How long will it take to recover from Bushco?

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How long will it take to recover from Bushco?

Postby chiggerbit » Wed May 31, 2006 10:32 pm

Let's assume an anti-winger wins the 08 prez election. How long do any of you figure it will take the country to recover? Just thinking of the mess in the Middle East and all its bad karma all over the world; K Street domination, including Halliburton's power, as well as Enron's even today; the NoChildLeftWithABehind impact; the separation of church and state issues such as South Dakota's anti-abortion law, the "faith-based" social programs ("faith" at the hog trough, including the Moonie abstinence programs); tax increases to pay for the last few years of tax breaks for the wealthy; the national debt; ecology, OMG; jobs (including those out-sourced and never to be returned and the ones filled by hungry immigrants); the Medicare-for-the pharmaceuticals (Pharmicare?), as well as health care and insurance costs; a winger Supreme Court; privatization; trashing of Constitutional rights; the polarization of the country into hate groups; gas prices; etc., etc. How much did I leave out? My guess is that it will still be impacting the country for the next 50 years, maybe much more. <br><br>And that's only if an anti-winger wins. We're not even talking yet about a depression or runaway inflation. Five years ago, the pundits were talking about how this had become a one-party country, that the Democratic party was dead. Can this be "fixed" with just one anti-winger prez? With a brief change in Congress? Just thinking how we are still feeling the impact of the Civil War in today's politics. Heck, is Iraq really about our ditching Vietnam, considering how much Americans hate to be losers? Are our politics still being manipulated by bitterness about Watergate? Did Iran/contra corruption even dent the American psyche? Should the American voters be upset about corruption of Congress, when it was the American voters who voted these people in? When will this end? <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=chiggerbit@rigorousintuition>chiggerbit</A> at: 5/31/06 8:36 pm<br></i>
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Re: How long will it take to recover from Bushco?

Postby professorpan » Wed May 31, 2006 10:42 pm

Quick answer: for as long as I live. <p></p><i></i>
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9/11 has to be faced. It won't. NO recovery from Bushco.

Postby yesferatu » Wed May 31, 2006 10:53 pm

And were it to recieve full sunlight....THAT also will signal the end. <br>I sometimes wonder if something will be revealed about 9/11 in 2012 which will trigger something huge in the "normal" consciousness of the average sleepwalker. I do not believe in a physical "end" in 2012. But really, something has to snap very soon. <br><br>Or maybe it's not true that "darkness never lasts". Maybe it actually can last and last and just...last.<br><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: How long will it take to recover from Bushco?

Postby chiggerbit » Wed May 31, 2006 11:27 pm

<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Quick answer: for as long as I live.</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> <br><br>Ummm, professor, are you really, really old? Like about 100? That would be encouraging for me. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: How long will it take to recover from Bushco?

Postby greencrow0 » Wed May 31, 2006 11:44 pm

It depends upon China, Russia and India.<br><br>If all three agree to speak with one voice and demand war crimes trials...<br><br>It could be all over very soon.<br><br>OTOH, if they don't and the perps continue they way they're going, what with HAARP and all...it could be the end of the planet as we know it....possibly within 10 years.<br><br>GC <p></p><i></i>
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Re: How long will it take to recover from Bushco?

Postby chiggerbit » Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:55 am

<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>It depends upon China, Russia and India</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br><br>Certainly true, gc: Same as parental dynamics: Choose your battles, do not engage in a showdown unless you KNOW you can win. If you call, and lose, you probably have lost all future showdowns. Iraq, a weak country after more than a decade of sanctions, has "won", so far, and that has been a challenge to other, stronger Middle Eastern countires. The US position is morally bankrupt, which makes it vulnerable on the world stage. Stay tuned. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: How long will it take to recover from Bushco?

