Hancock on drugs, entities, DNA

by **heyjt** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 10:43 pm

Fantastic paintings and themes. Isn't the incredibly loud noise Pablo heard when he first saw the saucer a common theme in a lot of entity sightings, such as Jeffs post on the sightings of (was it the virgin Mary?) in Europe etc.? As well as with people experimenting with DMT; the loud noise...

by **professorpan** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 12:04 am

A loud humming or buzzing often accompanies "threshold" experiences: UFO sightings/abductions, OBEs, DMT intoxication, BVM encounters, apparitions, etc. The DMT sound is a little different, though. It's more like hundreds of tinny, high-pitched voices chattering. At least for some people. When the veil (or chrysanthemum) rips, it often sounds literally like fabric ripping. Only in this case, the fabric is reality itself :-) Salvia users also talk about a crackling sound (which uninformed or anti-entheogen people often explain as "neurons popping"). Since the buzzing or humming sound can be produced by an endogenous substance (DMT, carried inside every human being), it has always made me wonder if interdimensionals/entities/daimons -- supposing they exist -- interact with us by altering our brain chemistry. Makes as much sense as anything else.

by **mother** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 1:02 am

I think it's tragic that the potential usefullness of these psychadelics isn't tapped, that they're illegal and that there is any stigma whatsoever attached to their use. Has anyone ever gone to Jamaica and had "sky juice"? Who knows what's exactly in it, it's like mushroom tea(but are there even any cow pastures in Jamaica?) but with a little something else, very, very smooth and gentle. It could not possibly do anything except heal atroubled mind. I will always treasure my first class at art school because the proffessor passed around a joint. (this wasn't on the East Coast) My husband is a substance abuse counsellor with a high success rate of helping people in big trouble, but it's never ever about pot or the other stuff with all the medical possibilities. It's mostly booze and crack ruining people's lives, and the lives of their children. He still thinks mild psychedelics could be very useful in helping alcoholics to get some perspective on their behavior and the effect it has on others, I agree. Something like Sky Juice when healing from abuse and trauma could be enormously helpful, for example in helping someone realize that love is possible. My paintings are not in any famous museum, but every one I've done exept one has been exhibited in a respectable venue. My present circumstances forbid any hint of illegality, but it would be great if the laws were changed. "They" probabably have hogged up all the good stuff for themselves.

by **robertdreed** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 1:43 am

Back when LSD was still legal, people like Hoffer and Osmond had very encouraging results with using LSD as a catalyst to get people to permanently stop drinking. And before that, the Native American Church was started by Native Americans who had reformed themselves from alcoholism after peyote experiences. Few North American Indian tribes were traditional users of peyote, incidentally. The peyote religion- actually a syncretic variant of Christianity- began after all of the Plains tribes had already been confined to reservations, mostly moved to Oklahoma. The religion became very popular with tribes like the Kiowa-Comanche and the Winnebago. Eventually, the Native American Church was chartered with the aid of a group of "Carlisle School Indians", and the anthropologist James Mooney. The Carlisle School Indians had been hand-picked by Christian missionaries as the best and the brightest- groomed to assimilate, to be made culturally "white." But a group of the brightest students rebelled against this plan and began the Native American Church reform movement, a way of building a bridge between their Indian-ness and the world of the European settlers. Much emphasis was placed on the value of the peyote service in keeping people sober. Eventually, the cause of the church went to the Supreme Court- the white missionaries had become alarmed by the "peyote Christians", and enlisted a few Native Americans from the ranks of their own, more "assimilated" converts to give testimony that peyote was a noxious, harmful intoxicant. But the Carlisle School gradautes showed up to advocate for the other side of the issue, and won the day for the right to use peyote in their ceremonies. I know all of this because I did a paper on it in a Native American Studies class that I took at U.C. Davis. I got an A+ on it ;^) Sobriety has always been a tenet of the Native American Church. Unfortunately, I'm not nearly as reassured by illegal LSD use, especially by young people who are gobbling it as part of a multi-substance sampling of mind alterants. That tends to be much more irresonsiple, trending toward polydrug abuse. And I think that much of the beneficial effect of psychedelics gets diluted or thwarted when they're taken in the wrong mindset, or in a cultural milieu that lacks proper appreciation of their potential. Criminal drug use environments tend to shoot the whole transcendental scenario all to hell. I'm amazed at the fact that despite that, I've known some people to still get a sense of something profound out of psychedelics, even in the most juvenile delinquent sorts of circumstances. But once someone has taken LSD or mushrooms and gone on to develop alcoholism or addiction problems, I think that LSD or other psychedelics have sort of been exhausted of their value to remediate the situation. It's been alluded to before here in this topic- psychedelic drugs aren't "pleasure drugs." That's why people don't get addicted to them. The experience often takes the form of an ordeal, for at least part of the journey. Terence McKenna once compared it to sailing a small skiff out on to the ocean. One has to be prepared for all sorts of circumstances. One might find that their excursion is nothing but a placid cruise in the unutterably beautiful moonlight- or it might get stormy. Or everything might seem to be under control- only to have something as big as a house come bounding up out of the depths... That's nothing like drinking a bottle of whiskey, smoking crack, snorting meth, shooting heroin, etc. As long as the quality of the product is there, usres know what they're going to get every time with those substances...

