Guantanamo suicides "act of war"

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Guantanamo suicides "act of war"

Postby Rigorous Intuition » Sun Jun 11, 2006 7:45 am

<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Guantanamo suicides 'acts of war'</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br>Sunday, 11 June 2006<br><br>The suicides of three detainees at the US base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, amount to acts of war, the US military says.<br><br>The camp commander said the two Saudis and a Yemeni were "committed" and had killed themselves in "an act of asymmetric warfare waged against us". <br><br>...<br><br>Rear Adm Harris said he did not believe the men had killed themselves out of despair.<br><br>"They are smart. They are creative, they are committed," he said.<br><br>"They have no regard for life, either ours or their own. I believe this was not an act of desperation, but an act of asymmetrical warfare waged against us." <br><br>All three men had previously taken part in some of the mass on-and-off hunger strikes undertaken by detainees since last August, and all three had been force-fed by camp authorities.<br><br>They had left suicide notes, but no details have been made available. <br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/5068606.stm">BBC</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Guantanamo suicides "act of war"

Postby AlicetheCurious » Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:25 am

Yeah, those vicious Guantanamo inmates, kidnapped, held without charge or contact with the outside world, subjected to torture and humiliation... When the US, the world's sole military superpower, kills hundreds of thousands of civilians, they are doing it for the loftiest of purposes, but if these poor wretches commit suicide, it's just evidence that "They have no regard for life, either ours or their own." Huh?<br><br>Woohoo! This is all getting a little heavy for me. I really wish I could wake up, or get my stomach pumped or whatever, but I really miss planet Earth, especially the human beings.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Yep

Postby existentialist » Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:34 am

...this has to be one of the greatest examples of 'spin' yet.<br><br>'Act of war' - it's pathetic really, what they are resorting to. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Yep

Postby StarmanSkye » Sun Jun 11, 2006 11:11 am

"'Act of war' - it's pathetic really, what they are resorting to."<br><br>Ditto; <br><br>This has GOT to be a new low. Just shows how perverse and wretchedly determined the MIC mindset is to foul everything it can and turn it to its corrupted purposes.<br><br>Starman <p></p><i></i>
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I dunno

Postby * » Sun Jun 11, 2006 11:30 am

<br>... this is what the neo-cons have been doing from the beginning. This statement :<br><br><br><br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"They have no regard for life, either ours or their own. I believe this was not an act of desperation, but an act of asymmetrical warfare waged against us."</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br><br> perfectly encapsulates the Bushco/Neocon 'persona' which they then attribute to whoever/whatever they seek to smear. You can read their entire <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>oeuvre</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> in this way and see that they're merely characterizing themselves. This is deliberate.<br><br><br><br><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Yep

Postby existentialist » Sun Jun 11, 2006 11:39 am

...and now I've made a comment, let me introduce myself.<br><br>I am 40 yr old male living in London, where I have lived all my life. I first noticed that all is not what it seems about 12 yrs ago with the birth of my first child - I wanted more for him than the world currently offered. I started to question things - a true awakening. I got interested in Hitlers Germany, and how could 60 million people fall under the spell of one man? Of course, they didn't - there were many more individuals complicate in what happened - From there, 911 was a bolt from the blue - I knew about Pearl Harbour and the fact that the US has a history of subverting history to meet it's own agenda. The victor always writes history.<br><br>So why does this affect me? - because the UK has tied its apron strings (an English anachronism) to America and the US's insane drive to 'civilise' the world according to its own doctrines.<br><br>I am an atheist. However, I believe in right over wrong. It seems to me that we are approaching the end of times in some manner, our great global civilisation (i.e non-third world) will either fall, or be reborn, and is up to the few (and there are but a few) to take the matter into their own hands and change things.<br><br>I feel a collective guilt as an Englishman. We have been as is the US is now; we have imposed our will upon many cultures that did not need them. But we have made amends in ultimately becoming one of the most progressive democracies in the world, and it pains me to see that we are regressing. We seem to be following the path of the US. We have become their lap-dog (another English saying). So, what is to be done?<br><br>I'm looking for answers. And help.<br><br>Although, not wishing to appear fatalistic, I fear we may already be too far down the road to oblivion to do very much. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Yep

Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Sun Jun 11, 2006 1:01 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I first noticed that all is not what it seems about 12 yrs ago with the birth of my first child - I wanted more for him than the world currently offered.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Two good posts from two new members in the last 24 hours; welcome, existentialist..<br><br>I found myself in very similar circumstances upon becoming a father 3 1/2 years ago. Previously, I had a casual understanding about the scheme of things, but was a well-behaved, self-destructive nihilist it was an indifferent submission; a mode of being the TPTB prefer in it's useless eaters.<br><br>For us, most of our comforts are cold, but take heart in that you are not alone, and many of us here and elsewhere struggle with understanding and the dirge of attempting the awakening of those around us.<br><br>You've found a good place here with some very intellegent(and more importantly, rational) people that try unraveling the knot as objectively as possible. It's usually pretty ugly, but someone has to do it, lest the hour be as late as you consider it to be. I feel that if it were at that point already, the prison camps would already be in full swing most likely with me rotting in one, so not so fast if you please, ok? <p></p><i></i>
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out of touch

Postby blanc » Sun Jun 11, 2006 1:39 pm

this comment (suicide as act of war) strikes as so blatantly idiotic in these circumstances that it makes me feel the spinners have lost it completely. Its tailor made for endless mockery by humourists, cartoonists et al, inept if its intended to throw off pity for the inmates. <br> <p></p><i></i>
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Suicide?

Postby friend catcher » Sun Jun 11, 2006 2:14 pm

I'm not so convinced it's suicide and if the military hadn't come up with this truly cretinous statement then maybe their would be more attention paid to the nature of these deaths. At the moment the liberal media are writing lots about imprisonment without hope being the root cause but I'm wondering where they got the bed sheets from.Surely, like shoe laces and razor blades, any obvious means of self harm are removed. Three simultaneous suicides does not sound credible. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Suicide?

Postby HMKGrey » Sun Jun 11, 2006 2:53 pm

<br><br>I've had the comment box open on screen for 15 minutes and honestly, I don't have the strength to write anything.<br><br>It would take Pulitzer/Booker/Nobel-like talent for me to articulate my absolute disgust at that statement. <br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"Today we would pass through the scenes of our youth like travellers. We are burnt up by hard facts; like tradesmen we understand distinctions, and like butchers, necessities. We are no longer untroubled - we are indifferent. We might exist there; but should we really live there? We are forlorn like children, and experienced like old men, we are crude and sorrowful and superficial - I believe we are lost."</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Erich Maria Remarque, All Quiet On the Western Front </strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Suicide?

Postby pugzleyca3 » Sun Jun 11, 2006 3:17 pm

"They have no regard for life, either ours or their own. I believe this was not an act of desperation, but an act of asymmetrical warfare waged against us."<br><br>I always say, they call you what they are. <br><br>Another in a long, long line of daily outrages brought to you by: The Usual Suspects.<br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Suicide?

Postby bvonahsen » Sun Jun 11, 2006 3:24 pm

Introducing a new newspeak phrase:<br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>asymmetrical warfare</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br>Interesting concept, one wonders what acts of <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>asymmetrical warfare</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> the pentagon commits on us? <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Suicide?

Postby chiggerbit » Mon Jun 12, 2006 8:21 pm

What bothers me about the government's description of these suicides is the feel of cultishness. One of the characteristics of cult leaders is their use of language, the way they are able to frame ideas with words that are scewed away from reality. On the flip side is the cult members susceptibility to the hypnotic language, the way they accept the illogical as logical. That is the Republican voting public. They are mersmerized. It really is frightening.<br><br>For instance, look at Lifton's list, where he is talking about China and mind control (thought reform), for pity's sake:<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Lifton">en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Lifton</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>Lifton's 1961 book Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism: A Study of "Brainwashing" in China was a study of coercive techniques that others had described as "brainwashing" or "mind control". Lifton describes in detail eight methods which he says are used to change peoples minds without their agreement:<br><br>milieu control (controlled relations with the outer world) <br>mystic manipulation (the group has a higher purpose than the rest) <br>confession (confess past and present sins) <br>self-sanctification through purity (pushing the individual towards a not-attainable perfection) <br>aura of sacred science (beliefs of the group are sacrosanct and perfect) <br>loaded language (new meanings to words, encouraging black-white thinking, thought-stoppers) <br>doctrine over person (the group is more important than the individual) <br>dispensed existence (insiders are saved, outsiders are doomed) <br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=chiggerbit@rigorousintuition>chiggerbit</A> at: 6/12/06 6:26 pm<br></i>
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Re: Suicide?