Postby HMKGrey » Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:35 am

I feel like I'm watching this awful movie where the bad guys seem to have everything going in their favor and we haven't really been introduced to our hero yet, but my mind is already spinning ahead following the arc of these things and I've just realized that my palms are sweaty because I already loathe the bad guys but I just can't see how a hero is going to appear, evolve as a believable character and save the day before the 90 minutes is up. <br><br>But somehow, for some reason... I believe he or she will.<br><br>We didn't get this far from the primordial soup without the conscious universe being able to intervene from time to time on the side of the good guys. Think Hitler. Eastern front. Snow. <br><br>Yeah, it's all with my fingernails... but it's all I got. <p></p><i></i>
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how will it happen?

Postby blanc » Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:54 am

by gradual change, scrapping every step of the way? bloodless revolution or the other kind? <p></p><i></i>
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Re: how will it happen?

Postby AlicetheCurious » Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:42 am

The thing about evil, is that if you fight evil using its own weapons, when you lose, you lose, and when you win, you lose.<br><br>Like the bloody, violent anti-colonial uprisings that simply exchanged foreign oppressors for domestic ones.<br><br>The means do not justify the end, the means ARE the end. Lies are fought with truth, cowardice is fought with courage, darkness is fought with light, and hatred is fought with love.<br><br>The fight is a spiritual one, as much as it is about saving human lives. In a way, it's easier to allow the rage to build, until our fury drowns our fear and we surrender to violence, than to continue to behave with decency and integrity, to courageously state the truth and refuse to back down in the face of ridicule and/or intimidation, day after day.<br><br>That requires a lot more strength, but that's why we need each other -- isolation makes us more vulnerable. But violence only feeds hatred and fear, making the beast even stronger.<br><br>There's a myth about a many-headed dragon, if one of its heads was cut off, two would grow in its place. Many brave knights perished, because they concentrated on fighting the heads. Until one brave boy came along, and shot an arrow through its heart, killing it.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: how will it happen?

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:47 am

Well put. Thank you. I needed to read that tonight. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: how will it happen?

Postby Gouda » Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:20 am

Yes, the essential question is not "how long will it take?" but "how will it happen?" And I must add, how do we want it to look after we make it happen? <br><br>I agree with Alice, and I have often quoted the example of the Zapatistas/EZLN re: means vs. ends on this board (maybe too often for some, as I realize that a hard-to-pin-down indigenous movement outside the US may not be very interesting, and it is not exactly productive to randomly quote from a movement wherein many do not know the background, history, goals, approach etc., or see a direct relevance to the situation in the USA.) Nevertheless, <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>apropos</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> the words of Alice, here I go again. <br><br>Subcommandante Marcos has spoken eloquently about the approach of the Zapatistas in their struggle to change the way politics and society are done, made & organized in Mexico - and I think many would be surprised to learn they are not some kind of Leninist "vanguard" movement. They are radical (radical times, radical solutions), horizontal, inclusive, and they listen rather than tell. It has not been easy, but they are patient, dedicated, and ready to give their lives. <br><br>Marcos on means and ends: <br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>You cannot reconstruct the world or society, nor rebuild national states now in ruins, on the basis of a quarrel over who will impose their hegemony on society...We do not believe that the end justifies the means. <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Ultimately, we believe that the means are the end. We define our goal by the way we choose the means of struggling for it.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.newleftreview.org/NLR24304.shtml">www.newleftreview.org/NLR24304.shtml</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>It is not our arms which make us radical; it is the new political practice which we propose and in which we are immersed with thousands of men and women in Mexico and the world: the construction of a political practice which does not seek the taking of power but the organization of society. Intellectuals and political leadership, of all sizes, of the ultraright, of the right, the center, of the left and the ultraleft, national and international criticize our proposal. We are so radical that we do not fit in the parameters of "modern political science". We are not bragging … we are pointing out the facts. Is there anything more radical than to propose to change the world? You know this because you share this dream with us, and because, though the truth be repeated, we dream it together." <hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://flag.blackened.net/revolt/mexico/comment/andrew_diff_feb01.html">flag.blackened.net/revolt...feb01.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: How long will it take to recover from Bushco?

