Confusion over Jeffs recent post.

by **slimmouse** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 12:21 am

Are their shapeshifters or arent there ? Ive read recently that even modern science ( buried no doubt in the also-ran articles of recent journals ) have achieved some kind of shapeshifting in physical form. Which kind of makes you wonder how so many posts on the link describe the phenomena as impossible. Gotta love that kind of analysis, given that according to the vast majority of modern scientists , at least 95% of our universe ( on the low side ) consists of matter that we know nothing about . But of course we know better. Were the guys using rigorous intuition <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/pimp.gif ALT=":hat"> Right we are <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)">

by **marykmusic** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 1:25 am

Remember, this is Part 1. Ol' Jeff's having a stressed-out holiday, is my assessment (and I hope I'm wrong.) Plus, by now the "new" has worn off of the baby, and sleepless nights are what remains. YES there are shape-shifters; Navajo black magick is a well-known source of stories about same. They're not the only indigenous tribe that has such a thing, wither. I've only seen it once, when we lived on the corner of the Nez Perce rez. And it may not have been one of theirs. "Medicine" is also correctly used in this context: "Good" and "Bad." These roughly correlate to Black and White magick in our culture. There are other forms of this type of thing: bi-location is one. Known in the mystical Sufi and Yogic studies, there are many stories... Rasputin was supposed to be able to shape-shift... but he was probably part- or all-lizard. --MaryK

by **Rigorous Intuition** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 1:32 am

It's confusing for me, too. But I don't mean to say there are or there aren't. What I found interesting is that shapeshifting, either as folklore or genuine phenomenon, is indigenous to America, and like UFOs needn't be attributed to ETs. Such as it is, it'll be more about shamanism, magick and mind control.

by **firstimer** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:41 am

EZ, I wasn't left with a feeling of ambiguity. I felt that it was clearly up to us, not Jeff to "run with it" into our own lives. I'm reading it like a poetic overlay of a series of events/players with a metaphysical cultural practice "skinwalking" to derive connections and reveal insight into the intent of the players. If you filter everything in your life by what you believe, or what you think can be proven, you cannot even process most of what happens to you, much less any shapeshifter, skinwalker, or researcher. Ideas that are not even true can be used to generate ideas that become true. Truth and Fiction: Different shapes of the same object? firstimer

by **Seventhson** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 3:15 am

They shape shift into butterflies. We as humans shapeshift from one or two celled creatures to billions of celled human beings. So the idea of shapeshifting is not as far out as many may seem to think. Look at the regeneration of tails in lizards or things like worms and other critters the self-generate. The IDEA of shapeshifting seems extremely unlikely in human beings - but in nature shapeshifting is a fact. It is easy to see how other cultures, especially primitive ones, would observe this phenomenon and believe it was possible for humans --- especially given the vast mysteries of life in general (not to mention the effect of hallucinogens). Why it would seem strange in alien beings (which are strange enough conceptually anyway) is beyond me...

by ir » Sat Dec 31, 2005 5:03 am

for me this post was a trigger. few years back i was kind of led to see a psychic lady in marine country, she works with a system called "the michael system", that sort of divides people into types and levels etc. etc. -- She told me i was incarnated once as a skinwalker (till then, never heard of that term) from the american indians, in pre colombian times, like thousands of years ago. i was a witch and my specialty was shapeshifting into something maybe wolve and assassinating people by contract, as in ":a job". - that was smart of her to say, in a way catching some of the programming, but not seeing this programming OR worse off, "justifying" it by way of karma (you did it now you are justified in being victim thereof.) She reinforced the guilt that many survivors of MC are locked in, as part of the core programming. this "reading" set me back, i can't even assess how much. Later I found out she is a german and although born in american her father or grandfather was Nazi high up tried in nuremberg. I know that doesn't necesarilyt mean she is bad, but it chilled me to think I opened up my chakras for her evil intentions. Now I am thinking that perhaps there are traces of "psychic killing" programming in me, namely, some tacit encouargement to use focused lethal anger at someone, or something like that. this would be in the form of a male angry alter. not sure, also, everyone who is being systematically tortured and stripped of power, would resort to this method. we all fantasize killing people who anger or hurt us. Tonight I had a strange dream, where in I am walking (proudly.sort of half cocked) with a tiger who I have tamed and is MINe. then he goes into a house where there is another tiger and I am concerned they will start a fight and it will get out of hand. I am tring to look for a safe room to get into with my kids, before the mess starts but then it gets really tricky there's a long corridor can't find the room. the tigers, in the meantime just check each other but they can become agressive any moment. -- I think that captures it. aggression getting out of hand. healthy agression turned against the self.. I am sure the perps of MC are deep into indigenous research, there is power there, so they'll be found there. Ayasuka, shapeshifting, mushrooms....they'll be there for sure. let's hope the spirits of the natives are aware of the intentions and cheat them. Its a great post, I'll be looking for the next part.

