Red Haired Giants

by **johnny nemo** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:08 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>You sound like you're at least somewhat familiar with the accounts of red-haired giants found in Ohio and Pennsylvania. If you're not, I can look up and post cites. From memory, these were a number of skeletons and mummies independently reported in the 18th and 19th century, most of them between 6 and 8 feet tall. Peculiarly, many of these were reported to have double rows of teeth. The Delaware, who claim to have wiped them out in a war several hundred years earlier, called them Allegaw, and reported them as red-haired. The place-name Allegheny means 'Land of the Allegaw'. None of the remains survive, unfortunately, and I think the attitude of most modern anthropologists is that the giants were a biblically-inspired hoax.<hr></blockquote> Very familiar, as I used to live in PA and have relatives in Ohio. In fact I wanted to dazzle everyone with that lil factoid about the Allegaw, but you beat me to it. I'm not angry, but am impressed. Here's a site with some really good info. <a href="http://www.geocities.com/saqatchr/page46.html">www.geocities.com/saqatchr/page46.html</a> <img src="http://www.geocities.com/saqatchr/bigskel.gif"/> Posted this in the other thread, but it bears repeating. <a href="http://www.lostartsmedia.com/mysteryofamerica.html">www.lostartsmedia.com/mysteryofamerica.html</a> According to Reid, Indians had told him of petrified giants they had found lying in the open wilderness area to the south of Lovelock Cave. In fact, the local Piute Indians spoke of a race of red-headed giants and the bloody conflict that their forefathers had pursued against them. So ferocious was the Piute abomination toward these Si-Te-Cahs, or "lanky redheads," that a collective crusade to wipe them out was organized by local tribes that were normally at odds with one another. A book published in 1882, Life Among the Paiutes, written by Sarah Winnemucca details the strange legends of red-haired giants who had come to the area by boat, apparently when the area was an inland sea. Twentynine years later the cache of oversized skeletons and artifacts in Lovelock Cave were discovered. As is usually the case, these "legends" were scoffed at by the "authorities" until hard evidence began to show up to support it, and even then nothing was properly investigated. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>I'm interested in anything relating to Nephilim discussions. Don't think I recall the double-rowed, red-haired Giants, though.<hr></blockquote> <a href="http://www.red-ice.net/specialreports/2005/12dec/merovingianmythos.html">www.red-ice.net/specialreports/2005/12dec/merovingianmythos.html</a> The Nephilim were banished to the center of the earth for disobeying God by mating with the daughters of men and teaching them the “forbidden” arts. In this publication the Nephilim have been identified as the Fathers of the Merovingians. As is well known to anyone reading this publication, the Merovingians were notorious for their red hair and it was believed that this is where they received all of their “powers.” And as legend has it, the Merovingian line spawned a number of kings, such as Charles the King. <a href="http://www.the-orb.net/textbooks/westciv/charlemagne.html">www.the-orb.net/textbooks/westciv/charlemagne.html</a> Charles the King We know a good deal about Charles the Great because we have two biographies of him written by men who were close to him. The more important of these is by Einhard. Einhard describes Charles as being moderately tall (around six feet tall) and powerfully built with a thick neck and deep chest. He had the red hair and blue eyes of his tribe and was possessed of both strength and stamina. Almost forgot....from that first site I posted 1911 California, Lovelock Cave: An 8-foot tall, red-haired mummy discovered. This mummy eventually went to a fraternal lodge where it was used for "initiation purposes. I have been trying to find out what"fraternal lodge" (Masons, Elk, Odd Fellows. Loyal Order Of Water Buffalo?) got these bones for some time. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=johnnynemo>johnny nemo</A> at: 9/26/06 1:12 pm

by **chiggerbit** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:13 pm

Skull and Bones?

