Hancock on drugs, entities, DNA

by **hanshan** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:56 pm

<a href="http://www.erowid.org/plants/amanitas/amanitas_writings5.shtml" target="top">Fly-Agaric Motifs in the Cú Chulaind Myth Cycle</a> by Thomas J Riedlinger 1999 Oct 29 presented at the Mycomedia Millennium Conference hosted by Fungi Perfecti at the Breitenbush Hot Springs Retreat and Conference Center in Detroit, Oregon Mushrooms History Of Magic Mushrooms <a href="http://www.a1b2c3.com/drugs/mus01.htm" target="top">Prehistoric Psychedelic Mushrooms</a> The oldest representations of hallucinogenic mushrooms in the world are in The Sahara Desert. They were produced 7000-9000 years ago. <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8583800&dopt=Abstract" target="top">Soma siddhas and alchemical enlightenment: psychedelic mushrooms in Buddhist tradition.</a> Hajicek-Dobberstein S. There is no positive correlation between illegality and danger. Indeed. ...

by **hanshan** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:10 pm

<img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/76/Dew_drops_on_spider_web.jpg" style="border:0;"/> <a href="http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.hashish.net/spidmesc.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.hashish.net/weblife.html&h=189&w=300&sz=16&tbnid=zXnBSOxc_OIJ:&tbnh=69&tbnw=111&hl=en&start=1&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dspider%2Bweb%2B%252Bmescaline%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D" target="top">images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.hashish.net/spidmesc.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.hashish.net/weblife.html&h=189&w=300&sz=16&tbnid=zXnBSOxc_OIJ:&tbnh=69&tbnw=111&hl=en&start=1&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dspider%2Bweb%2B%252Bmescaline%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D</a> ....

by **banned** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:51 pm

...why people get so pissed off that I happen to prefer my brain work without substances that interfere with my perceptions. On the other hand, I'm fine with a mild stimulant, in fact, get between me and my bottle of Mexican Co-Cola and you might lose a digit. Especially since I've said repeatedly that I am against limiting anyone else's right to use whatever substance floats their boat as long as it doesn't cause them to interfere with my rights--ie, shoot all the smack you want, just don't shoot me to get my wallet to buy more. Likewise get as coked up as you please, but realize after I hear that megalomaniac hectoring tone in your voice again I'm gonna hang up on you. And when you start telling me how you saw God in your toaster oven I'm going to say "Hey, great talking to you, gotta go see a man about a dog." I've known plenty of people who did various types of drugs. I have never had a single one of them tell me anything of value they learned by taking it. Oh, sure, THEY thought what they were saying was funny (grass), brilliant (coke), or penetrated into the very ground of hyperdimensional reality (LSD). I thought it was all either jejune or horse hockey or something anybody could have figured out anyway minus the substance. Oh, I had one friend on mescaline who walked out of a third story window thinking he could fly. There's a useful insight. Take all the drugs you want, if you see God tell him I said howdy do <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol">

by **scollon** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:56 pm

Banned There's no pont in Joe six pack taking steroids, he still isn't going to win the Olympic 100 metres, similarly he isn't likely to have profound insights into the strutcture of matter taking mescalin or LSD. He's more likely to step into fresh air forty feet avove the ground.

by **banned** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:04 pm

A dumb unperceptive person + drugs = dumb unperceptive person on drugs. A smart perceptive person doesn't need drugs. So who besides the people who sell the drugs, and the people whose egos get off on blathering about how superior they are to people who don't take drugs, is benefitting? FYI, us Coca Cola junkies think we're better than the Pepsiheads, and don't even talk to me about RC. Why, two bottles of the real stuff with cane sugar instead of corn syrup, and I think *I* am God. (I also think if I took cocaine I'd be insufferable--correction, more insufferable; if I took heroin I'd OD because my philosophy has always been if a little's good a lot must be better; and if I took LSD I would probably be splattered on some sidewalk because as a kid I was convinced I COULD fly and in launching myself off the dining room table broke a bowl my grandmother had had since her wedding day. On grass I'm hilarious for 15 minutes then I get paranoid and think the carpet is plotting against me.)