by **marykmusic** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 1:08 pm

There are shapeshifting stories from around the world. (Did I mention that, among other things, I'm an active storyteller?) and not just HERE. Black magick is usually, but not always, involved. No time to go into particulars now (gotta go to work), but I'll be back later. --MaryK

by **starroute** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 1:45 pm

<a href="http://www.bookrags.com/other/religion/berserkers-eorl-02.html">www.bookrags.com/other/re...rl-02.html</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>BERSERKERS. The Old Norse term berserkr was used to identify certain fierce warriors with animal characteristics. According to Old Norse literature, particularly the later sagas, berserkers howled like animals in battle and bit their shields. They felt no blows and had unnatural or supernatural strength, which gave way to languor after battle. The earliest attestation of the term, however, which occurs in the poem Haraldskvæði (attributed to two different poets), presents berserks as the shock troops of King Harald Fairhair at the Battle of Hafrsfjörðr (end of ninth century): 8. They [the warships] were laden with men and with white shields with western spears and Welsh [French] swords: berserks wailed, battle had begun for them, ulfheðnar ["wolf skins"] howled, irons shook. 20. About the gear [service?] of berserks I want to ask, tasters of carrion-sea [blood], how it is for the ones who go into the army, battle-brave men. 21. They are called ulfheð-nar who in battle bear bloodied shields; they redden spears when they come to battle: there they work in common; among champions alone I think would conceal himself The wise king, Among those who hack at shields. In this tradition, at least, it is clear that there was little difference between berserkers and ulfheðnar. For this reason, many scholars understand the term berserkr as "bear-shirt," and they take both terms to refer to shape-changing in the manner of werewolves and man-bears, or perhaps to animal cloaks the warriors may have worn. Others, however, have ignored this passage and argued that the word berserkr means "bare-shirted" and refers to the berserkers' lack of armor. Explanations of the berserksgangr ("going berserk" ) include self-induced or group ecstasy, psychosis, or lycanthropy. In Norse mythology berserkers are associated primarily with the god Óðinn. In his Ynglingasaga—a euhemerized account of the origin of the royal line of the Ynglingar that constitutes the first saga in his famous Heimskringla (c. 1230)—the Icelandic mythographer Snorri Sturluson gives an explicit description of the berserksgangr and attributes it specifically to Óðinn warriors (chap. 6). Óðinn also is master of the einherjar, dead warriors who inhabit Valholl, spending their days in battle, their evenings in feasting and drinking. The religious complex suggested by these and other data is that of an ecstatic warrior cult of Óðinn, whose name, coming from the Proto-Germanic term *woþanaz, appears to mean "leader of the possessed." This cult probably involved strict rules of initiation, similar perhaps to those attributed by Tacitus to the Chatti (Germania 30). Óðinn's association with the einherjar may also imply worship of the dead within this cult. Its central moment, however, was presumably some form of religious ecstasy. Iconographic evidence for this cult includes cast-bronze dies from Torslunda, Sweden, which show dancing warriors with theriomorphic features.<hr></blockquote> I'd like to counterpoint this by quoting something I already posted in the original thread at Jeff's blog: <blockquote>Quote:<hr>While complete alterations of form seem highly implausible, Michell and Rickard's "Phenomena" does have a section on "bodily elongation," which seems to be related to stigmata and most often occurs among religious ecstatics, mediums, or in connection with poltergeist phenomena. The cases they cite include elongations of the limbs or neck, swelling of the limbs or torso, and displacement of ribs or shoulder blades. And they conclude by saying, "We have no doubt that spontaneous cases of elongation or bodily distortion have,within the context of different mythologies, coincided, or given rise to, genuine beliefs in transmogrification and shape-shifting. Perhaps a more gentle form of this can be seen in the occasional alterations to voice, face and posture of mediums during seances and priests during exorcism."<hr></blockquote> When I posted this to Jeff's thread, I wasn't thinking of the berserkers at all, so I'm really struck by the correspondences -- particularly the element of religious ecstasy. On one hand, you have "going berserk," which we normally think of as just a psychological effect, perhaps enhanced by wearing animal skins. On the other, we have the indication that certain intense religious states can cause actual bodily deformation (though nothing approaching the complete transformations into animal form of the myths.) With this in mind, I have no problem at all in equating berserkers=shapeshifters=werewolves=skinwalkers. No doubt the African leopard man cults fit in there too. And given the statement that Odinn's name means "leader of the possessed," perhaps various voodoo and possession phenomena should be considered related as well. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=starroute>starroute</A> at: 12/31/05 10:45 am

