Israelis testing new weapon? -- internal organs "dusted

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Re: Haaretz is covering this in Israel

Postby Seventhsonjr » Sun Oct 22, 2006 9:39 pm

Dear Alice,<br><br>Hey! Don't get me wrong.<br><br>I was trying to point out that this is getting covered in Israel which is a damn good thing.<br><br>Of course my primary concern is the horrors of what clearly seem to me to be heinous war crimes.<br><br>But I have to admit that this is a very difficult issue for me --- we are ofte more critical of the Israelis than we are of our own government which is sponsoring this abomination.<br><br>But then you go and say something which scares me or hurts :<br><br>you say; <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>'the Jews' being defined as the parasitical blood-suckers who squat on top of a multi-billion dollar industry promoting the mystical dogma of eternal and unique Jewish victimization</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>Now - is this YOUR opinion? To cast all Jews as such? And doesn't the same apply to all Americans in your analysis if what Bush is doing is the same in our name?<br><br>Maybe I misread this statement but it seems as if this is what you are saying.<br><br>And it gets to the point of my post: that ALL Israelis are not supporting this horror. All Jews are not. It is being revealed and discussed and debated in their press just as we are doing here.<br><br>My concern has been (and what I have tried to express in my above post) that the Israeli or Jewish press would say that such reports are antiSemitic and false. This is not the case in this instance and I was saying that is a good thing.<br><br>When it is being reported in the Israeli press - that gives me some hope that it will be taken MORE seriously than it would otherwise be.<br><br>THAT is what I was fretting about: that it might not be taken so seriously as it should be...<br><br>Is that so wrong?<br><br>Or am I out on a limb by myself here?<br><br><br><br><br><br> <br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Haaretz is covering this in Israel

Postby Seventhsonjr » Mon Oct 23, 2006 12:18 am

I don't have a link but I read on BBC a little while ago that Israel is acknowledging the use of phosphorus weapons.<br><br>Nothing to see here.<br><br>Move along... <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Haaretz is covering this in Israel

