What's the best way to defend freedom?

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What's the best way to defend freedom?

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Wed Oct 18, 2006 8:08 am

Personally I think its by acting like you are free.<br><br>Anyway this got me thinking. Well what passes for thinking in my brain.<br><br>Remeber that saying "itsd a free country".<br><br>Is it just me or does no one say that anymore.<br><br>I think its time we dragged that saying out of its early retirement and started putting it to work again.<br><br>TV makes people so dumb they might forget if they don't keep hearing it.<br><br>Next time you jump on a plane, wear an anti Bush T shirt. When the guard hassles you say "Well who cares. Its a free country."<br><br>That should shut them up (yeah right).<br><br>But if you need another comeback, if you get more hassle for it - then simply say "Well Osama said he'd beat us by destroying our freedoms, why are you doing his job for him?"<br><br>Or something similar.<br><br>Of course if you don't think its a free country anymore... well its kind of all over bar the shouting.<br><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Florida activist charged with felony wiretapping

Postby Gouda » Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:13 am

Surrealist Meret Oppenheim said, "Nobody gives you freedom, you have to take it." Or swipe it, or whatever may be the case. <br><br>Even then, complications do arise: <br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Florida activist, candidate charged with felony wiretapping</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Florida_activist_candidate_charged_with_felony_1017.html">www.rawstory.com/news/200..._1017.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Miriam Raftery<br>Published: Tuesday October 17, 2006<br><br>The State of Florida has filed felony wiretapping charges against election reform activist Charles Grapski <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>for audiotaping his efforts to obtain public records related to his investigation of alleged election fraud,</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> RAW STORY has learned. He faces arraignment Tuesday, October 17th.<br><br>"The State has held charges over my head since May 1st, six months," Grapski told RAW STORY. "I have not been allowed until now the right of subpoena power to do discovery in my own defense. Now the State is saying I must choose between two rights: the right to a speedy trial, and my right to a fair trial."<br><br>RAW STORY has previously reported on officials' attempts to suppress Grapski's investigation and that Grapski was later banned by a judge from campaigning in the City of Alachua.<br><br>Grapski, a Democrat, said he dropped out of his bid to win election to the House of Representatives due to the unresolved threat of legal challenges and the judicial ban, which made it impossible for him to campaign in his district. He endorsed Democrat Chuck Chestnut IV, who won the primary race.<br><br>"This is such a severe case of silencing and a violation of the First Amendment," said Carol Thomas, co-coordinator of Grapski's defense committee, along with Scott Doran. "He has been as effectively banned as any black person in South Africa during Apartheid. He is not able to contact any officials by snail mail, fax, telephone, e-mail, or even a third party person."<br><br>Grapski is charged with felony wiretapping for making an audiotape of his efforts to obtain documents at City Hall. Those documents related to a lawsuit alleging fraud in the canvassing of absentee ballots in the election of Commissioner James A. Lewis, who won by 18 absentee votes.<br><br>"This is not the first time that sitting Commissioners who are candidates for an election have won by absentee votes. This seems to be a chronic problem here and nobody takes it seriously," Thomas said. "Suddenly absentee ballots disappear. It's outrageous."<br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Grapski audiotaped City Manager Clovis Watson, who commented on the fact that he was being taped, consented, and kept talking, Thomas noted. Subsequently Watson, who also serves as Police Commissioner (an apparent violation of Florida law that prohibits officials from holding more than one public office at a time), ordered Grapski arrested.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br>"He didn't do anything a newspaper reporter doesn't do every day. It's absurd," Thomas said. <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>"While he was being arrested, the editor of a newspaper was in there audiotaping this." </strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->A third person, Green Party representative Michael Canney, was also present making audiotapes. <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Canney and Grapski have been threatened with additional charges, but the newspaper editor has not, Thomas said.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br>Representatives from the office of Florida Attorney General Charlie Crist were not available for comment.<br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>"This is why I did record the meeting," Grapski said. "When public officials lie, the only thing that proves wrongdoing is the very tape the state has had in its possession since this issue began."</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br>He added, "If I don't exercise my right to a speedy trial, they can hold this over me for several years. But if we demand speedy trial, we have a window of a week to act." The trial would then take place around Thanksgiving, he said, adding, "We are determined to get this over as quickly as possible."<br><br>The key obstacle is money. "We have to raise $40,000 this week in order for a speedy trial to occur," Thomas revealed. "We are trying to get together a nationwide defense fund.<br><br>The Charles Grapski Legal Defense fund may be reached c/o Carol Thomas at P.O. Box 190, Alachua, FL 32616-0190. <hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <br>Anyone willing to help out with this guy's case? Help Raw publicize his story, write to newspapers, TV, congress, send a little cash to his defense fund? <br><br>"No one has freedom until we are all free."<br>- Gouda <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Florida activist charged with felony wiretapping

Postby postrchild » Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:31 am

just keeping this up top....people need to read this...esp the post from Gouda about the guy in FL.....this could be any of us. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: What's the best way to defend freedom?