Postby friend catcher » Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:34 am

I see Bush as a symptom of a disease not the disease itself, and it's by no means isolated in North America. That he has caused huge amounts of damage both intentionally and not, can't be doubted, but the rot set in many administrations before his.<br>Some things can be sorted judiciously such as effective safeguards on voting and environmental laws that hold back the worst excesses of industry, but with a cold eye I would say the damage is done and repairs are impossible. Will the demand for energy and resources significantly decrease in the near future? It seems unlikely. Can America live comfortably within its own borders? It never has. I think this body politic is riddled with cancer and the cure will not be found. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: how will it happen?

Postby professorpan » Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:11 am

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>The means do not justify the end, the means ARE the end. Lies are fought with truth, cowardice is fought with courage, darkness is fought with light, and hatred is fought with love.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Right on, sister! <p></p><i></i>
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re buscho impact

Postby Sarutama » Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:26 am

I don't think an "anti-winger" is going to make a lick of difference. If we miraculously replaced the entire executive, legislative, and judicial branches with democrats right now, nothing would change. It would be like being raped and having the rapist change masks.<br><br>Bill Hicks once described the two party system in this country like this:<br><br>"I think the puppet on the right agrees with my views."<br><br>"Well I think the puppet on the left is more to my liking."<br><br>"Hey, why is there one guy working both puppets?"<br><br>The system is terminally corrupt. Nothing short of complete revolution is going to change that. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: It's gone that way before

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:39 am

<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>It is wrong to expect a reward for your struggles. The reward is the act of struggle itself, not what you win. Even though you can't expect to defeat the absurdity of the world, you must make that attempt. That's morality, that's religion. That's art. That's life.</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>--Phil Ochs<br><br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://www.cs.pdx.edu/~trent/ochs/images/phil14.gif" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--><br><br><!--EZCODE FONT START--><span style="color:teal;font-family:comic sans ms;font-size:x-small;"><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>There's a man walking round the island with a snake cane<br>He picked it up in Thailand from a hurricane<br>And you know he's not gonna go there<br>He's been one time too long<br>Now all the gods are gone (Though the game is gone)<br>The younger boys are drowning in a shallow sea<br>The night belongs to snipers in palm trees<br>And their sabres flashed like lightning<br>In the charge of the last brigade<br>They must have been afraid<br>Soldiers have their sorrow<br>The wretched have their rage<br>Pray for the aged it's the dawn of another age<br>Of another age<br>Of another age<br>Of another age<br>The blood running down the blackboard on a blank(?) screen (in a thin stream?)<br>The convicts shake their cages of a bad dream<br>And they'll coach you in the classroom that it cannot happen here<br>But it has happened here<br>I remember nothing that I memorized (The cockroach cops are crawling on a battle ground)<br>I got my education from a black eye (The shields are in the shadows, it's a college town)<br>And they'll teach you law and order<br>If you dare to raise your hand<br>Spare the glove and spoil the man<br>Soldiers have their sorrow<br>The wretched have their rage<br>Pray for the aged<br>It's the dawn of another age<br>Of another age<br>Of another age<br><br>Thomas Paine and Jesse James are old friends<br>And Robin Hood is riding on the road again<br>We were born in a revolution and we died in a wasted war<br>It's gone that way before<br>The dogs are chasing chicken bones across the lawn<br>If that was an election, I'm a Viet Cong<br>So I pledge allegiance against the flag<br>and the (fall,flaw,cloth?) for which it stands<br>I'll raise/raze it if I can (Pledge allegiance to the land)<br>Soldier have their sorrow<br>The wretched have their rage<br>Pray for the aged<br>It's the dawn of another age<br>Of another age<br>Of another age<br>Of another age<br>Of another age</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--></span><!--EZCODE FONT END--><br><br>--Phil Ochs 1968<br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>jah bless<br>SLaD</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=seemslikeadream@rigorousintuition>seemslikeadream</A> at: 6/1/06 9:40 am<br></i>
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