Are we all on The List because of being here?

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Re: Inspiration

Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:37 am

Inspired to what? Hurl ourselves into the Wermacht Shredder?<br><br>All steps here are tentative ones. I take Folley's downfall and the backdoor scheming of the RNP to bury the story(protect a common interest, imo).<br><br>The roof of that nasty little cave is falling in. Even Hastert's been implicated now.<br><br>Elections on the verge..You'd better expect total chaos or total landslide.<br><br>But what happens when the Dems seixe control of Congress again? What I see is a nearly instant feeding frenzy of power siezure as these starving leaders seek to compansate for being shoved aside and disregarded. They could even be worse than what we already have, because they would feel they have 'something to prove', and there's little to no excusing the Dem's Bad Behavior/Apathy these last 6 years.<br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Meet the New Boss, same as the Old Boss..</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>My pessimism is half-again as cautious as our benefactor here, Mr Wells. Do you smell real blood yet from them? Cause I surely don't, even now with the house of cards falling.. <p>____________________<br>Wehret den Anfängen</p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=etinarcadiaego@rigorousintuition>et in Arcadia ego</A>  <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://www.sickle666.com/images/Arcadia.jpg" BORDER=0> at: 9/30/06 11:39 pm<br></i>
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"Good Germans". Reichstag, Night of the Long Knive

Postby Seventhsonjr » Sun Oct 01, 2006 2:04 am

Wow,<br><br>I am impressed with the caliber of these responses from a few folks with whom I have not yet been acquainted.<br><br>See,<br><br>for me<br><br>this whole damn mess is about the Third Reich evolving into the Fourth Reich.<br><br>The Bushes have never ever ever given up on their quest for a WASP fascist Reich run by them and their heirs.<br><br>Konrad Heiden, the German antiNazi (he says he was the FIRST antiNazi as he protested against Hitler in 1922 when he first emerged publicly talking his insane necrophilic ramblings) wrote in his 1935 opus "The History of National Socialism" that Hitler cut a deal with the WASPs of Wall Street America and the Anglo-German royal bloodlines from whom the US WASPs descended to establish a 2000 year reich using brutality, fear, hatred, lies, propaganda and whatever means necessary to dominate every other "subhuman" race of peoples - from Jews to Africans to Indians to Spanish to Poles to you name it ----EVERYBODY who was not a Nordic-Anglo-American. <br><br>Heiden fucking DOCUMENTS this in 1935!!!<br><br>For this Heiden had his citizenship revoked, his passport seized, and he was placed under a German death warrant (summary execution permitted) which forced him underground. He came to the US via an international underground made up of some Americans, many Jews and socialists and union folks and church folks and communists where he wrote the epitome of the analysis of Hitler which could easily apply to the insane Bushes today: "Der Fuhrer" . I have a first edition. It is fucking mind boggling because it so closely mirros what is happeneing today.<br><br>It traces the rise of Hitler from a nasty little worm of a snitch to his maniacal ascension through terror, brutality, racism, antisemitism and hate to his deals with the butchers of wall street in the early 1930's. The deals with the Bushes and Walkers and Harrimans and Rockefellers and Dulleses and Morgans et al are the deals for the 2000 year Reich run by these same bastards who are in power today.<br><br>The have their Jewish collaborators in Kissinger and Wolfowitz and Sharon and now Lieberman et al who have sold out the Jewish people, Israelis and even the soul of Judaism by helping to murder the whole world for a few shekels and a lot of power. They have collaborators of all shades and stripes I must add. Fascism knows no national origin. It is all about brutality and dog eat dog and no compassion, no humanity, no God, no soul (see Skull and Bones logo - "Fuck everyone, there is no heaven or hell - no God or Spirit - only money to be made now, power to be earned through brutality and necrophilia, and kept through sheer evil will").<br><br>BUT<br><br>the FACT that Heiden documented this pact for the Anglo-Nordic-American WASP Fourth Reich designed to bring two thousand years of brutality in NINETEEN FUCKING THIRTY FIVE!!! AND here we are suffering under it today and seeing the parallels to 1935 Germany just makes me want to vomit and throw up my hands.<br><br>and the fear factor makes me want to hide and run away. But there is nowhere to run to as Heiden ran to the "Land of the Free" in 1941 with the help of Americans like Varian Fry, Peggy Guggenheim, Eleanor Roosevelt and Thomas Mann.<br><br>So I am just very glad to see that some relative newbies (I have been in hiding and so do not know all you new folks though jeff and I have been "friends" and I use the term cautiously as not to offend Jeff whose definition of friend might be more stringent than mine ---- but he is someone I call friend - online for years now since he was minstrelboy at DU) are seeing and knowing and acknowledging and continuing to show the parallels between Nazi Germany in 1932 et seq and the socalled United States today.<br><br><br>I urge you all to read Heiden's books if you truly want to understand the evil we are up against.<br><br>He did not hesitate to call Hitler and the nazis the antiChrist (he was a Christian, I imagine, and knew what the term meant from persoanl experience) and neither would he (nor should anyone else) fail to see the reincarnation of the antiChrist in the new fascist leaders of today.<br><br>Even the last Pope said he thought Bush might be the antiChrist and ---- well I will leave Mabus out of the equation for now (gogle mabus and see whatcha get, but inverting letters in socalle vissions is not that unreal when trying to predict the future. Hell - I hit the numbers once playing a dream (I NEVER play the numbers but aa native American friend and spirit guide suggested I should from a dream - and the number hit backup for 43 bucks - reverse numbers - ohh shit ---- just see google Mabus and thing about it - I get caught up in prophecy, especially when it seems so much like the apocalypse is becoming the reality. I am no bible freak or fundie, but I beleive in the Spirit and in the divine being able to do anything, including give people visions of truth and wisdom.<br><br>ANYWAY, glad to see the German Nazi analogies are here and strong and hope our "watchers" fucking pay attention. Fascism and Naziism are not American, they are treasonous. And those who are complict with traitors are themselves traitors.<br><br>Can they live with the knowledge that they helped destroy America???<br><br><br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=seventhsonjr>Seventhsonjr</A> at: 10/1/06 12:09 am<br></i>
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Re: "Good Germans". Reichstag, Night of the Long K

Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Sun Oct 01, 2006 2:17 am

Everything evetually comes to it's logical conclusion..Moussolini doubtless failed to have his gold-chased 8-Ball devine where he would end up clinning at the end of his reign..<br><br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://www.wandea.org.pl/IMAGES/mussolini_2.jpg" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--> <p>____________________<br>Wehret den Anfängen</p><i></i>
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Re: "Good Germans". Reichstag, Night of the Long K

Postby wintler » Sun Oct 01, 2006 3:51 am

"Inspired to what? Hurl ourselves into the Wermacht Shredder?" <br>My flowery language wasn't meant to encourage vain-glorious gestures, we've got to be much smarter than that. I'm a fan of remaking the world in place via relocalisation, disinvestment from broken systems, radical simplicity and devolved government, and there are ample ways (see <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.stopg20.org/node/54">www.stopg20.org/node/54</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> for a nice recent list) i can and i hope do work towards that vision now, and know that my doing so aids myself and all else that lives. I don't have to get there, its enough to know i'm on a right path. Lucky really, as i think our grandchildren will still be fighting/trying to heal the power-over sickness. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Are we all on The List because of being here?

Postby 4911 » Sun Oct 01, 2006 4:06 am

dont you guys think theyll go after people who are really a threat to them first? This blog wouldnt make enough of a blip on their radar to even qualify as a target.<br><br>Jon Stewart for example. Alex Jones. Dr.Stephen Jones. When people like that suddenly disappear, or if they start to kiss ass on tv - then its time to worry. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=4911>4911</A> at: 10/1/06 2:11 am<br></i>
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Re: Are we all on The List because of being here?