by **Et in Arcadia ego** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:37 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>In this publication the Nephilim have been identified as the Fathers of the Merovingians. As is well known to anyone reading this publication, the Merovingians were notorious for their red hair and it was believed that this is where they received all of their “powers.”/quote] Can't believe that one slipped my mind; it's been awhile since I discussed/read this stuff. Yeah, the Merovingians claimed descent from two fathers, one a sea monster. More cross-species miscegenation..As well as a good link between the two time periods. Then on the side you have other cultural oddities like Wendigo and Grendel(wikipedia entries follow): "In the mythology of the Algonquian-speaking tribes of Native Americans, the Wendigo is a malevolent supernatural creature. It is usually described as a giant with a heart of ice; sometimes it is thought to be entirely made of ice. Its body is skeletal and deformed, with missing lips and toes." "The Windigo male is two time bigger than the windigo female, but the female is the more dangerous." "The nature of Grendel's identity is something of a conundrum due in large part to a line where he is described as descended from the biblical Cain, the first murderer. For some scholars, this justifies a monstrous appearance. For others, it positions Grendel as a marginal (rather than monstrous) figure which bears the Curse and mark of Cain. However, the epic also defines Grendel as a jotun (or giant), i.e. a troll. Within the poem, he is described by many different terms including ent, ettin, and "scather" ("one who scathes"<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"> . The terms ent, eoten or ettin, meaning "giant", were synonymous with "troll" in Norse mythology (see e.g. Nafnaþulur), and clearly connect Grendel with the Jotuns/trolls of Scandinavia." And then you have the Jotun: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jotun">en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jotun</a> And this being, a possible candidate for Father of the Merovingians? <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iku-Turso">en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iku-Turso</a> There's many common elements to all thes<hr></blockquote> ____________________ Some are born to sweet delight, some are born to endless night.

by **Et in Arcadia ego** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 4:09 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>1870 Ohio: In Brush Creek Township a large mound contained skeltal remains of several humans up to nine feet tall. A large stone tablet with unknown insriptions similiar to Greek writing was also found. 1872 Ohio, Seneca Township: When the "Bates" mound was opened the remains of three skeletons, whose size would indicate they measured in life, at least, eight feet in height, were found. A remarkable feature of these remains was they had double teeth in front as well as in back of mouth and in both upper and lower jaws.<hr></blockquote> Tons of discoveries at that link. Reading this stuff drives me nuts; it's pretty clear that whatever it all means, it's been covered up very thoroughly for a LONG TIME now.. ____________________ Some are born to sweet delight, some are born to endless night.

by **Sepka** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 4:36 pm

et said: <blockquote>Quote:<hr>it's pretty clear that whatever it all means, it's been covered up very thoroughly for a LONG TIME now..<hr></blockquote> That's pretty much the case. If you take the trouble to find and read works of North and Central American anthropology from before about 1920 or so, a very different picture of prehistoric America emerges. I've heard the change attributed before to an academic pissing match that was taking place at the time among the senior staff of the Smithsonian, although I don't recall the details. At any rate, whether or not their version of history is correct, the winning faction certainly managed to suppress dissenting views. My own interest in this is fairly superficial, and Johnny Nemo probably has better links if you're seriously interested.. I was first introduced to the idea of giant indians as a child reading a Frank Edwards compilation. The detail about rhe double teeth stuck with me. My chief 'eccentric' interest as an adult is UFOs and the Fair People. As one might well imagine, chasing stories of the Fairies in North America often leads one across stories of giant men. <a href="http://www.stevequayle.com/Giants/index2.html">www.stevequayle.com/Giants/index2.html</a> is a nice starting place if giants interest you. I find a lot of his conclusions questionable at best, but he does have the commendable habit of citing his sources, which seems a dying practice these days. if I find anything else nice I'll post it. Enjoy! <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"> -Sepka the Space Weasel

by **4911** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:33 pm

Hey Arcadia, we forgot that maybe those huge giants just had small dicks :] Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=4911>4911</A> at: 9/26/06 4:35 pm

by **resonantmonkey** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:34 pm

I love reading and discussing the "giants". I'm an old Sitchinite at heart, and it was his writing that first got me interested in all sorts of stuff... Anyways, there was a site somewhere back when, that had an account of a cave explorer. He went in and found giant statues, and all sorts of scary stuff. Apparently, the Smithsonian had the entrances to the caves sealed up. As a younger man, friends and I tried to find caves on the Dineh reservation. We found an entrance, but were not prepared or trained to get to it. It was on the Little Colorado, and I am pretty sure that is where that old cave explorer was. I will look for that link, at least it was a good read. On another note, I also remember my grandpa telling me he was witness to the dig up of "Mangas Largas". Apparently, an anomolously tall Apache (sic.). I could have the tribe wrong, though. My grandpa tells it that the skeletons thigh bones were as long as a regular man's entire leg. They were doing some excavating in SE AZ. They quickly reburied what they found, and did not tell anyone for fear of desecrating a burial site. They decided not to tell anyone, and it was at least twenty or so years until Grandpa told anyone, then he would tell the story anytime talk of indigenous people came up. Edited for site: <a href="http://www.mayanmajix.com/art279.html">www.mayanmajix.com/art279.html</a> Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=resonantmonkey>resonantmonkey</A> at: 9/26/06 5:57 pm

by **alice** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:02 pm

<a href="http://users.on.net/~mkfenn/page5.htm">users.on.net/~mkfenn/page5.htm</a> if you scroll down this page to "more complex origins" it has a little more info .