by **kinsei** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:35 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Oh, I had one friend on mescaline who walked out of a third story window thinking he could fly.<hr></blockquote> This is an often-cited urban legend about psychedelics. Hence I'm inclined to believe that you are lying. However, on the off chance that you are telling the truth, then your friend took too much, because he didn't know what he was doing. Note that "too much" does not mean "more than zero". I tire of hearing anti-drug rants from people who openly profess to have no personal familiarity with the drugs they are ranting against. Of all the places, aren't the people on this board supposed to be smart enough to recognize and not participate in ignorant hypocrisy? How can you so harshly judge something which you have no direct familiarity with and think that's acceptable?

by **professorpan** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:07 am

I'm with you, kinsei. banned doesn't seem to understand that we *agree* that she's entitled to her distaste or lack of interest in consciousness changing substances. Don't like them? Don't do them. Think they are a waste of time? Fine. But why keep insisting that your narrow opinion is the only valid one? Others find consciousness altering substances valuable, interesting, and worthy of discussion. Let us discuss them, and please don't tell us we're deluded druggies who just want to get high.

by **robertdreed** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:57 am

I find your choice of e-tags ironic. You don't know what "banned" feels like. Even more ironic, I seem to recall you making statements indicating that you aren't all that "substance-free" yourself. Of course, you have a doctor's prescription for your psychotropics. Nobel Prize winners who credit psychedelic drugs for insight? Kary Mullis, inventor of the PCR test- <a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=mullis+psychedelic&btnG=Google+Search">www.google.com/search?hl=...gle+Search</a> Carl Sagan, renowned cannabis habitue- <a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=%22carl+sagan%22+cannabis+&btnG=Search">www.google.com/search?hl=...tnG=Search</a> More examples <a href="http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/2783.html">www.cannabisculture.com/a.../2783.html</a> Let's not even get into writers, playwrights, screenwiters, film directors, musicians, actors, dancers, athletes, chefs, poets...the list is too long. The best argument against the "drugs can't do anything but impair you" line that I've ever read is Alan Watts' Joyous Cosmology. I've been known to have my quarrels with Watts views, but he's at his best- which can be remarkably eloquent- in the pro-psychedelic polemic prologue to The Joyous Cosmology. <a href="http://www.publicappeal.org/library/unicorn/watts/joyous_cosmology_prolog.htm">www.publicappeal.org/libr...prolog.htm</a> Read it in full, here <a href="http://www.publicappeal.org/library/unicorn/watts/joyous_cosmology.htm">www.publicappeal.org/libr...mology.htm</a> That said, I'm skeptical of all the "inter-dimensional" mumbo-jumbo being flung around these days in "New Age", "shamanic", and other circles. And I don't think that drug ingestion = enlightenment, even when what's ingested is a natural psychedelic like peyote or ayahauasa. I know better.

by **banned** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 4:25 am

"But why keep insisting that your narrow opinion is the only valid one?" Look, peabrain, can you read English? I have said OVER AND OVER AGAIN that EVERYONE is entitled to DO drugs and to have their own opinion. What pisses you and your druggie pals off is that I reserve the right to hold MY opinion, both that I do not personally want to do drugs and that I don't have much respect for those who try to elevate their substance addiction into some kind of badge of intellectual superiority. YOU are the one who's the fascist trying to impose YOUR views on me. I'm saying, do it, go to hell in your very own custom made handbasket--I don't care. However, my not caring also extends to my not caring if someone ODs, dies, goes mad from their drug of choice: I am completely opposed to the use of any taxpayer money to fund any program that has to do with drugs. If taking drugs is as you folks say a free choice made to expand your horizons, I ain't paying for methadone clinics, drug education and the rest of the parade of social services that are required to deal with the social cost of your hobby. In point of fact I do not take prescription psychotropic drugs at the moment and while I have in the past and consider them for some people at certain times to be necessary in order to maintain function, if not life itself, I believe they should be taken as a last resort when non-drug methods have failed. Roberto, why do you pile on the citations? Do you think after holding the same view of drugs from age 19 when my friend strolled out the window until age 53, I'm going to click on one of your links and change my mind? I heard every single argument you people have made from my friend to justify his explorations into psychedelics. I also watched him deteriorate from a smart, funny, creative guy to someone whose letters appeared to have been written by a slow kindergartener. He was certainly entitled to make his own choices, and he did. He listened to Masters & Houston instead of listening to me. Unfortunately, they didn't end up paying to put him back together--his parents did. And his family and friends suffered the emotional loss. I guess I should be so lucky you'd go out a window, professorpan, and take your self righteousness, your lack of reading comprehension, and your disrespectful coercive attitude toward others' right to their opinions with you.

