring about "the world", I am afraid and wary and experiencing a sense of deep futility (?). Spending one's entire life in war, is really a waste of time, one is better not born at all.<br>What concerns me is the nature of this war, much like Iraq, is not a cataclismic severe event, rather a process of gradually increasing number of various atoricities, both military but also otherwise, economical, social, psychological. Whereas in the past, "war" was a brief scare, with relief thereafter, now war is a dehumanizing, long, endless , ever worse, process.<br>--<br>since I lost all attachment to nationalism...I have no stakes in the outcome (who "wins"), except survival. And ironically, it is not at all clear whose victory promises more survival...and to whom. <br>I will hope for a miracle, like a sudden medical problem of Bush that will reshuffle things and give us a breather here, till things settle down, but perhaps Bush beat the fate he was assigned by the angry gods. It is amazing how he runs the chorus...and they all obey. Maybe I will win the lottery and be able to get out. <br><br>I have one echo of a voice ringing in my mind. It was a lady from a center supposed to help newcomers abroad from "troubled regions". After they sold me back to the government, she said over the phone "are you still alive ?" with some disappointment in her voice....She thought, speculated, that once back in the hands of my gov't I'll be executed somehow. Well, tough luck for her, but staying alive, sometimes, is not so much different than dying. Now, they are telling us here "there is smell of war", meaning, fuck off or you'll get hurt. During time, human life is not so important.<br>for me , it remained as the voice of the world, as it watches others dying in war. I am sure this is how Iraqis now feel as well. indifference. thick glass. you are on your own. we are too busy. <br> <p></p><i></i>

[Dreams End]

I'm sorry not to answer your question...but I had a question for you. Does the Israeli establishment really preach that war with Iran will make Israel safer? Does anyone buy that logic? I mean, it's one thing for Bush to say it...Iran can't hit mainland U.S. (as far as I know.) But it's quite another for your own leaders to say so. Is there consensus? Bitter division in the government? How about among the citizens. Can you tell us exactly HOW the government tries to justify this very dubious logic? Very curious about that.<br><br>If this is what I think it is...then it will be more about provoking fear and maybe no missiles will actually fall. I hope so, anyway. Unless Iran is already in on the deal behind the scenes, I can't see any way the US/Israel would actually launch an attack. It's nice when my cynicism leads me to the OPTIMISTIC scenario. <p></p><i></i>

[antiaristo]

havanagila,<br>Doubtless this will all sound trite. I've never survived a fighting war, but I've survived an economic war.<br><br>You have to realise we are all alone when the chips are down. All we have is our own mind and our own body. When I realised that, I realised I had to make both as strong as they could possibly be.<br><br>I was a typically sedentary executive. Fat, lazy, drove everywhere, no exersise, used my money to buy my way through life. I smoked about fifteen small cigars a day, and never got anywhere when I tried the gym.<br><br>But my new circumstances galvanised me, and provided all it is that we really need, which is motivation. People were coming after me, and if they got me I wanted to take down as many as I could.<br><br>From that simple motivation so much that is good flowed. I can't think of it as anything other than a case of God's grace flowing through me. I began to feel good about myself for the first time (money does NOT make us happy, believe me).<br><br>The gym instructors started to take note. How often is it that a forty year old slob comes in and transforms himself before their very eyes? I realised others were jealous of me - yet my self image had been that of a victim, cheated by the powerful, and being hunted across the country. And for the first time in my life, young women began to flirt with me. That's powerful medicine. And it happened because all those nice things were NOT the purpose. The whole purpose was to fight back against those evil rotten bastards that had destroyed my family.<br><br>I'm a one finger typist, and this has taken a while. Can you see what I'm getting at. It's important to DO SOMETHING, and stick to it. <p></p><i></i>

[Floyd Smoots]

antiaristo and havanagila, I really, Really, REALLY, don't want to appear simplistic to you dear fellow humans here; but, I would ask you to read (if you haven't already) my posted answer to slimmouse on the "utopian daydreams" thread. I'm really not trying to "twit" you in any way; it's just that I actually and firmly believe that there is no other way out of this mess, except belief in God, Himself, and His only son, Jesus Christ.<br><br>If I didn't belive in Them, as I do, I would truly be so without hope that I would choose one of my favo(u)rite firearms, and just blow my brains out. My belief in the Holy Bible is the only thing these evil days that really gives me any hope at all. As I post, I am in no way wealthy by any system of measurement, BUT, thanks, I belive, to God Almighty, I have not gone wanting, unlike most of the hapless inhabitants of this fair planet.<br><br>To quote "Forrest Gump", "And that's all I have to say about that.".<br><br>Vaya Con Dios,<br>Floydo<br> <p></p><i></i>

[slimmouse]

