Paul Craig Roberts: Bush will Nuke Iran

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Re: No, it does matter

Postby Dreams End » Fri Sep 29, 2006 7:09 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>About the mechanisms, for Zionists to pull some strategic strings, I can think of quite a few offhand: espionage, bribery, blackmail, a powerful PR machine that can make or break public careers, threats and intimidation, assassination, campaign fundraising / boycotting.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Believe it or not, these are also utilized by the US...and I'm guessing with more people, more money and larger interests at stake, you can consider the difference exponential. So this resolves nothing. Why is Israel better able to use these strategies to get its will imposed in the US but the US can't use these things to counter or reverse this? It's magical thinking...attributing disproportionate power with no actual objective basis for that power. <br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr><br>(those "talking points" that suddenly pop up everywhere all at once, like the "Nazi infiltration of the Left", you know, like that).<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>I have not seen this line of thought in very many places. Well, actually, none. I see writing about the red-brown alliance but only regarding Russia. And I see some stuff in ultra-Conservative Frontpage, but to them, it's just about "looniness" and they see no bigger picture....whether that is shortsightedness or due to their propaganda function, I don't know.<br><br>So please do direct me to other places "popping up everywhere all at once" who are discussing this. I'd really like to see them. Don't count my blog, because...um... I write that.<br><br>For Gouda...well, there's a big picture I'm looking at that calls into question a lot of conventional wisdom. But for now, just look at what you already know about US support of Islamic militant groups...Mujahadeen in Afghanistan and then importing many of them to "protect" Bosnian muslims, who were also getting arms from Iran. Look at the relationship with Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. And I think you'll find other types of US support of Islamic fundamentalists as part of a strategy to counter the USSR. But that's for later...I'm not making the argument now so as not to further derail this topic.<br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Paul Craig Roberts: Bush will Nuke Iran

Postby Dreams End » Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:41 am

Here's Madsen on the exact same topic.....in October of 2004.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>October 20, 2004<br>A Bush pre-election strike on Iran 'imminent' White House insider report "October Surprise" imminent<br>By Wayne Madsen<br><br>According to White House and Washington Beltway insiders, the Bush administration, worried that it could lose the presidential election to Senator John F. Kerry, has initiated plans to launch a military strike on Iran's top Islamic leadership, its nuclear reactor at Bushehr on the Persian Gulf, and key nuclear targets throughout the country, including the main underground research site at Natanz in central Iran and another in Isfahan. Targets of the planned U.S. attack reportedly include mosques in Tehran, Qom, and Isfahan known by the U.S. to headquarter Iran's top mullahs.<br><br>The Iran attack plan was reportedly drawn up after internal polling indicated that if the Bush administration launched a so-called anti-terrorist attack on Iran some two weeks before the election, Bush would be assured of a landslide win against Kerry. Reports of a pre-emptive strike on Iran come amid concerns by a number of political observers that the Bush administration would concoct an "October Surprise" to influence the outcome of the presidential election.<br><br>According to White House sources, the USS John F. Kennedy was deployed to the Arabian Sea to coordinate the attack on Iran. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld discussed the Kennedy's role in the planned attack on Iran when he visited the ship in the Arabian Sea on October 9. Rumsfeld and defense ministers of U.S. coalition partners, including those of Albania, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Georgia, Hungary, Iraq, Latvia, Lithuania, Macedonia, Mongolia, Poland, Qatar, Romania, and Ukraine briefly discussed a very "top level" view of potential dual-track military operations in Iran and Iraq in a special "war room" set up on board the aircraft carrier. America's primary ally in Iraq, the United Kingdom, did not attend the planning session because it reportedly disagrees with a military strike on Iran. London also suspects the U.S. wants to move British troops from Basra in southern Iraq to the Baghdad area to help put down an expected surge in Sh'ia violence in Sadr City and other Sh'ia areas in central Iraq when the U.S. attacks Iran as well as clear the way for a U.S. military strike across the Iraqi-Iranian border aimed at securing the huge Iranian oil installations in Abadan. U.S. allies South Korea, Australia, Kuwait, Jordan, Italy, Netherlands, and Japan were also left out of the USS John F. Kennedy planning discussions because of their reported opposition to any strike on Iran.<br><br>In addition, Israel has been supplied by the United States with 500 "bunker buster" bombs. According to White House sources, the Israeli Air Force will attack Iran's nuclear facility at Bushehr with the U.S. bunker busters.The joint U.S.-Israeli pre-emptive military move against Iran reportedly was crafted by the same neo-conservative grouping in the Pentagon and Vice President Dick Cheney's office that engineered the invasion of Iraq.<br><br>Morale aboard the USS John F. Kennedy is at an all-time low, something that must be attributable to the knowledge that the ship will be involved in an extension of U.S. military actions in the Persian Gulf region. The Commanding Officer of an F-14 Tomcat squadron was relieved of command for a reported shore leave "indiscretion" in Dubai and two months ago the Kennedy's commanding officer was relieved for cause.<br><br>The White House leak about the planned attack on Iran was hastened by concerns that Russian technicians present at Bushehr could be killed in an attack, thus resulting in a wider nuclear confrontation between Washington and Moscow. International Atomic Energy Agency representatives are also present at the Bushehr facility. In addition, an immediate Iranian Shahab ballistic missile attack against Israel would also further destabilize the Middle East. The White House leaks about the pre-emptive strike may have been prompted by warnings from the CIA and the Defense Intelligence Agency that an attack on Iran will escalate out of control. Intelligence circles report that both intelligence agencies are in open revolt against the Bush White House.<br><br>White House sources also claimed they are "terrified" that Bush wants to start a dangerous war with Iran prior to the election and fear that such a move will trigger dire consequences for the entire world.<br><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Sound familiar?<br><br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.prep2003.com/october_surprise.htm">link</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Paul Craig Roberts: Bush will Nuke Iran