Postby greencrow0 » Sun Oct 01, 2006 4:39 am

I hope I'm on the list.<br><br>On April 17/18 2002 I became aware of a deliberate attempt on the part of the American Government to alienate it's allies.<br>Bush did not apologize for the murder of 4 Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan killed by an CIA F-16 Pilot who was out of bounds, flying in a restricted air zone.<br><br>Since that night...I do not trust them...I know they're killers and thugs and have absolutely NO respect for the rule of law.<br><br>So if they have a list, it would be a privilege to be on it.<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4cNFMEl4DM">www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4cNFMEl4DM</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>gc <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=greencrow0>greencrow0</A> at: 10/1/06 2:42 am<br></i>
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Re: Are we all on The List because of being here?

Postby AlicetheCurious » Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:29 am

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Published on Saturday, June 24, 2006 by the Los Angeles Times<br> <br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>"Big Brother" Bush and Connecting the Data Dots<br><br>The Total Information Awareness program was killed in 2003, but its spawn present bigger threats to privacy.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> <br>by Jonathan Turley <br> <br>The Disclosure this week of a secret databank operation tracking international financial transactions has caused renewed concerns about civil liberties in the United States. But this program is just the latest in a series of secret surveillance programs, databanks and domestic operations justified as part of the war on terror.<br><br>Disclosed individually over the course of the last year, they have become almost routine. Yet, when considered collectively, they present a far more troubling picture, and one that should be vaguely familiar.<br><br>Civil liberty-minded citizens may recall the president's plan to create the Total Information Awareness program, a massive databank with the ability to follow citizens in real time by their check-card purchases, bank transactions, medical bills and other electronic means. The Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, or DARPA, was assigned this task, but after its work was made public, Congress put a stop to it in September 2003 as a danger to privacy and civil liberties.<br><br>However, when Congress disbanded the Total Information Awareness program, it did not prohibit further research on such databanks, or even the use of individual databanks.<br><br>And, according to a recent study by the National Journal, the Bush administration used that loophole to break the program into smaller parts, transferring some parts to the National Security Agency, classifying the work and renaming parts of it as the Research Development and Experimental Collaboration program.<br><br>It was long suspected that Total Information Awareness survived, and the disclosure this week of another massive databank operation has only reinforced that fear. The spawn of DARPA seem to be turning up in secret programs spread throughout agencies.<br><br>The administration learned that it could not create a network of databanks in one comprehensive system, but it could achieve the same results by creating smaller systems that could be easily daisy-chained at a later date into the same kind of massive computer bank that Congress thought it had shut down. It is DARPA, albeit with assembly required for the ultimate user.<br><br>Consider some of the recent disclosures:<br><br>• A domestic surveillance program operated without warrants involving thousands of calls that are isolated by computers at the NSA.<br>• A massive databank that contains information on hundreds of millions of telephone calls of Americans that is described as the world's largest database.<br><br>• Access to information in a massive databank that carries 12.7 million messages each day on international financial transactions.<br><br>• Use of massive private databanks with access to an array of information on citizens, including at least 199 data-mining projects.