by **heyjt** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 3:44 pm

Somewhere I read that it was believed the Norse may have also used some type of hallucinogen at times in battle, perhaps a mushroom. This could have even made them think they were bears or wolves in battle. As far as shapeshifting being an American native concept (north and south), what about the European legends of Werewolves and Vampires, etc.?

by **Et in Arcadia ego** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 4:38 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>what about the European legends of Werewolves and Vampires, etc.?<hr></blockquote> There's been a long-standing suggested explanation for this: <blockquote>Quote:<hr>The diet of medieval peasants may have been another source of lycanthropic delusions. Bread was frequently made from ergot infected grains. Ergot is a fungus of which alkaloids are chemically related to LSD (LysergicAcid Diethylamide, a strong hallucinogenic psychoactive drug. The drug produces dreamlike changes in mood and thought, and alters the perception of time and space. It can create a feeling of lack of self-control, extreme terror and blur the feeling between the individual and the environment.) Like this modern drug, ergot infected grains can induce powerful and long lasting hallucination. In 1951, nearly 135 people had to be hospitalized and 6 died from ergot poisoning in the French town of Pont St. Esprit. They ate bread made from fungus infected rye. The victims had horrible visions of being attacked by tigers and snakes and of turning into beasts. This incident suggests that organic hallucination, rather than supernatural causes, may explain the werewolf phenomenon.<hr></blockquote> This, of course, does not account for American Indian Myth/Legend, although the contaminated bread was also present in the Colonies.