Postby chiggerbit » Mon Jun 12, 2006 9:02 pm

Hmmmm, came across this as I was doing a search on the above.<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.codt.org/dictionary.htm">www.codt.org/dictionary.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Suicide?

Postby chiggerbit » Mon Jun 12, 2006 9:32 pm

<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.refocus.org/charcult.html">www.refocus.org/charcult.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>Characteristics of a Destructive Cult:<br>1. Authoritarian pyramid structure with authority at the top <br><br>2. Charismatic or messianic leader(s) (Messianic meaning they either say they are God OR that they alone can interpret the scriptures the way God intended.....the leaders are self-appointed.) <br><br>3. Deception in recruitment and/or fund raising <br><br>4. Isolation from society -- not necessarily physical isolation like on some compound in Waco, but this can be psychological isolation -- the rest of the world is not saved, not Christian, not transformed (whatever) -- the only valid source of feedback and information is the group <br><br>5. Use of mind control techniques (we use Dr. Robert Jay Lifton's criteria from chapter 22 of his book "Thought Reform & the Psychology of Totalism" to compare whether the eight psychological and social methods he lists are present in the group at question) <br><br>Mileu Control: Control of the environment and communication within the environment <br><br>Mystical Manipulation: Seeks to promote specific patterns of behavior and emotion in such a way that it appears to have arisen spontaneously from within the environment, while it actually has been orchestrated totalist leaders claim to be agents chosen by God, history, or some supernatural force, to carry out the mystical imperative the "principles" (God-centered or otherwise) can be put forcibly and claimed exclusively, so that the cult and its beliefs become the only true path to salvation (or enlightenment) <br><br>Demand for Purity: The world becomes sharply divided into the pure and the impure, the absolutely good (the group/ideology) and the absolutely evil (everything outside the group) one must continually change or conform to the group "norm"; tendencies towards guilt and shame are used as emotional levers for the group's controlling and manipulative influences <br><br>Confession: Cultic confession is carried beyond its ordinary religious, legal and therapeutic expressions to the point of becoming a cult in itself sessions in which one confesses to one's sin are accompanied by patterns of criticism and self-criticism, generally transpiring within small groups with an active and dynamic thrust toward personal change <br><br>Sacred Science: The totalist milieu maintains an aura of sacredness around its basic doctrine or ideology, holding it as an ultimate moral vision for the ordering of human existence questioning or criticizing those basic assumptions is prohibited a reverence is demanded for the ideology/doctrine, the originators of the ideology/doctrine, the present bearers of the ideology/doctrine offers considerable security to young people because it greatly simplifies the world and answers a contemporary need to combine a sacred set of dogmatic principles with a claim to a science embodying the truth about human behavior and human psychology <br><br>Loading the Language: Words are given new meanings -- the outside world does not use the words or phrases in the same way -- it becomes a "group" word or phrase <br><br>Doctrine Over Person: If one questions the beliefs of the group or the leaders of the group, one is made to feel that there is something inherently wrong with them to even question -- it is always "turned around" on them and the questioner/criticizer is questioned rather than the questions answered directly the underlying assumption is that doctrine/ideology is ultimately more valid, true and real than any aspect of actual human character or human experience and one must subject one's experience to that "truth" the experience of contradiction can be immediately associated with guilt one is made to feel that doubts are reflections of one's own evil when doubt arises, conflicts become intense <br><br>Dispensing of Existence: Since the group has an absolute or totalist vision of truth, those who are not in the group are bound up in evil, are not enlightened, are not saved, and do not have the right to exist; impediments to legitimate being must be pushed away or destroyed one outside the group may always receive their right of existence by joining the group; fear manipulation -- if one leaves this group, one leaves God or loses their salvation/transformation, or something bad will happen to them; the group is the "elite", outsiders are "of the world", "evil", "unenlightened", etc<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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