Postby Gouda » Sat Sep 30, 2006 7:52 am

No doubt whatsoever that Israeli groups and networks are a tad more influential and intimidating than say, the sort-of powerful Albanian lobby, or the kind-of mighty Armenian lobby. (Yet, the Albanian government is not genociding the Greeks - though Albanians in kosovo trying to genocide Serbs is another matter - and the Armenians, well, they've already been genocided.) So the Turks must have a pretty powerful lobby in the US. Nope, afraid the award does go to Israel. But the award could probably be co-shared with the Saudis, the Lockheed Federation, and the Republic of Citigroup, and United Think Tanks of America. And all these owe allegiance to intelligence-infused, financial policy, security and equities coordinating behemoths such as Kissinger Associates; Carlyle Group; Albright Group; the Cohen Group; the Saudi Royal Family, Russian Oligarchs and their Associated Billionaire Arms Dealers; who team up with their European brethren. Whatever the USA really is these days (somehow has become a Disneyland for all these bad boys) there is no doubt whatsoever that the US ruling interests have their own pretty good lobby (ok, let's say the Premier Lobby) in every country around the world - except in those with revolutionary socialist governments like Venezuela, Cuba, Bolivia (hold on a sec...working on them too). Israel is distant from the days of ever having a revolutionary socialist government. Never had a chance (like so any other places due to the conniving mutual interests of the US/UK/Zionist capitalist elite). Never was meant to be, I guess. Today Israel is a damned tough and damned powerful and damned criminal mini-me version (as alice put it) of the USA (sporting a lot of the Nazi baggage that comes with deals with the Devil.) Seems obvious to me they are pretty much let to have their way inside and outside the USA and/or the Americas, and for whatever reason it can’t be good. I will stand side by side with any Israeli Person (damned abstract categories again) to fight nazi or fascist threats, whether they be a US-Arab Nazi brotherhood or a Zionist-Nazi brotherhood, anywhere, anytime. I will also stand side by side with any Arab, Persian, Latino, African under the boot of any fascist movement or regime. IT can happen here again, and it does happen everywhere. <br><br>But all this said does not preclude DE’s argument that the US is also funding and arming hostile (to Israel) Arab groups, or nations (if we can call anything a “nation” anymore). DE, could you believe that even certain Israelis may be just as interested in arming and training hostile Arab groups? Isn't the US “outsourcing” that job to Israeli mil-intel in certain cases? Maybe the ruling elites of both Israel and the US are really, truly NOT working in the interests of their home turf, where regular people happen to live. <br><br>***<br><br>btw, good piece on PCR, DE. I did not know that about VDARE. Yet another one of those “I did not know that! But now I do,” moments. And now that I know that, I’m gonna use it where it needs to be used. I've got a few lefty friends flirting with buchananites who need to see this.<br><br>And Madsen needs to be locked back up in the bowels of the NSA before he hurts somebody. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=gouda@rigorousintuition>Gouda</A> at: 9/30/06 6:06 am<br></i>
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Re: Paul Craig Roberts: Bush will Nuke Iran