by **alice** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:06 pm

<a href="http://biblefacts.org/myth/giant2.html">biblefacts.org/myth/giant2.html</a> more giants

by **Et in Arcadia ego** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:01 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>A large Indian mound near the town of Gasterville, Pa., has recently been opened and examined by a committee of scientists sent out from the Smithsonian Institute. At some depth from the surface a kind of vault was found in which was discovered the skeleton of a giant measuring seven feet two inches. His hair was coarse and jet black, and hung to the waist, the brow being ornamented with a copper crown. The skeleton was remarkably well preserved. Near it were also found the bodies of several children of various sizes, the remains being covered with beads made of bone of some kind. Upon removing these, the bodies were seen to be enclosed in a net-work of straw or reeds, and beneath this was a covering of the skin of some animal. On the stones which covered the vault were carved inscriptions, and these when deciphered, will doubtless lift the veil that now shrouds the history of the race of people that one time inhabited this part of the American continent. The relics have been carefully packed and forwarded to the Smithsonian Institute, and they are said to be the most interesting collection ever found in the United States. The explorers are now at work on another mound in Barton county, Pa.<hr></blockquote> Where they have doubtless disappeared forever.. ____________________ Some are born to sweet delight, some are born to endless night.

by **Et in Arcadia ego** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:11 pm

It's ironic that the(current) Native Americans could be said to have interfered just as much with identifying pre-existing, non-indian races as anyone else: <a href="http://www.stormfront.org/whitehistory/hwr6b.htm">www.stormfront.org/whiteh.../hwr6b.htm</a> ____________________ Some are born to sweet delight, some are born to endless night.

by **jingofever** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:32 pm

Stormfront = "White Nationalism". Their information may be perfectly valid, but I suspect they would be more than happy to misrepresent or invent data to support their 'Whites are the superior race' theory of world history. Excuse me, I should read posts before commenting on them. I saw the Stormfront link and it set off an alarm in my head. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=jingofever>jingofever</A> at: 9/26/06 7:36 pm

by **Et in Arcadia ego** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:09 pm

mhmm. In this case, while I don't know if it would affect any existing arrangements between the Native Indian population and the USA Government, regardless, it's important to acknowledge that both sides have had hands in data repression. Now..Apply this kinda stuff(races much older than dogmatically accepted, and with significant genetic divergences) to say, the Skin-Walker Ranch and things start getting interesting.. ____________________ Some are born to sweet delight, some are born to endless night.

by **Seventhsonjr** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:40 pm

Just a quick note: My grandfather was an anthropologist and historian and among his library collection of ancient books and texts I found an ancient book (probably 16th or 17th century - but no later than 1700) which describes a tribe of "white Indians" in the area of Panama. I can't recall much more other than when I saw it it made me wonder whether these were indigenous or not or genetically different due to inbreeding or environment and therefore not European. One of these days I will look for it and see if there is more. Not a far walk or canoe ride, really, from there to more northern climes in any direction, which might explain the Mandan reports. After all, Lewis and Clark made it from DC all the way to the Northern Pacific coast in a coupla years (or something like that). Easy to see that many differnete explanations and migrations would explain a lot of this - and maybe even the red hair. Any reports of red hair and giants in central and Latin America?

by **chiggerbit** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:05 am

Dang, love those old books, seventh. Protect it. So many have been "washed" from the records, no longer available. One of my fav oldies on my shelves is one by PT Barnum, and how they captured their first gorilla babies. Yuk! Beautiful pen-and-ink prints, but the story is so sad by today's standards. Take very good care of that book. It may be the only one left. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=chiggerbit@rigorousintuition>chiggerbit</A> at: 9/26/06 10:08 pm

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