Postby AlicetheCurious » Mon Oct 23, 2006 7:25 am

Seventhsonjr, I think we're gonna have to rescue our language, because it's been hijacked and tortured beyond recognition. Maybe we should provide a glossary of terms as a prelude to any discussion, or we'll end up with a lot of misunderstandings.<br><br>I thought that by putting apostrophes around 'the Jews', I was making it clear that I wasn't collectively referring to actual flesh and blood human beings of the Jewish faith or ethnic or cultural identity. <br><br>I meant the cluster of doublethink, that intellectual and moral black hole, that no-man's-land seeded with mental mine fields built by decades of propaganda, emotional blackmail and psychological manipulation by cynical, self-interested elites, that disintegrates coherent, rational thought on contact, and where normal standards of decency or morality and even the law, are turned upside-down.<br><br>Closely intertwined with, and feeding, the mystical concept of "the Jews" is the mystical concept of "The Holocaust". For example, Finklestein (whom I mentioned in an earlier post) distinguishes between the Nazi Holocaust, an actual historical event that exists within real parameters of time and space, a legitimate subject of study by historians, with 'The Holocaust' as a mystery religion.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Only a flea's hop separates the claim of Holocaust uniqueness from the claim that The Holocaust cannot be rationally apprehended. If The Holocaust is unprecedented in history, it must stand above and hence cannot be grasped by history. Indeed, The Holocaust is unique because it is inexplicable, and it is inexplicable because it is unique.<br><br>Dubbed by Novick "the sacralization of the Holocaust," this mystification's most practiced purveyor is Elie Wiesel. For Wiesel, Novick rightly observes, The Holocaust is effectively a "mystery" religion. <br><br>Thus Wiesel intones that the Holocaust "leads into darkness," "negates all answers," "lies outside, if not beyond, history," "defies both knowledge and description," "cannot be explained nor visualized," is "never to be comprehended or transmitted," marks a "destruction of history" and a "mutation on a cosmic scale." Only the survivor-priest (read: only Wiesel) is qualified to divine its mystery. <br><br>And yet, The Holocaust's mystery, Wiesel avows, is "noncommunicable"; "we cannot even talk about it." Thus, for his standard fee of $25,000 (plus chauffeured limousine), Wiesel lectures that the "secret" of Auschwitz's "truth lies in silence." <br><br>[chapt. 2, Hoaxers, Hucksters, and History; <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>The Holocaust Industry</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->]<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Now, most peoples have fiddled with their history in order to influence the present, and national legends rarely have much in common with the gritty and often unfortunately sordid and inconveniently complex events of the past. I certainly don't begrudge people their little illusions if it helps to make their reality more bearable. (I snicker, but quietly, at all the turgid speeches that include "our ancestors, the pharaohs", drawing deeply from the well of history to water the rather arid current Egyptian realities.)<br><br>Where I draw the line, is the point at which national "mystery religions" become a blank cheque to oneself that draws upon the resources, freedom and lives of other people.<br><br>Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Few people would dispute that women have been victimized throughout history (herstory?), abused, violated, disenfranchised, enslaved and silenced, merely because they were women.<br><br>Yet, imagine a group of women appropriating this shameful history in the way that Zionist propagandists have, as a license to kill and pillage and terrorize with impunity, silencing dissent and declaring women who protest to be "self-hating women" and traitors. Killing little boys, using chemical weapons to burn them, would be justified as self-defence.<br><br>Or a group of Black people, claiming themselves as the sole creditor and collection agent for the infinite debts accumulated by centuries of injustice and the inestimable theft of lives, freedom and property.<br><br>Nobody would stand for it. And nobody would stand for this kind of abuse in the name of "the Jews" if it were not backed by powerful elite interests who wear sackcloth and ashes and weep tears of self-pity as they fill their bottomless pockets with the booty taken from their helpless victims.<br><br>Of course, the sackcloth and ashes are taken off as easily as they are put on, when an overwhelming show of power becomes a more effective weapon. Real victims, of course, don't have such a range of options.<br><br>When these criminals hide behind "the Jews", and set themselves up as THE representatives of "the Jews", obviously, they're hoping to sow confusion by framing the problem so that one either blames "the Jews" or shuts up.<br><br>What I'm arguing is that their frame is bogus, morally and legally. Criminals should not be permitted to hide behind their ethnicity, nor should innocent people be punished for the crimes of those who actually committed them. In civilised countries, killing the relatives of a suspect, let alone someone who happens to own what you want, is not considered legitimate law enforcement.<br><br>Yet this is precisely the 'logic' of Zionism. Just as Zionists commit war crimes and then cower behind "the Jews" to avoid prosecution, it is, not surprisingly, common for their soldiers to bomb entire buildings inhabited by civilians, and then disingenously explaining that a particular militant was 'known to be' in the building.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Haaretz is covering this in Israel

Postby Seventhsonjr » Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:25 am

Thanks for the clarification...<br><br>I would only point out that "Zionism" and "Zionists" are no more monolithic than any other group - say "Christians" or Islamists.<br><br>There is a wide spectrum of beliefs.<br><br>But I have to agree that the purveyors of these horros are using Israelis and the Jewish people as human shields while they line their own pockets in the name of Zionism or Israel.<br><br>I am really depressed this morning about all of this.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Haaretz is covering this in Israel

Postby AlicetheCurious » Mon Oct 23, 2006 12:27 pm

Christians are those who claim to follow the teachings of Jesus, as described in the New Testament; Christians claim that Jesus is the son of God, who died for humanity's sins and arose from the dead on the third day.<br><br>Muslims are those who claim to follow the teachings of Mohammed; they claim that the angel Gabriel revealed the Quran, the pure word of God, directly to Mohammed, who was appointed to be the last prophet in a long line of earlier prophets who were sent to enlighten the Jews and then the Christians.<br><br>Christianity and Islam are religions. Both are primarily concerned with the spiritual relationship between Man and God, but also with moral and ethical relationships between people. Islam is much more specific than Christianity regarding family and social relationships, regulating matters such as marriage, divorce, inheritance, charity, even business dealings, but these are rules for individual behaviour and are only applicable to Muslims.<br><br>Why are you comparing them to Zionism?<br><br>Zionism may not look "monolithic" from your perspective, and may include "a wide spectrum of beliefs" -- try saying that while standing in Gaza, or southern Lebanon, or in a Palestinian refugee camp. <br><br>From there, you'd be amazed how 'monolithic' Zionism looks, even across time. While seen from the West, it went from being a 'colonial enterprise' to a 'socialist workers' movement' to a 'liberal democracy' to a 'right-wing religious/militarist state', but from this side, it always looked, smelled and acted just like genocide. <br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: the monolith