Postby AlicetheCurious » Sat Sep 30, 2006 9:10 am

Yeah, right, DE, you had no idea that the message you've been pushing on various threads (esp that 'Islamic fascism' thread) just happens to be one of the main pillars of Zionist 'hasbara'.<br><br>The "anti-semitism on the Left" and "antisemitism disguised as anti-Zionism" chorus has been a big Zionist propaganda talking point for years, reaching a crescendo during the past 4 years or so.<br><br>DE, you're either being dishonest, or you are too pitifully uninformed for your opinion to carry much weight. <br><br>I vote for the former. Somehow I doubt that it never occurred to you to do a Google search with the two words: "Left" and "anti-semitism". I did, and immediately got millions of hits, every single one of them a variation on the theme that the Left is, indeed, anti-semitic.<br><br>After the first few, frankly, I got too bored to go on, but not before noting that not one of them mentions at any time, international law, violations of UN resolutions and Geneva Conventions. <br><br>Most refer to Palestinian or 'Arab' (some actually deny that there is such thing as a Palestinian) "terrorism", contrasting it to Israel's 'struggle to survive', through such means as the "Defence Wall" (no mention of the land grab, home demolitions, isolation and financial destitution that the apartheid Wall is causing). The fact that the Wall has been declared illegal by the International Court of Justice at the Hague is cited as just one more example of 'international anti-semitism'.<br><br>Another recurring theme is that of a "double-standard": why does the Left condemn only Israel? As though Israel does not benefit from exceptional subsidies and privileges, including the abuse of the US veto power in the UN to silence criticism and official condemnation of Israel's crimes, and massive taxpayer-funded military and financial aid, not to mention the EU-Israel Association Agreement, that gives preferential treatment to Israeli exports. <br><br>Believe it or not, Israel actually taxes all foreign aid to the Palestinians under occupation, including the EU's (which has now been suspended, depriving the Palestinians of even that small income). Instead of feeding Palestinian children, or providing urgent humanitarian assistance, Israel uses this money to kill more Palestinians and build more settlements.<br><br>As they did two weeks ago, Israeli occupation forces have stolen millions of dollars from Palestinian banks and foreign exchange offices, making an already desperate situation even more hopeless.<br><br>But this is not relevant. If more and more voices are being raised against Israel, it's nothing to do with the nature and behaviour of the Zionist state, no, it must be due to anti-semitism...<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Contemporary empirical realities demonstrate one undeniable fact: anti-Semitism is no longer associated prominently with the Right. Instead, the primary source of the hatred of Jews now emanates from the Left. In fact, anti-Semitism has evolved into a cultural code and even a rallying cry for progressive radicals throughout the world. This reality is perfectly illustrated by contemporary efforts to pressure Western universities and institutions to divest from financial holdings in Israel.<br><br>What explains this phenomenon of growing Leftist anti-Semitism? Why has contempt for Jews become the mantle of Leftist politics – or was it actually always the case, but just more subtle? To discuss these and other aspects of Leftist anti-Semitism with us today, Frontpage Symposium has aligned a distinguished panel of experts. Our guests today are Michael Lerner, the editor of Tikkun magazine, www.tikkun.org, rabbi of Beyt Tikkun synagogue in S.F., and author of eight books including The Politics of Meaning, Spirit Matters: Global Healing and the Wisdom of the Soul, and most recently Healing Israel/Palestine; Judith Klinghoffer, a senior associate scholar at the Political Science Department at Rutgers University, Camden, and the author of Vietnam, Jews and the Middle East; Leonard Dinnerstein, a professor of American history and director of the Judaic Studies Program at the University of Arizona. He is also the author of America and the Survivors of the Holocaust and Antisemitism in America; and Jonathan Kay, the editorials editor of the National Post who has written extensively on anti-Semitism and the academic Left.(jkay@nationalpost.com)<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=6651">www.frontpagemag.com/Arti...sp?ID=6651</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Theodore Dalrymple<br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>The British Left Goes Anti-Semitic<br>Socialism and anti-Semitism are closely related worldviews.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br>23 July 2002<br><br>There are other connections between left-wing thought and anti-Semitism (usually believed to be a disease of the Right alone). The liberal intellectual who laments the predominance of dead white males in the college syllabus or the lack of minority representation in the judiciary uses fundamentally the same argument as the anti-Semite who objects to the prominence of Jews in the arts, sciences, professions, and in commerce. They both assume that something must be amiss—a conspiracy—if any human group is over- or under-represented in any human activity, achievement, or institution.<br><br>The Middle East conflict has given respectability to old prejudices, especially in British academic circles. Two hundred British academics, some eminent, have selected Israel, of all the countries in the world, as the object of a total boycott, as if Israel were a uniquely evil state. While one can disagree strongly with the Israeli government’s policies without being anti-Semitic, the selection of Israel alone for a boycott in a world in which atrocity and suppression of freedom are routine must arouse suspicions of pre-existing animus—that is to say, of old-fashioned anti-Semitism.<br><br>...what is clear is that anti-Semitism is no longer (if it ever was) the preserve of the neo-Nazis. Because of the structural similarities between leftist thought and anti-Semitism, it remains a permanent temptation on the Left as well as on the Right.<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.city-journal.org/html/eon_7_23_02td.html">www.city-journal.org/html..._02td.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Left-Wing Antisemitism - An Overview</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->A. Campuses<br>B. Unification of Powerful Forces <br>C Focus points <br>A. Campuses <br><br>When violence erupted between Israel and the Palestinians on 29th September 2000, the Left rediscovered its pet cause. It had, since the late 1960s, perceived and presented the Palestinians as the victims of Israel. The David of the new millennium wears a keffiyah. Goliath drives a tank. <br><br>University College campuses worldwide became the breeding ground for a new generation of Left-wing antisemites.