refuseniks, politicized psychiatry and asylum in canada

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refuseniks, politicized psychiatry and asylum in canada

Postby havanagilla » Fri Apr 07, 2006 5:14 am

<br>Recently, the IDF changed strategy with respect to refuseniks (those who refuse to be drafted to the IDF, based on their objection to the occupation or other conscientious issues). In the last five years, objectors were treated harshly by the military legal system, ending with long terms of imprisonment, and repeated trials for defection. Regretfully, the supreme court chose not to interfere with the IDF's interpretations and applications of what should be considered legit refusal and what isnt. This year, a new policy is applied - most refuseniks are <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>refered to psychiatric officers and are</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> released on these grounds.<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong> This "sovietized" psychiatry is now an institutionalized fact in Israel.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->---<br>As a result, refuseniks are looking for novel ways to upgrade their struggle with the state and the IDF, and force the state to respect their arguments on principle. ONe recent suggestion raised in the left wing main website was for several of the refuseniks to apply for political asylum, possibly in Europe or Canada, following the US soldiers who defected from Iraq and came to canada. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=havanagilla>havanagilla</A> at: 4/7/06 3:19 am<br></i>
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Re: refuseniks, politicized psychiatry and asylum in canada

Postby StarmanSkye » Fri Apr 07, 2006 1:12 pm

Re: Referring refuseniks for psychiatric care, treating conscientious objection to the institutionalization of war as a mental illness - Cripes, yet another sign of the outstanding lunacy of our times.<br><br>It's hardly just coincidence that Israel and its ideological/political/military ally US have pursued policies and practices that are completely at-odds with their stated high ideals, solidarity with the principles of justice, human rights, freedom, legitimate and accountable and transparent democratic government reflecting the interests of their public -- the deviation in both instances has become grotesque -- as the US has followed the horrific path of aligning with repressive right-wing regimes employing terror and arbitrary violence under the pretext of defending against communism -- as IF American style democracy were such a frail, delicate, weak institution that it needed to be protected by any and all means including practices and policies that are repugnant to all decent people and contrary to civilized values and in opposition to domestic and international law -- as happened throughout the Cold War and which the US quickly adapted to replacement with War on Terror.<br><br>The intimate partnership between the US and Israel encourages each other's most perverted delusions and psychoses. In the case of Israel, the state refuses to see that its refuseniks are among its most valuable natural resources -- individuals with the rare talent of clear-thinking and principled beliefs with the courage of their convictions embracing another more creative, constructive and forward-thinking way of dealing with conflict.<br><br>It's so heartbreaking and frustrating to see the extent that both Israeli and American society are under the influence of dangerous, destructive and self-indulgent interests with their poisonous, hateful ideas, emphasizing violence as a 'solution' to injustice and decades of wrong-headed, disasterous policies. Both America and Israel are cursed with corrupt, criminal and essentially illegitimate, pig-headed leadership that have repudiated and defiled the very best that each nation once stood for -- though arguably, both America and Israel were founded on contradictions and lies that underscored the biggest challenge for each state to reconcile and surmount -- unfortunately it is now evident that each state failed in this abominably -- seemingly focusing on external dangers and often on wildly exaggerated or contrived and even manufactured 'threats' to deflect and divert the necessary task of brutally-honest self-reflection and acknowledgement of its horrific faults and crimes -- there hasn't been an accounting for grevious mistakes made, in fact it seems we are incapable of electing leadership that is interested in acquiring wisdom and maturity -- as in the US's unwillingness to admit the horrific mistake it made in interfering in Middle East politics and conspiring to bring Saddam Hussein into power -- the blood and sorrow and guilt for a legacy of fatally flawed policies has never yet been acknowledged -- Such cowardly lack of honesty deserves nothing but our contempt <br>-- as it has directly led to our present crisis of failed leadership and psychotic belief that militarism will bring peace.<br><br><br>Re: political asylum -- wouldn't Sweden, Holland, Venezuala or Cuba be a *bit* more ideologically-appropriate venues as refuge for conscientious objectors from both the US and Israel? (Although I've been giving thought to the possibility of moving to Canada simply as the most practical and efficient compromise towards reconciling the contempt and outrage I feel at the betrayal of the nation by the vile criminals who have seized power).<br><br>Starman <p></p><i></i>
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Re: refuseniks, politicized psychiatry and asylum in canada

