SCOTUS REBUKES BUSH ON GUANTANAMO

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SCOTUS REBUKES BUSH ON GUANTANAMO

Postby HMKGrey » Thu Jun 29, 2006 12:28 pm

is this as big as it sounds? <br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong><br> US Guantanamo tribunals 'illegal'</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br>The US Supreme Court has ruled that the Bush administration does not have the authority to try terrorism suspects by military tribunal.<br><br>In a landmark decision, justices upheld the challenge by Osama Bin Laden's ex-driver, Salim Ahmed Hamdan, against his trial at Guantanamo Bay.<br><br>The court's ruling that the proceedings violated Geneva Conventions is seen as a major blow to the administration.<br><br>But the ruling does not mean the closure of the Guantanamo Bay camp.<br><br>The Cuba-based facility currently holds about 460 inmates, mostly without charge, whom the US suspects of links to al-Qaeda or the Taleban.<br><br>Legal hurdles<br><br>Mr Hamdan is one of 10 Guantanamo inmates facing a military tribunal.<br><br>He is demanding a civilian trial or court martial, where the prosecution would face more obstacles.<br><br>Five of the nine justices of the US Supreme Court supported the ruling. Three voted against.<br><br>Chief Justice John Roberts did not vote because he had judged the case at an earlier stage before joining the Supreme Court.<br><br>The ruling does not demand the release of prisoners held at Guantanamo but gives the administration an opportunity to come up with another way of trying those held.<br><br>The BBC's Nick Miles in Washington says the implications of the decision are profound, as the tribunals already in place will now be ended and 60 others planned will not go ahead.<br><br>White House spokesman Tony Snow said the presidency would comment "once we have read the decision".<br><br>Mr Hamdan had success in his first legal outing, in the US District Court in Washington, which ruled that he could not face a military trial unless he had previously been found not to be a prisoner of war under the Geneva Convention.<br><br>He claims POW status, but like all camp prisoners, he is denied this and is instead designated an "unlawful combatant" by the Bush administration.<br><br>However, an appeal court reversed this decision and said Mr Bush had the authority to order the trials.<br><br>Story from BBC NEWS:<br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/americas/5129904.stm">news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-...129904.stm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>Published: 2006/06/29 15:09:15 GMT<br><br>© BBC MMVI <p></p><i></i>
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Re: SCOTUS REBUKES BUSH ON GUANTANAMO

Postby heyjt » Thu Jun 29, 2006 12:34 pm

MSNBC is playing it up as a major blow to the Bush Administration. Very suprising--<br> Can the "detainees" get lawyers and have stateside trials now?? <p></p><i></i>
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Re: SCOTUS REBUKES BUSH ON GUANTANAMO

Postby heyjt » Thu Jun 29, 2006 12:48 pm

Bush in Press Conference right now with Japan's PM, who is pulling out of Iraq:<br> (refering to the North Koreans, Bush says):<br>"What kind of a regime would kidnap people"?<br><br> Can you say "rendition"? I hope some reporter nails him on this... Questions from press beginning now... <p></p><i></i>
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Re: SCOTUS REBUKES BUSH ON GUANTANAMO

Postby NewKid » Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:02 pm

It's a monster of a long opinion, but here are some initial summaries and observations. <br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.scotusblog.com/movabletype/archives/2006/06/hamdan_summary.html" target="top">www.scotusblog.com/movabletype/archives/2006/06/hamdan_summary.html</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.scotusblog.com/movabletype/archives/2006/06/decisions_5.html" target="top">www.scotusblog.com/movabletype/archives/2006/06/decisions_5.html</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br><br>The wingnuts will be pissed. If it were up to them, we'd not only get the D.C. circuit opinion upheld in this case, but a related rollback of significant first amendment protections as well in future cases. <br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://balkin.blogspot.com/2006/06/detention-for-dangerous-speech.html" target="top">balkin.blogspot.com/2006/06/detention-for-dangerous-speech.html</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: SCOTUS REBUKES BUSH ON GUANTANAMO

Postby so buttons » Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:09 pm

"MSNBC is playing it up as a major blow to the Bush Administration. Very suprising--<br>Can the "detainees" get lawyers and have stateside trials now?? "<br><br><br>I just printed out the opinion, and though I haven't been able to read it in full (50+ pages), I understand that the Court basically rejected the notion of labeling the Guantanomo detainees as "enemy combatants" instead of "prisoners of war", which disqualifies them from the protections of the Geneva Convention. <br><br>However, the weight of the holding is basically that the Detainee Treatment Act of 2005, which basically denies habeas corpus and all other constitutional privileges to detainees, is not necessarily retroactive, so Bush can't unilaterally organize war trials in which the defendants/detainees aren't allowed habeas corpus nor assistance of counsel in regard to matters that were pending when the DTA was enacted, but if he gets the OK from Congress then he can go right ahead. So, to answer your question, no, "detainees" have no access to stateside lawyers and trials unless they were formally charged before December 2005, and even that qualification is only effective until Bush implores Congress to retroactivate.<br><br>I think this ruling is being overblown as more damaging to the administration than it really is. If Congress was will to authorize the DTA then I don't know why they would object to making it retroactive upon the request of the "president." I think this is basically a media-driven mindgame to give the false impression that there are still checks and balances. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: SCOTUS REBUKES BUSH ON GUANTANAMO