<br>Harvard University President, Lawrence Summers, caused a stir with a speech in which he charged that Antisemitism was making a comeback under the guise of criticizing Israel's conduct toward the Palestinians. <br><br>In the UK, Prof. Mona Baker of the University of Manchester Institute of Science and Technology admitted that she fired two scholars from journals that she owns, solely because the two scholars were both Israeli citizens. [Article: <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.jafi.org.il/education/hasbara/headlines/nb16.html">www.jafi.org.il/education.../nb16.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> and <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,752523,00.html">www.guardian.co.uk/israel...23,00.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <br><br>In Canada, students rampaged through Montreal after a visit to Concordia University by Former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. [Article: <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.jafi.org.il/education/hasbara/headlines/nb19.html">www.jafi.org.il/education.../nb19.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> ] <br>B. Unification of Powerful Forces <br><br>With The US invasion of Iraq, a new alliance was created. <br><br>The anti-war movement merged with a plethora of radical left and anti-imperialism/globalization groups as well as many Palestinian groups. Stop the Occupation of Palestine and Iraq became a popular call. Left and Arab Antisemitism began to merge. <br><br>As the Social Democratic Movement of America states:<br><br>“On April 20, nearly 80,000 people marched on Washington, DC to protest many things, from IMF/World Bank policies to US military action in Colombia to an end to the current war. But one issue stood out above all others: solidarity with the people of Palestine against the aggression of Israel. As ideological as well as practical activists, it is vital that we not let the desire to unite the largest numbers possible obscure the need to make some vital political demarcations within the emerging movement for Palestinian sovereignty.."<br><br>Statement Adopted by the Young Democratic Socialists Coordinating Committee on May 26, 2002. <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.ydsusa.org/statements/israel2.html">www.ydsusa.org/statements/israel2.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>C Focus points<br><br>Left-wing Antisemitism is particularly dangerous because it comes from the liberal/ intellectual/"progressive causes" world - and is therefore publicly palatable, but more importantly: it thus becomes acceptable to certain opinion and decision makers. <br><br>It is no longer a fringe movement, nor is it confined to the university campus. <br><br>It is often expressed by persons within politically correct circles, considered beyond the pale of racism and xenophobia, - and who therefore do not recognize their own sentiments as Antisemitism. <br><br>Today, left- wing Antisemitism is virulent and advances unabated.<br><br>“Israel has become the Jew among nations,” says Mort Zuckerman, who - in addition to his media holdings - is the former chairman of the Council of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations. “It is both the surrogate — the respectable way of expressing Antisemitism — and the collective Jew.”<br><br>The Return of Antisemitism <br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.newyorkmetro.com/nymetro/news/religion/features/n_9622/index1.html">www.newyorkmetro.com/nyme...ndex1.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.jafi.org.il/education/antisemitism/nf/left1.html">www.jafi.org.il/education...left1.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>The New Anti-Semitism</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br>September 28th, 2005<br><br>I never thought I would see an open anti-Semitic political campaign in my lifetime. But after fifty years of skulking in the shadows, the old hatreds are rising like Count Dracula from his mouldy grave. According to the Palestinian news agency Wafa, The London Guardian is reporting that the academic boycott against Israel’s universities is being revived in Britain. It is all part of the tireless campaign against the existence of Israel, presumably financed by the Saudis behind the scenes, with the collusion of the United Nations, and driven most of all by the ideological Left. In spite of all denials, it is beginning to look like the old, discredited race hatred, barely disguised.<br><br>The new anti-Zionist campaign calls for the abolition of Israel as a nation, but its supporters on the Left assure us it has nothing to do with racism. It was George Orwell who once wrote that the first obligation of decent people is to say the obvious. Well, here is my obvious thought for the day: in spite of what the Left says, anti-Zionism equals racism, pure and simple. In fact, anti-Zionism, now spreading like wildfire among leftist churches, shows a particularly despicable kind of racism.<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=4858">www.americanthinker.com/a...le_id=4858</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>In their war against globalization, the browns on the far right have also found common cause with the greens of the new left. Matt Hale, the leader of the U.S. white supremacist World Church of the Creator, praised the 1999 antiglobalization protests in Seattle as ìincredibly successful from the point of view of the rioters as well as our Church. They helped shut down talks of the Jew World Order WTO and helped make a mockery of the Jewish Occupational Government around the world. Bravo. To lure in activists planning to protest the 2002 G-8 summit in Calgary, the National Alliance, the largest neo-Nazi organization in the United States that maintains ties with white supremacist groups worldwideóset up a Web site called the Anti-Globalism Action Network, dedicated to ìbroadening the anti-globalism movement to include divergent and marginalized voices.