<br><br>• Quiet support for a national registered-traveler program in which citizens voluntarily submit private information and subject themselves to background checks for faster passage through airport security. (The information would then be housed in a computer system accessible to the government.)<br><br>These computer databanks and programs are technically separate but collectively could exceed the dimensions of the DARPA program killed in 2003. Most of these systems have certain common characteristics, including the absence of congressional approval. Indeed, the recently disclosed financial transaction program was created by the Bush administration as an emergency program, but it has continued for years.<br><br>Although the administration has refused to involve the courts in such programs, it actually contracted out the role of oversight — according to the New York Times, it hired a private auditing firm to make sure that the monitoring of financial transactions was not being misused. Such outsourcing of civil liberty protections is hardly what the framers foresaw when they created a system of checks and balances.<br><br>Most of these programs are designed to look for suspicious conduct from everyday transactions. By combining information, the government uses "link analysis" to find something suspicious among otherwise innocent-looking transactions. It also is a technique that necessarily exposes innocent citizens to constant forms of surveillance or monitoring — the very danger of DARPA's Total Information Awareness program that Congress wanted to avoid.<br><br>It now appears that the administration has achieved by stealth what it could not achieve by persuasion in Congress: the creation of a computer network that could follow millions of citizens to reveal their movements and transactions.<br><br>It is all part of this administration's insatiable desire for information. With regard to its own conduct and information, the administration has fought against the notion of transparency — from refusing to disclose meetings with lobbyists, to denying Congress information needed for oversight, to threatening journalists with prosecution for revealing secret programs such as the NSA domestic surveillance program.<br><br>Yet, when it comes to citizens, the administration demands total transparency to allow it to monitor everyday transactions and conduct.<br><br>It is perhaps the greatest danger that can face a free society: a government cloaked in secrecy with total information on its citizens.<br><br>For most of our history, one of the greatest protections for civil liberties has been the practical inability of the government to surveil a large number of citizens at one time. In the last couple of decades, those technological barriers have fallen away.<br><br>In the meantime, the Supreme Court has removed legal barriers to the government's acquisition of personal information by allowing it to obtain the records of banks, telephone companies and other businesses without a warrant. This combination of legal and technological changes has laid the foundation for a fishbowl society in which citizens can be objects of continual surveillance.<br><br>Americans have long been defined by our privacy values. We have fiercely defended what Justice Louis Brandeis called "our right to be left alone." It is only in the assurance of privacy that free thoughts and free exercise of rights can be truly exercised. Such privacy evaporates with doubt; it is why the Constitution seeks to avoid the chilling effect of uncertainty in government searches and seizures.<br><br>Yet, the problem has been that these programs have been revealed and analyzed in isolation. Each insular program has been defended in insular terms. It is just domestic telephone numbers or just international transactions. Citizens have become accustomed to a steady stream of secret programs and new forms of government monitoring. It is something that our fiercely independent ancestors would have never imagined.<br><br>Privacy is dying in America — not with a fight but a yawn.<br><br>Jonathan Turley is a law professor at George Washington University.<br><br>© 2006 Los Angeles Times<br><br> <br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0624-29.htm">www.commondreams.org/views06/0624-29.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Are we all on The List because of being here?