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I'm a one finger typist, and this has taken a while.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br> <br><br> Anyone got a disc of 'Mavis Beacon' to send to JC ?<br><br> Learning to touch type, One of the best things I ever did. I was 41 when I learned BTW, so its not too late John. Prepare to have the shit frustrated out of ya, as the neurons try and move the fingers in relation to the thought. <br><br> But well worth the effort. <br><br> Im at about 40 WPM, and actually a relatively hopeless case. 60 WPM ( words per minute ) is par for the course<br><br> But for all the failings of our system, Mavis sure taught me a thing or 2 . Fortunately for free <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START ;) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>

[Iroquois]

havanagila,<br><br>However hard relocating may be, it may be far easier than trying to survive where you are now if current trends progress the way many suspect. If your gut says you aren't where you are supposed to be, make getting out of there your new number one priority. You may have to make some sacrifices, but that's what survival is all about.<br><br>Depending on where you are when you do hunker down, but especially in your current location, potable water will be your most critical resource. Start caching some now as well as means for collecting, filtering, and purifying future sources. Food, arms, warm clothing, and tools go without saying. If you have a network of people you can rely on, try to get them working with you on this.<br><br>And, the most important thing if you are in an area occupied by troops, whether they are "friendly" or not, your survival will depend on your ability to meet your most basic needs while staying invisible. Think of that when you plot the location of your shelter in relation to your food/water supplies.<br><br>And, listen to antiaristo. The stronger you make yourself now while you have the time to exercise and food is plentiful the better. But, packing on a few pounds may not actually be a bad idea. My current training regime mainly involves depleting my well-stocked snack drawer at work and eating plenty of hot fudge sundays. I'll start doing the whole hiking/backpacking thing any day now, honest. <p></p><i></i>

[antiaristo]

Floyd,<br>I think that's what I do.<br>My model is the Sermon on the Mount.<br>The Beatitudes, delivered by a Jew.<br>But I can't abide anything that is divisive, which is really the same as slim is saying.<br><br>The trouble with the way you express your enthusiasm is that it comes across as divisive.<br><br>Do you know that havanagila is a female Jew?<br>How do you think it feels for her to be told that all salvation lies with Jesus Christ?<br><br>I'm going to quote something I wrote to my eldest daughter, who has suffered terribly from my absence.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>So let me give you some advice. Try to look at the world through the other’s eyes, and try to understand how they feel and why they feel that way. THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT SKILL YOU WILL LEARN IN YOUR LIFE.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <br><br>That's what I believe. <p></p><i></i>

[antiaristo]

Hah! That's what I mean.<br>That last effort took me about twenty minutes.<br>In the meantime there were two more posts!<br><br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Anyone got a disc of 'Mavis Beacon' to send to JC ?<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Who she, slim?<br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[Floyd Smoots]

Hey, slimmie, my Mama encouraged me to take Typing class in "Ice Cool" (high school?) in 1965, when I was only 17. She promised me that I wouldn't regret it. This was in Virginia, USA. I was getting a little teasing from my fellow males at the time, because it was a "girl's thing". They quit laughing when they found out that I was the only guy in the class of about 30 people. I met a lot of cute chicks there.<br><br>Fast forward to 1970 when I found myself in the U.S. Navy Radio School typing class with people who had never learned to type. It goes without saying that I "aced" that 5 day, 40 hour course, and even became a helper to many of my classmates. I actually hit 60 w.p.m. back then. Now, if you could see me at my keyboard, you would be ROFL!!!<br><br>Between old age (5<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START 8) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/glasses.gif ALT="8)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> , beer, nerve degeneration, and this all-too-sensitive, touchy keyboard, you wouldn't believe how many backspaces it has taken me to bring you this least important reply to your post. But, keep on blogging, brother, until they take this last, best hope, bastion of freedom away from us, too!!!<br><br>I'm NOT trolling here, just asking, if you wish to disclose, how old are you, Fellow Freedom Lover? If you wish non-disclosure, then follow the suggestion of former First Lady, Nancy Reagan, and "just say 'NO'".<br><br>Yer Pal, Floyd<br> <p></p><i></i>

[Floyd Smoots]

antiaristo, I didn't know that havanagila was female, but I Rigorously Intuited that "she" was a Jew. I posted NOT to disparage her, nor you, but to try to point her (and you) towards the Most Important Jew that we Christians believe ever lived.<br><br>We do not impugn, nor disparage His Jewishness, but, in our own limited way (Saint Paul, "ne" Saul), try to point out to the whole world, that we believe that that partular Jew actually was the complete fulfillment of all the prophecies of the Old Testament, which our Jewish brothers & sisters call the Torah. <br><br>We truly believe that He, Jesus (Yeshua Ben Yahweh), was, and is the Messiah, who Is, Was, and Always Will Be. You don't have to agree with this 2000 year-old-theory. It is, as always, a matter of choice.<br><br>Speaking of "free speech", which, we actually weren't, why is it, that all of us haven't seen many (any?) posts here on R.I., defending the "faith" of Islam??? Just askin', don't you know???<br><br>........Brother Floyd<br> <p></p><i></i>