<br><br>Antiglobalization activists find themselves fighting a two-front battle, simultaneously protesting the World Trade Organization (WTO), IMF, and World Bank, while organizing impromptu counter-protests against far-right extremists who gate-crash their rallies. A bizarre ideological turf war has broken out. Nongovernmental organizations (NGOs) voice alarm about neo-Nazis ìmasquerading as anti-globalization activists. On the Web site of the white supremacist Church of True Israel, an aggrieved Walter Nowotny retorts: This accusation implies that we are late-comers to this movement and only associate with it to jump on a bandwagon that already has considerable momentum. But who are the real infiltrators and trespassers? <br><br>History is repeating itself. As in the 19th century, the far right is plagiarizing left-wing dogma and imbuing it with racist overtones, transforming the campaign against the capitalist ìNew World Orderî into a struggle against the ìJew World Order. The antiglobalization movement is, however, somewhat culpable. It isnít inherently anti-Semitic, yet it helps enable anti-Semitism by peddling conspiracy theories. In its eyes, globalization is less a process than a plot hatched behind closed doors by a handful of unaccountable bureaucrats and corporations. Underlying the movementís humanistic goals of universal social justice is a current of fear mongering; the IMF, the WTO, the North American Free Trade Agreement, and the Multilateral Agreement on Investment (MAI) are portrayed not just as exploiters of the developing world, but as supranational instruments to undermine our sovereignty. Pick up a copy of the 1998 book MAI and the Threat to American Freedom (wrapped in a patriotic red, white, and blue cover), written by antiglobalization activists Maude Barlow and Tony Clarke, and you'll read how 'Over the past twenty-five years, corporations and the state seem to have forged a new political alliance that allows corporations to gain more and more control over governance. This new ëcorporate rule poses a fundamental threat to the rights and democratic freedoms of all people. At an even more extreme end of the spectrum, the Web site of the Canadian-based Centre for Research on Globalization sells books and videos that 'expose' how the September 11 terrorist attacks were ìmost likely a special covert action to 'further the goals of corporate globalization.' <br><br>Unfortunately, conspiracy theories must always have a conspirator, and all too often, the conspirators are perceived to be Jews. It takes but a small step to cross the line dividing the two worldviews. 'If I told you I thought the world was controlled by a handful of capitalists and corporate bosses, you would say I was a left-winger,' an anarchist demonstrator told the online Russian publication Pravda. 'But if I told you who I thought the capitalists and corporate bosses were, you'd say I was far right.' <br><br>...<br><br>Anti-Globalizionism<br><br>The greens and the browns share another common cause: opposition to Israel. Given the antiglobalization movement's sympathy for Third-World causes, it's not surprising that French activist Jose Bove took a break from trashing McDonald's restaurants to show his solidarity with the Palestinian movement by visiting a besieged Yasir Arafat in Ramallah last year. <br><br>But, in the case of the new left, the salient question is not: What do antiglobalization activists have against Israel? Rather, it is important to ask: Why only Israel? Why didn't Bove travel to Russia to demonstrate his solidarity with Muslim Chechen separatists fighting their own war of liberation? Why are campus petitions demanding that universities divest funds from companies with ties to Israel, but not China? Why do the same anti-globalization rallies that denounce Israel's tactics against the Palestinians remain silent on the thousands of Muslims killed in pogroms in Gujarat, India? <br><br>Israel enjoys a unique pariah status among the antiglobalization movement because it is viewed as the world's sole remaining colonialist state; an exploitative, capitalist enclave created by Western powers in the heart of the developing world. 'Theyíre trying to impose an apartheid system on both the occupied territories and the Arab population in the rest of Israel,' says Bove. 'They are also putting in place, with the support of the World Bank, a series of neoliberal measures intended to integrate the Middle East into globalized production circuits, through the exploitation of cheap Palestinian labor.' <br><br>....<br><br>Such displays portray Israel as the sole perpetrator of violence, ignoring the hundreds of Israelis who have died in suicide bombings and the role of the Palestinian Authority in fomenting the conflict. And equating Israel with the Third Reich is the basest form of Holocaust revisionism, sending the message that the only 'solution' to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is nothing less than the complete destruction of the Jewish state.<br>...<br><br>Given its long experience adapting to new contingencies, the Jewish community is confronting global anti-Semitism with global solutions. <br><br>...<br><br>Jewish organizations are also becoming more of a presence in the antiglobalization movement. Last year, there were fears that the Johannesburg-hosted World Summit on Sustainable Development would turn into a replay of the ill-fated 2001 U.N. World Conference Against Racism in Durban, where anti-Semitic rhetoric culminated in a draft resolution adopted by the NGO forum singling out Israel as guilty of 'genocide.' <br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.aijac.org.au/updates/Oct-03/311003.html">www.aijac.org.au/updates/...11003.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Many so-called "progressives" openly traffick in antisemitism: "In recent ABC "Nightline" coverage of a rally in Berkeley, Calif., a reporter took a certain pride in telling viewers that "Nightline" chose not to run the image of a young woman holding up a caricature of Ariel Sharon, wearing a swastika prominently displayed on his armband, giving the Hitler salute. He found it too offensive. Notes Ron Rosenbaum in the New York Observer, that kind of "cover up" prevents us from observing how much "anti-Israel protests have become antisemitic.""(Fields)<br><br>"This great new surge of European antisemitism--if that is what these events signify--solves a puzzle that has been taxing a lot of Americans. Israel is a victim of terrorism, much as America was a victim of terrorism in September. Israel is defending itself against pitiless murderers with all available means, much as America is defending itself. Right and wrong in the matter, or so most Americans believe, could hardly be clearer. Why, then, Americans ask, is Europe taking the side of Palestine's suicide bombers, passing lightly over their crimes, while vilifying Israel's government for its restrained (under the circumstances) assault on the terrorist infrastructure of the West Bank? These perverted sympathies seem quite inexplicable--unless the answer, albeit painful to contemplate, is obvious. Anti-Semitism, it is argued, explains it all." (Leaders: Europe and the Jews; Anti-Semitism - (05-04-2002)-The Economist)<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END-->...