Postby 4911 » Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:03 am

..did anyone else hear that pin drop?<br><br><br>...are those tumbleweeds blowing across the board?<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Are we all on The List because of being here?

Postby sunny » Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:38 am

I think we should start compiling a list of our own: a list of the disappeared.<br><br>As soon as the Torture Bill is signed, people <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>will</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> start disappearing, count on it. We here should at least insure that they are not forgotten- let their names serve as an indictment, as well as a memorial. <br><br>A couple of high-profile "names" will serve as an example, to instill fear.<br><br>Are we on a list? Of course, especially if we are politically active on the "outside." Have you joined a protest? you're on it. Have you agitated against this administration in any way at all? you're on it.<br><br>It's useless to stop now. There is nothing we can do to get off "The List." Might as well make the best of it. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Are we all on The List because of being here?

Postby MASONIC PLOT » Sun Oct 01, 2006 11:20 am

I have a list of my own already<br><br><br>Bush<br>Rove<br>Kristol<br>Rumsfeld<br>Zakheim<br>Cheney<br>Rice<br><br>We, the American people are watching YOU watch us. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: regarding Et's pic of Benito

Postby IanEye » Sun Oct 01, 2006 11:31 am

<!--EZCODE FONT START--><span style="color:black;font-family:courier;font-size:small;">The things that always strikes me about Mussolini's demise is that he is hanging from the rafters of <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>an Esso gas station</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->. In terms of his definition of Fascism as a union of Corporate and State Power, I love the image of him bleeding out all over Rockefeller's pumps as sort of the ultimate "pink slip". <br><br>Alan Dulles hands phone to Nelson Rockefeller....<br><br>"hey ah, Bennie? Look babe, those trains aren't running so on time these days so ah, gonna have to cut you loose.....yeah well, sorry about that.......Lo- yeah, look if it's any consolation it looks like were going to have to downsize the German Branch as well. You know Bormann sez he's got some nifty technology he wants us to take a look at..... yeah, you got anything like that? No? Ah, the signals kinda breaking up, we'll talk later then...ok ok bye"<br><br>for more research see:<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://yamaguchy.netfirms.com/benito/paths.html">yamaguchy.netfirms.com/benito/paths.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://members.aol.com/Custermen85/ILDUCE/Mussolini.htm">members.aol.com/Custermen...solini.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--></span><!--EZCODE FONT END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Are we all on The List because of being here?

Postby AlicetheCurious » Sun Oct 01, 2006 11:38 am

Oh, come on!<br><br>With all due respect to us armchair internet warriors, we're not exactly 'their' worst nightmare...<br><br>The people who tend to "disappear" in tyrannies (check out Iraq, Latin America, etc.) are those who have influence, a real network, a respectable and credible track record, and probably the information and/or material resources to actually threaten the ptb.<br><br>We're the proles, child, read 1984 again -- it's so much easier to deal with us by dumbing us down, making us emotionally and psychologically dependent on them through 'infotainment', straight-out entertainment, medication and terror of the latest bogeyman they create, rather than on each other. <br><br>Learned helplessness and social isolation are so much more efficient than incarcerating or 'disappearing' every keyboard jockey anonymously venting online.<br><br>You Americans are already so afraid of each other in real life, now it's time to be afraid of even communicating on the net...<br><br>If you really want to fight the corporate octopus, you're going to have re-learn something that Americans have mostly forgotten: how to create real relationships between real people as a foundation for community.<br><br>It won't be easy, but at least you'll have the satisfaction of possibly being considered a genuine threat, not to mention the emotional, psychological and health benefits (maybe even physical, spiritual and professional benefits as well).<br><br>And then, if they kill you, at least you'll know the difference. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Are we all on The List because of being here?

Postby erosoplier » Sun Oct 01, 2006 12:00 pm

I was going to post something on the "61% question 9/11 - msnbc poll" thread yesterday, but I stopped myself because it occured to me that others here might not appreciate my candour. <br> <br>I think openness is the only way to go, but I'm not in the US, I'm not on this front line, so I'll have to follow other people's lead.<br><br> Modern Western democracies are pathologically secretive already, where it counts, despite the fact that our self perception is the complete opposite to this. Is the main impact of this legislation going to be not just the reality of people - American citizens even - getting thrown in jail, stripped of rights, but rather on people thoughts? Is its more prominent effect going to be as defacto thought crime legislation?<br><br>Part of what I was going to say yesterday was, all other things being equal, wouldn't an honest reaction from an honest administration be to hastily mobilise to address the implications of such alarming poll results? Wouldn't they be out in force to "nip this sort of crazy talk in the bud"? My point yesterday was going to be: Methinks they ain't protesting loudly enough!<br><br>My thought today is, have they already hastily mobilised to address the implications of such alarming poll results, and I just hadn't noticed?<br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Are we all on The List because of being here?

Postby sunny » Sun Oct 01, 2006 12:01 pm

Alice, a few years ago I would have agreed with you. ( I <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>do</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> agree with you about building communities.)<br><br>But the internet has made it possible for information dangerous to the ptb to be spread to a significant portion of the population, resulting not only in widespread revulsion for these crooks, but a healthy skepticism and resistance to their propaganda. (not evident in msm reporting, I admit) While ordinary forum contributors and commenters may slide under the radar, <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>effective</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> purveyors of alternative information are, in my opinion, in peril. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Are we all on The List because of being here?

Postby 4911 » Sun Oct 01, 2006 12:04 pm

"And then, if they kill you, at least you'll know the difference"<br><br>incredibly reassuring - You got <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>my</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> vote for morale officer. <p></p><i></i>
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