[Hugh Manatee Wins]

...since Iran is planning a Euro-base oil bourse in March that could start the end of the already worthless dollar. This is why the war is seen as inevitable. It is a war for the emperor's clothes.<br><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[havanagila]

Probably you are correct HMW, this just makes this charade more monstrous, if you (in that case I) have to live on the edge of it.<br>--<br>DE, the range of opinions is almost similar to that in the USA, but more accentuated. Namely, the mob is a mob, and some people are accutely aware of the scam, but are pretty powerless to stop the train or jump off.<br>--<br>Bottom line, Bush is buying the election here, pretty blatantly this time, so any opposition to his plan is marginalized, but its THERE, also among security community. The only thing one can do now to stop/slow the momentum, is to assassinate key figures - or implicate them in their own crimes (corruption) via the justice system, but then how many can you ? <br>--<br>My point in this thread was to re-enact, quite masochistically the real and true sense of indifference, in juxtaposition to the very loud talk about Israel/ Jews. <br>As for Jesus, well, I'm sure here's a great guy, how is that related to the war here ? Floyd, I am defending the faith of Islam as well. Its just that the SOME Christians seem to be the missionaries of this world, for some reason. IN my psychology 101, if someone feels a compulsion to convert ALL the world, their faith is very shaky inside.<br>PErsonally, I think it is not Judaism that frightens the Bushies and the fascists/nazis, it is <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Jewish secularism</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->. <br>---<br><br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=havanagila>havanagila</A> at: 2/2/06 2:26 am<br></i>

[havanagila]

Interestingly today, haaretz reports some fishy corruption in the police investigation of a RUssian Oligarch Gaidamek, who made his fortunes in France and in stinking dealings in Angola (he bought the Angolan national debt to Russia). Anyway, he is wanted by french police, re money laundering and bribe.<br>--<br>But that's not the point. In today's feature, Haaretz tells us that Gaidamek is holding - Russian, Israeli, French and <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Canadian</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> citizenships ! Lo and behold, while the governments of the world are expelling exploited workers and war refugees - who is receiving generous citizenships all over ?<br><br>---<br>All those people here who criticize Israel for granting refuge to the Oligarchs who ripped off Russia, take notes - if Israel will not let them in (for a nice cut in the deal), there are other countries drooling over the loot. Hypcoricy ? cynicism ?<br>on Edit - Another newspaper discloses the illicit and problematic web of commercial relations between Arkadi gaidamek and Israeli intel senior officials, including previous head of mossad Dany Yatom, and former chief of staff Lipkin-Shahak, even prior to his immigration to Israel. Apparently, he was "helping" mossad with the Angola arms deals, which is why he was able to come here, following a French investigation of his illegal/unauthorozied arms dealing with Angola, together with the son of Mitterand and Falcon (another french businessman who escaped the investigation and moved to London then to Zurich). <br><br>Editting-<br>Following news now - A petition to the high court of justice was filed this mortning by an Israseli writer Yuli Nudleman to order the Israeli gov't to rescind the citizenship of the Oligarch Nevezelin (sp ? transliterating from hebrew), following an extradition request from Russia for murder and organized crime, specifically the contract killing of numerous people (and attempted murder of one Yukos manager). <br>the funny bit in the petition - the Oligarch arrived in israel 2003 after an arrest warrant issued in russia. He immediately, upon landing, donated a few millions for the Diaspora Center and to the Research of Antisemitism therein...:-). The Israeli ministry of interior affairs granted the application for citizenship notwithstanding a pending request for extradition which they received well before he landed here. (that's against the law of return). The ministry of Justice refused to provide the information to Nudleman so he had to receive it from Russia, and file it to the court. Namely, the AG's office were trying to conceal the facts, so he could not file the petition.<br>I assume now the Oligarch will have to immigrate to Europe or canada...poor guy.<br> <br><br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=havanagila>havanagila</A> at: 2/2/06 5:35 am<br></i>

[sceneshifter]

Havanagila, all I can suggest is<br><br>1 try your darndest to get out of there to another country - and wonder why your right of movement, which everyone had in nature, before societies, has been stolen - example of our slavery<br><br>2 failing that, find the most remote spot, the spot in your country the least likely to be bombed, and dig in - make an invisible home - bury yourself in a cave or hole with several years food supply - and read some books<br><br>I do not understand why people hang around in cities that are being bombed - the sensible lion hightails it out of any situation in which it decides it is going to get hurt<br><br>3 or live in a remote village with a clear view to get sight of soldiers arriving and dig a deep cellar with plenty of ways of concealing its presence and entrance, and with a way to get sight without being seen, so you can know when the soldiers leave - but the weakness here is villagers telling the soldiers where you are - under torture or for money or life<br><br>4 and tell no one where you are hiding<br><br>5 forests are good <p></p><i></i>