Israel ready for massive invasion

by **sunny** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 11:08 pm

<a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/syria/story/0,,1835302,00.html">www.guardian.co.uk/syria/...02,00.html</a> <img src="http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2006/08/01/childrenflee372ready.jpg" style="border:0;"/> Israeli special forces were last night engaged deep within Lebanon as the army geared up for an expected major ground invasion. Troops were involved in fierce clashes and artillery pounded targets across southern Lebanon. The military also called in air strikes despite a previous commitment to a "partial" halt in air bombardments. Israeli commanders said that six brigades - several thousand soldiers - were now deployed inside Lebanon. At least 15,000 reserve troops, called up late last week, would be ready for combat from today, army sources said. Article continues -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Last night Israeli commandos were reported to be in action against Hizbullah fighters 40 miles across the Lebanese border in the Beka'a valley, after landing by helicopter. Witnesses reported gunfire around a hospital to the west of the town of Baalbek, a Hizbullah stronghold. According to the Lebanese army, the target of the raid was Sheikh Mohammed Yazbek, a member of the Hizbullah High Council, and representative in Lebanon of Iran's supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, who was reported to have been at the hospital earlier in the day. The operation began with at least five rapid air strikes three hours before the end of Israel's self-imposed two-day pause in air attacks. Witnesses in Baalbek reported seeing dozens of Israeli helicopters hovering over the town and said the hospital was bombed. Hizbullah's chief spokesman, Hussein Rahal, later said some Israeli commandos had become trapped in the hospital and that fighting - which had already lasted four hours - was continuing. Some of the soldiers injured in the raid were flown back to Haifa last night. Mr Rahal dismissed as untrue reports that commandos had snatched patients from the hospital and flown them out of the town, but the operation is reminiscent of Israel's 1994 raid on Lebanon to kidnap a guerrilla leader, Mustafa Dirani. The military escalation came as diplomats in Brussels and at the UN security council again failed to make progress. EU ministers became bogged down in arguments over the meaning of "ceasefire" and settled for a watered-down compromise calling for a cessation of hostilities. Germany and four other countries joined Britain in opposing tougher language urged by France, calling for an immediate ceasefire and condemning Israel's bombardment as "a severe breach of international humanitarian law". In a speech in Los Angeles, Tony Blair called for a fundamental reappraisal of British and US foreign policy, admitting excessive emphasis on military power and a failure to address the Palestinian issue had left the west losing the battle for hearts and minds in the Middle East. The prime minister also sent a warning to Syria and Iran: "We need to make clear to Syria and Iran that there is a choice: come into the international community and play by the same rules as the rest of us; or be confronted." The Syrian government told its armed forces to raise their state of readiness, after Israel said it would target all vehicles believed to be carrying weapons from Syria to Lebanon. There was intense fighting yesterday in the Lebanese village of Aitar al-Shaab, where Israeli paratroopers have been for two days; Hizbullah claimed it had killed or injured more than 30 Israeli soldiers there. Israel said three soldiers had been killed after Hizbullah fighters opened fire with anti-tank weapons on houses they were searching. Yesterday afternoon, a few miles to the east, artillery rounds were seen fired into the village of Taibe, on the saddle of a hill range near where the strategic Litani river runs closest to the Israeli border. Thick brown smoke hung low over the village as buildings were pounded. Israel's prime minister, Ehud Olmert, under pressure to come out of the conflict with a convincing victory, claimed his troops were winning. He added that a process towards a ceasefire was under way, but an immediate cessation was not in Israel's interests. "We are at the beginning of a political process that, in the end, will bring a ceasefire under entirely different conditions than before," he said. But there would be no end until "we know for certain that conditions in the field have changed from those that would cause a war to break out". Haim Ramon, the Israeli justice minister, said Hizbullah was at "breaking point". Military officials said the objective was to clear a strip of all Hizbullah positions up to 7km (4 miles) deep inside Lebanon. Military analysts said the army was likely to push further to the Litani itself, which at times runs as far as 20 or 30km inside Lebanon. Several Israeli ministers said there was up to 14 days of fighting to come. Late last night at one position, 30 or 40 infantry gathered before heading north to fight. In full camouflage, faces painted green and black, and with night-vision goggles, their commander briefed them. "Keep your eyes open. Keep concentrating. Watch out for friendly fire. If you get into trouble, we have a medic in the unit." They said a brief prayer, boarded coaches with loud music playing, and headed out. [<a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14128276/" target="top">b]Israeli commandos land near Syria[/b]</a> <img src="http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/060801/060801_IDF_hmed_1230a.h2.jpg" style="border:0;"/> BOURJ AL-MULOUK, Lebanon - Israel launched a major attack deep into Lebanon, and Hezbollah said its guerrillas were fighting Israeli commandos on the ground near the eastern city of Baalbek near Syria early Wednesday. The Israeli army would not comment on the operation near Baalbek, an ancient city that was a former Syrian army headquarters some 80 miles north of the Israeli border. Israel refused to comment. The Web site of the Israeli daily Haaretz reported that “Helicopters put down IDF (military) commandos near Baalbek,” without adding details. Some Israeli commandos were trapped inside a Baalbek hospital early Wednesday, the chief Hezbollah spokesman told The Associated Press.