Postby havanagilla » Fri Apr 07, 2006 4:14 pm

I couldn't agree more with you...as for the "original sins" inherent in both US and Israeli histories...I read today something I didn't know about Frank Baum, the author of Wizard of Oz, about Sitting Bull and the battles against the Sioux in Dakota where he lived in the 19th century. Apparently this gifted man was a <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>racist and a genocidal</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> one, with regards to the Native americans. Similar contradictions exist here in Israel with people who can be very gifted and sensitive EXCEPT when it comes fo Arabs. <br>Maybe the sins of the fathers <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>are</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> visited...that's very sad.<br>--<br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Sweden, Holland, Venezuala or Cuba<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br><br>I don't know what their asylum practices are, but I doubt Holland/Sweden are better equiped than Canada to withstand Israeli gov't pressures (and <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>canada isn't able</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> to, as well). As for Venezuela or Cuba..interesting ideas. I think Germany should be a wise choice for media impact, re Israeli objectors. <br>---<br> As for psychiary and militarization in ISrael, that's a long story here and very sad one. The psychiatric establishment here is co=opted by the military, and I think that in israel, "zionist mental health" requirements include the ability to kill. Otherwise, one is "weird or flaky". PSychiatry here assists torture but worse than that is responsible for the perverse values of our society. Perhaps it is a positive sign that now it becomes manifest, namely, they are now saying it out loud - anyone who refuses to be a soldier in the occupation <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>is mentally ill</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->...<br>this is as close to Orwellian newspeak..as you can get.<br><br>---<br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: politicized psychiatry-ADL absolves Prescott Bush

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Fri Apr 07, 2006 4:33 pm

Speaking of politicized 'denial,' have you seen the 'Internet Rumors' page of the Anti-Defamation League? I was just looking at their detailed descriptions of extremist groups, like 'ecoterrorists,' and advice to law enforcement. (Seems citing the US Constitution is a danger sign of extremism.)<br><br>According to the ADL it ain't true that Prescott Bush supported the Nazis. (!?!)<br><br>Can you imagine that the ADL is covering for the families and corporations that built the Nazi monster that almost eliminated Jews from the face of the planet? The expediency of current survival issues are paramount, I suppose. Mighty complicated dosey-doe of alliances.<br><br>And they say that the refuseniks are crazy for standing on principles. In a crazy world, maybe so. <br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://adl.org/Internet_Rumors/Archive.htm">adl.org/Internet_Rumors/Archive.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Prescott Bush's Alleged Nazi "Ties", 12/16/03<br>Rumors about the alleged Nazi "ties" of the late Prescott Bush, the grandfather of President George W. Bush, are untenable and politically motivated.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://adl.org/Internet_Rumors/prescott.htm">adl.org/Internet_Rumors/prescott.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>         <br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Prescott Bush's Alleged Nazi "Ties"<br><br>Tuesday, December 16, 2003<br>        <br>Rumors about the alleged Nazi "ties" of the late Prescott Bush, the grandfather of President George W. Bush, have circulated widely through the Internet in recent years. These charges are untenable and politically motivated.<br><br>Despite some early financial dealings between Prescott Bush and a Nazi industrialist named Fritz Thyssen (who was arrested by the Nazi regime in 1938 and imprisoned during the war), Prescott Bush was neither a Nazi nor a Nazi sympathizer.<br><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: politicized psychiatry-ADL absolves Prescott Bush

Postby havanagilla » Fri Apr 07, 2006 10:30 pm

Huma, this is not a new practice for organized Jewish leadership and Zionists. Same happened with UK royalty and its very close ties to Hitler and certainly to South Africa overt Nazi PM at the time he assisted Israel. Those who help Israel are automatically granted immunity from Nazism, that's one of the perks in the deal :-), btw, it is not restricted to Nazi sympathizers. For instance, Jewish and non JEwish mobsters, murderers and human traffickers get "laundered" and elevated to the level of Saints if they donate some of their loot to Israel. I say, this is a laundromat for criminals, not only in terms of tax evasion but moral stains as well. (advertisement ? "want to start a new life ? want to be born again ? do you have bad publicity ? we have the solution - donate money to Israel and receive a Moral Diploma").<br>--<br>Well, anyway. To return to the subject. The use of psychiatry to silence, discredit people and politically correct dissidents is rampant all over. this is just one radical example of how Israel is now SHAMELESSLY using it openly. However, in my experience, even <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Canada's homeland security did the same in order</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> to cover up questionable ops that would not stand public scrutiny. Certainly, the dear old USA does that (see the thread "from spy to psychotic" in this board a few weeks ago). The Soviets have had an expertise in<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong> prostituting psychiatry for political</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> purposes. Many Russian psychiatrists, from that era as well, <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>immigrated to Israel</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> and found jobs in the public psychiatric system where they apply their know how and also teach their fellow psychiatrists the secrets of the trade. Here too, those who suffered from this practice (Jewish dissidents, "refuseniks" as they were called then, remember ?), readily switched sides and started to oppress dissidents in ISrael, using the same tools.<br>---<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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