by **professorpan** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 4:55 am

I sat in a teepee meeting with the Native American Church (NAC). I'll tell anyone, without question, that it is *not* about getting off on drugs. It's a grueling, 12 hour-plus ordeal. And it's praying. LOTS of praying. And then more praying. After that experience, I recalled my days of churchgoing as a kid and realized how easy I'd had it. What's an hour on a wooden pew compared to fifteen hours on a blanket on the cold December ground? The ceremony was aesthetically beautiful, and entirely focused on brining the people together and cementing bonds, whether between a couple having marital problems or the group in general. The ceremony was almost entirely in Navajo, but the Road Man acknowledged us (the only non Indians) in English and made us feel welcome. Several of the participants were Vietnam veterans who had walked -- yes walked -- from the Southwest to the East Coast. They Road Man and the assembly honored them and prayed for them. A very old woman -- at least in her 80s -- sat next to me, completely still, the entire time. I struggled not to fidget after the first couple of hours. The drumming, songs, and prayer went on all night and into the morning, all in a mood of somber, focused prayer. There was also much crying. It was the farthest thing from a party I could imagine. This was therapy, ritual, and hard, bone-numbing prayer. I count myself as incredibly lucky to have taken part, as the NAC group could have gotten in trouble for letting me in. Also, a couple of young guys (in their 20s) were clearly not happy that my friend and I were participating. But they didn't say anything overtly negative, and eventually seemed to accept us. As rdr mentioned, the religion is a syncretic combination of pre-Christian beliefs with some Christianity. Jesus is often mentioned in the prayers. After participating in that deeply moving ceremony, I can't help but bristle when people condemn psychedelics as escapist "drugs." The peyote isn't the focus of the ceremony at all -- it just faciliates the gestalt and strengthens the bonds of all involved. I'm not a conventionally religious person, but the experience in that teepee brought me closer to other people -- a sense of tangible agape and universal brotherhood -- than any other church service, meditation, or philosophic discussion. I will always be grateful to the Navajo (Dineh) for allowing me to share their ceremony.

by **dragon feathers Jack** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 9:25 am

banned, you're a moron. you should be banned. drugs - apart from the witchunts to wipe out healers and shamans in those early genocides - have only been under attack in the last hundred years max. - coincidently this culture is a big mess, most people don't even know their own history of any civilisations nor their ancestors - can't trace anything back to origins. oh i wonder if those two things *might* be related. yes you don't need drugs to expand the mind, same way you don't need to read a book or study to learn something, same way you don't have to eat food to stay alive for a while, same way you don't necessarily have to drive to a place 50 miles away because it is possible to walk there..........

by **professorpan** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 1:30 pm

Let's not bring banned back into this. She stated her case, and we've moved on. There's no need to rehash those arguments again now that the conversation is getting interesting.

by **dragon feathers Jack** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 1:46 pm

what, is she not here anymore then? i guess it doesn't matter if so, i was replying to the earlier statements made.

by **dragon feathers Jack** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 1:48 pm

is 'banned' that pile of crap 'stinky' from deoxy?