by **yesferatu** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 1:34 am

Has Jack Van Impe had his orgasm yet? "Massive invasion....unnnnngh!!! Isra.....EL!!! oooo-Aaaah!!!" The kleenex must be flying in jezuzland tonite.

by **StarmanSkye** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 2:18 am

"We need to make clear to Syria and Iran that there is a choice: come into the international community and play by the same rules as the rest of us; or be confronted." -- Is Prime Minister Tony Blair, REALLY apparently imploring Syria and Iran to openly embrace invasions, occupation, war crimes, indiscriminate murder of civilians, use of internationally banned weapons, targetting of civil infrastructure, strafing of fleeing non-combatants, wanton destruction of homes and shops, impeding of aid relief, and other acts of terror intended to cause massive sufffering and hardship and death -- or ELSE face the wrath of Israeli, UK and/or US forces; Is THAT what he's saying? Welcome to the Brave New World. (roll eyes) Starman

by **4911** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 5:55 am

2 fronts for israel? Wonder what US troop levels are doing in the meantime...could we be looking at simultaneous strikes by them, say, into "some other" territory? Think Iran is gonna sit by and watch? How about Iranian troop movement, anything?

by **havanagilla** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 7:18 am

hardly 2 fronts. one is occupied territory and the other is guerrilla. not even one front. and..israel is far from "ready" for anything. The chaos, you can't imagine. But, the power asymmetry is such that there is no military threat to israel now as a state. I doubt that Iran and Syria together are a threat to IDF in an all out war. But, as Ahmedi mentioned accutely, the dry tree is crumbling from within. However, i suspect there are not going to be any reasons to cheer on this board for some military loss to Israel, except the usual tragedies, perhaps bigger, as in a successful bombing or even one or two chemical warheads, are not going to change that balance, or anything close to that. get real. -- ONly the premature removal of Bush/cheney will make a difference here. Its going to be this way, probaby till october or so, on and off. More half sane iSraelis packing, and a new Israel is born. Third world, overtly fascist, military dictatorship. It will fall on its own terms, in due time, from internal reasons, and with the "help" of the USA, and then there will also be a different war here, i suppose eventually, Israel will lose, but not the way you expect it to and much further down the road. Anyway, no reason to cheer for more tragedies. we have enough of those here. For the little antisemites lurking here, just a quick reminder, whether the holocaust was or wasn't, it didn't change anything, did it ? we are still ruling the world. IN this sense, even an atomic bomb on Israel will not change the eternal lizardish fact, and the rulers shall rise from the ashes ever more controlling using that holocaust 2, to rule again... So perhaps you should try a different approach to the "jewish problem" ?

by **AlicetheCurious** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:18 am