Postby AlicetheCurious » Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:21 pm

<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>"What We Did Was Insane and Monstrous"<br>Israel's Cluster Bomb War</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br>By SAREE MAKDISI<br><br>Of all the statistics to emerge from Israel's recent war on Lebanon, the most shocking concerns the number of cluster bombs that Israel dropped on or fired into Lebanon.<br><br>A cluster bomb is made up of a canister that opens and releases hundreds of individual bomblets, which are dispersed and explode over a wide area, showering it with molten metal and lethal fragments.<br><br>About 40 percent of the bomblets dropped by Israel (many of which were American-made) did not explode in the air or on impact with the ground. They now detonate when someone disturbs them--a soldier, a farmer, a shepherd, a child attracted by the lure of a shiny metal object.<br><br>Cluster bombs are, by definition, inaccurate weapons that are designed to affect a very wide area unpredictably. If they do not discriminate between civilian and military targets when they are dropped, they certainly do not discriminate in the months and years after the end of hostilities, when they go on killing and maiming anyone who happens upon them.<br><br>When the count of unexploded cluster bomblets passed 100,000, the United Nation's undersecretary-general for humanitarian affairs, Jan Egeland, expressed his disbelief at the scale of the problem.<br><br>"What's shocking and, I would say to me, completely immoral," he said, "is that 90% of the cluster-bomb strikes occurred in the last 72 hours of the conflict, when we knew there would be a resolution, when we really knew there would be an end of this."<br><br>That was on Aug. 30, by which time U.N. teams had identified 359 separate cluster-bomb sites.<br><br>Since then, the true dimensions of the problem have become even clearer: 770 cluster-bomb sites have now been identified. And <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>the current U.N. estimate is that Israel dropped between 2 million and 3 million bomblets on Lebanon, of which up to a million have yet to explode.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br>In fact, it is estimated that there are more unexploded bomblets in southern Lebanon than there are people. They lurk in tobacco fields, olive groves, on rooftops, in farms, mixed in with rubble. They are injuring two or three people every day, according to the United Nations, and have killed 20 people since the cease-fire in August.<br><br>"What we did was insane and monstrous," one Israeli commander admitted to the newspaper Haaretz. "<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>We covered entire towns in cluster bombs."</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br>As Egeland noted, the majority of these bombs were dropped in the last three days of the war--a time when the U.N. resolution to end the fighting had been agreed on, when the war was virtually over, when it was clear that Israel had failed to accomplish its declared objectives in launching this campaign.<br><br>Dropped so late in the war, it's hard to imagine what specific military objective these bombs could possibly have been meant to accomplish. <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Instead, they seem to have been dropped as a final, gratuitous act of violence in a war waged against an entire population. The vast majority of the 1,200 Lebanese killed by Israeli bombardments were civilians; one in three was a child.<br><br>With 100,000 innocent people trapped in the south because they could not, or dared not, flee on roads that Israel was indiscriminately bombing every day, Israel's justice minister declared that they were all--men, women and children--"terrorists who are related in some way to Hezbollah."<br><br>Nor was this his view alone. The Israelis dropped leaflets warning that "any vehicle of any kind traveling south of the Litani River will be bombed, on suspicion of transporting rockets, military equipment and terrorists." The Israeli chief of staff was especially clear. "Nothing is safe" in Lebanon, he said. "As simple as that."<br><br>Israel carried out 7,000 air raids and fired 160,000 artillery projectiles into Lebanon, a tiny country. That's about two air raids and 40 projectiles per square mile.<br><br>But the punishment was not evenly distributed. Israel's war was aimed specifically at Lebanon's Shiite population. Shiite neighborhoods in Beirut were destroyed, but other neighborhoods remained untouched. Shiite villages in the south were obliterated--literally wiped from the surface of the Earth--while nearby Christian villages escaped unscathed, mercifully able to shelter their Shiite neighbors.<br><br>Israeli officials said this was a war against Hezbollah, that Hezbollah was hiding in the midst of the population. But this wasn't a war against Hezbollah. It was a war to punish the entire population for its support of the guerrillas.<br><br>Not only was Hezbollah not hiding behind civilians, it ought to be obvious that the violence was directed in the first instance at the civilians themselves. To direct such violence at one community, one religious group, one minority--and to deny them the ability to return safely home--was what this war was all about.<br><br>To drop two or three bomblets for every man, woman and child in southern Lebanon--after having wiped out their homes, smashed their communities, destroyed their livelihoods--is to wage war against them all.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br>And we supplied the weapons.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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What I dont understand about all of this....