by **banned** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 4:30 am

" I find your choice of e-tags ironic. You don't know what "banned" feels like." Sorry, that one went over my drug-free head. Maybe if I was smoking whatever you and da panster are I'd have gotten it. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/roll.gif ALT=":rollin">

by **banned** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 4:38 am

You're worse than disrespectful. It's no urban legend and no lie. I would be happy to tell you the details, leaving out only my friend's name. We went to Europe together after high school graduation in 1969, then he went to at Antioch College starting in 1969 and Antioch had, and maybe has, a program where you do one semester of classes and one of work. He was living in Boston and working as a groundskeeper at a cemetery. He started reading "Varieties of Psychedelic Experience" by Masters & Houston and "Doors of Perception" by Huxley. Several times a week I got long letters trying to talk me into trying mescaline which he began to do regularly. His letters deteriorated into incomprehensibility and the last one he sent before the jump was full of bizarre black cut outs of what looked like the demons in the last section of "Fantasia." One night in 1971 he was talking to his roommates in their third floor apartment and told them he could fly. He opened the casement windows and stepped out. Had one of his roommates not moved fast and grabbed him he'd have fallen to his death. His parents flew to Boston and he was hospitalized for almost a year, he'd had a complete psychotic break. When he got out he never finished college; he worked as a sound technician for a rock band. In the mid-1970s he stopped writing to his friends from high school. When I went to my 30 year high school reunion, his best friend had not heard from him in years and still lamented what happened to him. So shove your 'urban legends' up your ass. My friend lost his mind and we lost a friend. Some 'spiritual enlightenment.' Go fuck yourself, OK?

by **kinsei** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 5:21 am

Banned, First of all, I stand corrected. I still maintain that the "thinking you can fly" situation is still often quoted in the context of urban legend, but in your case you had a friend who fell prey to a similar situation. For that, I am sorry for your loss. However, in accordance with your "not giving a shit" policy regarding people who use drugs, I will apply this same policy to your friend, in the sense that as much as I empathize with your situation of losing a friend and his situation of losing control, the fact remains that he went through went through what he went through, and vicariously you went through what you went through, because, quite simply, your friend did not know what he was doing. It's really as simple as that. Your friend chose not only to take mescaline, but to take the amount that he did at the frequency he did, having a given end result. That does not in any way mean that the drug itself forces this kind of usage of it, nor does it mean that everyone who uses a drug will experience the same result as your friend. You are extrapolating your admittedly painful experience and applying it to millions of people the world over. For every one person who loses themselves to a given drug, there are plenty of people who don't. The difference between them boils down to individual, personal choices that are made. Just because your friend lost himself to a drug doesn't mean you can get him back by taking out your anger on everyone else who uses them. All that anger is going to do is consume you. You can tell me "go fuck yourself" all you want, but I won't resort to that level of anger in return. All that would do is raise my blood pressure and make me feel awful for hours, and it would do nothing for you either since the cycle wouldn't stop there. Vengeful anger accomplishes nothing. Of course, there was a time when I used to be extremely angry and judgemental all the time. My blood pressure was through the roof, I had panic attacks all the time, and I was inches away from breaking down. Then one evening I realized the cause, and was finally able to heal the source of those old wounds, allowing me to let the stress and anger go. You know what helped me do this? Mushrooms.