by **hanshan** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 3:57 pm

<a href="http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://pages.ripco.net/~saxmania/petermax2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://pages.ripco.net/~saxmania/triadinterviews.html&h=306&w=182&sz=24&tbnid=S0hATTjrexUJ:&tbnh=112&tbnw=66&hl=en&start=72&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpeter%2Bmax%26start%3D60%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN" target="top"><img src="http://www.p4a.com/item_images/medium/11/00/24-01.jpg" style="border:0;"/></a> <img src="http://www.dking-gallery.com/pix/MaxEarth.jpg" style="border:0;"/> <a href="http://www.prismagems.com/castaneda/donjuan4.html" target="top">Tales of Power</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr> Dreaming entails cultivating a peculiar control over one's dreams to the extent that the experiences undergone in them and those lived in one's waking hours acquire the same pragmatic valence. The sorcerers' allegation is that under the impact of dreaming the ordinary criteria to differentiate a dream from reality becomes inoperative. There are three kinds of bad habits which we use over and over when confronted with unusual life situations. First, we may disregard what's happening or has happened and feel as if it had never occurred. That one is the bigot's way. Second, we may accept everything at its face value and feel as if we know what's going on. That's the pious man's way. Third, we may become obsessed with an event because either we cannot disregard it or we cannot accept it wholeheartedly. That's the fool's way. There is a fourth, the correct one, the warrior's way. A warrior acts as if nothing had ever happened, because he doesn't believe in anything, yet he accepts everything at its face value. He accepts without accepting and disregards without disregarding. He never feels as if he knows, neither does he feel as if nothing had ever happened. He acts as if he is in control, even though he might be shaking in his boots. To act in such a manner dissipates obsession. Sorcerers say that we are inside a bubble. It is a bubble into which we are placed at the moment of our birth. At first the bubble is open, but then it begins to close until it has sealed us in. That bubble is our perception. We live inside that bubble all of our lives. And what we witness on its round walls is our own reflection. If what we witness on the walls is our own reflection, then the thing that's being reflected must be the real thing. The thing reflected is our view of the world. That view is first a description, which is given to us from the moment of our birth until all our attention is caught by it and the description becomes a view Our mistake is to believe that the only perception worthy of acknowledgment is what goes through our reason .<hr></blockquote> **** <a href="http://www.prismagems.com/castaneda/donjuan5.html" target="top">The Second Ring o</a>[/link] <blockquote>Quote:<hr>From that moment on there is a breakage, a division of sorts in the otherwise unified personality. The result of engaging the attention of the nagual and developing it to the height and sophistication of our daily attention of the world is the other self, an identical being as oneself, but made in dreaming . There are no definite standard steps for reaching that double, as there are no definite steps for us to reach our daily awareness. We simply do it by practicing. First after leaves, gaze at small plants. Small plants are very dangerous. Their power is concentrated; they have a very intense light and they feel when dreamers are gazing at them; they immediately move their light and shoot it at the gazer.<hr></blockquote> <a href="http://www.prismagems.com/castaneda/donjuan8.html" target="top">The Power of Silence</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>It isn't that as time goes by you're learning sorcery; rather, what you're learning is to save energy. And this energy will enable you to handle some of the energy fields which are inaccessible to you now. And that is sorcery: the ability to use energy fields that are not employed in perceiving the ordinary world we know. Sorcery is a state of awareness. Sorcery is the ability to perceive something which ordinary perception cannot.Ulterior means knowledge without words, outside our immediate comprehension, not beyond our ultimate possibilities for understanding. The ulterior arrangement of the abstract is knowledge without words or the edifice of intent . The ulterior arrangement of the abstract is to know the abstract directly, without the intervention of language. And what any of us does with that increased perception, with that silent knowledge, depends on our own temperament. The difficulty is our reluctance to accept the idea that knowledge can exist without words to explain it. Accepting this proposition is not as easy as saying you accept it. The whole of humanity has moved away from the abstract. It takes years for an apprentice to be able to go back to the abstract, that is, to know that knowledge and language can exist independent of each other. The crux of our difficulty in going back to the abstract is our refusal to accept that we can know without words or even without thoughts. Knowledge and language are separate. The secret of our chains is that they imprison us, but by keeping us pinned down on our comfortable spot of self-reflection, they defend us from the onslaughts of the unknown. Once our chains are cut, we are no longer bound by the concerns of the daily world. We are still in the daily world, but we don't belong there anymore. In order to belong we must share the concerns of people. And without chains we can't. What distinguishes normal people is that we share a metaphorical dagger: the concerns of our self-reflection. With this dagger, we cut ourselves and bleed; and the job of our chains of self-reflection is to give us the feeling that we are bleeding together, that we are sharing something wonderful: our humanity. But if we were to examine it, we would discover that we are bleeding alone; that we are not sharing anything; that all we are doing is toying with our manageable, unreal, man-made reflection. Not thinking about death protects us from worrying about it. But that purpose is an unworthy one for average men and a travesty for sorcerers. Without a clear view of death, there is no order, no sobriety, no beauty. Sorcerers struggle to gain this crucial insight in order to help them realize at the deepest possible level that they have no assurance whatsoever their lives will continue beyond the moment. That realization gives sorcerers the courage to be patient and yet take action, courage to be acquiescent without being stupid.[/i] ...this poem by José Gorostiza.  ...this incessant stubborn dying, this living death, that slays you, oh God, in your rigorous handiwork, in the roses, in the stones, in the indomitable stars and in the flesh that burns out, like a bonfire lit by a song, a dream, a hue that hits the eye. ...and you, yourself, perhaps have died eternities of ages out there, without us knowing about it, we dregs, crumbs, ashes of you; you that still are present, like a star faked by its very light, an empty light without star that reaches us, hiding its infinite catastrophe.  