Postby slimmouse » Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:44 pm

What I dont understand about all of this, is that when one looks at what is really happening here,certain people try and understand this massacre, murder, overall sickness, as something that isn't attributable to anything other than a soulless murdering bunch of Masonic KKK fucks, who are delving into areas of human behaviour that is anything but normal.<br><br> I wonder what Bvo, in HER world of "The world is explainable" by normalcy would make of this; Or how your average human being could possible relate this to normalcy ? <br><br> If this is rationally explicable in your neck of the woods, dont invite me to any local homeviewings.<br><br> I know what I make of it. This has nothing to do with "normalcy". This is behaviour twisted way beyond the human compass.<br><br> These are truly the actions of Demonic sadists.<br><br> At this point, might I suggest that those who dont understand the literal definition of Demonic, get a dictionary out and check it out, before issuing some kind of insanity warning against this post.<br><br> The kind of mindless insanity exhibited in the Lebanon , which is quite frankly inexplicable, by any "normal" standards, is entirely typical and consistent with the kind of depravity that I personally can readily associate with the soulless demonic possessed, and is also that "quality" whom people such as Icke, (whom Bvohansan seems to suggest "simply ramble on without proof) have been telling you about for years.<br><br> How much fucking proof does one need, would be my immediate question ?<br><br> Bvo can please her good self. <br><br> I Meanwhile, would suggest, that anyone who complains that people such as Icke and myself, who would argue that such actions <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>arent</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> influenced by wierdness way beyond the norm, are one cluster bomblet short of a full bomb. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=slimmouse@rigorousintuition>slimmouse</A> at: 10/23/06 7:51 pm<br></i>
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Re: What I dont understand about all of this....

Postby AlicetheCurious » Tue Oct 24, 2006 5:19 am

Slimmouse, in a way, I wish you were right, and there was some supernatural explanation for the mind-boggling evil that is swallowing so many helpless people day after bloody day. Then, it would make sense to stay home, get down on our knees and pray for divine intervention to counter the demonic forces.<br><br>I'm not saying that prayer is useless, but I am afraid that this evil is all too human, and it will take human intervention to stop it.<br><br>Unfortunately, people have enormous potential for evil; I'm thinking of those experiments with psychology students, where a group was arbitrarily divided into prisoners and wardens, and then the wardens gradually became more sadistic and bullying, while the prisoners became more passive and submissive.<br><br>And that other one, where subjects were told to push a button that would give another student a progressively more painful electric shock every time the student got a wrong answer. Despite feeling uneasy at first, most of the subjects did follow orders and keep pressing the button, even though the students were screaming in pain.<br><br>I'd look these experiments up, but I'm on my way out and in a huge hurry.<br><br>I think these experiments are crucial to our understanding of human cruelty. I think at least some of it, the Israeli kind in particular, can be explained by the fact that there is no accountability, on the contrary, they have been richly rewarded for engaging in mass murder and sadistic bullying.<br><br>I think that when you reward people for cruelty, and they know there will be no punishment, while demonizing and dehumanizing their victims, you're playing with fire, you're unleashing some pretty horrible forces, what you think are "demons" are merely the same-old, same-old, garden variety human evil.<br><br>That's why civilized peoples have laws that apply to everyone without discrimination and carefully-calibrated penalties, and why there is a police force to enforce the laws, and a judge, jury, defence and prosecution, as well as effective mechanisms to preserve their independence and integrity.<br><br>Those are all necessary to keep the "demons" weak and securely enchained. Without them, the 'gates of hell' have been left unlocked and unguarded.<br><br>Pick up a history book sometime. You'd be amazed. <p></p><i></i>
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