by **Trifecta** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 5:32 am

For me any drug that is a manufactured chemical is just as bad as ingesting the pharmamafia prescription. That said, natural psychedelics in the right set and setting (your friend banned was not in the right set and setting or had pushed the boundaries too far or had not bannished his own demons) can lead to a transpersonal experience, which enables them to see the bigger picture, traverse the non consensus reality dimensions. Whether you are for or against them, it is not a simple matter of brain chemistry, the route of the soul resides in the pineal gland, the stimulation of the MO inhibitors allow to see beyond the veils of decption and the inadequacy of the eyes and the minds interpretation of the fake world. Yes, in some cases you can actually believe you can fly, and whom is to say you cannot, this in most cases is a form of astral projection, and is the reason that set and setting is SO important, especially being in and around people who are straight, guiding the individual, it is also a means to trancend permanent emotional damage caused by lives abuses. Whatever they be. It is a rite of passage, which is sorely missing within the global amensia currently called life. LSD is a NOT natural psychedelic, nee entheogen. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=osculuminfame@rigorousintuition>Osculum Infame</A> at: 12/14/05 2:32 am

by **monster** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:14 am

, especially LSD. Reality gets more real. It's like you can experience years' worth of observations and feelings in a few minutes. It's hard to describe. It's like concentrated reality. But you're never quite the same after that because you realize that normal life is (by necessity) a lot of auto-pilot, and that there, under the surface, is a level of reality where the texture and color of one square inch of your carpet is the most fascinating thing in the universe.

by **banned** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:16 am

...sauteed in organic butter and organic garlic and shallots, then add organic sour cream and pour over organic brown rice. Mmmmmm.... "You are extrapolating your admittedly painful experience and applying it to millions of people the world over." No, I'm not. What I'm saying is that in my opinion, it is not worth it FOR ME PERSONALLY to risk going out a window for the cheap insights that I have read in all the books about psychedelics. I can get exactly the same transcendent experience from watching a hawk circling the sun, or my cat lick his arse. Perhaps I was born with a mystical bent, certainly my attraction to Zen and to Advaita Vedanta would indicate that. I read Alan Watts in my late teens and didn't see anything in what he wrote that required me to take drugs either to understand it or to agree with it. I have an amazing brain and aside from its propensity for depression (which has more to do with my family than anything else) I don't care to risk the multitude of things it does exceedingly well in order to find out stuff I already know and can access without risking psychosis or contact at high speed with a sidewalk. If someone ELSE wants to take that risk--since given the number of drug tragedies/fatalities it's obviously not easy to tell when you are taking the RIGHT amount in the RIGHT situation--I have no problem with that. Yes, my friend made his own choices. On the other hand, in my view, he was credulous in the extreme and bought into the arguments in the books he was reading. Now, I love to read books about mountain climbing, but I have never finished one and said "Dang, that's it, I'm goin' to climb Aconcagua!" I know my own limitations, chief of which is I HATE TO BE COLD. It's pretty hard to summit the highest peaks on every continent without being cold. When I saw "Touching The Void" it wasn't Joe Simpson's hideously busted leg that made me cringe, it was the idea that he fell in a crevasse of SNOW. To continue the analogy, when I read about people who come to grief on a mountain (say, "Into Thin Air") I figure they made their own choices, and for some dying doing what you want on Everest (or even 'flying' out of a third story window) beats living to be old and repetitive and incontinent. I would certainly not approve of my tax dollars being used to support "rehab" programs for injured mountaineers, let alone fund tacky posters at REI with a photo of Gasherbrum surrounded by a red circle with a diagonal line and the text "Just Say No" or "Friends Don't Let Friends Summit K2." If you think my unwillingness to risk my sanity, productivity or life to drugs makes me a wuss, I don't have a problem with that. I'll always have my sour cream mushrooms. Mmmmmm.....

Hancock on drugs, entities, DNA

re: webs & weavers

re: spiral nets

Here's what I don't understand...

Re: Here's what I don't understand...

Ezackly.

Uhh...

Re: Uhh...

banned...

You guys crack me up.

rdr, what does this mean?

Oh, and kinsei?

Re: Oh, and kinsei?

all drugs are dangerous

psychedelics are great

I love mushrooms...

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