Postby wintler » Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:03 am

<br>But wont Bush Co. just appeal it away? Surely they will just play legal tag till end of the administration and then let someone else worry about it.<br><br>-<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200606/s1675527.htm">www.abc.net.au/news/newsi...675527.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>"...Aus PM Howard agrees the case has dragged on for too long but says he has no sympathy for Hicks.<br>"It has gone on too long there's no doubt about that," Mr Howard said.<br>"But on the other hand I don't greet with any great enthusiasm the idea that a person who's admitted doing what he admits to having done can come back to this country and not be tried."<br><br>--<br><br>Difficulty for Howard is that Hicks hasn't broken any Australian laws, and his very few visitors hint he has gone ever so slightly nuts (in a petrified, child-like sense) in his four+ years of imprisonment and interrogation. He is still in solitary confinement. <br>His dad has repeatedly stepped up to the plate, speaking some of the most heart wrenching words heard on Aus TV in years. Hicks US military lawyer, Col. Mike Mori, seems a surprise packet too, in a good way. If he is sincere, I fear for his sanity too. <br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: SCOTUS REBUKES BUSH ON GUANTANAMO

Postby sunny » Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:53 am

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>But wont Bush Co. just appeal it away?<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>The SCOTUS is the ultimate appeals court, there is no one to appeal to-<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>but</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> there is nothing stopping the lapdog Congress from enacting laws that make what he is doing "legal" <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2006/06/significance-of-hamdan-v-rumsfeld.html" target="top">Read Greenwalds analysis</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>(5) Congress can reverse almost every aspect of the decision as it specifically pertains to these military commissions. It could abrogate any treaties it wants. It could amend the UCMJ to allow military commissions with the rules established by the President. It has already stripped the Court of jurisdiction to hear future habeas corpus challenges by Guantanamo detainees, and could act to further strip the Court of jurisdiction in these areas. We will undoubtedly hear calls by Pat Roberts, John Cornyn, Jeff Sessions, Tom Coburn (and perhaps Joe Lieberman?) et al. for legislation which would accomplish exactly that.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Also, it is not clear to me at all that BushCo would actually obey the opinion, or what, if anything, would happen if they didn't. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=sunny@rigorousintuition>sunny</A> at: 6/30/06 4:55 am<br></i>
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Re: SCOTUS REBUKES BUSH ON GUANTANAMO

Postby friend catcher » Fri Jun 30, 2006 7:06 am

According to bbc it will be business as usual<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/5131812.stm">news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world...131812.stm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: SCOTUS REBUKES BUSH ON GUANTANAMO

Postby sunny » Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:18 am

Glenn Greenwald, in today's posting:<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Astonishingly, it even arguably laid the foundation for finding that the President has engaged in war crimes by systematically violating the mandates of the Geneva Conventions. And it resoundingly rejected as the unconstitutional atrocities that they are the President's theories of executive power.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: SCOTUS REBUKES BUSH ON GUANTANAMO

Postby pugzleyca3 » Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:13 pm

From what I am hearing, the extreme right is saying that since the prisoners in the "war on terror" are stateless, the Geneva Convention is not applicable. I haven't read enough about it to know whether or not this is actually an issue or if it is smoke and mirrors, but seems to be the same old argument they've always used.<br><br>It also appears that the next step for the B*sh admin. is to go to Congress and simply make it legal through legislation. If this happens, you can bet your ass he won't be convicted of any war crimes. Or be held responsible anymore than he has been to date. <br><br>If I have to sit back and watch this happen, there will be no doubt in my mind that we are truly being ruled by a fascist dictatorship and we are beyond turning back.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Witness for the defence

Postby friend catcher » Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:25 pm

<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/guantanamo/story/0,,1809981,00.html">www.guardian.co.uk/guanta...81,00.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>A Guardian investigation locates witnesses for the defence of Guantanamo detainees in three days, although the US claimed they were nowhere to be found. <br><br>In a sane world this might be important, unfortunately.......... <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Witness for the defence

Postby NewKid » Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:43 pm

More analysis here. <br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://balkin.blogspot.com/" target="top">balkin.blogspot.com/</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Opinion leaves Bushies vulnerable to war crimes prosecution