Hava, the only good thing I can see coming from all this horror, is that it's destroyed a lot of people's illusions. At least I hope so. I remember having a conversation with a Lebanese guy, a real idiot, about a year and a half ago. He saw nothing sinister about the sequence of events: Sharon's Gaza "withdrawal" (meaning putting Gazans in a big prison and freeing up troops who would otherwise be guarding settlements), Rafik Hariri assassinated in a very high-tech way, then immediately the US & Israel go on-message accusing Syria, then the UN passes 1559, calling for "all foreign forces" to withdraw from Lebanon, then calling for the disarming of Hizbullah. At that point, I was hyperventilating, freaking out, telling everybody that Israel was planning to invade Lebanon. The geniuses around me chuckled patronizingly and assured me that would never happen. Anyway, back to that Lebanese idiot, he was smiling and arguing that the US and Israel would never harm Lebanon, because it is in their interest to have such a democratic, western-oriented state in the Middle East. The way he figured it, as best I can recall, those Lebanese who are prepared "to make a deal" with the US and Israel, will always have friends in high places who will protect their back. My face still gets red when I recall his smug assurance, which was shared by so many fools across the Middle East, who were stupid or ignorant or self-deluded enough to believe that countries have 'friends'. Some of them have been working on behalf of Israel and the US to undermine their own countries' economic and military capabilities, under the illusion that because they have betrayed their own people, Israel and the US will reward them gratefully. Excuse me while I spit. Anyway, for the moment at least, they are blessedly silent. It came at an obscenely high cost, but that's something.

by **4911** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:42 am

"However, i suspect there are not going to be any reasons to cheer on this board for some military loss to Israel, except the usual tragedies" Who says anything about cheering for tragedies?

by **havanagilla** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:04 am

4911, i sense that some people here crossed the lines in terms of hatred, perhaps temporarily. Alice, rest assure that within the Israel the same illusion is at work, IMHO, but it will take a while before it explodes in the face of those who sell their own, for the 'perks' the US grants. However, you have to be a bit more compassionate with human follies, especially in times of danger. People are looking for security, and that's more than human, and the sophisticated US propaganda promises both that AND the salvation of the soul (you are doing the right thing...we know the right answers..etc.). It is very very difficult to do otherwise, and to sort out the crap from the smoothtalking and smoother dollars. Who amongst us, mideastern really KNOWN their identity as separate from colonization, of one kind or the other ? you and i both write on this board, which is in a way a small colonizer as well, for western ideas, as good as they can come, still alien to our indigenous ethnicity and values. I read a lot of writings from India, where people struggled with identity issues under the Brittish EMpire and produced volumes of beautiful and sincere literature (Rushdie amongst them, but others, too), enough to know we cannot afford to "look for traitors" all the time. -- Your lebanese learned friend (well, rival) was only doing his best to maintain some sense of reason and security in a very dangerous spot. Would he be less bombed now if he saw it coming ? at least he gained some years of false expectations. that's not to be discounted these days. -- Let us not judge...cause we are judged by the same measures. "Authenticity" for colonized people is an illusion as well, and a costly one (see the fundies around you...), and whlie you justly criticize the sell out Mubarak, you don't want to live under his rivals' regime if they win (Brotherhood etc., unless you flee back to canada, which is only YOUR privilege). These hard times and things can always get worse...(here in the ME, we learn that every day). I know the Israeli gov reached rock bottom, but I also DON"t know what lies after its collapse. No angels around or "good guys" to take the place of the power vacuums if they are created.

by **AlicetheCurious** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 11:16 am