<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Antisemitism lives and there is often a deafening silence....from the Left: "Antisemitism is alive and well and living in the 21st century. Of course, now it is all couched in anti-Israel rhetoric, the new cover for the old malady, and somehow socially acceptable. But it is not only in the one-sided media that I hear its echoes. Its very real manifestations are being played out in firebomb attacks on synagogues and community centres and Jewish school buses around the world. And where are the politicians and religious leaders? Deathly quiet." (Michele Mandel, "Silence Greets the New Antisemitism\and Israel Left to Fight Alone Again" - 04-14-2002 The Toronto Sun)<br><br>...<br><br>What you do hear is the mythology of Israeli mistreatment of Palestinian terrorists who are intent on destroying them. What you do hear is the antisemitism of the left which is very vocal in the anti-war movement.<br><br>"For weeks, Palestinian homicide bombers strapped with dynamite have targeted crowds of vulnerable civilians. Day after day after day, in pizza parlours and ice cream shops and discos. My, how quiet the world is. Where is the condemnation from church groups? Where are the non-Jewish protesters?" (Mandel)<br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Resurgent Antisemitism? - Consider what follows from "The Left's Anti-Semitic Chic", Washington Post, 2/25/2004; George F. Will - Will is not Jewish. He is a conservative writer but in this case the facts he outlines in his article are indisputable.</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>If Israel is not the Great Satan, it is allied with him -- America. European anti-American demonstrations often include Israel's blue and white flag with a swastika replacing the star of David, and signs perpetuating the myth, concocted by Palestinians and cooperative Western journalists, of an Israeli massacre in Jenin: "1943: Warsaw / 2002: Jenin."<br><br>Omer Bartov, a historian at Brown University, writes in the New Republic that much of what Hitler said "can be found today in innumerable places: on Internet sites, propaganda brochures, political speeches, protest placards, academic publications, religious sermons, you name it."<br> <br>Certainly there are abuses and overreaction by some in Israel, but consider what you would do if threatened with constant suicide bombings and mortar attacks on your towns and settlements. Consider how you might feel if you lost a child or a brother or mother or father and the enemy is clearly visible and teaches it's children to kill you. Consider that most Palestinians are not progressives and they do not show the same concern for civilian life that many in Israel do, and consider that there has been no one to talk to about reconciliation. Fortunately this position of antisemitism on the left is a fringe of the most ignorant, least informed, least read, least intelligent among them. Reason must prevail. And peaceful coexistence with Palestinians must prevail. <br>Israel is a democracy and criticism is expected in a democracy. The government is constantly examining it's policies and subjects itself to constant criticism and changes in policy. No other country in the Middle East is as open and as self-critical as Israel - yet every criticism is magnified and repeated by the left and Israel's other detractors. But the left is quiet about the obvious contravention of human rights and abuses of the totalitarian Islamic regimes. Israel is called racist because it is a "Jewish" State (a term denoting nationalism) whereas every one of the Islamic countries in the region, all 22 of them are Islamic and the term denotes religion yet they are never labeled racist by the left and the world community. The charge of racism against Israel was overturned and was not appropriate in the first place, yet those on the left, while quiet about the racism of Muslim countries continues to accuse Israel of a charge which does not apply and never did.<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://pnews.org/PhpWiki/index.php/ResurgentAntiSemitism">pnews.org/PhpWiki/index.p...tiSemitism</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>The anti-semitic left today, which depicts Israel as the hyper-imperialist power — either controlling US policy, or acting as its chief instrument, the story varies — is in the grip of an “anti-imperialism of the fools”. And that in practice leads to a comprehensive hostility to Jews not far from what Bebel called the socialism of fools.<br><br>One of the great tragedies of today is that many young people, whose initial instincts to oppose Bush and Blair in Iraq and to support the Palestinians are healthy, are being poisoned with “left-wing” anti-semitism through the “anti-war movement”.<br><br>“Left-wing anti-semitism” is, in short, a comprehensive hostility to most Jews alive, branding them as “Zionists” and seeing that description as akin to “racist" or “imperialist”. It excepts only those Jews who agree that Israel is racist imperialism in its most concentrated essence, and oppose its continued existence.<br>...<br><br>There is an immediate “antidote” to left-wing anti-semitism too, and it is a very important task for Marxist socialists like those who publish Solidarity: relentless exposure and criticism of their politics and antics — without fear of isolation, ridicule, or the venomous hostility of the vocal and self-righteous left-wing anti-semites.<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.workersliberty.org/node/5041">www.workersliberty.org/node/5041</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>The appallingly brief eclipse of anti-Semitism after Auschwitz demonstrates how beguiling is the simplicity of pure stupidity. All of the left's prescriptions for curing what ails society — socialism, communism, psychoanalysis, "progressive" education, etc. — have been discarded, so now the left is reduced to adapting that hardy perennial of the right, anti-Semitism. This is a new twist to the left's recipe for salvation through elimination: All will be well if we eliminate capitalists, or private property, or the ruling class, or "special interests," or neuroses, or inhibitions. Now, let's try eliminating a people, starting with their nation, which is obnoxiously pro-American and insufferably Spartan.<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0204/will_2004_02_25.php3">www.jewishworldreview.com...02_25.php3</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Paul Craig Roberts: Bush will Nuke Iran