by **starroute** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 8:41 pm

Definitely part of the same complex. I think this stuff almost certainly goes back to the Paleolithic -- which means there's no need to ask, "How would it get from...?" It went wherever the ancient hunters went. <a href="http://www.unexplainedstuff.com/Secret-Societies/The-Leopard-Men.html">www.unexplainedstuff.com/...d-Men.html</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>For many centuries a leopard cult has existed in West Africa, particularly in Nigeria and Sierra Leone, wherein its members kill as does the leopard, by slashing, gashing, and mauling their human prey with steel claws and knives. Later, during gory ceremonies, they drink the blood and eat the flesh of human victims. Those initiates who aspire to become members of the cult must return from a night's foray with a bottle of their victim's blood and drink it in the presence of the assembled members. The cultists believe that a magical elixir known as borfima, which they brew from their victim's intestines, grants them superhuman powers and enables them to transform themselves into leopards. The members of the cult kill on the slightest pretext. Perhaps one of the members became ill or his crops failed. Such misfortunes as these would be sufficient to demand a human sacrifice. A likely victim would be chosen, the date and time of the killing agreed upon, and the executioner, known as the Bati Yeli, would be selected. The Bati Yeli wore the ritual leopard mask and a leopard skin robe. It was preferable that the sacrifice be performed at one of the leopard cult's jungle shrines, but if circumstances demanded a more immediate shedding of blood, the rite could be conducted with the ceremonial twopronged steel claw anywhere at all. The first really serious outbreak of leopard-cult murders in Sierra Leone and Nigeria occurred shortly after World War I (1914–18 ). At that time, it was believed the cult was suppressed by the region's white administrators because many of its members were captured and executed. However, in actual fact, the leopard men simply went underground, continuing to perform ritual murders sporadically every year over the next two decades. In 1946, the leopard men became bold and there were 48 cases of murder and attempted murder committed by the leopard cult in that year alone. And it soon became obvious that, much like the Mau-Mau in Kenya, the leopard men had begun directing many of their attacks against white men as if to convince the native population that the cult had no fear of the police or of the white rulers. The trend continued during the first seven months of 1947, when there were 43 known ritual killings performed by the leopard cult. Terry Wilson had been district officer of a province in Eastern Nigeria for only six months when, early in 1947, he discovered that the leopard men had begun operating in his jurisdiction, claiming mainly young women as their victims. When Wilson raided the house of a local chief named Nagogo, his men found a leopard mask, a leopard-skin robe, and a steel claw. Acting on a tip from an informer, Wilson ordered his police officers to dig near the chief's house, where they found the remains of 13 victims. The chief was put in prison to await trial, and Wilson set out on a determined mission to put an end to the leopard men's reign of terror. . . . Around midnight, just as Wilson was beginning to think about returning to the compound, a nightmarish figure crawling on all fours emerged from the jungle, pounced on the young officer's corpse, and began clawing at his face like a leopard. But rather than claws raking the body, Wilson caught the glint of a two-pronged steel claw in the moonlight. The killer had returned to complete the cult ritual of sacrifice. Wilson advanced on the leopard man, and the robed murderer snarled at him as if he were truly a big cat. When he came at him with the two-pronged claw, Wilson shot him in the chest. With Wilson's act of courage, the natives of the region had been provided with proof that the leopard men were not supernatural beings that could not be stopped. The members of the cult did not have magic that could make them impervious to bullets. They were, after all, men of flesh and blood—savage, bestial, and vicious—but men, nonetheless. Once word had spread that the district officer had killed one of the leopard men, witnesses began to come forward in great numbers with clues to the identity of cult members and the possible location of a secret jungle shrine. The shrine itself was discovered deep in the jungle, cunningly hidden and protected by a large boulder. The cult's altar was a flat stone slab that was covered with dark bloodstains. Human bones were strewn over the ground. A grotesque effigy of a half-leopard, half-man towered above the gory altar.<hr></blockquote>

by **slimmouse** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 11:46 pm

Might I once again recommend, that for all of you with genuinely open minds - and if there arent open minds on here what chance is there <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/ohwell.gif ALT=":\"> - that you beg, steal or borrow a copy of David Ickes latest book. Then come back to this board. Take the arguments to bits if you can. Be my guest. Heres my sworn affadavit to this board. I'd been into the parapolitical sphere for more than long enough, and had avoided Icke like the plague, due to the claims of "over the top/insanity/ antisemitism/ madman" claims. Then someone lent me a book of his. If it hadnt been free, I get the impression I would still have been splashing around in what I would generally describe in terms of this board as "our world". But of course having read 3 chapters of one book, I suddenly realised why everyone and his friend were calling the man insane. Try it, and come back to me. If youre dissapointed you can hold me responsible ! Jeff and David Icke strike me as Monads. This was one of my reasons for begginning this entire thread - not to push any old Icke book, but out of genuine confusion as to any essential differences in their overall perception CURRENTLY. Currently being a very important word. Try his latest book, and prove me wrong

by **Floyd Smoots** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:08 am

BOOKS?? We don' need no stinkin' books!!! I thought Resident Busch burnt all dem stinkin' books back in Ought Two! You mean ta tell me we still got BOOKS floatin' 'roun' out here???

by **professorpan** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 6:30 pm

Shape-shifting is most definitely a cross-cultural, ancient metaphor. Every shamanic system I have studied has alluded to humans transforming into animals. I suspect this is mostly metaphorical, and facilitated by altered states and psychedelic compounds. But... there are some very reliable people (such as ethnobotanist Mark Plotkin, author of Tales of a Shaman's Apprentice) who have had what seem to be literal visitations of a shapeshifted human. When we approach the liminal world, literal and metaphorical can be indistinguishable.

Confusion over Jeffs recent post.

Confusion over Jeffs recent post.

Re: Confusion over Jeffs recent post.

Re: Confusion over Jeffs recent post.

Truth and Fiction: Different shapes of the same object?

One word: Caterpillars

t(r)ig(g)er

Not just American Indian

The Berserkers are also part of the pattern

Berserkers

Re: Berserkers

Re: African Leopard Cult

Might I recomend.

Re: Might I recomend.

Re: Might I recomend.

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