Hava, that whole Neocon vs Muslim Brotherhood dilemma is the one that's kept sellouts and traitors in power for decades, and it won't wash anymore. There is a third alternative, and that's RESISTANCE. The more people have their illusions shattered, the more alert they will be to the danger that they are being manipulated and disempowered. Once people's eyes are opened, the PTBs will need to watch their backs a lot more. Believe me, they will find way fewer patsies now that the mask has fallen off. By the way, the Muslim Brotherhood only looks good when compared to the greedy, corrupt and repressive government. They AND the government share a desire to make sure we only have a choice of the lesser of two evils. Hamas achieved such overwhelming support when Palestinians became sick and tired of watching their secular, liberal leaders bending over backwards to placate the US and Israel, greedily fighting over the few crumbs they were thrown as their reward, and then helplessly watching as the wall was built, settlements expanded, and people were killed or imprisoned. I am not a Hamas fan, but even I got sick and tired of hearing the reps of the "Palestinian Authority" repeating "road map/peace process" like some idiotic mantra, as though anybody gave a shit anymore. I can see the exhilaration of choosing to fight and even die, rather than continue to feel like a chump, listening to the same old crap, dying a million small deaths while still walking around waiting to be snuffed out. Hizbullah is not the Muslim Brotherhood, despite the many attempts to lump them together. Hizbullah is a true resistance movement, very much grassroots and dedicated to protecting Lebanon from foreign interference or domination. In contrast, the Muslim Brotherhood is very Saudi-dominated, and we know who the Saudis work for. Another contrast is that the Muslim Brotherhood is a divisive movement, hostile to Christians and secular liberals, which openly demands an Islamic religious state. Hizbullah is the opposite. They've maintained excellent relations with Christians and the other groups in Lebanon, they have never tried to impose religious law, and they have no interest in going beyond their borders, other than sympathizing with other people struggling for their freedom, such as the Palestinians. The Muslim Brotherhood has, in my opinion, LOST, not gained by the comparison. OK, this is my very subjective view, but watching the Muslim Brotherhood leader Mahdi Akef being interviewed on tv a couple of days ago, he seemed so sleazy and insincere, it was almost embarassing. What a contrast with Nasrallah! Believe it or not, watching Hassan Nasrallah interviewed, the thought crossed my mind that this man indeed seems divinely inspired. Interestingly enough, I was not alone in my reaction. My uncle's wife is Lebanese Christian; unlike me, she is extremely religious (it seems like half her family are bishops, priests and nuns). I almost fell off my chair the other day, when she said that watching Hassan Nasrallah speak, she sensed that he was a true man of God. I think what both she and I interpreted as "God" was really our instinctive reaction to seeing a real, live, one-of-a-kind, honest man, calmly and thoughtfully telling the truth about actually being willing to sacrifice everything he has to defend his people against foreign aggression. Knowing that his eldest son died fighting to liberate Lebanon from the Israeli occupation also added to the unflattering comparison with those palace-dwelling smoothies with which our world is infested. It's easy to be cynical, sometimes it reminds me of Diogenes, wandering eternally in his futile search for a single honest man. In this case, I think cynicism is dangerous, blinding us to a genuine ray of hope. Maybe I'm just caught up in the whole thing, and am too emotional; maybe my heart is right, but they'll kill Nasrallah and disarm Hizbullah and Lebanon will be the triumphal 'doorway' (or vagina, thinking of Condi's frightening metaphor) to the New Middle East.