Postby Dreams End » Sat Sep 30, 2006 12:19 pm

Alice, arguing with you is like herding cats. Please try to defend your stated position. You said this:<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>(those "talking points" that suddenly pop up everywhere all at once, like the "Nazi infiltration of the Left", you know, like that).<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>I have seen very, very little about that. It's central to my research now and I really want more info. (Doesn't have to be literally Nazi, but the whole red-brown thing)<br><br>Then you go on about how there are millions of hits on "left anti-semitism". I'm sure there are...and many of them put out by the right trying to discredit the left. I'm aware of that. But that wasn't what you brought up and it wasn't what I was responding to. And I get more cheap shots from you to boot. <br><br>Ballocks. <br><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Paul Craig Roberts: Bush will Nuke Iran

Postby AlicetheCurious » Sun Oct 01, 2006 7:16 am

Ok, arguing with me is like "herding cats". I suppose you would prefer to be herding sheep. <br><br>Newsflash: you're herding neither sheep, nor cats. You're herding shadows. There IS no 'Nazi-Left' alliance, and the only Left anti-semitism to be found is in the feverish writings and declarations of Zionist propagandists.<br><br>Surely there are racists who consider themselves Leftists, just as there are murderers, thieves and torture advocates who consider themselves Christians. And then there are the kooks who attach themselves to any cause, maybe because they perceive common ground, and maybe because they've been sent there to discredit the cause.<br><br>But if you're looking for ideological justification for racism or racist policies on the Left, you are so barking up the wrong tree.<br><br>The only reason I can even imagine, for someone to waste their time and energy in such a futile endeavor, and with such determination, is that he is marching to the Zionist drumbeat, faithfully sticking to the program, one slogan of which is: 'anti-Zionism is the new anti-semitism!"<br><br>That is one silly, baseless claim. Yet, so is the 'Saddam-al-Qaeda alliance'; so is the 'WMD in Iraq', so is the '19 Arabs with boxcutters brought America to its knees', so are many, many other stupid ideas that we are being commanded to believe, and which some of us do believe, by sheer force of repetition.<br><br>So, you're a dog barking up the wrong tree, and I'm a herd of cats. You're betting that there are a lot of terrified mice out there, afraid to speak out on behalf of Palestinian rights, because they know that to be branded an anti-semite is the kiss of death.<br><br>How about this: how about we ban the use of the "Nazi" epithet, we stop talking about how this or that leader is the "new Hitler".<br><br>You said that Roberts is a racist, and provided enough evidence that I, for one, was convinced. Knowing that he has actively supported a racist agenda, which he has not renounced, was enough to make me very wary of his writings, which I confess I previously took at face value.<br><br>Does the US intend to militarily attack Iran, either directly or using its Israeli proxy? We don't know, we can only sift through the signals and evidence available to us, and those are far from conclusive either way.<br><br>Roberts' predictions, although he doesn't provide much concrete evidence, were given added weight by his status as a former insider at the highest levels of American decision-making, and decades of experience in Washington.<br><br>Now, this must be counterbalanced with the possibility that he is being deliberately dishonest, in order to promote a secret agenda. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Paul Craig Roberts: Bush will Nuke Iran

Postby AlicetheCurious » Sun Oct 01, 2006 7:23 am

By the way, Gouda, I couldn't have put it better myself. It's worth repeating:<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Maybe we are tangled up in old categories such as "US interests" or "Israeli interests". Not sure there are national interests any more judging by the character of the global plutocracy. If the ruling elite power structure is transglobal, with loyalty to supra-national gods, then you will find all kinds of traitors to the old categories turning up in every old-fashioned nation thinking it still has national interests. American-based WASP operatives bending the ears of Israelis in Isreal, Israeli-based Jewish operatives bending the ears of Americans in the USA. Those above are borderless and it seems they are scrambling to build a working consensus (not on goals but means) amongst like-minded players at that level of power. Lots of arabs, jews and albanians up there, but it's mostly anglo-american plutocrats and european oligarchy. However, all fascists are welcome. <br><br>The left should identify with and be primarily concerned with all those struggling from below regardless of race religion or ethnicity AND beware / be aware of neo-nazi misdirection coming from intelligence quarters (inter alia). There should be no dilemma there, though I do realize your points, DE, as I've said and will support efforts to root out such dangerous misdirection. But we must, as leftists, also root out instances where Zionist policy is responsible for the murder and abuse of regular people. I just don't see a dilemma there. If we are consistently anti-fascist and continually informed, we should be able follow a line of analysis that avoids race-baiting and keeps an eye on the real power structure. Though, yes, I do see the danger wherein leftists get confused about the real power structure especially now, in the age of mass internet conspiracizing.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Paul Craig Roberts: Bush will Nuke Iran