As the feeling of the individual self became stronger, man lost his natural connection to silent knowledge. Modern man, being heir to that development, therefore finds himself so hopelessly removed from the source of everything that all he can do is express his despair in violent and cynical acts of self-destruction. The reason for man's cynicism and despair is the bit of silent knowledge left in him, which does two things: one, it gives man an inkling of his ancient connection to the source of everything; and two, it makes man feel that without this connection, he has no hope of peace, of satisfaction, of attainment. War is the natural state for a warrior, and peace is an anomaly. But war, for a warrior, doesn't mean acts of individual or collective stupidity or wanton violence. War, for a warrior, is the total struggle against that individual self that has deprived man of his power. The position of self-reflection forces the assemblage point to assemble a world of sham compassion, but of very real cruelty and self-centeredness. In that world the only real feelings are those convenient for the one who feelings them. The only worthwhile course of action, whether for sorcerers or average men, is to restrict our involvement with our self-image. What a nagual aims at with his apprentices is the shattering of their mirror of self-reflection. Each of us has a different degree of attachment to his self-reflection. And that attachment is felt as need. It is possible for sorcerers, or average men, to need no one, to get peace, harmony, laughter, knowledge, directly from the spirit--to need no intermediaries. human beings are creatures of inventory. Knowing the ins and outs of a particular inventory is what makes a man a scholar or an expert in his field. Sorcerers know that when an average person's inventory fails, the person either enlarges his inventory or his world of self-reflection collapses. The average person is willing to incorporate new items into his inventory if they don't contradict the inventory's underlying order. But if the items contradict that order, the person's mind collapses. The inventory is the mind. Sorcerers count on this when they attempt to break the mirror of self-reflection. * * * Continuity is so important in our lives that if it breaks it's always instantly repaired. A sorcerer's ticket to freedom is his death. I myself have paid with my life for that ticket to freedom, as has everyone else in my household. And now we are equals in our condition of being dead. You too are dead. The sorcerers' grand trick, however, is to be aware that they are dead. Their ticket to impeccability must be wrapped in awareness. In that wrapping, sorcerers say, their ticket is kept in mint condition. In a fight for your life, you feel no pain. If you feel anything, it's exultation. One of the most dramatic differences between civilized men and sorcerers is the way in which death comes to them. Only with sorcerer-warriors is death kind and sweet. They could be mortally wounded and yet would feel no pain. And what is even more extraordinary is that death holds itself in abeyance for as long as the sorcerers need it to do so. The greatest difference between an average man and a sorcerer is that a sorcerer commands his death with his speed. In the world of everyday life our word or our decisions can be reversed very easily. The only irrevocable thing in our world is death. In the sorcerers' world, on the other hand, normal death can be countermanded, but not the sorcerers' word. In the sorcerers' world decisions cannot be changed or revised. Once they have been made, they stand forever. * * * One of the most dramatic things about the human condition is the macabre connection between stupidity and self-reflection. It is stupidity that forces us to discard anything that does not conform with our self-reflective expectations. The world of daily life consists of two points of reference. We have for example, here and there, in and out, up and down, good and evil, and so on and so forth. So, properly speaking, our perception of our lives is two-dimensional. None of what we perceive ourselves doing has depth. A sorcerer perceives his actions with depth. His actions are tridimensional for him. They have a third point of reference. Our points of reference are obtained primarily from our sense perception. Our senses perceive and differentiate what is immediate to us from what is not. Using that basic distinction we derive the rest. In order to reach the third point of reference one must perceive two places at once. Normal perception has an axis. "Here and there" are the perimeters of that axis, and we are partial to the clarity of "here." In normal perception, only "here" is perceived completely, instantaneously, and directly. Its twin referent, "there," lacks immediacy. It is inferred, deduced, expected, even assumed, but it is not apprehended directly with all the senses. When we perceive two places at once, total clarity is lost, but the immediate perception of "there" is gained. * * * To discover the possibility of being in two places at once is very exciting to the mind. Since our minds are our rationality, and our rationality is our self-reflection, anything beyond our self-reflection either appalls us or attracts us, depending on what kind of persons we are. ...they remain keenly aware that we are perceivers and that perception has more possibilities than the mind can conceive. Man has a dark side. It's called stupidity. In the same measure that ritual forced the average man to construct huge churches that were monuments to self-importance, ritual also forced sorcerers to construct edifices of morbidity and obsession. As a result, it is the duty of every nagual to guide awareness so it will fly toward the abstract, free of liens and mortgages. Ritual can trap our attention better than anything I can think of. But it also demands a very high price. That high price is morbidity; and morbidity could have the heaviest liens and mortgages on our awareness. Human awareness is like an immense haunted house. The awareness of everyday life is like being sealed in one room of that immense house for life. We enter the room through a magical opening: birth. And we exit through another such magical opening: death. Sorcerers, however, are capable of finding still another opening and can leave that sealed room while still alive. A superb attainment. But their astounding accomplishment is that when they escape from that sealed room they choose freedom. They choose to leave that immense, haunted house entirely instead of getting lost in other parts of it. Morbidity is the antithesis of the surge of energy awareness needs to reach freedom. Morbidity makes sorcerers lose their way and become trapped in the intricate, dark byways of the unknown.<hr></blockquote>