Postby sunny » Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:22 am

<!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0630-27.htm">www.commondreams.org/views06/0630-27.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>Published on Friday, June 30, 2006 by the Los Angeles Times <br>Did Bush Commit War Crimes? <br>by Rosa Brooks <br> <br>The Supreme Court on Thursday dealt the Bush administration a stinging rebuke, declaring in Hamdan vs. Rumsfeld that military commissions for trying terrorist suspects violate both U.S. military law and the Geneva Convention. <br><br>But the real blockbuster in the Hamdan decision is the court's holding that Common Article 3 of the Geneva Convention applies to the conflict with Al Qaeda — a holding that makes high-ranking Bush administration officials potentially subject to prosecution under the federal War Crimes Act. <br><br>The provisions of the Geneva Convention were intended to protect noncombatants — including prisoners — in times of armed conflict. But as the administration has repeatedly noted, most of these protections apply only to conflicts between states. Because Al Qaeda is not a state, the administration argued that the Geneva Convention didn't apply to the war on terror. These assertions gave the administration's arguments about the legal framework for fighting terrorism a through-the-looking-glass quality. On the one hand, the administration argued that the struggle against terrorism was a war, subject only to the law of war, not U.S. criminal or constitutional law. On the other hand, the administration said the Geneva Convention didn't apply to the war with Al Qaeda, which put the war on terror in an anything-goes legal limbo. <br><br>This novel theory served as the administration's legal cover for a wide range of questionable tactics, ranging from the Guantanamo military tribunals to administration efforts to hold even U.S. citizens indefinitely without counsel, charge or trial. <br><br>Perhaps most troubling, it allowed the administration to claim that detained terrorism suspects could be subjected to interrogation techniques that constitute torture or cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment under international law, such as "waterboarding," placing prisoners in painful physical positions, sexual humiliation and extreme sleep deprivation. <br><br>Under Bush administration logic, these tactics were not illegal under U.S. law because U.S. law was trumped by the law of war, and they weren't illegal under the law of war either, because Geneva Convention prohibitions on torture and cruel treatment were not applicable to the conflict with Al Qaeda. <br><br>In 2005, Congress angered the administration by passing Sen. John McCain's amendment explicitly prohibiting the use of cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment of detainees. But Congress did not attach criminal penalties to violations of the amendment, and the administration has repeatedly indicated its intent to ignore it. <br><br>The Hamdan decision may change a few minds within the administration. Although the decision's practical effect on the military tribunals is unclear — the administration may be able to gain explicit congressional authorization for the tribunals, or it may be able to modify them to comply with the laws of war — the court's declaration that Common Article 3 applies to the war on terror is of enormous significance. Ultimately, it could pave the way for war crimes prosecutions of those responsible for abusing detainees. <br><br>Common Article 3 forbids "cruel treatment and torture [and] outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment." The provision's language is sweeping enough to prohibit many of the interrogation techniques approved by the Bush administration. That's why the administration had argued that Common Article 3 did not apply to the war on terror, even though legal experts have long concluded that it was intended to provide minimum rights guarantees for all conflicts not otherwise covered by the Geneva Convention. <br><br>But here's where the rubber really hits the road. Under federal criminal law, anyone who "commits a war crime … shall be fined … or imprisoned for life or any term of years, or both, and if death results to the victim, shall also be subject to the penalty of death." And a war crime is defined as "any conduct … which constitutes a violation of Common Article 3 of the international conventions signed at Geneva." In other words, with the Hamdan decision, U.S. officials found to be responsible for subjecting war on terror detainees to torture, cruel treatment or other "outrages upon personal dignity" could face prison or even the death penalty. <br><br>Don't expect that to happen anytime soon, of course. For prosecutions to occur, some federal prosecutor would have to issue an indictment. And in the Justice Department of Atty. Gen. Alberto Gonzales — who famously called the Geneva Convention "quaint" — a genuine investigation into administration violations of the War Crimes Act just ain't gonna happen. <br><br>But as Yale law professor Jack Balkin concludes, it's starting to look as if the Geneva Convention "is not so quaint after all." <br><br>Rosa Brooks is a professor at the University of Virginia School of Law. Her book, "Can Might Make Rights? The Rule of Law After Military Interventions" (with Jane Stromseth and David Wippman), will be published in 2006 by Cambridge University Press. <br><br>© 2006 Los Angeles Times <br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Opinion leaves Bushies vulnerable to war crimes prosecut

Postby chiggerbit » Sat Jul 01, 2006 11:52 am

In retrospect:<br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.counterpunch.org/cassel06112003.html">www.counterpunch.org/cassel06112003.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <p></p><i></i>
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