Postby Dreams End » Sun Oct 01, 2006 12:49 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Now, this must be counterbalanced with the possibility that he is being deliberately dishonest, in order to promote a secret agenda.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>No, the reason I'm concerned is that his agenda is NOT secret. His immigrant bashing, feminist bashing, racist are out in the open and some of it (though maybe not the worst of it) were published in the pages of Counterpunch. <br><br>And you can choose not to believe anything about the red-brown alliance movement...but that has no bearing on whether or not it is true. <br><br>From the French New Right, to the steppes of Russia and, indeed, all Eurasia, to the RCP and its alliance to RCWP, it is an objective fact that it is happening. Exactly how significant it is is another question and, if I were arguing your side, would be the point I'd argue about. To argue that it is fantasy is simply to ignore reality. One bit of analysis I read suggested that as far as Russia goes, is pretty much now a common worldview that isn't even really questioned much. In addition, it is suggested that certain elements of Russian society, including KGB, studied movements in the US, including that of Larouche, with maybe a plan of manipulating them and instead ended up adopting the ideology (or methodology?). <br><br><br><br>I also have another layer of assumptions that I haven't even gotten into yet via the blog and that is that a certain degree of Nazi culture has stayed rather in tact in the US via Project Paperclip...particularly within elements of the intelligence community. Dave Emory has it that it's a complete underground movement...the Reich still survives. I don't think I'll go that far. However, I haven't gotten into any of that yet. We also understand that some of our most powerful corporations were pro-fascist, that there was an aborted fascist coup attempt against Roosevelt, etc. Guess what, those corporations didn't go away. They are called the ruling class, Alice. Maybe you've heard the term. <br><br>But no, Alice, Roberts' agenda is not at all hidden. It's out there for anyone to see. And you are a perfect example of why I'm worried about it, since it doesn't seem to concern you much at all. And no, my perspective is not easy to find on the internet...I know this because I keep looking for it. Dave McGowan gets it...he sort of laughed at me for not getting a couple years ago when we first started corresponding. He knew a little about my political background and understood almost all of it to have been spending time spinning my wheels in the 'fake left'. <br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Silence , Genius at work.

Postby slimmouse » Sun Oct 01, 2006 7:43 pm

<br> DE said,<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I also have another layer of assumptions that I haven't even gotten into yet via the blog and that is that a certain degree of Nazi culture has stayed rather in tact in the US via Project Paperclip...particularly within elements of the intelligence community<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END-->.<br><br> Genius at work here.<br><br> Where is youre best guess as to where these Nazis are residing ?<br><br> The white house or in a small corner of your mind ? <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Silence , Genius at work.

Postby Dreams End » Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:26 pm

If we stoop to the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" level of analysis, then ousting Bush = ridding our country of the fascists. <br><br>I'm suggesting that this is simplistic. And that just because there are forces out there condemning Bush does not mean that we'd want them in power either...and that, in fact they represent the wishes of the true power structure. <br><br>anyway, one possibility is that we just get a crop of "moderate" dems in office and all the left and the progressive wing of the dem party celebrate about how they've defeated the evil one.<br><br>So at least we'll agree to judge them by how quickly they pull out of Iraq, abolish the Patriot act, repudiate the "Presidential torture protection act", dismantle Homeland Security, free all political prisoners who are being held without charges or trial, etc.<br><br>I hope none of you is holding your breath.<br><br>On the other hand, they could be feeling a bit dramatic and decide that a coup, in the face of unquestionable proof that the next elections are rigged on a national scale, is the only way to go. <br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Silence , Genius at work.

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Sun Oct 01, 2006 11:23 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>So at least we'll agree to judge them by how quickly they pull out of Iraq, abolish the Patriot act, repudiate the "Presidential torture protection act", dismantle Homeland Security, free all political prisoners who are being held without charges or trial, etc.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Exactly. <br><br>Although there are lots of 'I wish things were better but I can't save us from history'-types who are accepting their limited script on the political stage. Like John McCain who I think knows better but is taking his bit part of the 'not so bad' GOP guy anyway.<br><br>Self-justification is the enemy. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: No secret?

Postby AlicetheCurious » Mon Oct 02, 2006 3:45 am

DE, you said:<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>His immigrant bashing, feminist bashing, racist are out in the open and some of it (though maybe not the worst of it) were published in the pages of Counterpunch.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <br><br>Other than than organization you mentioned earlier, I haven't seen any indication that Roberts is a racist, anti-feminist and immigrant-basher -- could you provide some links?<br><br>I disagree that he airs such views "in the open"; I've been reading his articles with great interest for years and found no evidence AT ALL in those articles of the attitudes you describe. In Counterpunch and elsewhere, his position with the Reagan administration was mentioned, but nowhere was there any clue that he is a bigot or feminist-hater. Which of his writings that "were published in the pages of Counterpunch" are you referring to?<br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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