by **robertdreed** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 4:22 pm

You're new here. "banned" actually has quite an incisive intellect. And she's paid a lot of dues in her life. There's no need to insult her- at least, not right off the bat ;^) I wrangle with "banned" some times, but we've also often been known to agree. I find it unfortunate that she feels the need to project her own personal difficulties with chemical mind alteration onto everyone else. It's the equivalent of someone with a fatal allergy to peanuts claiming that peanuts are evil, that there are lots of other food to eat, so why should grocery stores carry peanuts, anyone who enjoys eating peanuts has something wrong with them, etc. It's possible to maintain an abstemious life without resorting to being overbearing about other people's personal choices. I continue to hope that "banned" will see her way clear to doing this. It isn't that difficult, lots of other people in her position are able to do it. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=robertdreed>robertdreed</A> at: 12/20/05 1:25 pm

by **robertdreed** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 4:34 pm

Anthropological note: you may know this already- the peyote ceremony you were part of is significantly different than the Native American Church ceremonies of other North American tribes. The Navajo have their own unique variation. I don't recall offhand, but they may have been the one North American tribe north of south Texas/New Mexico that was using peyote before the 1890s. The tribes most identified with traditional- i.e., "pre-Columbian"- use of peyote are the tribes of northern Mexico, particularly the Huichol.

by **chillin** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 5:01 pm

I've read the first 8 or so books more than once... talk about your tricksters! DvD sales of the 2004 movie 'Carlos Casteneda - Enigma of Sorcerer' went on sale last week apparently. Thanks Hanshan, I wouldn't know about it without your post =) <a href="http://www.castanedamovie.com/intro2.html">www.castanedamovie.com/intro2.html</a>

by **robertdreed** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:11 pm

Castaneda has fantastic taste in poetry.

by **banned** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:21 pm

Yeah, for once I'm with the panster (mark it on the calendar!)--move on with yer crappy Peter Max "art" <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> (psychedelic, man! snore), I've moved on to read something more interesting too. Jack, from what I've seen of your posts you're a moron too, but I refrained from saying it since doing so seemed to be akin to pointing out the sky is blue. I should be banned for stating my opinion? Bit of a fucking fascist, aren't you, censoring free speech. Nah, I can't get it up to argue against someone that dumb. At least rdr and pan are smart enough to make it a challenge, and they've convinced me that some day, when I don't need my brain any more for anything practical, I WILL try hallucinogens. You'll know me, I'll be the old lady in the corner room at the nursing home with all the crappy Peter Max posters on her wall, claiming I saw God in my bedpan. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/roll.gif ALT=":rollin">

Hancock on drugs, entities, DNA

Very cool

The "buzz"

a good buzz would be nice

psychedelics and drug abuse/alcoholism

Re: psychedelics and drug abuse/alcoholism

Re: Spirtual emergency

Re: Spirtual emergency

Re: Spirtual emergency

Re:

re: buzzin' & hummin'/ juke jivin'

Dragon Feathers Jack...

Professor Pan...

Casteneda

Carlos

Thanks rdr :D

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