by **havanagilla** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 11:36 am

I hope you are right, Alice. I don't know. The only thing I am thinking is that IF (and we don't know that, but sense it) the US and some of its allies are decided on cracking down on the Middle East, arabs moslems what not, and they have the power to do so, we know that, in that case the alternatives are not terrific anyway you look at it. You are brave, saying that "fighting to the end" is better than going as sheep to the slaughter. I'd like to think this way, but if i were a leader now, having many people as my flock to protect (with the added perks and bribes the job entails, for sure), i'd be shivering before making these decisions. We, humans, are always hoping for something to prevent the bad end, perhaps this is being used now against us, very cynically by those in power. Perhaps not. How can we know the future ? Jewish experience says, certainly, better fight till you drop, rather than march obediently to the trains that lead you to death in disgrace. BUt, it couldv'e been different, for instance, if the red army or the USA started a war before, and in time to prevent the worse. Whereas fighting against a superior power, is usually a dead end. (there are a few examples for victory, in miracluous ways, of the smaller, but they are few). We are sometimes ignoring history, and that in fact our entire history is made up of those huge movements of colonization, war, forcing one culture over another, genocide and settlements. The stronger are preying on the weaker, etc, and they always have "god on their side". In the case of the war we see now, the odds are against those resisting the USA alliance. Is it just ? no. Was the killing of the native americans just ? hardly. NO. but it happened nonetheless, and if they resisted, it would matter little to the end result. These are hard questions. I think the Israelis (and most of the Jews) chose to ally with who they percieve as the stronger, so as not to get caught in the fire on the wrong side. Will that save them from the same fate ? i doubt it, but it buys time, I suppose. At least enogh time to get the f..k out of here for many who deem the situation lost. Would it be different if the Jews who settled here integrated with the local paletinians and became only a minority in a palestinian state ? not sure. The americans would have been here anyway, with the drums. but the jews might have saved their asses in the process. don't know.  I guess the bottom line of my too lenghty tractate, is would you prefer to be a compliant sell out Saudi right now, or a proud Iraqi ? remembering, we live once, probably.Anyway, my point has long been that regardless of the "conflict", the Israeli government, as such and vis a vis its own citizens, lost its legitimacy in my eyes and therefore, as the rule of history shows, it shall fall, this way or the other. It is not serving its own people, it is corrupt and brutal, and it antagonizes both the neighborhood and its own flock. And, finally, it relies on a county, the USA< who proved itself as a serial destroyer of its "satelites", first and formost. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=havanagilla>havanagilla</A> at: 8/2/06 10:18 am

by **AlicetheCurious** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:23 pm

To me, it's not a choice. Even if I wanted to be a Saudi pig sell-out, I'm grateful to say I wouldn't be able to do it. Since the world began, there have been billions and billions of lives, some short, some long, but all of them very brief. We all die sometime, and in the end, all that matters is what you do with the time you have. I'd rather be a proud, free Iraqi, fighting with everything I've got, for what I know to be right. At least I'll be alive until the moment of my death.

by **havanagilla** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:42 pm

yes and no. its not worth it to die or waste a life on BUSH, this way or the other. Sometimes, staying in tact is smarter, and I can't say there's a universal meter for this. Judaism commands on three cases ONLY to die and not commit - kill another person, incest, and witchcraft. All other causes (fight against bush, bring democracy or even live free - is not allowed to die for !). If I bring it down to our terms, i go for it. So, the question is always does the situation before me meets the standards. The third one is the catchy of course, and in that sense you are right to say that if one feels compelled to betray one's soul, death is worth it. but only then. .

by **so buttons** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 3:09 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Anyway, my point has long been that regardless of the "conflict", the Israeli government, as such and vis a vis its own citizens, lost its legitimacy in my eyes and therefore, as the rule of history shows, it shall fall, this way or the other. It is not serving its own people, it is corrupt and brutal, and it antagonizes both the neighborhood and its own flock. And, finally, it relies on a county, the USA< who proved itself as a serial destroyer of its "satelites", first and formost. <hr></blockquote> certainly not to underplay the israeli situation, hava, for i realize that life here and life there are apples and oranges, but on some level, wouldn't you agree that the same is true for the us? the us government lost legitimacy in 1963 (though most of us didn't realize it until 2000)...it is not serving its own people (as exemplified by katrina, but also by health care, education, welfare, and myriad other social institutions on a recurring basis), it is corrupt and brutal (iraq, guantanamo, our own justice/prison system), and it antagonizes both the neighborhood and its own flock (granted, we don't antagonize our neighbors in mexico the way israel antagonizes the lebanese, but we do entice them to come here in search of a better life by offering the jobs "that americans don't want", and then when they get here and do our menial labor, we deny them rights and make sure they know they are unwelcome second-class citizens). and finally, we aren't relying on anyone per se, and that, to me, is the most assured sign of our inevitable demise - every empire must fall.

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