Postby MASONIC PLOT » Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:45 am

He took his vorpal sword in hand: <br><br> Long time the manxome foe he sought -- <br>So rested he by the Tumtum tree, <br><br> And stood awhile in thought <br><br> <br>And as in uffish thought he stood, <br><br> The Jabberwock, with eyes of flame, <br>Came whiffling through the tulgey wood, <br><br> And burbled as it came! <br><br> <br>One, two! One, two! and through and through <br><br> The vorpal blade went snicker-snack! <br>He left it dead, and with its head <br><br> He went galumphing back. <br><br> <br>"And hast thou slain the Jabberwock? <br><br> Come to my arms, my beamish boy! <br>O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!" <br><br> He chortled in his joy. <br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: What's the best way to defend freedom?

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Wed Oct 18, 2006 8:30 pm

Bump for grapski.<br><br>BTW Was hw audiotaping the conversation face to face or over a phoneline? <p></p><i></i>
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Re: What's the best way to defend freedom?

Postby medicis » Wed Oct 18, 2006 8:43 pm

Have groups in each community. Create these groups if necessary. We have one where I live.... currently mostly comparing notes on 9/11 and fascism in the US. But as the illicit government of the fascist George Bush et. al., attempt to rendition Americans, there must be a community response of individuals willing to- at least initially, peacefully resist the removal of any community member to the camps. Bear in mind that all will follow if all do not now resist. Don't imagine that you can survive. Only by being a willing slave can you survive. Is that what you want? For your children? It is time to put up or shut up. <p></p><i></i>
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We do need to act as a community

Postby NavnDansk » Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:00 pm

to defend our own.<br><br>Have you been following Larissa Alexandrovna's story about her relative Bella, a Ukranian woman in her 50s who was taken away under the RETURN TO SENDER program.<br><br>Bella was recovered from the new American gulags after much publicity by Larissa who said on Democratic Underground that she had not been aware of the numbers of people who are disappearing under the revolting bushco name RETURN TO SENDER gvt. disappearance program. <p></p><i></i>
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resistance

Postby blanc » Thu Oct 19, 2006 5:05 am

there's always a tipping point. <br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: We do need to act as a community

Postby Gouda » Thu Oct 19, 2006 5:19 am

Joe, the article is not clear about that. It mentions both "wiretapping" and "audiotaping." Grapski says he was recording a meeting, which to me suggests something face-to-face. Watson arresting him "subsequently" to the meeting is unclear - could be immediately, could be a week later. But there was another (Green party) activist and a newspaper editor present at the time of the arrest. Though the article does not say the other two were present at the actual meeting, it does kind of suggest they were all there for both the meeting and the arrest. Why would 2 other people show up for an arrest? Not exactly the clearest reporting from Raw Story. <br><br>Nevertheless, it looks like the state has no case and the charges should be thrown out. The other party (Watson) allegedly "consented" (though I suppose we can't firmly conclude such just from this report) and it does not appear to be wiretapping, exactly. Need more information. <br><br>The effect of this charade however can be to a) chill potential activists from emulating such citizen-like behavior - court fees, time, papers, indeterminacy...that stuff sucks; or b) piss-off and fire-up enough people to follow suit. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: We do need to act as a community

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Thu Oct 19, 2006 8:23 pm

Yeah its hard to tell but it seems like an audio recording of a face to face meeting, done with the concent of both parties.<br><br>Which means the wiretapping charge is probably a crock, cos it refers to intercepting electronic signals, well it does here in Aust. Just to make things as difficult as possible. here is nothing new in that tho, that sort of abuse and irritation are as old as the hills.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>b) piss-off and fire-up enough people to follow suit.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <br><br>This is the rub. they can't arrest everyone at once. Thats why people dissappear, cos it has to happen quickly or secretly or else there will be trouble for the state.<br><br>Having a strong local community with a loud voice is probably the best protection in that regard.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: We do need to act as a community

Postby Gouda » Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:10 am

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Having a strong local community with a loud voice is probably the best protection in that regard.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> Aye, aye. And one that is communications savvy. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: We do need to act as a community

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:11 am

Yeah communications savvy is probably a good thing.<br><br>BTW slightly ot,<br><br>I am pretty computer illiterate, especially compared to what I remember of 'hackers" in the 80s and 90s.<br><br>far from the nerdy stereotype those people could build electronic stuff, break into networks from phone lines and the like...<br><br>Its incredibly hard to find people like that these days, at least where I live. <p></p><i></i>
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